Ruben Amorim | 2025-26

Ted Lasso said:
Feel very confident that Van Gaal would have made us perennial Top 4 and title challengers maybe even winners had we kept him on a few more seasons and more importantly, invested in the types of players he said were the missing piece. Like...Sadio Mane

Genuinely one of the best tacticians of the time but Woody was too stupid to appreciate it and most fans too.
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I think the big issue that resulted from Van Gaal time here was that people were so vehemently against his football that the club totally went the opposite way and it was as if the idea of playing possession based football was the antithesis of what we should be doing.

I think Van Gaal had become too pragmatic in his interpretation of possession and also risk adverse, that was the flaw, but we threw everything away with him, and that was the mistake. There was a basis for where we should have been headed, we just needed someone who would have added a little more dynamism to the mix.

It should also be remembered that Van Gaal only had another year left on his contract and seemed very intent on not staying past then. So he was never a long term solution.
 
RedSky said:
Our players havent really clicked either yet. A little bit of patience for Sesko/Mbuemo and Cunha to settle. The signs do suggest we'll have a strong season, just need to cut out the stupid errors at the back that puts unnecessary pressure on us.
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Agreed. The fact that we're putting out good internal numbers despite the new front three not fully playing together in league games, is promsing.
 
Glorio said:
It's similar here and now (ignoring last season which was a car crash). I've not agreed with everything he's done, but if you take a step back and look at our PL performances and what the data tells us, there's a strong argument for patience
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That's just one hell of a large Asterisk...
 
It needs that final push, to make everything click, i.e. taking the chances we create and being more composed at the back (a new GK is hopefully the missing piece for that). Overall, our football in the League has been good
 
MF1138 said:
I think the big issue that resulted from Van Gaal time here was that people were so vehemently against his football that the club totally went the opposite way and it was as if the idea of playing possession based football was the antithesis of what we should be doing.

I think Van Gaal had become too pragmatic in his interpretation of possession and also risk adverse, that was the flaw, but we threw everything away with him, and that was the mistake. There was a basis for where we should have been headed, we just needed someone who would have added a little more dynamism to the mix.

It should also be remembered that Van Gaal only had another year left on his contract and seemed very intent on not staying past then. So he was never a long term solution.
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I'm sure you make a very important point. Just compare how Bayern developed after he left. Heynckes took his system, made a few adjustments (a bit more physicality and directness) and won the treble. And for the following decade Bayern used the core of the team and the philosophy van Gaal had installed there.
 
DJ_21 said:
Well we wouldn’t have gone for Sean Dyche so that’s ridiculous. The system is never the issue and I’m sick of saying it… the profile of player is. We’ve shown we can win with this system and we’ve shown we can tear teams apart with it. Teams around Europe are still winning league titles with a back 3, I don’t wanna hear but there easier leagues because some of the teams are still doing it in Europe and 2 of them got to a final not long ago… the only reason a back 3 as been won once in the last whatever years in the prem is because we rarely have managers at top teams that play that way…
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How do you know the system isnt the issue? There may be other teams that are playing 3421, but are the player instructions the same or similar to what Amorim is asking of United?

And maybe in other leagues there isnt the strength in opposition to expose weaknesses in the system, which could happen in the Prem.

I dont know the answer to those questions, as we haven't seen many play in the same way in the Prem.

Agree when you say "the profile of player is" a problem. We clearly don't have all the ingredients needed currently for Amorims system. Though it is arguable that we don't have all the profiels neded for a 433/4231 (not for a title push anyway), even though i think this squad would be better deployed in that way.
 
We have to give him credit for the transfers. All the transfers , except Sesko, seemed pragmatic, of course time will tell.
If the rumors of Antoine Semenyo are true then Sesko seems to be a backup in case Semenyo transfer could not be completed.

Even if he is fired, the new manager does have a good squad to pick.
 
skc_18 said:
We have to give him credit for the transfers. All the transfers , except Sesko, seemed pragmatic, of course time will tell.
If the rumors of Antoine Semenyo are true then Sesko seems to be a backup in case Semenyo transfer could not be completed.

