Roy Keane's visit to Carrington

Sayros

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
6,006
Supports
Paris Saint-Germain
Well, you need them to be motivated to run over the opposition and make them feel it will be useless to delay the inevitable, which are the victory for us. This is the state of mind we need those players to be in, continuously, 24/7. If that's the objective, a pep talk is not overrated. It's the small difference between a winning team and a losing team, at equal quality.
I just think the source of the talk matters a lot (not to mention the audience who are mostly grown men at this point), if this was someone who wasn't a pundit which, rightfully or not, has trashed this team, I believe it would have a bit more resonance. Players aren't deaf, they know more or less everything said about them by pundits and journalists, and Keane is not just a legend of the club but a pundit now. Also, more on your point of running over the opposition, I think OGS is managing that in recent times, some are downplaying it but I give a lot of credit to OGS with United running more than City in this last game and getting a deserved win. As far as the approach of this team against the big teams, you can't be anything but happy as they've punched above their weight. Problem, of course, is how they've managed against the smaller teams.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,301
When we were a winning machine, SAF always invited Sir Bobby Charlton to talk about our history and Busby Babes, to make players understand what they are representing. It wasn't living in the past, it was to let players know the history of the club from the legend himself who saw everything in this club. It was seen as positive as we were a winning machine, now that we are struggling we are just living in the past.

There is nothing wrong in inviting ex players to talk to current squad, it's not as if he took training sessions, it was just to give them some motivational speech or the standards, none better than the Keane who was praised by almost every ManUtd player who played under him, saying he was the one who set standards both in training and on the pitch.
And I doubt he was slating those players in previous weeks prior to giving them a talk. Imagine watching Keane shit on you every week on television then later comes in for a pep talk or motivational speech, I doubt most would be enthusiastic listening to the guy.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,514
And I doubt he was slating those players in previous weeks prior to giving them a talk. Imagine watching Keane shit on you every week on television then later comes in for a pep talk or motivational speech, I doubt most would be enthusiastic listening to the guy.
Then it's their problem. I have no doubt that most of the players would have been thrilled to meet a Legend like Roy Keane.

Many of the players we have would have heard so much about the player Keane was and our most successful captain, so I would assume they would be more than thrilled to meet him in person.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,514
The cult following this guy has is ridiculous. He has a toxic attitude and he lives moaning. Week in week out he moan about our players and slag them off he can't stop stating how they should be sold, so why on earth would people think everyone would be enthusiastic and thrilled to have him give them speeches.

Keane is a born moaner. People love acting as if this guy is some flawless individual yet if any of our players were to publicly slate their teammates they'd be crucified. He can't stop being bitter over SAF for years and keep taking cheap shots at him yet people want to use this guy as an example of what true professional should aspire to.

None of the players owe him any respect. The guy can't even bring himself to fully respect a manager that helped make him the player he was, why do people think a bunch of players who have nothing to do with Keane should just unconditionally respect him especially in light of the fact that every single week he can't wait to slate them on television.
Bit rich coming from the guy who just worships Martial, a player who have achieved nothing at the club compared to greats like Keane.

Current or past? If you are talking about past players then you couldn't be more wrong.
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
6,106
Location
NYC
I just think the source of the talk matters a lot (not to mention the audience who are mostly grown men at this point), if this was someone who wasn't a pundit which, rightfully or not, has trashed this team, I believe it would have a bit more resonance. Players aren't deaf, they know more or less everything said about them by pundits and journalists, and Keane is not just a legend of the club but a pundit now. Also, more on your point of running over the opposition, I think OGS is managing that in recent times, some are downplaying it but I give a lot of credit to OGS with United running more than City in this last game and getting a deserved win. As far as the approach of this team against the big teams, you can't be anything but happy as they've punched above their weight. Problem, of course, is how they've managed against the smaller teams.
I don't think I meant outrunning in the traditional way, as of just running. But more mentally, physically... when they try something, you get them in the jugular and you score, to hurt them, they try again? Go score another, to hurt them even more. Basically make them question their own qualities and fear. That's not punching above their weight. Would you say the team we had in 2008 with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez who used to play direct was punching above their weight? Obviously, not.
 

DoomSlayer

New Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
4,875
Location
Bulgaria
Then it's their problem. I have no doubt that most of the players would have been thrilled to meet a Legend like Roy Keane.

Many of the players we have would have heard so much about the player Keane was and our most successful captain, so I would assume they would be more than thrilled to meet him in person.
This. If some players are having hissy fits over criticism from someone who is undeniably one of our most successful players ever and a true leader in every sense, they probably don't deserve to be in our squad.
 

