Ruben Amorim | 2024-25

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Also, to compete in top 6 we don't need a full new squad.
A stable goalkeeper, much better striker than Hojlund (that's all strikers in PL really and half in Championship) and a consistently good winger to place Garnacho as impact sub (Cunha?) will make massive difference.

If we can secure top 6 with stable football next season, we can continue building on that.
 
The has been quite a shift recently in both the media and pundits highlighting how badly he is doing. His system is getting pulled apart as much as it does on the pitch.
Safe to say he will never achieve much in the PL. I don’t see 3 or 4 players making much of a difference when it’s so easy to play against.
The downward spiral of United will continue with him in charge. No way he turns this around because no one is buying this system.

3 or 4 players will definitely make a big difference but I don't know if his approach will lead to United reaching elite level. Just take Inzaghi as an example, he alters the team's organization deeply depending on the strength and weaknesses of his squad, yes he plays with a back three but that's the only constant everything above them has been different depending on who the key players are.
 
It’s interesting because I completely understand the outrage with results (it’s embarassing ), but at the same time I’m not sure what people expect to see that’s vastly different? Do people think 4231 counterball would have us vastly higher in the table? Does a change in formation suddenly mean we aren’t relying on Garnacho/Hojlund/Zirkzee for attacking production and sharp final third play? Will us playing a different system mean Ugarte and Casemiro will suddenly become anything close to a Newcastle level of athleticism, or technicians like Liverpools midfield?

I don’t think Amorim has done much of anything notable and I’m not sure if he is or isn’t the man to bring us back into contention. He says a lot of the right things and seems to have a pretty clear view of the situation (as opposed to the pure delusion of our last manager). But at a certain point there can't just be a shrugging of the shoulders when it's an endless stream of shit results. At the same time, I genuinely think the majority of our fanbase seems to not understand just how poor the squad is, specifically in midfield/attack. We are a bottom tier team in terms of athleticism, bottom tier in terms of technicality, and absolute rock bottom in terms of attacking sharpness/thrust. You can give any manager in the world those circumstances and the results/performances won't be much better than "meh" and thats best case scenario.
Meh at this point seems a dream. Me personally I'm just worried about him taking this form into next year. Like it or lump it next year he's going to have to use a lot of these players considering the penny pinching Ineos have been doing so funds will be limited and I wish this was hyperbole but we're on relegation form atm.
 
You’d think by now some fans would’ve learnt to not have blind confidence for a manager.

I’m not saying sack him but blindly trusting that a manager is the answer when there’s no evidence of it on the pitch is just foolish at this stage.

I think everyone can admit he probably does need more time and was dealt a bad hand. That is all true but in the things he can control such as our performance on the pitch, it has been dreadful if we’re being honest.

By now we should be seeing things in how we play that give us confidence going into next season. I see nothing other than, if we had better players they would look better and that’s about it. The defence doesn’t have a clue and look less comfortable in a 3 than they did with 2.

Passing out from the back is slightly better than under ETH but still far away from other good sides. He plays a flat back 3 and hardly seeks to create the extra man advantage in midfield. It’s a horrible use of having an extra defender if they don’t take up a faux midfield role at times. The defenders just pass between themselves creating zero danger.

What has really improved since he’s been here? Do we press any better maybe but it’s still pretty crap. Attack is turgid and Garnacho and Hojlund have actually regressed under him.

The worst thing is he’s so stubborn and set in his ways with his system that we’ll never know if the team could be better with a different setup under him. It’s such a bizarre way of coaching to be married to one system. Even fecking Conte is playing a 433 with Napoli this season.

People might not want to accept it but it is very possible that his genius is limited to the Portuguese league. He wouldn’t be the first manager to be exposed once making the step up. The PL is the strongest it’s ever been with managerial talent.
 
Well, most of our players are game raisers. They can't be bothered when the world isn't watching.
Honestly, against Newcastle we gifted 3 goals. Obviously Amorim wanted to take off early players for Lyon or give them complete rest. Unfortunately with Eriksen we played with 10 on the pitch.

If the result stayed 1-1 ot even 2-1, the picture until the end of the game would have been different. That Mazraoui mistake killed the team spirit.

Shit happens. One bad half full of individual mistakes can't undo the last 2 months of good work.


It's so painfully obvious that players are the problem, not the manager....
Serious question what as been good about it? We've been knocked out of the FA cup and held Arsenal and the worst City side (results wise) of probably the last decade to a draw. The football is still turgid, the players look lost, nobody is improving I don't see the good work at all.
 
It's whatever you want it to be but your thinking is the same as mine - that Liverpool team was mediocre at best, yet we are still doing worse than that team under Amorim.

Ah I thought you might have been arguing that Hodgson had it tougher or something. It's grim whichever way you look at it.
 
Hit the nail on the head. The bold statement is actually the worst thing, because to me we were never favorites against top six under EtH, but still a better team than the bottom half ones. Now, we arent that against any team.

Truth be told, he actuallty looks quite small and tender squatting there at the side line. Almost looking a bit lost. That is not a good sign.
Are you joking? We regularly got taken apart by teams in the bottom half under Ten Hag. Palace, Bournemouth...even Championship Coventry had a good go for 45 minutes.

Its madness that people are saying 'a manager should get better out of these players' when the bulk of them that constitute the spine have downed tools under one manager but several under 3 managers already and have proven they're not up to it in any system.
 
