Roy Keane

CM10

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Keane is once again spot on with his analysis..and I love his passion, it’s clear why he was such a winner. You don’t bring in the best goal scorer in history to leave him sat on the bench against a top team like Chelsea. Keane knows a lot of our players don’t have the quality or temperament to compete at this level..which is result of appalling bad recruitment since SAF left…but Ronaldo isn’t one of them. He’s our top scorer and has a winner’s mentality and is fitter than anyone else on the pitch ..he needs to play!
He was talking a load of bollocks really. Keane himself lost sight of the point he was trying to make, he said the manager had the right to leave Ronaldo on the bench but should never leave him on the bench against Chelsea. He was talking in circles and getting angry for the sake of getting angry.

The decision to leave Ronaldo on the bench was fine, by the way. He's 36 years old, this is one of the busiest periods of the season and Ronaldo hasn't been firing against the big boys this season. A bit of context, we've been getting battered by City, Liverpool and even Watford in the last few weeks. We clearly don't have a good enough structure around Ronaldo to facilitate him in these big games yet, so throwing a tantrum about this after the game when we'd got a result was just bizzarre.
 

Greck

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They are arguing about different things that are similar. If you separate it -

'United's aim was to win the league. That's why Ronaldo came.' - Carrick.

'Everyone knew we wouldn't win the league and our real expectations were to get top 4 and win a cup. Maybe if the stars were aligned we would win it but it would be like doing a Leicester. Maybe following season it would be more likely if we improved dramatically and bought wisely in summer' This is what Keane was trying to say but failed miserably.

Everyone surely agrees with both statements. Sure we are United and we should always aim for the league but every man and his dog knew it was highly unlikely and realistically we are going for top 4 and a cup.

Still think he is wrong about Ronaldo though. If he needs dropping then he should be dropped. Look at City - No striker. Look at Liverpool - Firmino, look at Chelsea - Drop Lukaku. Look at PSG - fkd. The game has moved on. Not saying you cant accommodate Ronaldo but just use him in the right games.
I think the aim was any trophy and a credible title challenge. After finishing 2nd no one had an appetite for top 4 as a target. Minimum acceptable target was at the very least to close the gap on the winners. Besides you don't bring in old players like Ronaldo expecting to win in 2 years when they're older and even more physically declined. Carrick was spot on if he said that and it's admirable he isn't trying to dodge expectations like Ole was so fond of. They didn't meet expectations and should be able to raise their hands and own up to the fact.
 

devilish

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I wonder what Keane would have said if Bruno doesn't press and acts like a 5 year old because the manager decides to bring him in as a substitute. The reality is that Ronaldo is 37 years old and while he's still in top shape he will need to be rested. He can't act like that whenever such a thing happens.
 

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He was talking a load of bollocks really. Keane himself lost sight of the point he was trying to make, he said the manager had the right to leave Ronaldo on the bench but should never leave him on the bench against Chelsea. He was talking in circles and getting angry for the sake of getting angry.

The decision to leave Ronaldo on the bench was fine, by the way. He's 36 years old, this is one of the busiest periods of the season and Ronaldo hasn't been firing against the big boys this season. A bit of context, we've been getting battered by City, Liverpool and even Watford in the last few weeks. We clearly don't have a good enough structure around Ronaldo to facilitate him in these big games yet, so throwing a tantrum about this after the game when we'd got a result was just bizzarre.
I really would like to see a quote, video or whatever really where Keane talks about football management from any perspective other than put your best 11 on the pitch and make sure to run and tackle, and if things are not going well, kick someone to show some character. Even if he has a point, is that really the only dimension and only way of thinking this man understands? A supreme athlete and one of the most competitive characters I have ever seen- But also a bitter old man whining about the good old times because he is incapable of adapting and expanding his horizon. Club owners and agents are not stupid, the last time he was contacted about a job was from Kazakhstan. There is a reason for that.
 

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I really would like to see a quote, video or whatever really where Keane talks about football management from any perspective other than put your best 11 on the pitch and make sure to run and tackle, and if things are not going well, kick someone to show some character. Even if he has a point, is that really the only dimension and only way of thinking this man understands? A supreme athlete and one of the most competitive characters I have ever seen- But also a bitter old man whining about the good old times because he is incapable of adapting and expanding his horizon. Club owners and agents are not stupid, the last time he was contacted about a job was from Kazakhstan. There is a reason for that.
BS. Who says he wants to manage anyone? He can talk as much bollocks as he likes in my view.I usually switch off once the game is over.
But it will be a cold day in hell before I side with a scrote like Carra over any ex United player let alone Keane.
 