WR10

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
5,644
Location
Dream
This better have been a two-way conversation. Keane takes Ferguson's hardball approach to an extreme where he ends up burning bridges. He is the poorly balanced version of Ferguson. That is not someone that will ever be successful in managing a team - see his record. He'd be successful at sitting next to you in the locker room lighting a fire under your ass, but ultimately needs a stabilizing figure above him (Ferguson) to get the best out of him in a team environment. As a result, you will have players that have 0 respect for him when he comes to the training ground to pretentiously talk to them when he's made a career out of bashing them on TV.

He shouldn't be acting shocked leaving Carrington. Respect is a two way street.
 

Sayros

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
6,006
Supports
Paris Saint-Germain
I don't think I meant outrunning in the traditional way, as of just running. But more mentally, physically... when they try something, you get them in the jugular and you score, to hurt them, they try again? Go score another, to hurt them even more. Basically make them question their own qualities and fear. That's not punching above their weight. Would you say the team we had in 2008 with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez who used to play direct was punching above their weight? Obviously, not.
Ah, I thought you were being more literal with running, given it has been a big issue in the past for this team as far as distance covered per game. As far as punching above their weight (in the sense of beating the teams they shouldn't, not overall record), I'm talking about the team this season, it's hard to deny they haven't been doing that; I wasn't talking about the 2008 team.
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
6,106
Location
NYC
Ah, I thought you were being more literal with running, given it has been a big issue in the past for this team as far as distance covered per game. As far as punching above their weight (in the sense of beating the teams they shouldn't, not overall record), I'm talking about the team this season, it's hard to deny they haven't been doing that; I wasn't talking about the 2008 team.
I hear you but I firmly believe we are creating a team that is about to become as successful as that 2008 team. We are focusing on hard work and introducing talent. I think it will click now. It better click, I cannot wait to see Ole show the lads what it means to keep winning.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,514
Btw has any other paper reported this other than Mirror and Sun?
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,334
Location
india
The cult following this guy has is ridiculous. He has a toxic attitude and he lives moaning. Week in week out he moan about our players and slag them off he can't stop stating how they should be sold, so why on earth would people think everyone would be enthusiastic and thrilled to have him give them speeches.

Keane is a born moaner. People love acting as if this guy is some flawless individual yet if any of our players were to publicly slate their teammates they'd be crucified. He can't stop being bitter over SAF for years and keep taking cheap shots at him yet people want to use this guy as an example of what true professional should aspire to.

None of the players owe him any respect. The guy can't even bring himself to fully respect a manager that helped make him the player he was, why do people think a bunch of players who have nothing to do with Keane should just unconditionally respect him especially in light of the fact that every single week he can't wait to slate them on television.
:lol:
 

Irwin99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
9,124
The cult following this guy has is ridiculous. He has a toxic attitude and he lives moaning. Week in week out he moan about our players and slag them off he can't stop stating how they should be sold, so why on earth would people think everyone would be enthusiastic and thrilled to have him give them speeches.

Keane is a born moaner. People love acting as if this guy is some flawless individual yet if any of our players were to publicly slate their teammates they'd be crucified. He can't stop being bitter over SAF for years and keep taking cheap shots at him yet people want to use this guy as an example of what true professional should aspire to.

None of the players owe him any respect. The guy can't even bring himself to fully respect a manager that helped make him the player he was, why do people think a bunch of players who have nothing to do with Keane should just unconditionally respect him especially in light of the fact that every single week he can't wait to slate them on television.
Didn’t he just praise the entire team after the City game saying it was a proper United performance?
 

KennyBurner

New Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
4,673
Location
ATL
This. If some players are having hissy fits over criticism from someone who is undeniably one of our most successful players ever and a true leader in every sense, they probably don't deserve to be in our squad.
Dont mistake criticism for disrespect. Not too long ago keane was speaking on the rumored transfer of eriksen and made some distasteful comments about Fred along the lines "he wont make manchester united better....having said that man United bought Fred". Dont remember Freds form at the time but I doubt that is how you criticize a player.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,301
Didn’t he just praise the entire team after the City game saying it was a proper United performance?
How often have you watched Keane talk about United? Even pre match he was moaning about them.

If you're a united player it means you've watched Keane moan about you on TV than otherwise and I won't blame anyone of those players if they weren't interested in what Keane had to say.
 
Last edited:

SmallCaine

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
831
You definitely weren't around when Keane was playing.
He was a leader on the pitch long before he got the armband and went on then to become the best and most successful captain we've ever had.

His mutv interview and some comments he makes on TV, particularly when he's clearly trying to live up to his caricature, can be annoying but as a captain for all those years he never let us down
His on field ability isn't in question here, he was one of the best midfielders in the world in his prime.

But on field and off field are 2 different places. It's easy to lead when things are going well, when we were in a jam, someone always stepped up, keane was that someone many times. I am not in anyway questioning his ability or work ethic or selflessness on field.