Meaning that the reason Moyes and Pereira have managed to turn around Wolves and Everton is because of their experience in multiple different situations at different clubs. Relegation battling and otherwise.

It’s the difference between a coach going back to basics vs what Amorim is trying to do. Despite Ruud’s struggles at Leicester I’m convinced we would have achieved a better position under his management than Amorims because he wasn’t trying to make a radical change.

In some ways we are being screwed by our own history. We didn’t want to do ‘another Ole’ by appointing Ruud until the end of the season and he does well and then keep the job.

Instead we went for the right guy (hopefully) at the wrong time and made a different mistake.
 
Serious question what as been good about it? We've been knocked out of the FA cup and held Arsenal and the worst City side (results wise) of probably the last decade to a draw. The football is still turgid, the players look lost, nobody is improving I don't see the good work at all.
I'll take a stab.

Out of possession, our defensive structure looks a lot better. Under Ten Hag, every time the ball was lost we looked like we'd get taken apart due to the doughnut formation. Now it's actually structurally quite sound - we just have a lot of players who basically gift chances away to the opposition at least 2/3 times a game which alongside the inevitable chances that any team creates can be fatal to us.

Our build up play is fairly turgid - a bit part of that for me is having no real focal point . There are however occasional glimpses of how the system is supposed to work - the midfield getting the ball out to the wingback (or Bruno wider) and the crossfield ball opening up gaps which all took often are thwarted by a bad/ non-existent touch from Hojlund or Garna skying the chance. When Dorgu plays, there is a width and ability to use that crossfield play which there isn't with Dalot and Maz.

I think there are some factors which give Amorim time here - the Amad injury was brutal to our chances this season alongside Rashford going out on loan because he'd downed tools. We have a toothless system up top but basically one conduit in Bruno and a patchy talent in Garnacho to play through. I think it makes the system look a lot more defensive than it's planned to be. If we had Amad, Bruno, Garnacho available and even Mainoo in there, I think we'd see a lot more technical ability and overloads in that system which we can't have because he's basically got a back 5 and water carriers available across the team.
 
You’d think by now some fans would’ve learnt to not have blind confidence for a manager.

I’m not saying sack him but blindly trusting that a manager is the answer when there’s no evidence of it on the pitch is just foolish at this stage.

I think everyone can admit he probably does need more time and was dealt a bad hand. That is all true but in the things he can control such as our performance on the pitch, it has been dreadful if we’re being honest.

By now we should be seeing things in how we play that give us confidence going into next season. I see nothing other than, if we had better players they would look better and that’s about it. The defence doesn’t have a clue and look less comfortable in a 3 than they did with 2.

Passing out from the back is slightly better than under ETH but still far away from other good sides. He plays a flat back 3 and hardly seeks to create the extra man advantage in midfield. It’s a horrible use of having an extra defender if they don’t take up a faux midfield role at times. The defenders just pass between themselves creating zero danger.

What has really improved since he’s been here? Do we press any better maybe but it’s still pretty crap. Attack is turgid and Garnacho and Hojlund have actually regressed under him.

The worst thing is he’s so stubborn and set in his ways with his system that we’ll never know if the team could be better with a different setup under him. It’s such a bizarre way of coaching to be married to one system. Even fecking Conte is playing a 433 with Napoli this season.

People might not want to accept it but it is very possible that his genius is limited to the Portuguese league. He wouldn’t be the first manager to be exposed once making the step up. The PL is the strongest it’s ever been with managerial talent.

Or even the idea of adapting to what is front of us, either the opponent or the situation that we're facing. If we're 1-0 down with minutes to go, what about even making a slight switch to 3-5-2 to put another player next to the striker? That allows him to keep his back three but also gives the striker up top some help. I'm surprised we haven't seen many situations like that this season where we've played both Hojlund and Zirkzee up top together, and I don't mean Zirkzee playing as one of the two in the 3-4-2-1. If we're playing a home game against an opponent that we should be beating (e.g. Ipswich), switching to a 4-3-3 seems more than reasonable.

I can see the usage of 3-4-2-1 and see the merits behind it. But, it really wouldn't hurt us at all to have different ideas when things aren't going so well and we need to change it up. I would say that this is the sign of a great coach as he is able to adapt to what's in front of him and whatever situation he is presented with. I wouldn't take it as a sign of weakness if within games we moved to a slightly different system if we needed to do something, and Amorim shouldn't take that as a sign of weakness, but rather a strength. He can still work on his most preferred system, but having a plan B or C wouldn't kill us.
 
Nothing, he more or less admitted in the Rio interview that he was out of ideas. I think I lost confidence in his capabilities after that segment. He's very one dimensional and lacks versatility. It's not just the formation but his interpretation of how it's adopted which is the problem for me.

This is why I keep comparing his use of the system with Alonso's, one has far much more nuance in and out of possession due to their philosophy but fans will ignorantly say it's because of the players.

Amorim will undoubtedly fail in his tenure at United, just like Dorgu, newer players will be purchased but the improvement will be so minimal that it's barely noticeable.

Next season he will need to finish in the top four, he'll only have one year left as a triggered option, at this point Jim would be an absolute lunatic to activate the further year in his contract.

Fans aren’t ignorantly saying it’s the players. It is the players.

Under both Ten Hag and now Amorim we’ve repeatedly ‘outplayed’ the opposition by both the eye test and xG only to lose many of those games because of terrible mistakes or poor finishing.

