Ruben Amorim | 2024-25

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romufc said:
I dont think anyone has said to buy a new 11.

Its about backing him in areas required.

We can have Pep, Klopp, SAF but when you have a player like Onana in goal, there is so much you can do.
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If we were playing brilliant football and scoring for fun, but dropping points because Onana was a disaster every game, then fair enough we could place all blame on him. But even ignoring Onana, everything else about our team has been shit too, and Amorim is responsible for at least some of it.

It's become a worrying trend on here to pass the buck and make out the manager isn't responsible for anything simply because he doesn't have a perfect set of players able to perfectly execute his plan. The same was happening with Ten Hag and the fabled lack of structure. Always someone else's fault
 
AndySmith1990 said:
If we were playing brilliant football and scoring for fun, but dropping points because Onana was a disaster every game, then fair enough we could place all blame on him. But even ignoring Onana, everything else about our team has been shit too, and Amorim is responsible for at least some of it.

It's become a worrying trend on here to pass the buck and make out the manager isn't responsible for anything simply because he doesn't have a perfect set of players able to perfectly execute his plan. The same was happening with Ten Hag and the fabled lack of structure. Always someone else's fault
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Ofcourse, Amorim has to take a lot of responsibility, he has done so. We all accept this cannot happen in the upcoming season, we have to start on fire otherwise there is going to be alot of pressure.

The goalkeeper makes such a big difference though, I cant believe we can't find a competent keeper.. our No1 is terribly and No2 is probably worse.

Its a bit of both, the manager needs players and the manager also needs to do better with the players we have now.

We have addressed the forward line, so its pressure on Amorim to deliver performances now. No excuses.
 
nickm said:
The squad is shit and would need an overhaul whoever managed us. We have to do a rebuild anyway. I don’t think you can judge Amorim properly until he has had a chance to shape the squad according to his vision, which is something we would give any manager. Any manager would expect to be backed in the market.
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That's not how football works, what if you bring the squad for his vision and it doesn't work? No other club simply tries to buy whole squads for each manager, as no one can afford to do such things and managers/coaches are supposed to be able to coach players. The key is signing quality, hard working and adaptable players and the coach himself also has to adapt.

There is no excuse for coming 15th in the league, this squad is not relegation fodder. You don't just let a manager take you to the depths based on their dreams and visions, they have to prove worthy of deserving time but getting results and showing some positive things in their set up and performances. If a coach can only succeed in perfect conditions, he is not the right coach because injuries and losses of form happen so being unable to scrape a good performance together as soon as you don't have your perfect set up of players will lead us nowhere. Amorim himself knows he needs to do better and makes nowhere near the level of excuses fans do, so hopefully he shows something when the season kicks off otherwise things are going to get really sour around the club.
 
romufc said:
Thats fine, you posting this so you think he is a top keeper.

Different opinions, I think he is pretty rubbish.
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He's crap. But you were arguing that you can't get anywhere with his level of goalkeeping, which is clearly not the case.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
If we were playing brilliant football and scoring for fun, but dropping points because Onana was a disaster every game, then fair enough we could place all blame on him. But even ignoring Onana, everything else about our team has been shit too, and Amorim is responsible for at least some of it.

It's become a worrying trend on here to pass the buck and make out the manager isn't responsible for anything simply because he doesn't have a perfect set of players able to perfectly execute his plan. The same was happening with Ten Hag and the fabled lack of structure. Always someone else's fault
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We keep on talking about player upgrades in isolation as though the improvement in one position has no effect on the other players in the team. This is clearly wrong.
  • Having a keeper who is strong, dominant and error-free gives the defence a much higher level of confidence allowing them to play more freely
  • Having 10s who are a real constant thread 1v1 forces the opponents defence back and will give behind them more time and space to work. This might give Ugarte/Casemiro more time to progress the ball (for example) and not look such a bad fit as a 6.
We need better more confident players, and we need them to know the system and their responsibilities inside out. This is the role of the management, the manager and the team.

Noone is saying that Ruben will consistently get a free pass, but we had/have a lot of problems in the changing room to fix - a lot of entitlement from certain players. If we can get the main four guys out, and get fresh players in, and it still looks like a pgs breakfast come November, it will be a struggle to keep confident with our manager. But it's way more that just team and tactics.
 
I do wonder how he must feel. Kept saying the management and him had a plan for the summer window. But coming back for pre season it looks like he’s still going to have the same shits in his squad with only one new addition.
 
nickm said:
The squad is shit and would need an overhaul whoever managed us. We have to do a rebuild anyway. I don’t think you can judge Amorim properly until he has had a chance to shape the squad according to his vision, which is something we would give any manager. Any manager would expect to be backed in the market.
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So the whole idea of us stopping doing that and ending up with "shit" squads is out of the window again? Shaping the squad to yet another manager who is unproven himself, what could possibly go wrong.
 
