True. Hopefully Pep overthinks it and starts Haaland in midfield or something.Let's at least see the results against City and Chelsea before we hold those results against him.
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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Plenty of managers have flooded the midfield since Amorim joined. The most annoying probably being Forest and Newcastle doing it in the same month. The fading definitely has a mental aspect to it which I agree with, however, that is part of the coaches job. I suspect, using a tactic that constantly restricts our attackers and has been consistently getting exploited doesn't help ones confidence. As doesn't half the comments he comes out with nor working for a manager who currently is the worst manager United have had.
Players are human beings, fans like to say player X is lazy, gives up, doesn't give their all etc. When the reality is just like any other employee in a workplace, a player can be motivated or demotivated by the environment, those around them and their manager. Some managers can inspire players some can't. So far Amorim hasn't shown that he can motivate these players. I struggle to see how a Manager can criticise a player or demand more from them, when that very Manager has lowered the standard for United managers lower than was previously thought possible.
All this Amorim analysis still relying on tired throwbacks to last season are really boring. It’s the Amorim 25/26 thread, how about we discuss the performances this season? Do you see unmotivated players out there in the first few games of the season? Because I sure don’t.
I think if the new keeper plays, has a few positive touches and we start well, we stand a good chance.
The confidence a competent keeper will bring will be massive.
The confidence a competent keeper will bring will be massive.
Amorim didn't join us in the summer...his tenure did not start 4 games ago...in fact, those "tired throwbacks" provide us a nice slate to compare to and if you're seeing similar deficiencies to the performances last season then yes, its relevant to rely on past performances.
And to the unmotivated question. I see players who do not look comfortable in the system, don't look comfortable with the tactics. Players who the manager can't really get up for the majority of a match. To Amorim, based on his comments at Grimsby, he sees players who are telling him what they think of his tactics.
I'm also looking forward to his fifth ever game in charge of us.
I watched Ghana play Mali yesterday, one of the worst football matches I have ever seen with nearly 0 clear cut chances before the 70th minute.
As horrible as we may be at times, I think we have been a lot more entertaining so far under Amorim so I will give him that.
As horrible as we may be at times, I think we have been a lot more entertaining so far under Amorim so I will give him that.
Yes, our confidence is wafer thin - unsurprisingly. It's unfortunate that we have two such tricky fixtures because we could do with a couple of comfortable wins to rebuild belief and confidence. On the other hand, if we were to come out of those games with 6 points, or 4 (or even 2 if the performances are good), that would be a real tonic. I also pray that Lammens comes in and immediately instills confidence (a bloody big ask tbf) because I'm sure that part of our brittle confidence has been the knowledge that all of the team's hard work could be undone in a second by one of our ridiculous keepers.
To be honest with you, I’m not technically minded enough to notice these things. But people have pointed out that the shape does change (especially in pressing), but as I said I’m not smart enough to notice.
Let's at least see the results against City and Chelsea before we hold those results against him.
In their heads we're already at 4 points after 5 games.
He's absolutely right to say that this is 25-26 thread though. As you rightly point out emphasising the continuity to last season is valid if there is no improvement, but when there are obvious improvements it feels a little negative.
And why choose the Grimsby match, when it was a second string in a lesser competition (and was an absolute banana skin of a game in horrendous conditions to play so early in the season) as evidence whilst ignoring the comments made after the 3 league games?
But it makes sense to compare what he has improved compared to last season.
And as I see it the team creates more chances (still isn't scoring them, but that should be easy to improve as this is more down to the players and their luck than to anything else), but otherwise still is similarly vulnerable as it was last season.
The latter doesn't surprise me and while it worries me a bit I already said some weeks ago that I believe the best way for United to be successful this season is to outscore the opposition. That has to start now.
4 points from 3In their heads we're already at 4 points after 5 games.
Don’t worry, so much happens all at once that it is hard to see all of the manager’s intentions, even for a football analyst or coach.
The question I have is this: when we lose control in a match, is it because the players stop doing certain things like stepping up and being aggressive, or is the coach failing to make an adjustment?
The coach can’t control everything. When you are up 3-0 in the 70th minute against Coventry and they score three goals, that’s not the coach. Going 2-0 down against Grimsby was not the coach.
The team has to grow mentally, learn how to manage the games, learn what to do and not do in certain scenarios. We have added better players, but we haven’t improved in those aspects yet.