Before Ten Hag was sacked we were great at Palace away first half and to a lesser extent West Ham but drew and lost because we couldn’t finish. Even the first game of the season Bruno missed 2/3 great chances.

And as the season has gone on the same thing has happened again and again. We were the better team against Forest, City and at times against Arsenal. But one horrible bit of defending from our own corner costs us a goal and we lose to Forest. Wastefulness in front of goal cost us more points in each game.

The only reason we drew against Lyon was Onana. At other times it’s been woeful challenges to give away pens. For a while we couldn’t defend a corner.

Between both boxes we are often now competitive but we can’t out score Onana’s mistakes with Hojlund, Garnacho & Zirkzee up top.
 
What pisses me off to no end is when people do the "Real Madrid wouldn't accept these low standards, there would be riots, why do we" If real madrid had been in complete fecking footballing oblivion for over a decade they would, because the first thing you have to do to move forward is accept where you are. First couple of seaons post Fergie, yeah sure, we should have been competing on all fronts, building the team and continuing our momentum at the top. We havent been there for 12 years with many managers and many players, we need a root and branch rebuild from the bottom up because frankly we have a bottom half Premier league squad and we have pissed away a billion pounds completely wasted on unusable ankle weights that wont fall off for another 2 seasons.

In this vein, Amorim deserves the ability to attempt to do this and theres going to be short term pain, its going to take us years to get our squad back up to scratch and even then its not garunteed because we are competing against 16 other established teams in the top division where our financial advantage doesnt count anymore due to PSR, other than the ones brasenly cheating, every club is able to spend similar types of money each year, we cant outspend to skip ahead and the top players are going to clubs currently competiting in the champions league, which our only hope for getting into is winning the europa.

The outlook is insanely bleak and you have to be honest about where we are and drop our expectations if we want to move forward. if we are expecting top 4 with this squad straight away, your living in a fantasy land. Amorim wanted to come in the summer, we grabbed him early and the seasons been a complete write off, he gets judged at the end of next season based on if we are moving in the right direction or not, with a full summer transfer window and pre season. If we are 17th playing shit football then fair enough.
 
Since Amorim's arrival, there’s been a lot of talk around his preferred 3-4-2-1 system. Personally, I don’t have any real issue with the formation itself. Most systems evolve fluidly in-game anyway, and we’ve seen that to some extent under him. My issue lies more with the profiles being selected to execute it. A good manager isn’t just someone who has a philosophy - they’re someone who knows how to adapt that philosophy to the players at their disposal.

Now, I get it - we’re not working with a world-class squad here. Amorim doesn’t have the same tools he had at Sporting, and that inevitably makes things trickier. But if you’re trying something over and over again without consistent success, surely, you have to consider a tweak? At some point, persistence becomes stubbornness.

After Onana’s costly errors against Lyon, Amorim publicly held his hands up, saying: “If you look at the season, I've made more mistakes than them in these last games and these last months.” While that might seem like he’s protecting the players and taking responsibility, he’s actually right. He has made a number of poor decisions.

A common defence for him is: "These aren’t his players." But that’s a bit of a cop-out, for me. Managing a team isn’t just about waiting until you have your perfect XI - it’s about getting the best out of what you have. If you can’t adapt your approach to the squad in front of you, then what’s the point of being a manager?

Take the Newcastle game as an example. Plenty of people picked up on this, but it’s worth repeating: his obsession with dropping the middle centre-back into midfield - something that worked at Sporting - isn’t translating here. Against Newcastle, Lindelof was pushed into midfield, Yoro shifted to a quasi-left back role, and Mazraoui took up his usual spot on the right. This left us with a pivot of Ugarte and Lindelof, with Eriksen and Bruno dropping deep to help build.

The issue? First, we didn’t have the right profiles in those deeper areas to deal with Newcastle’s press. And second, on the few occasions we did beat the press, we lacked the numbers and cutting edge in the final third.

For me, Amorim had to see that it wasn’t working and adjust. Instead, he stuck with it for 90 minutes, further exposing the weaknesses of certain players, rather than playing to their strengths. And that, fundamentally, is a manager’s job - maximise your squad’s ability, even if it means compromising slightly on your ideal setup.

Again, I’m not against his system. I actually think we’ve looked sharper in certain recent matches, and there are glimpses of progress. But if he continues to be this rigid, he may find himself under pressure a lot sooner than anyone expected.
 
I'm all for long term thinking but a short term strategy alongside that wouldn't have been a bad thing.

No European football of any kind will cost us a shit load of money which is going to ultimately impact our plans in the medium term at the very least.

The points difference between us and 8th (and potential qualification to Europa League) isn't that massive. A few tweaks to this formation might have seen us pick up a couple more wins and at the very least, give us something (however small) to fight for between now and the end of the season.

And I know I keep banging on about this but fans were expected to keep going to matches and paying full price even though the club has essentially decided that the season can just become an experiment.

If I decided to sack a few home games this season, I would have had my season ticket taken off me for next season. Yet, the club have been seemingly happy to do this since January. The whole thing is shite.
I completely understand the paying supporters pain over this. Yet I still dont think the alternative is worth the risk. ETHs reign is literally the best example of why compromise lives things in no man's land. He comprised from day only and long term never found his way back to the road of success once a storm hit.
 
We have looked like we struggle to progress the ball from the back for at least 2 seasons and it has nothing to do with the formation

Not sure about that. We struggled to put the ball in the net and struggled to defend transitions in Ten Hag season 2. But we moved the ball relatively quickly - see Mainoo goal in Fa Cup, passing out.
 