Red00012

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Someone tell Keane we were 1-0 up when Ronaldo came up and also we weren’t beaten 5-0 with Ronaldo sitting on the bench . It’s as if sky told him to shake things up to click a few clicks online
 

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BS. Who says he wants to manage anyone? He can talk as much bollocks as he likes in my view.I usually switch off once the game is over.
But it will be a cold day in hell before I side with a scrote like Carra over any ex United player let alone Keane.
He does. He was whining to Gary Neville about how he is not getting a look in. Neville suggested he should probably network to which Keane made an admittedly hilarious remark about Instagram. You should watch it, it's not just fun, it would also stop you from calling things BS before you know what you are talking about.
 

justboy68

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The Ronaldo argument was a nonsense but I was pleasantly surprised at him calling out the nepotism at the club. Shame it didn't come earlier when it could have really helped get some eyes on it and put some pressure on. Now with Rangnick it should hopefully be less of an issue.
 

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He does. He was whining to Gary Neville about how he is not getting a look in. Neville suggested he should probably network to which Keane made an admittedly hilarious remark about Instagram. You should watch it, it's not just fun, it would also stop you from calling things BS before you know what you are talking about.
I know what I’m talking about alright. Probably the greatest player I have seen play for United and I am supporting the club since 68.
I couldn’t care less what he says on Sky or any other channel.
Whining ? Seems to me all the whining is done on this forum.
 

The Brown Bull

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Someone tell Keane we were 1-0 up when Ronaldo came up and also we weren’t beaten 5-0 with Ronaldo sitting on the bench . It’s as if sky told him to shake things up to click a few clicks online
We were 1 nil up but could easily have been 2 or 3 down. But for Ronaldo we would be out of the CL. Fact.
 

The Brown Bull

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My point was about Keane talking nonsense rather than having a dig at Ronaldo
Keane can talk all the nonsense he likes ffs.It’s TV, it’s Sky.
Tonight Carra tweeted “ no leagues for me but Sky like my opinions”.
Tragic.Talk about lack of self awareness!
 

Red00012

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Keane can talk all the nonsense he likes ffs.It’s TV, it’s Sky.
Tonight Carra tweeted “ no leagues for me but Sky like my opinions”.
Tragic.Talk about lack of self awareness!
I think that was a dig at what Rio said earlier
 

Marcelinho87

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What did Rio say ?
Carragher has no right to talk about winning leagues, he hasn't done it so doesn't know what it takes, when he starts talking about winning leagues I mute him.

Or something like that.
 

Salt Bailly

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He does. He was whining to Gary Neville about how he is not getting a look in. Neville suggested he should probably network to which Keane made an admittedly hilarious remark about Instagram. You should watch it, it's not just fun, it would also stop you from calling things BS before you know what you are talking about.
The idea of Roy Keane networking at a convention of unemployed football managers with a little name tag on has brought me great joy.
 

Murray3007

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got to say I am with Keane on this, Ronaldo would have had to have his best ever season for us to win the title this year, Thought there was more chance of winning the CL to be honest, Would play every game for me as well as long as hes fit, stats don't really back up that he never presses either, add in under Ole we barely pressed anyway as a team. in the summer we needed a goalscorer and we got one of the best about, Cavani was never going to score enough goals for us, Greenwood would have been our only hope of a forward getting us 20 odd goals. squad is again at a cross roads despite spending a fortune its still littered with average players and ones who really shouldn't be here. Sancho now starting to show a bit of what he can do and expect him to improve massively under Rangnick, Varane just seems another disaster, had one good game and been average the few other's he has actually played and been injured the rest, which is really a surprise no one when you look at his record.
 

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I know what I’m talking about alright. Probably the greatest player I have seen play for United and I am supporting the club since 68.
I couldn’t care less what he says on Sky or any other channel.
Whining ? Seems to me all the whining is done on this forum.
So you've been shown wrong in your comments about Keane as a pundit, you even admitted to not watching his punditry, but you know what you're talking about @Theonas (who did express his respect for Keane as a player) is the one who's wrong here. Alright then.
 

red4ever 79

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He was talking a load of bollocks really. Keane himself lost sight of the point he was trying to make, he said the manager had the right to leave Ronaldo on the bench but should never leave him on the bench against Chelsea. He was talking in circles and getting angry for the sake of getting angry.