But it takes different type of leadership when you know the team isn't as good and might not win as earlier or are very different mentality wise than what you are used to, it's not all about putting fear of god into your teammates, when keane faced a similar situation he just lashed out at players via the media, that for me isn't leadership.

But the bigger problem with having keane do a motivation speech as I stated in my post at the end is the relationship he has with players. The whole point of a motivational speech or pep talk is for player to fully believe in what the person delivering the speech is saying. That's never going to happen with keane, it would be difficult for me to believe a guy telling me that I am capable of something great when I see the same guy every week on tv criticizing me and calling me rubbish and wanting me to be gotten rid of. Which version of the speaker are they suppose to believe?
 

Number32

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
920
I think these youngsters deserve it. They are all millenial kids who has problem with attitude in general. When I watched they played this season, the disrespect to an inferior opponent was very annoying.
Someone has to tell them to stop smiling when you missed a sitter, stop toying the opponent in your own half, lets focus on football, fully concentrate in the last 10 minutes, then you can win the game eventhough its an ugly win.

Inviting Roy Keane was spot on. Honestly he would be a great coach to these young talents. Don't you remember Sir Alex had to cancel his gala dinner just to stop a private party of Ryan Giggs in Lee Sharpe's house and the media was furious with a tagline "let the kid alone". Decades later we undestand why he had to be rude to protect his precious talent.
 

Strelok

New Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
5,279
Keane is a born moaner. People love acting as if this guy is some flawless individual yet if any of our players were to publicly slate their teammates they'd be crucified. He can't stop being bitter over SAF for years and keep taking cheap shots at him yet people want to use this guy as an example of what true professional should aspire to.
As a neutral I must say if we want to give a speech of how to be a nice person then Keane is definitely not the type. However if the lesson is about being a true professional and giving your everything on the pitch then he's perfect imho.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveJ

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,514
As a neutral I must say if we want to give a speech of how to be a nice person then Keane is definitely not the type. However if the lesson is about being a true professional and giving your everything on the pitch then he's perfect imho.
Didn't know that. Which club do you support?
 

Judge Red

Don't Call Me Douglas
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
5,993
However you look at it, it’s a positive that Ole thought we’re at the stage now where there’d be any point in bringing in Keane to speak directly to the squad.

And of course Pogba wasn’t there. Ole knows we’ll never be at the stage where anyone could ever motivate Pogba to give a feck about this club.
 

Lj82

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
1,060
Location
Singapore
I dont either, but he's also a manager that's focus is on his own philosophy. Its good and bad, but he's not going to be one to instill a United culture because he's not part of it. He was a caretake, although admittedly, a good one.

Oh that I agree.
The onus is on the board to select the manager who has the philosophy that matches Utd though.
But that is a topic for another thread.
 

BigBebe

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
873
Location
Are you the ref?
Well whatever he said, it seems so have worked.

They did put in a proper Manchester United performance on Saturday.
 

Nou_Camp99

what would Souness do?
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
10,274
Who cares... he shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
What? He's one of the best captains and midfielders we've ever had. It will do these players some good to hear what it takes to play for this club. Keano never left anything in the dressing room. What a collosus he was.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
How often have you watched Keane talk about United? Even pretty match he was moaning about them.
What? He's one of the best captains and midfielders we've ever had. It will do these players some good to hear what it takes to play for this club. Keano never left anything in the dressing room. What a collosus he was.
Thats the state of this place nowadays... Guys who moan relentlessly think he shouldn't be there and players don't have anything to hear from him. From the guy who made United what it is. But but but it may hurt sensitive souls of some players..
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
28,576
Location
Croatia
When we were a winning machine, SAF always invited Sir Bobby Charlton to talk about our history and Busby Babes, to make players understand what they are representing. It wasn't living in the past, it was to let players know the history of the club from the legend himself who saw everything in this club. It was seen as positive as we were a winning machine, now that we are struggling we are just living in the past.

There is nothing wrong in inviting ex players to talk to current squad, it's not as if he took training sessions, it was just to give them some motivational speech or the standards, none better than the Keane who was praised by almost every ManUtd player who played under him, saying he was the one who set standards both in training and on the pitch.
I agree with you in general but now are different times. Players have different mentality and what was good in that era is not good in this era.
Tell me; how many players from our squad would survive in our squad from 90s? And it is not just our players. Look at Arsenal. Can you imagine any of their current players on training with Adams generation or Henry and Campbel generation?
In the past players were men, today they are snowflakes. :).
 

