Ruben Amorim | 2024-25

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Beachryan said:
If the summer continues like this, he'll be gone by the 3rd international break. No idea who we bring in.

It's hugely depressing tbh. I like him, I like the way he speaks, I like that he has a philosphy but no manager can magically create a good football team without good players, and our squad has been hugely depleted and no replacements look imminent. It's a disaster from the management team.
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The management team made a blunder when they kept him in the summer. It was quite obvious from last season that this guy would require a completely different squad than we have currently to get us anywhere, and that anywhere is also based on hope and his results in a much inferior league rather than anything substantial. This is not a Klopp or a Pep who had a stellar resume before coming to this league.

Right now our thinking seems to be that we only need to add some goals to the team and that will lead to a dramatic reversal in the catastrophic results that Amo produced last season. There is hardly any links to improve the goal keeper, defense or midfield of this team; the real backbone of a good football team. I don't know how our build up and transition defense improves just by adding Cunha, Mbeumbo and possibly a cheap striker.
 
Big Ron’s Coat said:
Same forward line his predecessor did far better with.
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I'm not even denying our forwards have been poor. But why choose a system that requires your forward and WBs to carry the brunt of the attack?

A better manager would've seen our poor forwards and introduced a system putting less emphasis on them, not more
 
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Insanity said:
I don't know how our build up and transition defense improves just by adding Cunha, Mbeumbo and possibly a cheap striker.
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By having faster more physical players who have a proven capability of taking defenders on 1v1 and working within a team structure not always going alone.

This forces opponents to take our attack seriously so their defenders need to be slightly closer to their keeper and their midfielders have to help to provide additional cover.

Both are also target men for long balls with a greater ability to fight for and shield the ball.
 
Paul778 said:
By having faster more physical players who have a proven capability of taking defenders on 1v1 and working within a team structure not always going alone.

This forces opponents to take our attack seriously so their defenders need to be slightly closer to their keeper and their midfielders have to help to provide additional cover.

Both are also target men for long balls with a greater ability to fight for and shield the ball.
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Mbeumo is like 1.70m
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Amorim showed almost nothing last 7 months but there were some reasonable excuses. Now he will have a full preseason and a couple of good signings. He needs to start to deliver points and performances.
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So far he’s got one signing, and has lost a few players already. With another 4 or so likely to leave.

I expect we’ll be better, but without more investment I don’t expect it to be anything ground breaking. Unless we add goals to this team then we’re limited on how we’ll do. And only an injury or two away from complete disaster.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
I think it is tough because he clearly prioritized the Europa run, which nearly paid off. The big problem was that we just did even worse than you'd minimally expect in the league while that was happening. So was it just a case of over adjusting and things will be better now since it's just the league focus? Who knows. Shits gonna get toxic as feck though if we struggle out of the gates
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I don't entirely subscribe to that "prioritising the Europa" theory.

There was no discernible difference in our performances and at what point did he start to prioritise the Europa? We're we pulling up trees before that point?

Teams can have one off, bad seasons. My worry is I couldn't see even a flicker of any improvement in our playing style
 
hellhunter said:
I'm not even denying our forwards have been poor. But why chose a system that requires your forward and WBs to carry the brunt of the attack?

A better manager would've seen our poor forwards and introduced a system putting less emphasis on them, not more
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Agreed. But those players were poor under his management. So it’s pure blame-shifting to point at the players when we were 8th and won a trophy the season prior despite a major injury crisis.
 
pocco said:
So far he’s got one signing, and has lost a few players already. With another 4 or so likely to leave.

I expect we’ll be better, but without more investment I don’t expect it to be anything ground breaking. Unless we add goals to this team then we’re limited on how we’ll do. And only an injury or two away from complete disaster.
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Three
 
Red Comet said:
Disagree on him showing nothing. Our play has generally improved and we no longer have ridiculous gaps in midfield. There were generally matches that we would have won if we performed on par with our xG and xGA, and many of it down to poor individual mistakes.

If anything, I would have said that for the whole of last season under ETH and earlier part of the season we were winning matches due to moments of individual brilliance, but under Amorim we largely ironed out the tactics and systems part but at the same time losing matches due to individual mistakes.

Now to transfers. No, we did NOT have a COUPLE of good signings, at least not yet. We only have Cunha; Leon is not someone I regard as a first team signing.