.....
From the get go it was fairly for me and many others to see that this system wasn't gonna work on a consistent basis. I don't think it's a controversial take, it requires way too much from a sorry set of players.
Everyone could see it wasn't going to work on a consistent basis it's true. Especially sans significant January reinforcement. What's baffling though is however, why a number of fans would rather have not bothered at all, yet a number of these same players will be here next season, when neccesarry reinforcements will arrive.

As if i'ts not better to get them a 6 months crash course in the system and the manager's methods. So that the ones who prove "they can swim with the tide" and stay after the summer are not clueless when neccesary missing pieces do arrive after summer transfers are not lost, holding the project back at the start of the next campaign
 
Jesus that was a long read from Sunday.

Can tell we lost, over 20 pages of the same posters, repeating the same thing over and over again.

Before I start yes Amorim has underperformed.

This team is easily the one of the worst assembled squad in PL history for the money spent, our GK has made 8 errors leading to goals in all competitions since he arrived for a fee of £43.8m, our 72m ST has scored a total of 13 goals in 57 PL games with 7 of those goals coming in 6 games between December & February last year, a 33 Y/O DM who cost 60m who's legs have gone and has been a liability since his 1st season, a 55m CAM who has played a grand total of 486 mins this season & 756 mins last season, an £85m RW who no longer plays for us who is showing his level is Real Betis a EL La Liga side and £48m on a 5ft 9 CB who has had 2 major injuries and a reoccurrence of 1 during his 3 seasons at the club.

This is just ETH signings and these cost a grand total of £363.8m, I haven't even gone into the money Ole wasted on Sancho, Maguire, DVB & AWB.

This is the reason we are where we are signing over priced players, not good enough and have significantly weakened the team year on year.

Yes the Jury is still out on the likes of MDL, Ugarte, Mazraoui & Zirkzee I think they deserve a full season before we judge if they are good enough, I think Yoro & Dorgu have shown glimpses of talent with obvious inconsistencies that come with young players , but are of the physicality required to compete in the PL.

The system is not the issue with this team, our inability to progress the ball through the thirds has been an issue since Ole was in charge, Yoro, De ligt & Mazraoui have shown the ability to break the lines, but our Midfield is not press resistant and unable to take it under pressure and either recycle it or drive forward on the half turn, when we do break the lines our front 3 either over run it or fail to pick someone out with the correct pass, leading to the attack breaking down.

Garnacho & Hojlund have wasted multiple chances in the last week alone, yes Garnacho scored at the weekend but doesn't change my opinion from the eye test of him.

I have seen multiple posts about if Dorgu is the quality we are signing then we are truly sh1t, he should of had an assist against City had Garnacho not messed up that header and had Hojlund not miskicked that sitter against Lyon of where he put it on his stronger foot about 10 yards out, when he does create chances there is no one there to finish them anyway.

The move between Eriksen, Bruno & Zirkzee a top class ST buries that, completely different outlook, when you don't take your chances you won't win many games.

Amorim has limited the number of shots we have conceded since the turn of the year, majority of the goals we concede are from defensive errors or GK howlers, as proved against Newcastle changing Onana didn't stop that, this squad is technically and tactically weak.

Yes results have been poor, but don't tell me you haven't noticed any improvement in performances with better finishing we would of beat Arsenal and City at home, instead we collected 2 points and before anyone says well he hasn't improved them, Arsenal signed Fabregas to replace Jamie O'Hara should they have just stuck with him to see if he improved, sometimes you just can't polish a turd.

This team clearly needs reinforcements no matter who the manager is, or whatever modern style of play they want to implement, he deserves the summer to bring in the players he requires before we can fully judge what he is capable of, people who bang on about Arteta his Arsenal team was crap for 2 1/2 years, no one was saying how great of a manager he was, if he is that good why has he won nothing more than a covid Fa cup? ETH won more.
 
I feel like he's been incredibly lucky in that he got a free pass for this season due to the fact that he came in mid season.
We all know the squad has some glaring weaknesses, ie a keeper who lets us down time and again and no forward scoring 20+ goals etc but I think hard questions need to be asked as to whether he's the right guy to back with rebuilding this team.
Maybe he is, but I definitely wouldn't be blindly backing him, as apart from his honesty in the press conferences, I haven't been one iota impressed with anything else he's done apart from shipping off Rashford and Antony.
I'd imagine if he could wind the clock back he wouldn't have touched this job with a bargepole, and make no mistake, this is the hardest job in football, due to the size of the club and the current state of the ownership and the lack of quality in the squad. He's young and relatively inexperienced so maybe it's all getting too much for him which is why he's starting to look like he'd rather be somewhere else.
 
Jesus that was a long read from Sunday.

Can tell we lost, over 20 pages of the same posters, repeating the same thing over and over again.

Before I start yes Amorim has underperformed.

This team is easily the one of the worst assembled squad in PL history for the money spent, our GK has made 8 errors leading to goals in all competitions since he arrived for a fee of £43.8m, our 72m ST has scored a total of 13 goals in 57 PL games with 7 of those goals coming in 6 games between December & February last year, a 33 Y/O DM who cost 60m who's legs have gone and has been a liability since his 1st season, a 55m CAM who has played a grand total of 486 mins this season & 756 mins last season, an £85m RW who no longer plays for us who is showing his level is Real Betis a EL La Liga side and £48m on a 5ft 9 CB who has had 2 major injuries and a reoccurrence of 1 during his 3 seasons at the club.