Even if he is fired, the new manager does have a good squad to pick.
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He's not in charge of transfers
 
skc_18 said:
We have to give him credit for the transfers. All the transfers , except Sesko, seemed pragmatic, of course time will tell.
If the rumors of Antoine Semenyo are true then Sesko seems to be a backup in case Semenyo transfer could not be completed.

Even if he is fired, the new manager does have a good squad to pick.
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He's got very little to do with the transfers, apart from identifying maybe the kind of players we need.
 
I hope to see the day where we take a couple of our glorious chances at 0-0 and see where that leads us. Will it make the rest of the game easier? Will we sit back and inevitably give up the lead? Who knows! I’m encouraged by those stats though. Here’s hoping we keep it up.
 
Love that people reckon we're on the threshold of a big breakthrough based on numbers.

Can only hope they're right!
 
Sandikan said:
Love that people reckon we're on the threshold of a big breakthrough based on numbers.

Can only hope they're right!
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Some of us are just trying to stay positive. No harm in hoping the numbers lead to something good. Can also add to that the fact we’ve looked pretty good in spells of all our PL games too.
 
gaffs said:
How do you know the system isnt the issue? There may be other teams that are playing 3421, but are the player instructions the same or similar to what Amorim is asking of United?

And maybe in other leagues there isnt the strength in opposition to expose weaknesses in the system, which could happen in the Prem.

I dont know the answer to those questions, as we haven't seen many play in the same way in the Prem.

Agree when you say "the profile of player is" a problem. We clearly don't have all the ingredients needed currently for Amorims system. Though it is arguable that we don't have all the profiels neded for a 433/4231 (not for a title push anyway), even though i think this squad would be better deployed in that way.
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Because we failed in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. Is that system an issue also?
 
Jev said:
We never failed like we did last season, though. Not even close.
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We also never changed system half way through a season before with players who aren’t use to it. We’ve always played 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 ever since Moyes was appointed so we should have been very confident in it
 
Sandikan said:
Love that people reckon we're on the threshold of a big breakthrough based on numbers.

Can only hope they're right!
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Tbf, there's one thing thats been consistent for the last 8 years - the underlying numbers have never liked us (regardless of where we are in the league). This is the first time, they're in our favour.
 
DJ_21 said:
Because we failed in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. Is that system an issue also?
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I wasn't specifically talking about United in a 3421, i was talking about the 3421 in general.

Of course, it can work it you have a superior group of players to other teams, like the example im sure you know, but what if your XI are relatively evenly matched to that of a 433/4231? Does the 2 in midfield leave you more vulnerable? Can the space be exposed behind the wing backs be exposed? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe you do?

Yes, there has been one example of a team winning the league with that system in the PL. Though if you look at that Chelsea team in 2016/17, they just had a better group of players than everyone else and a pretty good manager in Conte. And most importantly, those players that fit that system very well - Kante, Matic, Fabregas, David Luiz, Costa, Hazard, Willian, Marco Alonso and even Moses being adapted to wing back.

The point of any system is to get the best out of your best players and cover for the weaknesses in other areas.
Specifically, for a 3421 it should be to make the very most of your wingbacks, as thy will often be the players that are the overload.

But as you brought up United in a 3421...
Should United be playing a system that relies so heavily on wingbacks, when one is a young inconsistent newbie to the league, and the other a recently converted winger? Last season, we didnt even have. a wing back at the club.
And a system that shows the vulnerabilities of having two thirty somethings in a two man midfield?
 
DJ_21 said:
Because we failed in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. Is that system an issue also?
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Huh?? Seriously? Failures of past managers wont make Amorim a genius.
Failures of past manager's system doesn't make Amorim's system awesome.

What kind of logic is this?
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Huh?? Seriously? Failures of past managers wont make Amorim a genius.
Failures of past manager's system doesn't make Amorim's system awesome.

What kind of logic is this?
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This is used by Goldbrigde all the time. Tells you more about the logic.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Huh?? Seriously? Failures of past managers wont make Amorim a genius.
Failures of past manager's system doesn't make Amorim's system awesome.

What kind of logic is this?
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Nobody said that it will make him a genius? It’s very straight logic… people keep whinging about a system not working when we wasn’t exactly successful using the other systems under previous managers.
 
Raoul said:
100%

When the numbers and the eye test converge, its only a matter of time until we see significant improvement. Remember, that the below is without Sesko and Cunha having started contributing goals yet. Once they do, we are going to be battering a few opponents.