Number32

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
920
I Wouldnt want to listen to him either. Especially if I was one of the players he has been criticising in public for years
Criticism is a major boost to your career, in profesional world you won't improve if you stop listening. Unless you are the only perfect man that never exist in real life.
 

pacifictheme

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
7,665
Hey man, I'm just about to turn 25 so not that old yet but I always pay my dues to the history of our club. :devil: Keane is a monumental figure, I love listening to him, even if I don't always agree with what he is saying, the guy has an aura about him that is just non-existent in the modern game.

That moment where he was talking in the Sky Sports studio, along with Mourinho, Souness and Neville, about how the club should just go out and buy Kane, he just had them all shook when he said "what are you all staring at", Mourinho had no idea where to look at, he was so uncomfortable, which is a rare sight. :lol: You can just see how easily he can capture the room and make people feel a certain way - it must have been incredible to have such a character as the true leader and captain of the squad.
Yeah definitely. I'm only 35 but 90s football was era really, when i was obsessed. Knew evwry player from every team thanks to sticker books etc.

For me looking in keane is the best captain we have ever had. Absolutely loved him. You're right, when he talks people listen. Shame he couldn't translate it into management really.
 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
29,327
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
Those pep talks are massively overrated, couldn't care less if some players tuned him out, especially Keane of all people. I get he's a legend, but those talks may work better on younger, impressionable players, not professionals who got trashed by him as a pundit.
Don't we have loads of those in our squad?
 

Strelok

New Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
5,279
I agree with you in general but now are different times. Players have different mentality and what was good in that era is not good in this era.
Tell me; how many players from our squad would survive in our squad from 90s? And it is not just our players. Look at Arsenal. Can you imagine any of their current players on training with Adams generation or Henry and Campbel generation?
In the past players were men, today they are snowflakes. :).
I don't get you.

So instead of telling them to man up we should accept that and babysit them more?

And this squad, we now have more men than you think imho. We're on the course of installing back a culture of hard work, of giving your everything here instead of that pop star bollocks the last few years. Who are not up to that or not interested in that, should go.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,514
I agree with you in general but now are different times. Players have different mentality and what was good in that era is not good in this era.
Tell me; how many players from our squad would survive in our squad from 90s? And it is not just our players. Look at Arsenal. Can you imagine any of their current players on training with Adams generation or Henry and Campbel generation?
In the past players were men, today they are snowflakes. :).
Everyone, if those 90s players were playing in this era, they would be like today's generation players.

Also SAF did this in mid 2000s and late 2000s too, so not completely different era.

Like I said, everything is result driven. It was a genius move when we were winning, now it's living in the past.

Today's men are men too, just because they are not drunk to training or act like butchers on the field doesn't mean they are not men. If you go back to 90s, same thing was said about those young players and how players from 70s and 80s were men and these 90s players are just pussies compared to them. It's always like that.
 

The_Order

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
1,907
Keane: “the ball was there (I think) . I hit him hard. Take that you c*** and don’t ever stand over me sneering about fake injuries”

Scott dutifully writes down: Cripple the opponent, make hurtful comment, leave the field.
I come here for quality posts like these.
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
28,576
Location
Croatia
I don't get you.

So instead of telling them to man up we should accept that and babysit them more?

And this squad, we now have more men than you think imho. We're on the course of installing back a culture of hard work, of giving your everything here instead of that pop star bollocks the last few years. Who are not up to that or not interested in that, should go.
Everyone, if those 90s players were playing in this era, they would be like today's generation players.

Also SAF did this in mid 2000s and late 2000s too, so not completely different era.

Like I said, everything is result driven. It was a genius move when we were winning, now it's living in the past.

Today's men are men too, just because they are not drunk to training or act like butchers on the field doesn't mean they are not men. If you go back to 90s, same thing was said about those young players and how players from 70s and 80s were men and these 90s players are just pussies compared to them. It's always like that.
Ok, i admit that i am maybe wrong here ( and maybe i am the one who is living in the past). I just think that this generation of players are mentally soft. I am not saying that they are not training hard enough or something like that but i don't see that desire in them and connection with their clubs like it was in the past. It is more; "you pay me, i play for you." Strictly business.

Don't listen to me regarding this. I just miss those clashes with Arsenal and Liverpool when tensions among players and fans were on 1000%. Today it is just game as any other. Players come, play and go on instagram to promote their clothing line or something. Yeah, i am the one who is living in the past :)

And btw of topic; roonster, i hate your tag. Every time when i see it my blood boils. Ha ha
 
Last edited:

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
Thats the state of this place nowadays... Guys who moan relentlessly think he shouldn't be there and players don't have anything to hear from him. From the guy who made United what it is. But but but it may hurt sensitive souls of some players..
I wonder how many times Souness was brought in to speak to Gerrard. I mean it’s just romantic bull. They don’t need to hear from Roy Keane and they don’t need no old boys club crap.