Freak said:
I do wonder how he must feel. Kept saying the management and him had a plan for the summer window. But coming back for pre season it looks like he’s still going to have the same shits in his squad with only one new addition.
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Expecting big moves after brief after brief of his skint we are might have been a bit naive. But yeah can't help but feel he's being let down
 
Freak said:
I do wonder how he must feel. Kept saying the management and him had a plan for the summer window. But coming back for pre season it looks like he’s still going to have the same shits in his squad with only one new addition.
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Yes, that plan included selling players, which is proving to be difficult as every summer.

Amorim had the chance to change that... so he can't really complain too much.

If he managed to get results or win the EL, we would have more funds to get him players...

Its not like he didn't know the deal if we didnt get any European football.
 
Rista said:
So the whole idea of us stopping doing that and ending up with "shit" squads is out of the window again? Shaping the squad to yet another manager who is unproven himself, what could possibly go wrong.
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Of course you sign players who suit the managers style of play, be pretty fecking stupid not to, thats's where you would end up with a "Shit" squad, as we have for the last 12 years.

Why would INEOS bring in Amorim if they are not going to back him with his vision, may as well have brought in someone else.

Maybe wait until the window is over before posting such reactionary posts, we are at the start of July, we have nearly 2 months remaining and not exactly a que of clubs trying to buy our players, so it will take time to see what will happen.
 
Rista said:
So the whole idea of us stopping doing that and ending up with "shit" squads is out of the window again? Shaping the squad to yet another manager who is unproven himself, what could possibly go wrong.
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So, what would you do this summer window? Not buy players? Buy players that doesn't suit the managers style?

Let me guess.. sack the manager?
 
Freak said:
I do wonder how he must feel. Kept saying the management and him had a plan for the summer window. But coming back for pre season it looks like he’s still going to have the same shits in his squad with only one new addition.
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This was always going to be the case. We don't have unlimited money to throw at building an entirely new squad and we have a lot of unwanted players on big salaries.

I was saying it during last season. He has to be able to extract more out of the group of players he inherited than he has so far. That should be his primary focus. Obviously bringing in new players helps, but a coach actually has to win some matches, demonstrate some progress and earn the time they're given. Amorim hasn't done that so far, and if nothing changes next season, he'll be rightfully sacked.
 
romufc said:
Thats fine, you posting this so you think he is a top keeper.

Different opinions, I think he is pretty rubbish.
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But he’s not the reason Amorim could only manage 7 wins in 27. As bad as him and Hojlund are they are the scapegoats as for why Amorim has been terrible. The season before we won the FA Cup and finished 7th with Onana so it’s definitely possible to finish higher than 16th with him in goal.
 
Ezkay said:
But he’s not the reason Amorim could only manage 7 wins in 27. As bad as him and Hojlund are they are the scapegoats as for why Amorim has been terrible. The season before we won the FA Cup and finished 7th with Onana so it’s definitely possible to finish higher than 16th with him in goal.
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Well that just shows me you didn't watch that season either. Onana was the reason we got knocked out the CL early.

WHilst Amorim needs to do more, two things can also be right. We need to improve on positions that consistently fail us and the manager needs to do alot better.
 
The academy not playing Amorim’s system: Wilcox doesn’t think losing all the time is good for young players.

But seriously, the whole discussion about 3 at the back is bollocks. It can be executed different ways. Another manager might come in and make it work great. Maybe Amorim gets the team on one page and we go on a rampage.

The formation is the least of our issues.
 
NLunited said:
The academy not playing Amorim’s system: Wilcox doesn’t think losing all the time is good for young players.

But seriously, the whole discussion about 3 at the back is bollocks. It can be executed different ways. Another manager might come in and make it work great. Maybe Amorim gets the team on one page and we go on a rampage.

The formation is the least of our issues.
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It's most certainly an issue until we get players in that can actually adapt to the formation, and that's if it's even effective in the PL. Before the summer the talk was that we should have a relatively new core set of players next season who are more likely to make this system work. If it doesn't pan out like that, continuing with this formation on the back of last season, with these same players sounds like a nightmare. If it's not getting results, it's simply not working. Either that or the manager is the problem as there's no way we're as bad as 15th.
 
Shark said:
It's most certainly an issue until we get players in that can actually adapt to the formation, and that's if it's even effective in the PL. Before the summer the talk was that we should have a relatively new core set of players next season who are more likely to make this system work. If it doesn't pan out like that, continuing with this formation on the back of last season, with these same players sounds like a nightmare. If it's not getting results, it's simply not working. Either that or the manager is the problem.
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Did 3-4-2-1 cause the below:

  • Hojlund not be in the box or constantly fighting CBs and unable to control the football.
  • Garnacho having 50 shots on goal without scoring.
  • Onana throwing the ball in the net.
  • Dalot over hitting his cross.
The state of this squad and it's unsuitability to modern football is the cause of sh1te recruitment, until we pay the penalty by getting rid of our overpaid deadwood which will take a couple of summers as nobody wants them, we will be unable to fully retool the squad to modern football.
 