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And people are saying the system isn’t working… them stats are a perfect example of the players getting use to the system.
 
Absolute_Shambles said:
I think and I stand on this side of argument...

1. Amorim system or style of play is not bad or good.

The main problem is in PL his style of play or the system is easily countered. This is the main point a lot of people are missing. The Amorim in or Amorim Out camp.
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On the contrary, I think everyone recognizes that Amorimball (system, formation, tactics - whatever you want to call it) worked in Portugal because the competition was at a much lower standard. They then say it isn’t working in the PL and that’s why it’s a bad system, not that it’s inherently a bad (or blunted) system. We all know this formation has been played to better effect in this very league, it’s just that Amorim himself has to this point been unable to make it work.
 
Absolute_Shambles said:
I think and I stand on this side of argument...

1. Amorim system or style of play is not bad or good.

The main problem is in PL his style of play or the system is easily countered. This is the main point a lot of people are missing. The Amorim in or Amorim Out camp.

We can play with 6 strikers. No problem. But will it hack in PL? That's the main question. We can even play without defence, no where in Football rules that you need defenders by MUST, but who does it?

So the main question should be ' is what we are trying to do has any resemblance of success? Especially in the environment we are in ( PL ).

People need to know every other team needs to win games. Not Man United alone. So other teams are plotting on how to counter us + how to inflict defeat on us.

Ange in Spurs is a good example, he was very attacking. But in PL in elite level football he was countered easily. Not that his system or ideas were factually wrong. It's just that his opponents were more better in neutralizing his ideas and his system was unable to inflict damage on the opponent, so eventually he lost more games than he won.

No system or idea is better than the other on paper, but some system or ideas won't work in this environment.

Same as football players. Take Sancho or Antony to South African League he will set it on fire put them on PL, they meet elite footballers they are unable to perform. Not that Antony is a man with one leg, no. But what is needed here he doesn't possess.

As I said previously, For Amorim to survive he NEEDS to change his ways. PL will not change to accommodate his system because every other team wants to win.
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:+1:
 
Absolute_Shambles said:
I think and I stand on this side of argument...

1. Amorim system or style of play is not bad or good.

The main problem is in PL his style of play or the system is easily countered. This is the main point a lot of people are missing. The Amorim in or Amorim Out camp.

We can play with 6 strikers. No problem. But will it hack in PL? That's the main question. We can even play without defence, no where in Football rules that you need defenders by MUST, but who does it?

So the main question should be ' is what we are trying to do has any resemblance of success? Especially in the environment we are in ( PL ).

People need to know every other team needs to win games. Not Man United alone. So other teams are plotting on how to counter us + how to inflict defeat on us.

Ange in Spurs is a good example, he was very attacking. But in PL in elite level football he was countered easily. Not that his system or ideas were factually wrong. It's just that his opponents were more better in neutralizing his ideas and his system was unable to inflict damage on the opponent, so eventually he lost more games than he won.

No system or idea is better than the other on paper, but some system or ideas won't work in this environment.

Same as football players. Take Sancho or Antony to South African League he will set it on fire put them on PL, they meet elite footballers they are unable to perform. Not that Antony is a man with one leg, no. But what is needed here he doesn't possess.

As I said previously, For Amorim to survive he NEEDS to change his ways. PL will not change to accommodate his system because every other team wants to win.
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I dont think his system is bad in a way it can be countered easily and see us lose a lot of points - I think that's broadly reflected in the stats from our first 3 games. Wel see more by gameweek 10 or so with a better sample size.

On Ange, I think he had a bad system from gameweek one. It was going ho one touch football with a reliance on VDV to bail them out every time they were countered.
 
Watching how Leverkusen dealt with ETH decisively is a reminder of how a modern big club should operate in the present time. Amorim cant take us finish 15th again or losing the cup final in pathetic way again, theyre damaging to club reputation, brand, and income. The higher ups need to reign him in, telling him that his system didnt work, and he has to tweak some few things else hed soon found himself out of job. Amorim needs to understand that Manchester United is bigger than him.
 
peller said:
Watching how Leverkusen dealt with ETH decisively is a reminder of how a modern big club should operate in the present time. Amorim cant take us finish 15th again or losing the cup final in pathetic way again, theyre damaging to club reputation, brand, and income. The higher ups need to reign him in, telling him that his system didnt work, and he has to tweak some few things else hed soon found himself out of job. Amorim needs to understand that Manchester United is bigger than him.
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Except that ten Hag's situation has little to do with how his team performed and everything to do with his personality, behavior, and relationship with the club hierarchy; and his attempts to route the club's transfers through an agency he was affiliated with.