Fully agree that Amorim needs to start delivering on points and performance, and it's going to be a very very rough start giving our tough fixtures. It could very well spiral out of control like the way ETH's season did after being backed with so many signings.

It is also very anxiety-inducing to see how slow we are in the transfer market, especially after last season where it seemed like a breathe of fresh air. I wonder if this has to anything to do with Dan Ashworth.
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Are Xg and Xga more important than points?

I struggle to see improvement under Amorim. Yes. We played differently than under ETH but overall performance was the same, if not worse. The league table doesn't lie.

Football data can show what it wants but I watched every game and we were pretty much shit all the time.
 
Big Ron’s Coat said:
Agreed. But those players were poor under his management. So it’s pure blame-shifting to point at the players when we were 8th and won a trophy the season prior despite a major injury crisis.
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Its funny alot of fans like you think because we finished 8th, we were good or something?

Also... did you forget that the same manager was in charge at the start of last season and had us 12th? with 0 wins in Europa too?
 
romufc said:
Its funny alot of fans like you think because we finished 8th, we were good or something?

Also... did you forget that the same manager was in charge at the start of last season and had us 12th? with 0 wins in Europa too?
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Better than Amorim doesn't mean good, unfortunately
 
hellhunter said:
Because it shows that it was possible to do better than Amorim, fairly simple concept
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Not simple. If you watched 2 seasons ago when we finished 8th.. you will know that we were just as bad performance wise.

Whilst you are also ignoring that the last season the same manager started the season and was 12th and getting worse, 0 wins in the Europa league too.

The fact that you keep ignoring it shows the clear agenda.
 
Beachryan said:
If the summer continues like this, he'll be gone by the 3rd international break. No idea who we bring in.

It's hugely depressing tbh. I like him, I like the way he speaks, I like that he has a philosphy but no manager can magically create a good football team without good players, and our squad has been hugely depleted and no replacements look imminent. It's a disaster from the management team.
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I don't really understand these kind of takes - there's no accountability for the manager actually doing his job and improving the group of players he's inherited. That's his remit. We've shown little to no improvement on where we were with Ten Hag which felt like rock bottom at the time of his sacking (and for a long time before that, to be fair).

The squad needs improvement but Amorim is quite lucky still to be in the job after what he delivered last season, which was a stubborn tactical set up with poor results and few signs of progress. The club are backing him by ousting the players he doesn't want around. We need more than what we've signed so far, that much is obvious, but it was never going to be an easy summer to recruit 5 or 6 new first-team players and anyone who believes otherwise was kidding themselves.

If he doesn't last beyond whichever point next season, it won't be because of what we've done as a club this summer but because he isn't cut out to make it here. We shouldn't have been 15th place bad last season and his results in the cup competitions weren't good enough either. It's time people accepted he has to own some of that instead of making excuses for him.
 
romufc said:
Not simple. If you watched 2 seasons ago when we finished 8th.. you will know that we were just as bad performance wise.

Whilst you are also ignoring that the last season the same manager started the season and was 12th and getting worse, 0 wins in the Europa league too.

The fact that you keep ignoring it shows the clear agenda.
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Four points off top 4. And the EL campaign ended up worth so much for us!
 
romufc said:
Not simple. If you watched 2 seasons ago when we finished 8th.. you will know that we were just as bad performance wise.

Whilst you are also ignoring that the last season the same manager started the season and was 12th and getting worse, 0 wins in the Europa league too.

The fact that you keep ignoring it shows the clear agenda.
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A lot of our players still had good seasons because they were on platformed to do so, the structure was just way too open.
 
CM said:
I don't really understand these kind of takes - there's no accountability for the manager actually doing his job and improving the group of players he's inherited. That's his remit. We've shown little to no improvement on where we were with Ten Hag which felt like rock bottom at the time of his sacking (and for a long time before that, to be fair).

The squad needs improvement but Amorim is quite lucky still to be in the job after what he delivered last season, which was a stubborn tactical set up with poor results and few signs of progress. The club are backing him by ousting the players he doesn't want around. We need more than what we've signed so far, that much is obvious, but it was never going to be an easy summer to recruit 5 or 6 new first-team players and anyone who believes otherwise was kidding themselves.