This is just ETH signings and these cost a grand total of £363.8m, I haven't even gone into the money Ole wasted on Sancho, Maguire, DVB & AWB.

This is the reason we are where we are signing over priced players, not good enough and have significantly weakened the team year on year.

Yes the Jury is still out on the likes of MDL, Ugarte, Mazraoui & Zirkzee I think they deserve a full season before we judge if they are good enough, I think Yoro & Dorgu have shown glimpses of talent with obvious inconsistencies that come with young players , but are of the physicality required to compete in the PL.

The system is not the issue with this team, our inability to progress the ball through the thirds has been an issue since Ole was in charge, Yoro, De ligt & Mazraoui have shown the ability to break the lines, but our Midfield is not press resistant and unable to take it under pressure and either recycle it or drive forward on the half turn, when we do break the lines our front 3 either over run it or fail to pick someone out with the correct pass, leading to the attack breaking down.

Garnacho & Hojlund have wasted multiple chances in the last week alone, yes Garnacho scored at the weekend but doesn't change my opinion from the eye test of him.

I have seen multiple posts about if Dorgu is the quality we are signing then we are truly sh1t, he should of had an assist against City had Garnacho not messed up that header and had Hojlund not miskicked that sitter against Lyon of where he put it on his stronger foot about 10 yards out, when he does create chances there is no one there to finish them anyway.

The move between Eriksen, Bruno & Zirkzee a top class ST buries that, completely different outlook, when you don't take your chances you won't win many games.

Amorim has limited the number of shots we have conceded since the turn of the year, majority of the goals we concede are from defensive errors or GK howlers, as proved against Newcastle changing Onana didn't stop that, this squad is technically and tactically weak.

Yes results have been poor, but don't tell me you haven't noticed any improvement in performances with better finishing we would of beat Arsenal and City at home, instead we collected 2 points and before anyone says well he hasn't improved them, Arsenal signed Fabregas to replace Jamie O'Hara should they have just stuck with him to see if he improved, sometimes you just can't polish a turd.

This team clearly needs reinforcements no matter who the manager is, or whatever modern style of play they want to implement, he deserves the summer to bring in the players he requires before we can fully judge what he is capable of, people who bang on about Arteta his Arsenal team was crap for 2 1/2 years, no one was saying how great of a manager he was, if he is that good why has he won nothing more than a covid Fa cup? ETH won more.
The improvements are so minuscule though and in that same period we lost to Forrest (good team i know), and got knocked out of the cup by Fulham.

This is the worrying part for me. What if he doesn't get the players how long do we persist with him? Everything coming out around are transfers is the budgets thin, so say he gets 5/6 out and 3/4 in surely that's not enough? The form he's showing with this squad is near relegation level and surely quite a few of them are going to be here next year and the fact we've seen zero improvement from anyone, barring maybe Bruno that's terrifying to me.

On Arteta he was hardly competing against bums Pep's City was a freak of nature. Don't expect Amorim to be competing with Pep or Slot but surely there's a middle ground and at this moment he's competing with RVN Leicester.
 
The improvements are so minuscule though and in that same period we lost to Forrest (good team i know), and got knocked out of the cup by Fulham.

This is the worrying part for me. What if he doesn't get the players how long do we persist with him? Everything coming out around are transfers is the budgets thin, so say he gets 5/6 out and 3/4 in surely that's not enough? The form he's showing with this squad is near relegation level and surely quite a few of them are going to be here next year and the fact we've seen zero improvement from anyone, barring maybe Bruno that's terrifying to me.

On Arteta he was hardly competing against bums Pep's City was a freak of nature. Don't expect Amorim to be competing with Pep or Slot but surely there's a middle ground and at this moment he's competing with RVN Leicester.

I do agree with the sentiments that we're risking a potential third season in a row, basically trying to survive again if we go into next season with this manager without exactly what he needs. Even at that there's huge question marks over his ability based on his time at the club so far. Hate to say it, but Thursday turns out a disaster the club will have a decision to make, because a third season in a row playing like this and suffering result like this will be immensely damaging whatever way you look at it.
 
The improvements are so minuscule though and in that same period we lost to Forrest (good team i know), and got knocked out of the cup by Fulham.

This is the worrying part for me. What if he doesn't get the players how long do we persist with him? Everything coming out around are transfers is the budgets thin, so say he gets 5/6 out and 3/4 in surely that's not enough? The form he's showing with this squad is near relegation level and surely quite a few of them are going to be here next year and the fact we've seen zero improvement from anyone, barring maybe Bruno that's terrifying to me.

On Arteta he was hardly competing against bums Pep's City was a freak of nature. Don't expect Amorim to be competing with Pep or Slot but surely there's a middle ground and at this moment he's competing with RVN Leicester.

I don't think he's competing with any other manager. This season was always going to be a disastrous one and any fans who thought football was going to make them happy this year, have only brought it on themselves. Therefore it doesn't matter if we finish between 6th and 17th as long as we win the EL and rebuild the squad appropriately for next year this summer and get all our players healthy and fit again.
 
This group of players weren't crap in the previous shape simply because they are crap(Many of them are), they were crap in large part down to the mind numbingly insane tactics that Ten Hag played. A one man midfield with the other 2 midfielders pushed up almost alongside the striker, leaving midfield open to an extent I have never seen before from a professional team, and the 1 man was a player on his last legs who even at his peak would have had no chance of covering the space.