Every time we try to play proactive attacking football, we struggle with defensive balance.
You don’t have to press for 90 minutes, it is almost impossible to do that.
We have heard the same things or variations for years now, the team has to grow mentally especially. Yet its nearly an entirely new starting 11 from 3 years ago, so is it really the players? As for 'learning to control' games, Amorim's system is explicitly not about possession and hence its tough to control the games. Being outnumbered in midfield makes it even harder. Sure players need to adapt, buy they also need to be well coached and set up to succeed.
I agree with your first point. However, I'd say instead that its not a binary thing. The team have started to create more chances, however, its still early in the season and as I pointed out we were near the top of the xg and chance created charts 5 games into last season. That's just fact. Highlighting that the CAMs are still isolated, we still have defenders back marking air, despite having 5 defenders we still concede poor goals, dysfunctional modfield no matter who plays there are my observations. Just as those who point to the XG as their reason to be positive, for me, I expect to see a better jump in performances and results based on the extreme underperformance of Amorim last season as well as the new signings that we have brought in. I want to see a dramatic difference from last season to this season, to show that last season was an aberration from Amorim and not the norm. I haven't seen signs of that yet.
Now that isn't that I'm looking for this team to get top 4, destroy top half teams etc. I believe a good manager gets this squad into top 8, therefore I expect to see the form of a top 8 team. I also expect a Manchester United manager to play in an entertaining manner. Which is why, despite probably being able to get us into top 8, I wouldn't want a David Moyes back here. Last season's form is a measuring stick, I don't expect to see a small improvement from last year but a significant improvement. So far, we have not even realy seen a slight improvement from last season.
I mean that’s just factually untrue.
We keep seeing the same issues, don’t we? The midfield issue does not stem from the two man midfield, it is no different than under Ten Hag.
It is about the players doing certain things like the cb’s stepping into midfield or the backline playing high enough when we press.
Amorim likes to press with a pentagon shape, if the backline doesn’t step up, we have an open space in between defence and the pentagon.
What we see is an inconsistent application of those principles. The team as a whole needs to understand when to press and when not to. It won’t work with one or two stragglers or mavericks not following instructions.
Factually true. People point to the Arsenal game as some sign when we had very similar performances vs Arsenal and City under Amorim last year (in a few games where we were the underdog). We beat Fulham away under Amorim last year. We got further than the 2nd round of the Carabao cup last year. We scrapped by Burnley a promoted team at home. Those to me aren't signs of major improvement (and major improvement after our worst season by a mile in the premier league so the bar is pretty low). The performances vs burnley and fulham were decent, bearing in mind last season we had scatterings of decent performances and moments of good play in matches under Amorim. Which happens under every manager. The only real stat indicator is xg and chances created. Lets see if that continues, again, we were in the exact same position with xg last season and that didn't last.
I don't think it's realistic to expect a massive improvement immediately when new signings are still getting up to speed (the new keeper is yet to even play), and with a really tough opening fixture. But my eyes, and the stats (which whether you want to admit it or not are an improvement on the same period last season - when the team was settled and coming off the back of an FA Cup win rather than a 15th place finish and a lost European final), do show significant reasons for positivity and hope.
No, we didn't have performances like that last season. I haven't seen us dominate a rival in such a front-foot performance for years.
Good post, completely agree.
I do think we lack leadership in this team and experience, and that's the main reason why things often fall apart very quickly.
Two different views. Anyway, the next month or two will see whether either of us are correct. Although I wouldn't be surprised if we are in a position where we haven't really done enough to say there has been a proper improvement nor done enough for him to get sacked.
Look at the match day thread of the match vs Burnley. While is was 2-2 it was almost as if many were watching another match, or simply just looking at the score, as soon as the penalty became a possibility the silence during those several minutes and after when Bruno scored relative to the moaning and “he has to go after this” while we were 2-2 said a lot
I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong.
Yeah, it is interesting that minds are changed on a penalty decision but this is where we are at... its a results business.
Unfortunately, he has used up all the grace last season and its knives out this season.
Although, we cannot continue to live on a game to game, sack or not sack.
I mean we stuck by Ten Hag to no avail, will this be the same? I wouldn't sack him based on 1/2 results though, it would be because of his poor tenure.
