Window closed.
International break.
Mountains.
Mole-hills.
Pointless micro-analysis.
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
International break.
Mountains.
Mole-hills.
Pointless micro-analysis.
It’s behind a paywall. Maybe it’s possible to copy-paste text from the article here?
It hurts every time.
Reading the Athletic article - I also feel for Hojlund, but he’ll be alright. He’s young and at a big club.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/65...roken-hojlund-project-90-amorims-baleba-push/
Via NY Times link works for me without subscription.
I always take Whitwell with a pinch of salt, he gets great access but he also dances to the club's tune. I feel like I just read a puff piece for Ineos/Amorim designed to calm quite a frustrated fanbase with a sad Hojlund prelude.
I am farly satisfied with our transfer (although a CM would have Made it a perfect transfer).
The ball is now in Amorim's court. We have Gottes ride of the bomb squad, buy new players for him ,he has had the pre season his supporters were harping about last season.
This squad is 6-4th place good,Amorim has to deliver result while playing attacking football.
The ball is now in Amorim's court. We have Gottes ride of the bomb squad, buy new players for him ,he has had the pre season his supporters were harping about last season.
This squad is 6-4th place good,Amorim has to deliver result while playing attacking football.
Open the page and turn off your internet connection on your fone immediately. You'll have the full page to read and paywall won't interfere.
We can't cut and paste the full article here as the site would get in trouble. Which is why I think it's ok to quote bits and pieces but put a full URL to the actual article in as well.
Kmowing Rubin, he won't start any new keeper unless there is an injury crisis. Even we buy Martinez, he won't be starting. Our goalkeeper works collectively with CBs to draw forwards. Since we have a new goalkeeper, he needs to ensure that he is comfortable with the ball to his feet and surrounding. It will be at least a few weeks to training before he takes to the field. It is likely Bayindir is goal to force Onana to reconsider his future with United and potentially move him in WC season. I hope we start seeing Sesko starting. If Cunha and Mount remains injury then likely Mbeuno and Amad/Zirkzee would start as 10 with Dalot as RB.
That's just daft. Sorry.
Rude. Maybe he knows a Rubin who would do exactly that.
That Utd would buy Martinez for £40mil , pay him 200k a week and not play him.There are suggestions and speculation and then there's stuff that's just....
I agree he won’t start immediately, but he will start as soon as he’s up to speed.
Two week international break. Surely he could be ready for City.
I hope so, but wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t thrown in right away, especially against City.
Rick probably would.
Yes, thanks, also managed to read. Excellent article
Thanks for bringing this back.
So this back and forth stated when i said that Alex Crook was a moron for saying "Its not Amorims fault the board had been so far reluctant to pay for a proper 'keeper and a CDM"
It is not that the club were reluctant to bring in a CDM. In my opinion, it is that the right one was not available at the right price.
Clearly, they like Baleba, but at £110+mil, at a club that won't sell him, it isn't a valid option. We don't know if there was any other CDMs on United's list that they liked enough to invest in. It may well be that they felt that other options were not right, so moved for Sesko, rather than sign a player they had doubts over, especially if they felt it was a short term solution.
Also consider that Sesko would have been soon off the table if United had not moved, given Newcastle were ready to do the deal - Ekitike, Delap and Gyokeres were already gone. So we would have been into Watkins territory, which the clubs dont seem to like the age of at the price Villa wanted. Similar to how Mbeumo would have soon have been gone if we hadn't made a move quick, which maybe sharpened minds to get him done before a striker/CDM?
I like Laurie Whitwell, but no journalist is party to all the of these decisions and there are many moving pieces. He makes it sound very binary that it was Striker v a CDM, ignoring any context around availability or price of the relative options.
You not think that Wilcox is also thinking about the squad aspect of all this? He probably knew there was scope to move on Hojlund with several Italian clubs interested. Would they have been able to do the same with Ugarte or Casemiro?
Amorim wants one CDM, it seems, so having two we paid over £100mil for, on over 400k a week combined, sitting on the bench, makes little sense. One has only been here a year and one seems to want to ride out his contract and bar a move to Saudi, is unsellable on his wages.
These articles never provide any context as they don't know what discussions are being had below surface level and end result.
We established that Amorim never "literally publicly stated many times he wants a new defensive midfielder." He never "literally publicly stated" this.
You also said that Untied were prioritizing a CDM. United clearly did not "prioritize" a CDM, as they already spent £130+mil on two number 10s.
If my wife tells me to prioritize the dishes, i expect she wants that done first.
And back to that moron Crook, who makes a living from regurgitating Ornstein and Romanos news, it wasn't long ago he was telling us this...
So im sure his original tweet i commented on would have criticised the club for not signing a striker, if they went CDM instead!
sounds like the club didn't back who amorim wanted to bring in including a new CM.....just means that unless they start winning soon, he'll be out the door by thanksgiving
Agree. Cant win with the fans.
If the manager picks our targets, we dont like it because they may not fit with the clubs long term strategy.