That has to be acknowledged when discussing the pointlessness of changing the formation.

Huge gamble by the club to go this way, a ton of money will have to be spent otherwise it was illogical to bring him in, and that will have to be done on faith that his system is one that can work in the PL, which is far from a guarantee.
 
Also, to compete in top 6 we don't need a full new squad.
A stable goalkeeper, much better striker than Hojlund (that's all strikers in PL really and half in Championship) and a consistently good winger to place Garnacho as impact sub (Cunha?) will make massive difference.

If we can secure top 6 with stable football next season, we can continue building on that.

Agreed. Buying the right players at striker and keeper and getting everyone fit for next year will alone make a massive difference.
 
Its alright saying buying the right players this summer will make a big difference but where is the money coming from and how are we going to attract these players when we cant offer European football for the next 2 seasons at least?

According to reports our Transfer budget this summer will be only £200m which is nowhere near enough to get all the players needed to get this in a position to play Ruben's tactics effectively.
 
Its alright saying buying the right players this summer will make a big difference but where is the money coming from and how are we going to attract these players when we cant offer European football for the next 2 seasons at least?

According to reports our Transfer budget this summer will be only £200m which is nowhere near enough to get all the players needed to get this in a position to play Ruben's tactics effectively.

The plus side of that £200m transfer limit is that it should mean we don't just spend the money on inflated fees ala Sancho, Antony, etc. Dorgu was around £25/30 million, so I wonder if we'll see more of those types of signings. Maybe big money for a striker and Dorgu-ish fees for others?

One of our best attackers this season has been Amad, and his transfer fee was in the same ball park area as Dorgu's, albeit years ago. We're playing the longer game with those type of signings, though.

The downside of that is that we have quite a few young prospects already and we need to counter balance with some more experience. But, too often at this club does that lead to over-the-hill type signings. I'm very interested to see who we get in. I just hope we get all of our business done early so that Amorim is able to make the most out of preseason.
 
Everyone could see it wasn't going to work on a consistent basis it's true. Especially sans significant January reinforcement. What's baffling though is however, why a number of fans would rather have not bothered at all, yet a number of these same players will be here next season, when neccesarry reinforcements will arrive.

As if i'ts not better to get them a 6 months crash course in the system and the manager's methods. So that the ones who prove "they can swim with the tide" and stay after the summer are not clueless when neccesary missing pieces do arrive after summer transfers are not lost, holding the project back at the start of the next campaign
Having seen enough games now under Amorim, how many players do you think will be performing better under this system by next season ?
 
I don't think he's competing with any other manager. This season was always going to be a disastrous one and any fans who thought football was going to make them happy this year, have only brought it on themselves. Therefore it doesn't matter if we finish between 6th and 17th as long as we win the EL and rebuild the squad appropriately for next year this summer and get all our players healthy and fit again.
Couldn't disagree more. 6th-8th gets us some form of European competition next year and don't you earn more the higher you finish too? Now I agree the squads bad but surely it can't be as bad as we're seeing?

In your opinion how many of win the Europa, rebuild the squad and get all the players fit again goals are achievable? I'd say win the Europa is the most achievable and even that's a long shot with what we're going to have to field on Thursday so surely that means a lot of these players are going to be back playing next year.
 
Couldn't disagree more. 6th-8th gets us some form of European competition next year and don't you earn more the higher you finish too? Now I agree the squads bad but surely it can't be as bad as we're seeing?

In your opinion how many of win the Europa, rebuild the squad and get all the players fit again goals are achievable? I'd say win the Europa is the most achievable and even that's a long shot with what we're going to have to field on Thursday so surely that means a lot of these players are going to be back playing next year.

Right now all of the above are achievable. Winning the EL will simply give us a bit more money to work with and make us a slightly more viable destination for players who might be solely fixated on playing in the CL. But all things said, once Ten Hag was sacked, I wrote the rest of the season off as little more than a glorified series of training sessions for Amorim to gradually coach the squad into his formation and tactics in preparation for a massive summer of transfer activity. Next year is where the rubber will truly meet the road imo.
 
The plus side of that £200m transfer limit is that it should mean we don't just spend the money on inflated fees ala Sancho, Antony, etc. Dorgu was around £25/30 million, so I wonder if we'll see more of those types of signings. Maybe big money for a striker and Dorgu-ish fees for others?

One of our best attackers this season has been Amad, and his transfer fee was in the same ball park area as Dorgu's, albeit years ago. We're playing the longer game with those type of signings, though.

The downside of that is that we have quite a few young prospects already and we need to counter balance with some more experience. But, too often at this club does that lead to over-the-hill type signings. I'm very interested to see who we get in. I just hope we get all of our business done early so that Amorim is able to make the most out of preseason.
Does the fee not seem inflated? I understand United tax is always going to be there but £25m for a kid from Lecce seems steep. This teams crying out for experience but unfortunately that's expensive.
 
So, once again we’ve turned on a manager. What he did at Sporting is infinitely nore
Impressive than what ETH did at Ajax.

He hasn’t just become shit overnight. It’s this virus of a club that is the problem.
 
So, once again we’ve turned on a manager. What he did at Sporting is infinitely nore
Impressive than what ETH did at Ajax.

He hasn’t just become shit overnight. It’s this virus of a club that is the problem.