If he doesn't last beyond whichever point next season, it won't be because of what we've done as a club this summer but because he isn't cut out to make it here. We shouldn't have been 15th place bad last season and his results in the cup competitions weren't good enough either. It's time people accepted he has to own some of that instead of making excuses for him.
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I agree we should have been top half, but only just that. It's easy to say a manager should get more out of the players he has but the fact is that football is played by those players. I don't care who your manager is, Onana is going to cost you points. It's clear that whatever Hojlund is, a striker he is not. Mainoo, Amad, Martinez, Mount, Shaw and Zirkzee all missed half the season.

Once again, we barely managed two games in a row with a decent 14-15 players available from the first team. Until that is fixed, we're going nowhere with any manager.
 
Beachryan said:
I agree we should have been top half, but only just that. It's easy to say a manager should get more out of the players he has but the fact is that football is played by those players. I don't care who your manager is, Onana is going to cost you points. It's clear that whatever Hojlund is, a striker he is not. Mainoo, Amad, Martinez, Mount, Shaw and Zirkzee all missed half the season.

Once again, we barely managed two games in a row with a decent 14-15 players available from the first team. Until that is fixed, we're going nowhere with any manager.
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The squad he has obviously isn't ideal but he most definitely should've got more out of it than he did. The system change didn't really serve to improve anybody and he persistently stuck with it when it was clear it was producing worse results. That is of course his prerogative, but it's also our prerogative to sack him if he doesn't achieve results by doing that.

The biggest issue for me is that all of our best players are also an awkward fit for his system. Is Amad a RWB or a 10? Is Bruno Fernandes a CM or a 10? Does Mainoo even get into the team anywhere in his system? If he doesn't know how to get the best out of our best/most promising players, what hope is there for the rest of them?

On the last point - I think that's also evidence of poor management. I won't pretend we have a great squad, but it certainly isn't a squad incapable of winning two Premier League matches in a row, which we failed to do all of last season. We lost to some pretty poor teams in the league without even laying a glove.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
First 10 league fixtures. Last season, we beat Fulham twice, won one lost one with Brentford, lost twice to BHA, lost twice to Forest. I'd expect 3W 3L in first 6. I think when the season gets under way, emotions & fatigue will take over. We can't possibly be as bad this season as we were last. Even so, the first 10 are going to be difficult.

L 17 Aug: Arsenal (H)
W 23 Aug: Fulham (A)
W 30 Aug: Burnley (H)
L 13 Sep: Manchester City (A)
L 20 Sep: Chelsea (H)
W 27 Sep: Brentford (A)
W 4 Oct: Sunderland (H)
L 18 Oct: Liverpool (A)
L 25 Oct: Brighton & Hove Albion (H)
L 1 Nov: Nottingham Forest (A)

That BHA game will be Amorim's 51st game in charge. Moyes was sacked at that point, with 27 wins. Even if Amorim wins all 9 of these, he will only have 25 wins (And he's not winning all 9). If he rocks up with a worse record than Moyes, does he stay? It's funny: at the time, I thought Moyes wasn't given very long, but I also feel Amorim has been given way too much time. When game 51 rolls around at the end of October, it will have felt like an eternity.

Next 10 league matches:
W 8 Nov: Tottenham Hotspur (A)
W 22 Nov: Everton (H)
D 29 Nov: Crystal Palace (A)
D 3 Dec: West Ham United (H)
W 6 Dec: Wolverhampton Wanderers (A)
D 13 Dec: Bournemouth (H)
L 20 Dec: Aston Villa (A)
L 27 Dec: Newcastle United (H)
W 30 Dec: Wolverhampton Wanderers (H)
L 3 Jan: Leeds United (A)

4W 3D 3L.
First 20 then: 8W 3D 9L

Last season Amorim managed 7 wins in 27, 14 defeats. 24% win rate.

Every manager post Fergie has done better than 50% win rate. It's just staggering when it's laid out like that.

Jose Mourinho – 58.3%
May 2016 – December 2018
Games: 144
Wins: 84
Draws: 32
Defeats: 28

Erik ten Hag – 56.3%
May 2022 – Nov 2024
Games: 128
Wins: 72
Draws: 20
Defeats: 36

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – 54.2%
December 2018 – November 2021
Games: 168
Wins: 91
Draws: 37
Defeats: 40

David Moyes – 52.9%
July 2013 – April 2014
Games: 51
Wins: 27
Draws: 9
Defeats: 15

Louis van Gaal – 52.4%
July 2014 – May 2016
Games: 103
Wins: 54
Draws: 25
Defeats: 24

Ruben Amorim - 38.1%
Games: 42
Wins: 16
Draws: 10
Defeats: 16
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SAF himself, in his first 5 seasons for us only got a 42% win rate (league 1)

His first 29 matches saw a win rate of only 38%! It went up in the following season, but the season after it collapsed, down to 34%, where it remained for the season after. Even worse than Amorim!