If the club picks, then how can the manager ever work with that player if he wants hand picked?
In the case of Martinez, he may have been the better pick for day one, given experience, but the club have to think long term too. Have to also consider price + wages for Martinez. He would have been expensive and we already have one expensive, well paid keeper in Onana. Most squad dont have room for two.
Im sure they have looked at all the of strengths and weaknesses of Martinez and Lammens.
I think they did to a degree. His first priority seemed to be Premier League experience which he got in the first 2 signings.
He then wanted Baleba who they did enquire about.
The move for a goalkeeper also seemed to be based on his request even though they didn't go for his first choice.
A bit of a balance, taking his requests into account whilst not letting him pick and choose.
Clearly not a snap decision to go for Lammens. Im sure they have profiled his technical ability, as well as his personality and mentality. He obviously has something in him that they feel gives them a good feeling that he can handle himself.
It is silly to just assume that Martinez would walk in and be fantastic from day one. The guy has made many a mistake for Villa.
Exactly. Im sure the manager wanted everything. The club, im sure, provided the best they could, within the constraints and parameters.
Just a thought. Maybe he would have got more had he been able to beat Spurs in the EL final and not fielded such an abject XI that a hapless Spurs found so easy to nully for two thirds of the game?
So it is funny how the narrative is now that the club have not done enough for the manager because he didn't get a CDM.
What has he done for the club? If Amorim really wanted to plug some midfield gaps, maybe he could be more flexible in his approach, rather just bringing his one cookie cutter system and expecting the club to work to that.
I think we have just learned our lesson about letting a manager have too much say in transfers and that's probably for the best regardless who the manager is.
The most successful clubs seem to operate that way nowadays and we should not be too proud to copy what works.
There are a few things going on here. It seems the club and management team are taking the overall lead on transfers, which is exactly what should happen. I am not sure its as binary as 'fix the attack', its going to be which players we are like are available and at reasonable prices, and who can the club shift. Plenty of outgoings in attack, so more room for incoming. I would have take the Bruno money, if he could have been convinced to go.
Though Cunha and Mbeumo were in no way cheap their prices don't look bad compared to what some forwards have gone for this summer. The only real oddity is that a GK was not a priority early on, its clear Onana is fundamentally flawed and we couldnt trust Bayindir. I'm happy with the profile of a promising young player rather than a short term fix who is not at the level of VDS for example. Midfield remains the problem area, but where are the obvious buys for under £100m? Feels strange we cant find a young prospect from somewhere but maybe it reflects the competition in the market.
Though Cunha and Mbeumo were in no way cheap their prices don't look bad compared to what some forwards have gone for this summer. The only real oddity is that a GK was not a priority early on, its clear Onana is fundamentally flawed and we couldnt trust Bayindir. I'm happy with the profile of a promising young player rather than a short term fix who is not at the level of VDS for example. Midfield remains the problem area, but where are the obvious buys for under £100m? Feels strange we cant find a young prospect from somewhere but maybe it reflects the competition in the market.
Do you think they made the right or wrong call?
Yet you know full well Martinez he would have done
Totally agree. Has to be a collaborative process.
A football person would have signed an experienced , top keeper who has proved himself in Premier League, if one was available... oh wait, one was available - Martinez!How the feck would I know? I don't work for the club's scouting department, I'm not privy to the thought process and criteria behind identifying Lammens and choosing to sign him ahead of other options. I was only commenting on the fact I think/hope the club are now signing players with a long term plan (looking beyond Amorim) as opposed to just signing whoever the current manager wants.
Who would a 'football person' have signed then?
Are you a 'football person'?
The math aint mathing here!
Plus, the butterfly effect. We did go 1-0 against Fulham at 60mins and were not able to hold on. How do we know we would have fared better at 1-0 up after 40 mins?
Game states change depending on key events, like goals. Amorim himself said the United team seemed to focus in on the result (i.e. start sitting back) and forgot to just play.
Front three wasn't the issue.
Putting in a cold Fredrickson, Maguire and Heaven was the mistake. Chucking in a couple of kids at the back, into that atmosphere was naive against a team who were playing the biggest game of their lives. Play the strong team, get the lead, then change. Especially if looking for the first win of the season.
Naive thinking from a manager who obviously thought United could just walk into Grimsby and immediately win. No experience of playing at one of these lower league grounds.
I suspect all coaches deep down are quite similar in wanting players who are around their peak, if you offer Amorim or any PL manager a 20 year old who might be incredible or a 27 year old proven 6/10 PL player, they will choose the latter because they now how fragile their job is. Naturally when they have to play youngsters they will big up the development, but they all just want to win everything as soon as possible.
Lammens hasn't played a minute yet and you are already saying that Martinez would have been the better decision.
For all you know, he may have exactly the technical ability and mental fortitude we need. Or have you been deep into the tape on him from watching hours of the Belgium Pro League?
You are also negating the price. Martinez would have wanted a good chunk of change. He is apparently on £150k a week at Villa. Onana is on more. Let say we cant shift Onana or Bayendir, that would be £400k a week on keepers at United, in a possition where only one plays at a time.