The decision to leave Ronaldo on the bench was fine, by the way. He's 36 years old, this is one of the busiest periods of the season and Ronaldo hasn't been firing against the big boys this season. A bit of context, we've been getting battered by City, Liverpool and even Watford in the last few weeks. We clearly don't have a good enough structure around Ronaldo to facilitate him in these big games yet, so throwing a tantrum about this after the game when we'd got a result was just bizzarre.
We havent won any of the games that Ronaldo has started on the bench
 

Green_Red

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The idea of Roy Keane networking at a convention of unemployed football managers with a little name tag on has brought me great joy.
It would make a hilarious comedy skit. One of those football impersonators should do it. Comedy gold that.
 

KingCavani

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We were also winning both games before he entered the pitch
And were playing like shit. The Wolves and Southampton games were also shite.

Anyone thinking Ronaldo is the problem or even part of the problem are delusional and buying into a lazy narrative.
 

Josh 76

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And were playing like shit. The Wolves and Southampton games were also shite.

Anyone thinking Ronaldo is the problem or even part of the problem are delusional and buying into a lazy narrative.
We have played shit with and without Ronaldo.
 

CM10

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And were playing like shit. The Wolves and Southampton games were also shite.

Anyone thinking Ronaldo is the problem or even part of the problem are delusional and buying into a lazy narrative.
I didn't even say that but this idea that he has to play every game is clearly a falsehood
 

Marwood

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I didn't even say that but this idea that he has to play every game is clearly a falsehood
I think saying there's an argument he should start every game is a falsehood. Is anybody really saying that?

I can't imagine anyone thinks he should be playing all the time. I'm guessing everybody would want him rested against Young Boys for instance.

That was Keane's point. There are times to rest him. Chelsea aint one of them.
 

CM10

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I think saying there's an argument he should start every game is a falsehood. Is anybody really saying that?

I can't imagine anyone thinks he should be playing all the time. I'm guessing everybody would want him rested against Young Boys for instance.

That was Keane's point. There are times to rest him. Chelsea aint one of them.
Well a dead rubber Champions League game isn't much of a concession at all. Prior to Young Boys we will have played 5 games in 15 days, prior to that Ronaldo played multiple games in the international break. It's just not feasible to play all of them, and he's far more likely to make an impact against the lesser teams.

As I outlined earlier, it's really not a big deal, especially when we've been getting pasted every week. We don't have enough of a structure around Ronaldo to facilitate him in these big games yet. Even if we did there shouldn't be the circus around it Keane was creating. It's a team game, it isn't all about Ronaldo.

There were similar levels of outrage when he was on the bench vs Everton too. This isn't just a Chelsea thing.
 

Marwood

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Well a dead rubber Champions League game isn't much of a concession at all. Prior to Young Boys we will have played 5 games in 15 days, prior to that Ronaldo played multiple games in the international break. It's just not feasible to play all of them, and he's far more likely to make an impact against the lesser teams.

As I outlined earlier, it's really not a big deal, especially when we've been getting pasted every week. We don't have enough of a structure around Ronaldo to facilitate him in these big games yet. Even if we did there shouldn't be the circus around it Keane was creating. It's a team game, it isn't all about Ronaldo.

There were similar levels of outrage when he was on the bench vs Everton too. This isn't just a Chelsea thing.
Everybody's more likely to make an impact against the lower teams.

But in anycase nobody is arguing he should play every game. I haven't seen anyone saying that anyway. Keane definitely wasn't.
 

Jericho

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We were also winning both games before he entered the pitch
Exactly. And that's not to say it's Ronaldo's fault we didn't win those games, but that we're not always better off just because he's playing. We don't need him near as much as people think. We scored plenty before he got here. Now we have him and he's scored a few and the goals have dried up for some of the others.
 

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And were playing like shit. The Wolves and Southampton games were also shite.

Anyone thinking Ronaldo is the problem or even part of the problem are delusional and buying into a lazy narrative.
And yet somehow we were worse when he came on. I'm not saying that's his fault necessarily, but the fact that we can be winning games without him, and be playing shite and losing points with him on the pitch suggests that the real lazy narrative is that at 36 we have to start him in every game all the time because "he might nick a goal".
 

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And yet somehow we were worse when he came on. I'm not saying that's his fault necessarily, but the fact that we can be winning games without him, and be playing shite and losing points with him on the pitch suggests that the real lazy narrative is that at 36 we have to start him in every game all the time because "he might nick a goal".
The "fact"? So you pull a fact out of your behind like that and label the rest lazy narrative?