I have always been biased towards our managers and backed them longer than I should, same goes with Amorim, he is under review for next 10 games.
a lot of that defensive issues mentioned in there is the inability or fearfulness of the CB's to step into those defensive gaps and press a forward receiving the ball in between the lines thus allowing them to turn an attack teh back three
You missed his point.
I honestly believe that despite the club backing him he’s on thin ice. I also don’t think he has the fortitude to continually weather pressure this season if we continue to disappoint.
Something will give eventually. He needs not just results but consistency of performances which produce results, and he needs that within his belief system because he will not change to seek those performances through a different approach. He might tweak things, but I’ve seen no clear evidence of that.
As I’ve said before I like the guy but I don’t think he will survive the season. I do think we’ll finish higher than last season, but that should not be a yardstick with which to measure him as Manchester United manager.
Something will give eventually. He needs not just results but consistency of performances which produce results, and he needs that within his belief system because he will not change to seek those performances through a different approach. He might tweak things, but I’ve seen no clear evidence of that.
As I’ve said before I like the guy but I don’t think he will survive the season. I do think we’ll finish higher than last season, but that should not be a yardstick with which to measure him as Manchester United manager.
My point was that it appeared that many had already made their minds up about Amorim and, while disappointed is the wrong word, I’ll say they were not as happy as I or others were with the last minute win. I have seen enough positives to still be Amorim in.. although there are a few “buts” eg he can’t keep playing Bruno & Casemiro in cm and if he does that’s on him. Yes we will argue he didn’t get the CM he wanted. But that’s football, sometimes you have to wait 6 months or a season to get your target. He got a GK, two 10s and a striker. So now he’ll have to adapt for at least 6 months.
Although next year he will need at least two CM. Maybe Gallagher in the winter window and Baleba in the summer
The lack of pace and/or agility of the CCB's (Maguire or de Ligt) and the LCB (Shaw or Martinez) are the main culprits here. Unless, we get a pacey and strong CCB and an equally adept LCB the problem will continue to exist. Having those players and a high line will leave us susceptible to counter-attacks and that is the reason they play deep and there is a huge chasm between the CB's and the CM's, who push high up. I think it's a personnel issue and can only be corrected in the transfer market.
I agree.. there are plenty of fans who want us to lose so that they can say I told you so... or to be proven right. I want Amorim to do well and succeed at United.
I am very careful with these positives because every manager, after pre season we tend to "play well" without the results and then that disappears, which is why I want to see a 10 game sample size.
With Bruno, I think too much is being made of this and he can play that position, his partner is an issue for me. However; as a manager you can't get all your signings, you have to adapt.
Slot wanted a Zubimendi type player as DM but they didn't get one and played Gravernberch there.. so he has to find solutions within.
I do agree with the club though... if the man they want is not attainable, no point spending money on someone that will need to be replaced for the short term.
Yes that is what I think too. The pressing shape with five players absolutely requires the cb’s to step up when needed.
I saw Virgil van Dijk doing this for Holland, and we were playing 433. Go figure.
Rio mentioned that one time the inability or non willingness of the CB's to step out into space....you can't play that system if EVERY defender of the back 5 aren't willing to step and press
we'd be better off using Heaven and Yoro...while inexperienced....both are athletic enough to cover space then throw in Shaw as the back 3
i'd move Maz into the holding role next to Bruno as he's way more mobile than Ugarte or Cas
The Maz in midfield idea is intriguing.
the guys played like 60+ times in the midfield during his career so he's not foreign to it ....this is the case of JOS or when fergie put one of the twins in midfield due to lack of bodies available
Tempo control, the only shorthand term I can think of to describe the concept, is crucial to becoming a top club once a again. During much of the Ferguson era we actually won quite a few matches 1-0 or 2-0 and never got blown off the pitch, the only exception being a bad loss to boro (maybe 4-1?) during the VDS era. We were always in the game because we controlled the tempo even if we found it hard to create good chances. I just want everyone here to understand that controlling midfield, which is how you control tempo, doesn't create chances itself but it creates the conditions in which a a half-chance for a proficient forward becomes the decisive moment -- Moments FC -- of the match.
It's coming up to a year and he's not fixed it yet. So maybe...
Central defenders can’t compensate for a ropey midfield. Another nonsense take from Rio.