No one, not even the most kneejerk posters here, proposed United sack Amorim just 3 games after he took the job last November.
 
gaffs said:
Nor do people like to be told to "Have a day off mate". Or the little pat on the head from the poster, in the form of "you seem like a thoroughly decent chap", before going on to call me a "man baby".

Him telling me he is having a bad week as some weird way of justifying, apologizing, insulting and continuing to rant on, has nothing to do with the football convo.
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On the contrary, I was saying that you weren't one of the 'man babies', and that's why I apologised - because I was making a wider point and didn't want to lump you in with some of the more extreme posters. I think I need to retract my earlier statement about you seeming like a decent chap...
 
peller said:
The higher ups need to reign him in, telling him that his system didnt work, and he has to tweak some few things else hed soon found himself out of job. Amorim needs to understand that Manchester United is bigger than him.
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No, higher ups shouldn't be instructing managers on how to set up. If they find themselves in a position where they're having to do that, they're the ones who need to tweak their approach.
 
Halftrack said:
No, higher ups shouldn't be instructing managers on how to set up. If they find themselves in a position where they're having to do that, they're the ones who need to tweak their approach.
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To an extent they should. There should be a set strategy from the club and the managers job should be to implement that. Of course it shouldn't normally go so far as to dictate which players to use, but at least the broad approach should be defined.
 
peller said:
The higher ups need to reign him in, telling him that his system didnt work, and he has to tweak some few things else hed soon found himself out of job. Amorim needs to understand that Manchester United is bigger than him.
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I assume in this scenario Amorim gets to tell them how to do their job too?
 
stefan92 said:
To an extent they should. There should be a set strategy from the club and the managers job should be to implement that. Of course it shouldn't normally go so far as to dictate which players to use, but at least the broad approach should be defined.
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They can demand results and a style of football that keeps people interested in watching the team. Anything beyond that on the pitch is not their expertise and they should shut up.
 
erikcred said:
They can demand results and a style of football that keeps people interested in watching the team. Anything beyond that on the pitch is not their expertise and they should shut up.
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That line of thinking just got EtH sacked and isn't how most clubs operate. And United made pretty clear they are moving to a "standard model" by giving Amorim the title of head coach.
 
stefan92 said:
To an extent they should. There should be a set strategy from the club and the managers job should be to implement that. Of course it shouldn't normally go so far as to dictate which players to use, but at least the broad approach should be defined.
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And the club should hire a manager that fits the strategy. That's not to say the footballing hierarchy, including the manager, shouldn't cooperate and be open to input, but the manager should have the final word on any and all questions regarding tactics and selections.

If you find yourself handing the manager ultimatums over their tactical decisions, you've hire the wrong manager and should probably just sack them and find someone that better aligns with your club's strategy and vision.
 
Halftrack said:
And the club should hire a manager that fits the strategy. That's not to say the footballing hierarchy, including the manager, shouldn't cooperate and be open to input, but the manager should have the final word on any and all questions regarding tactics and selections.

If you find yourself handing the manager ultimatums over their tactical decisions, you've hire the wrong manager and should probably just sack them and find someone that better aligns with your club's strategy and vision.
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True, worded this way I agree.
 
I have no clue about football tactics. But to me it 3-4-3 seems to be one of them formations that's hard to defend against but also hard to implement - everyone has to be really good at what they do in their position. Which means we can't have anyone being carried by others. So it can be a good long term system but very painful short term. High floor high ceiling.
 
tenpoless said:
I have no clue about football tactics. But to me it 3-4-3 seems to be one of them formations that's hard to defend against but also hard to implement - everyone has to be really good at what they do in their position. Which means we can't have anyone being carried by others. So it can be a good long term system but very painful short term. High floor high ceiling.
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This suggests a low floor.
 
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