That is the kind of mess Barca have got themselves into with Garcia, Szczesny, ter Stegen and Pena.
Just a thought, why not let it play out and see?
Do you remember how it went when ten Hag drove our recruitment? Amorim can have an opinion but ultimately the club went with first establishing a side that can score goals, which has been a chronic problem for over 3 years.
The club also approached Baleba and inquired about Gallagher. None of the moves were feasible this window. We spent over £200 million in attack and PL proven players in Mbeumo and Cunha. How is that not backing Amorim?
To suggest Amorim is out by thanksgiving is ridiculous. My hope is that Amorim does well not just to bring joy back to the club but to also shut up the moaners and doomsday supporters. The negativity over every little thing is tiring.
How would you know?
Why did Sir Alex Ferguson sign a 20 year old DeGea back in 2011 instead of an experienced, Premier League proven keeper?And let's be honest Martinez is barely an upgrade on Onana, so I wouldn't describe him as a Top keeper. On top of that he's a lunatic.
And that's without even mentioning Villa wanted £40m for him and he'll have wanted decent wages.
Personally I'm glad we steered clear of him. Not worth the hassle.
Might agree more if I believed Lammens would come straight in against City but don't see that happeningHow would you know?
And let's be honest Martinez is barely an upgrade on Onana, so I wouldn't describe him as a Top keeper. On top of that he's a lunatic.
And that's without even mentioning Villa wanted £40m for him and he'll have wanted decent wages.
Personally I'm glad we steered clear of him. Not worth the hassle.
Do you see Onana in goal then?
The balance between now and future is a fine one. I prefer Lammens if thats their scouting choice. Martinez may start vs City but would have needed a transfer fee and higher wages. Potentially again needing replacement in a couple of years. That's the type of short term thinking we have been doing the past few years.
i want amorim to succeed....i'm not one of his naysayers just to clear that up
i'm glad they decided to address the attack first as that should have been priority....still not sure Sesko was the answer up front but his age fits the profile and he has shown he can score but time will tell
he clearly stated at the beginning of the summer he wanted to bring in a more athletic CM and while he publicly backed Onana(which he should) it seems like behind the scenes he wanted a more experienced keeper....neither took place
We were too late to move on Etkike. Not sure he would have picked us over Liverpool and delap turned us down for Chelsea.
We bought Cunha and Mbeumo for the here and now. Sesko and Lammens with an eye on the title challenge in 2028. The Athletic article on the New York Times website is a very informative read. Explains alot.
The went for Baleba but he was too expensive this summer. Wilcox, Barreda and Ratcliffe decided to pursue a striker.
As for the keeper, yes Amorim wanted Martinez from the start of the window. Utd were prioritising other positions and when Onana returned for preseason training out of shape and injured. Utd decide to act. Lammens was the call with an eye on 2028.
We shouldn't be giving in to what Amorim wants right here and now without one eye on the future. That's how we have operated post fergie since 2013 and it's been a mess.
He doesn't play Sesko which cost double of that because he is coward and likes his 5 defenders.
There are suggestions and speculation and then there's stuff that's just....qa
25 % winning rate
According to Whitwell's piece:
Players we considered:
Midfielders:
- Beyond Baleba, we considered : Ederson, Stiller, & Jashari
- Players admired by various people at United: Wharton & Hjulmand
- Budget option: Coentin Tolisso (Lyon)
Attackers:
- Delap (Berrada and Wilcox actually met with him)
- We explored options of bringing back Welbeck who ten Hag wanted to sign last year
- Calvert-Lewin, Semenyo (in case Mbeumo's fee was too high) were also considered
- We began pursuing Sesko on July 29 with the approval of SJR and the Glazers
Keepers:
- Onana wanted a new contract to offset a 25% pay cut from not qualifying for the CL, which annoyed Amorim.
- Emi Martinez called Licha Martinez and Amorim to plead for their assistance to get him to United but the finances didn't work for United (he made more than Onana and was on contract until 2029 + Villa wanted £30 for the transfer). United made a loan proposal to Villa which was rejected.
Players we considered:
Midfielders:
- Beyond Baleba, we considered : Ederson, Stiller, & Jashari
- Players admired by various people at United: Wharton & Hjulmand
- Budget option: Coentin Tolisso (Lyon)
Attackers:
- Delap (Berrada and Wilcox actually met with him)
- We explored options of bringing back Welbeck who ten Hag wanted to sign last year
- Calvert-Lewin, Semenyo (in case Mbeumo's fee was too high) were also considered
- We began pursuing Sesko on July 29 with the approval of SJR and the Glazers
Keepers:
- Onana wanted a new contract to offset a 25% pay cut from not qualifying for the CL, which annoyed Amorim.
- Emi Martinez called Licha Martinez and Amorim to plead for their assistance to get him to United but the finances didn't work for United (he made more than Onana and was on contract until 2029 + Villa wanted £30 for the transfer). United made a loan proposal to Villa which was rejected.