MCDC said:
Did 3-4-2-1 cause the below:

  • Hojlund not be in the box or constantly fighting CBs and unable to control the football.
  • Garnacho having 50 shots on goal without scoring.
  • Onana throwing the ball in the net.
  • Dalot over hitting his cross.
The state of this squad and it's unsuitability to modern football is the cause of sh1te recruitment, until we pay the penalty by getting rid of our overpaid deadwood which will take a couple of summers as nobody wants them, we will be unable to fully retool the squad to modern football.
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No, but that's my point. What if the team is relatively unchanged come the start of the season vs Arsenal? Should he just chug along with what's clearly producing some of the worst results in our history, or attempt to start winning games of football with the resources he has.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
If we were playing brilliant football and scoring for fun, but dropping points because Onana was a disaster every game, then fair enough we could place all blame on him. But even ignoring Onana, everything else about our team has been shit too, and Amorim is responsible for at least some of it.

It's become a worrying trend on here to pass the buck and make out the manager isn't responsible for anything simply because he doesn't have a perfect set of players able to perfectly execute his plan. The same was happening with Ten Hag and the fabled lack of structure. Always someone else's fault
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So tied of these strawmen arguments. Nobody is saying that at all. Modern clubs need structures that enable good decisions to be taken - that is not passing the buck.

Of course Amorim is accountable. But you have to give people a fair crack before you judge them. He was hired to do a squad rebuild, so before we judge him, let's see what progress he can make with several better players.
 
Shark said:
No, but that's my point. What if the team is relatively unchanged come the start of the season vs Arsenal? Should he just chug along with what's clearly producing some of the worst results in our history, or attempt to start winning games of football with the resources he has.
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Then Amorim has to try and find a way to negate these problems, as we are now reaping the benefits of the Woodward & Murtough era of paying inflated fees for crap players.

We also have no cash as Woodward decided to payout the fees of Maguire 80m & Bruno 50m outright in one fees, thus dwindling our cash reserves to which we have next to nothing, we are PSR positive but cash strapped.

I am confident we will bring at least 2 in before the start of the season with maybe even 3 by the end of the window, level off fee and quality of Mbuemo is anyone's guess.
 
MCDC said:
Did 3-4-2-1 cause the below:

  • Hojlund not be in the box or constantly fighting CBs and unable to control the football.
  • Garnacho having 50 shots on goal without scoring.
  • Onana throwing the ball in the net.
  • Dalot over hitting his cross.
The state of this squad and it's unsuitability to modern football is the cause of sh1te recruitment, until we pay the penalty by getting rid of our overpaid deadwood which will take a couple of summers as nobody wants them, we will be unable to fully retool the squad to modern football.
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Our chance create was around 12th in the league. A bit of that is on Garnacho, a bit on Hojlund and a massive part on a system that clearly isn't working
 
MCDC said:
Did 3-4-2-1 cause the below:

  • Hojlund not be in the box or constantly fighting CBs and unable to control the football.
  • Garnacho having 50 shots on goal without scoring.
  • Onana throwing the ball in the net.
  • Dalot over hitting his cross.
The state of this squad and it's unsuitability to modern football is the cause of sh1te recruitment, until we pay the penalty by getting rid of our overpaid deadwood which will take a couple of summers as nobody wants them, we will be unable to fully retool the squad to modern football.
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Exactly. The problem is the squad, it is shit. It needs to be rebuilt. In order to rebuild it, it needs a clear structure and identity so you can sign the right players. We have manifestly failed in this for a decade, so let's not complain when we hire a manager who can help address that. Whether Amorim's structure is perfect or not is besides the point, structures can evolve as you get to understand your team - and it doesn't need to be perfect given where we are right now.
 
MCDC said:
Then Amorim has to try and find a way to negate these problems, as we are now reaping the benefits of the Woodward & Murtough era of paying inflated fees for crap players.

We also have no cash as Woodward decided to payout the fees of Maguire 80m & Bruno 50m outright in one fees, thus dwindling our cash reserves to which we have next to nothing, we are PSR positive but cash strapped.

I am confident we will bring at least 2 in before the start of the season with maybe even 3 by the end of the window, level off fee and quality of Mbuemo is anyone's guess.
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Precisely, that's all I was asking. Cause absolving a manager of all responsibilities just because he hasn't gotten a brand new team is exactly the road we went down with ETH also. Hopefully we can boost his chances of success with a few more signings but wouldn't at all he surprised if they feck it up.
 
I genuinely think we might be worse this year. Unless I see a new keeper/central defender/central midfielder and striker it's just gonna be the same oul rubbish. And I think Ruben was awful this year.

I genuinely hope I'm proved wrong, I do think Mbuemo signing could be big. But Onana can't play. If he starts, I've no hope.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
If the manager sets the rest of the team up correctly the goalkeeper wont be a problem, unfortunately after what we have seen over the last 7 months I have zero confidence in the managers ability to do that
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Yup the last 7 months have also shown that he'll play his favorites falls out of players too quickly
 
Make or break season for Amorim, that said, the club have to back him to the hilt one way or another and get him the players he needs, finishing 15th last season was completely unacceptable and an embarrassment, it simply cannot happen again.
 
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