We're not winning games without Ronaldo that's ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything about the game can see how disjointed we are when he's not in the team -- worse infact.

This is the same crap we heard at Juve . Ronaldo held them back and now they're what position again?
 

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The "fact"? So you pull a fact out of your behind like that and label the rest lazy narrative?

We're not winning games without Ronaldo that's ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything about the game can see how disjointed we are when he's not in the team -- worse infact.

This is the same crap we heard at Juve . Ronaldo held them back and now they're what position again?
You’ll need to explain what fact you take issue with there rather than just label anything you don’t like as shite talk.

We were winning the two games that Ronaldo didn’t start, Ronaldo came on we ended up not winning those games. Yet people say the issue there was that Ronaldo didn’t start those games. Sorry lad but if you’re in agreement with that then your the one talking out his backside.

Ronaldo isn’t necessarily a problem, but always starting him isn’t always the solution either. And right now we’re no better off than we were this time last year without him.
 

shamans

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You’ll need to explain what fact you take issue with there rather than just label anything you don’t like as shite talk.

We were winning the two games that Ronaldo didn’t start, Ronaldo came on we ended up not winning those games. Yet people say the issue there was that Ronaldo didn’t start those games. Sorry lad but if you’re in agreement with that then your the one talking out his backside.

Ronaldo isn’t necessarily a problem, but always starting him isn’t always the solution either. And right now we’re no better off than we were this time last year without him.
You're talking us winning as facts. It is not factual we would have won. It is factual we were ahead but to use that to prove anything is twisting/framing for bad faith arguments. We played like shite against Everton and improved with Ronaldo and Pogba.

Chelsea could have easily had more goals as well they were dominating in every statistic well before Ronaldo came on.

Lazy analysis at its finest but go on. What about all the "factual" winners Ronaldo has actually scored? Or is it then Ronaldo bailing us out of a problem he created ? :lol:
 

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You're talking us winning as facts. It is not factual we would have won. It is factual we were ahead but to use that to prove anything is twisting/framing for bad faith arguments. We played like shite against Everton and improved with Ronaldo and Pogba.

Chelsea could have easily had more goals as well they were dominating in every statistic well before Ronaldo came on.

Lazy analysis at its finest but go on. What about all the "factual" winners Ronaldo has actually scored? Or is it then Ronaldo bailing us out of a problem he created ? :lol:
No I’m not. You’ve got it all backwards lad. I’m not saying we would have won those games. I’m saying those two games in particular are terrible examples to suggest, as many have done, that we needed him…given the simple fact that we were winning without him and went on to lose so worse with him. And I don’t think he improved us when he came on, while obviously you do so we’ll just have to disagree there.

I don’t know where you stand but some people seem to think we need to start him in every game. I don’t. As I said before, we’re no better off than we were this time last year for having him here. His numbers are ok, while other players are worse. And our results and are at best as good as this time last year.
 

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No I’m not. You’ve got it all backwards lad. I’m not saying we would have won those games. I’m saying those two games in particular are terrible examples to suggest, as many have done, that we needed him…given the simple fact that we were winning without him and went on to lose so worse with him. And I don’t think he improved us when he came on, while obviously you do so we’ll just have to disagree there.

I don’t know where you stand but some people seem to think we need to start him in every game. I don’t. As I said before, we’re no better off than we were this time last year for having him here. His numbers are ok, while other players are worse. And our results and are at best as good as this time last year.
It's not like there's a different Ronaldo on wednesdays. He's proven there that he can be the difference. Ronaldo is not an influential midfielder that comes on and starts creating choices but he is someone who can make something out of nothing or get a goal when stuff isn't working for us at all.

The games he came on was the right idea, but it didn't happen. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have come on. No he doesn't need to start every game but yes to every game like Chelsea or Everton. Rest him for other teams.
 

lsd

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You’ll need to explain what fact you take issue with there rather than just label anything you don’t like as shite talk.

We were winning the two games that Ronaldo didn’t start, Ronaldo came on we ended up not winning those games. Yet people say the issue there was that Ronaldo didn’t start those games. Sorry lad but if you’re in agreement with that then your the one talking out his backside.

Ronaldo isn’t necessarily a problem, but always starting him isn’t always the solution either. And right now we’re no better off than we were this time last year without him.

Ronaldo is not the problem and the reason we are worse off now than last season is mainly down to Bruno playing terrible pretty much all season.

I have even see people trying to blame Ronaldo for that too which is nonsense, Bruno just hasn't performed to his standards and it has cost us