The problem here imo is the circumstances - asking a manager to abruptly parachute into a new league mid-season and expecting them to somehow have a good season with a squad mired in injuries and transition was never going to happen.
 
Does the fee not seem inflated? I understand United tax is always going to be there but £25m for a kid from Lecce seems steep. This teams crying out for experience but unfortunately that's expensive.

Tbh, I'm not sure what really constitutes a good fee or good value anymore. It does seem steep, you're right. Money seems to take you less far now than it did a few years ago and fees just seem to be rising higher and higher.
 
So, once again we’ve turned on a manager. What he did at Sporting is infinitely nore
Impressive than what ETH did at Ajax.

He hasn’t just become shit overnight. It’s this virus of a club that is the problem.
Why would this matter? ETH is a past manager who has had his time here. Also, for what it’s worth, he didn’t just manage Ajax which is why he was more attractive than say a De Boer type.
 
Why would this matter? ETH is a past manager who has had his time here. Also, for what it’s worth, he didn’t just manage Ajax which is why he was more attractive than say a De Boer type.

Amorim didn't just manage Sporting...
 
Couldn't disagree more. 6th-8th gets us some form of European competition next year and don't you earn more the higher you finish too? Now I agree the squads bad but surely it can't be as bad as we're seeing?

In your opinion how many of win the Europa, rebuild the squad and get all the players fit again goals are achievable? I'd say win the Europa is the most achievable and even that's a long shot with what we're going to have to field on Thursday so surely that means a lot of these players are going to be back playing next year.

It’s a bit over £3m per place in the table, 7th earns £31m more than 17th.
I think when you look at it weekly, it’s about 600k per week. It wouldn’t surprise me if that is the entirety of the money ‘saved’ from loaning out Rashford, Antony, and Sancho, Malacia.
Now obviously it’s not like a good manager would certainly have got Utd to finish 7th (and you are unlikely to finish 17th), but at the extremes, the numbers are significant.
 
The plus side of that £200m transfer limit is that it should mean we don't just spend the money on inflated fees ala Sancho, Antony, etc. Dorgu was around £25/30 million, so I wonder if we'll see more of those types of signings. Maybe big money for a striker and Dorgu-ish fees for others?

One of our best attackers this season has been Amad, and his transfer fee was in the same ball park area as Dorgu's, albeit years ago. We're playing the longer game with those type of signings, though.

The downside of that is that we have quite a few young prospects already and we need to counter balance with some more experience. But, too often at this club does that lead to over-the-hill type signings. I'm very interested to see who we get in. I just hope we get all of our business done early so that Amorim is able to make the most out of preseason.

We'll end up spending that 200m on cheap players who are nowhere near ready to play at this level because no one better will come due to us having no European football to offer a very little chance of winning trophies and as a result we'll be no better off.
 
Since Amorim's arrival, there’s been a lot of talk around his preferred 3-4-2-1 system. Personally, I don’t have any real issue with the formation itself. Most systems evolve fluidly in-game anyway, and we’ve seen that to some extent under him. My issue lies more with the profiles being selected to execute it. A good manager isn’t just someone who has a philosophy - they’re someone who knows how to adapt that philosophy to the players at their disposal.

Now, I get it - we’re not working with a world-class squad here. Amorim doesn’t have the same tools he had at Sporting, and that inevitably makes things trickier. But if you’re trying something over and over again without consistent success, surely, you have to consider a tweak? At some point, persistence becomes stubbornness.

After Onana’s costly errors against Lyon, Amorim publicly held his hands up, saying: “If you look at the season, I've made more mistakes than them in these last games and these last months.” While that might seem like he’s protecting the players and taking responsibility, he’s actually right. He has made a number of poor decisions.

A common defence for him is: "These aren’t his players." But that’s a bit of a cop-out, for me. Managing a team isn’t just about waiting until you have your perfect XI - it’s about getting the best out of what you have. If you can’t adapt your approach to the squad in front of you, then what’s the point of being a manager?

Take the Newcastle game as an example. Plenty of people picked up on this, but it’s worth repeating: his obsession with dropping the middle centre-back into midfield - something that worked at Sporting - isn’t translating here. Against Newcastle, Lindelof was pushed into midfield, Yoro shifted to a quasi-left back role, and Mazraoui took up his usual spot on the right. This left us with a pivot of Ugarte and Lindelof, with Eriksen and Bruno dropping deep to help build.

The issue? First, we didn’t have the right profiles in those deeper areas to deal with Newcastle’s press. And second, on the few occasions we did beat the press, we lacked the numbers and cutting edge in the final third.

For me, Amorim had to see that it wasn’t working and adjust. Instead, he stuck with it for 90 minutes, further exposing the weaknesses of certain players, rather than playing to their strengths. And that, fundamentally, is a manager’s job - maximise your squad’s ability, even if it means compromising slightly on your ideal setup.

Again, I’m not against his system. I actually think we’ve looked sharper in certain recent matches, and there are glimpses of progress. But if he continues to be this rigid, he may find himself under pressure a lot sooner than anyone expected.
Amorim is known for being inflexible. During his time at Sporting CP, this trait has drawn considerable criticism.

His early months at the club mirrored his start at Manchester United. He introduced a 3-4-2-1 system — and that was it. There were no alternatives. He was fully convinced this was the best way for his team to play. By the end of that season, criticism began to grow, and many supporters were unsure whether he should remain in charge for the following year.

Then came the next season, with a renewed squad. The signings were surprisingly good, although fans initially didn’t quite understand the strategy behind them. The team still lacked a proper striker, and reports indicated that Amorim specifically requested Paulinho.