It's almost as if rebuilding a club and squad is really really hard.
 
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CM said:
I don't really understand these kind of takes - there's no accountability for the manager actually doing his job and improving the group of players he's inherited. That's his remit. We've shown little to no improvement on where we were with Ten Hag which felt like rock bottom at the time of his sacking (and for a long time before that, to be fair).

The squad needs improvement but Amorim is quite lucky still to be in the job after what he delivered last season, which was a stubborn tactical set up with poor results and few signs of progress. The club are backing him by ousting the players he doesn't want around. We need more than what we've signed so far, that much is obvious, but it was never going to be an easy summer to recruit 5 or 6 new first-team players and anyone who believes otherwise was kidding themselves.

If he doesn't last beyond whichever point next season, it won't be because of what we've done as a club this summer but because he isn't cut out to make it here. We shouldn't have been 15th place bad last season and his results in the cup competitions weren't good enough either. It's time people accepted he has to own some of that instead of making excuses for him.
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I don't think it's difficult to understand and the two takes can coincide. He has to improve us as a team but without a striker and if Onana keeps up his bad form there's a limit on how much we can improve. That limit is below united expectations so he'd probably be sacked.

I think the best we can hope for with this version of Hojlund and Onana is 8th-10th.
 
Smores said:
I don't think it's difficult to understand and the two takes can coincide. He has to improve us as a team but without a striker and if Onana keeps up his bad form there's a limit on how much we can improve. That limit is below united expectations so he'd probably be sacked.

I think the best we can hope for with this version of Hojlund and Onana is 8th-10th.
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Why is the best we can hope worse than a manager we sacked could do even though it is very likely we will have at least two new players who are better in attack than anything we've had in the past few years?
 
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
I don't entirely subscribe to that "prioritising the Europa" theory.

There was no discernible difference in our performances and at what point did he start to prioritise the Europa? We're we pulling up trees before that point?

Teams can have one off, bad seasons. My worry is I couldn't see even a flicker of any improvement in our playing style
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We didn't prioritise Europa until the final when we decided to let Bruno and Casemiro get some rest ahead of the final.

Funny enough, the final was our worst performance!

The idea we prioritised Europa is a way to excuse the pathetic league form but even with prioritising there is no excuse for what we served up in the league and then then final. Fans still paid good money and travelled to watch those games and deserved more. Not to mention that the final was a pathetic showing too and in line with our lame league form.
 
romufc said:
I get it.. you want him sacked and not to succeed at Manutd...
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He's been set up to fail. I would rather this cesspit of a club didn't ruin a young man's career. I want him to get out and flourish elsewhere.

Give us Big Sam or something garbage like that
 
romufc said:
Wanting him sacked and thinking he will be sacked is 2 different things... Wanting a manager sacked is wanting for him to fail
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Wanting a manager sacked means you think he isn’t up to the job at your club. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are constantly adding nonsensical strawman arguments to very clear and concise points.

Are you OK ?
 
Big Ron’s Coat said:
Wanting a manager sacked means you think he isn’t up to the job at your club. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are constantly adding nonsensical strawman arguments to very clear and concise points.

Are you OK ?
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So you know more than the ones in charge of the club? You see him in training everyday do you?

You clearly have the coaching badges to decide in 6 months if a manager is good or not is it?
 
Mind boggling Amorim’s win rate is still not seen for what it is: diabolically bad. ‘But: we should have finished 15th under Ten Hag’.

Finishing 8th with the injuries we had is reasonable/understandable, yet is seen as worse than Amorim’s 17th place form.

Amorim can’t win a game to save his job in the PL, he has a lot to prove. I have seen miracles where teams turned relegation form into title form, but it usually involves a change in tactics/strategy.

The way I see it we fired a manager who was making lemonade from lemons, ie racking up points despite numerous issues, winning trophies, and Amorim can’t.

I don’t think it will take long to find out where this is going. I find the confidence some have things will improve a lot odd; there's nothing really that suggests huge improvement is around the corner.

Weirder things have happened, so let’s wait and see.
 
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