That season went remarkably well, and Sporting CP won the Portuguese league title. However, during the winter transfer window, it became clear: Amorim wanted Paulinho — and no one else. As a result, Sporting spent a record fee to bring him in. Most people didn’t quite understand the move, as Paulinho was… well… neither outstanding nor terrible. He had the potential to be good, but more often than not, he underperformed and drew heavy criticism.

The following season, Paulinho crumbled under the pressure. He insisted on playing Ricardo Esgaio, who was widely criticised by fans. Throughout the season, supporters voiced their frustration with the lack of tactical alternatives and the persistence in using underperforming players. Amorim did not care. He insisted that Esgaio and Paulinho were doing very well and knew everything of the game.

Ironically, this very stubbornness became one of the key reasons for Amorim’s success. After a long spell of fan frustration, Esgaio - originally brought in to replace Pedro Porro - suffered an injury. This forced Amorim to turn to Geny Catamo, a reserve player who had previously been loaned to Marítimo and was not seen as a serious option.

Amorim began using Geny as a right-back or right-midfielder. That change became one of the defining moments of his success at Sporting CP.

The back three remained, but the setup evolved: Nuno Santos, originally a winger, was now often deployed as a left-back or a left-midfielder. Matheus Reis, a left-back, played as a centre-back. Geny, a left-footed winger, took on the right-back role. Despite still appearing to field five defenders, the team effectively played with only three at the back. Occasionally, Amorim adjusted further — for instance, using Matheus Reis as a left-back to push Geny further forward as a winger.

At the same time, Paulinho started partnering with Gyökeres up front. The once heavily criticised striker finally began to thrive. With less pressure, he operated between the lines, sometimes coming off the bench and creating chances. He evolved from a system with one striker and started some matches with two strikers.

That said, Amorim remains a rigid manager. He famously dropped fan-favourite Slimani, benched another fan-favourite, Jérémy Mathieu, and did the same with Marcos Acuña. His commitment to players like Esgaio or Paulinho, despite poor form, was unwavering.

He is capable of adapting, but only when triggered by an event he deems significant. For example, he eventually gave minutes to Quaresma — a player he had dismissed since his first season and had publicly stated he would not count on again.
 
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The problem here imo is the circumstances - asking a manager to abruptly parachute into a new league mid-season and expecting them to somehow have a good season with a squad mired in injuries and transition was never going to happen.

This isn’t a problem if people would just apply some very basic context to the current situation. Granted that is a step too far for a hell of a lot of posters here
 
Amorim is known for being inflexible. During his time at Sporting CP, this trait has drawn considerable criticism.

His early months at the club mirrored his start at Manchester United. He introduced a 3-4-2-1 system — and that was it. There were no alternatives. He was fully convinced this was the best way for his team to play. By the end of that season, criticism began to grow, and many supporters were unsure whether he should remain in charge for the following year.

Then came the next season, with a renewed squad. The signings were surprisingly good, although fans initially didn’t quite understand the strategy behind them. The team still lacked a proper striker, and reports indicated that Amorim specifically requested Paulinho.

That season went remarkably well, and Sporting CP won the Portuguese league title. However, during the winter transfer window, it became clear: Amorim wanted Paulinho — and no one else. As a result, Sporting spent a record fee to bring him in. Most people didn’t quite understand the move, as Paulinho was… well… neither outstanding nor terrible. He had the potential to be good, but more often than not, he underperformed and drew heavy criticism.

The following season, Paulinho crumbled under the pressure. He insisted on playing Ricardo Esgaio, who was widely criticised by fans. Throughout the season, supporters voiced their frustration with the lack of tactical alternatives and the persistence in using underperforming players. Amorim did not care. He insisted that Esgaio and Paulinho were doing very well and knew everything of the game.

Ironically, this very stubbornness became one of the key reasons for Amorim’s success. After a long spell of fan frustration, Esgaio - originally brought in to replace Pedro Porro - suffered an injury. This forced Amorim to turn to Geny Catamo, a reserve player who had previously been loaned to Marítimo and was not seen as a serious option.

Amorim began using Geny as a right-back or right-midfielder. That change became one of the defining moments of his success at Sporting CP.

The back three remained, but the setup evolved: Nuno Santos, originally a winger, was now often deployed as a left-back or a left-midfielder. Matheus Reis, a left-back, played as a centre-back. Geny, a left-footed winger, took on the right-back role. Despite still appearing to field five defenders, the team effectively played with only three at the back. Occasionally, Amorim adjusted further — for instance, using Matheus Reis as a left-back to push Geny further forward as a winger.

At the same time, Paulinho started partnering with Gyökeres up front. The once heavily criticised striker finally began to thrive. With less pressure, he operated between the lines, sometimes coming off the bench and creating chances. He evolved from a system with one striker and started some matches with two strikers.

That said, Amorim remains a rigid manager. He famously dropped fan-favourite Slimani, benched another fan-favourite, Jérémy Mathieu, and did the same with Marcos Acuña. His commitment to players like Esgaio or Paulinho, despite poor form, was unwavering.

He is capable of adapting, but only when triggered by an event he deems significant. For example, he eventually gave minutes to Quaresma — a player he had dismissed since his first season and had publicly stated he would not count on again.

Good post.

Curious what your overall thoughts on Gyokeres' quality are ? Strengths/weaknesses ?
 
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