We played more of a bagel/donut formation than the ones you mentioned. And it showed
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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20 weeks.
It was always set up in a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 though. Them 2 formations are all we’ve used under all previous managers. ETH went mad when he tried playing Mount and Bruno as 8s with Casemiro sitting.
This is why I'm not too fussed with what happens. We have already suffered 12 years. If Amorim's system works out, great! If it doesn't, and he ends up in Saudi, then great. As long as we don't keep him if he messes up. I think we made a mistake not getting an Enrique type manager. I have always said, get a simple tactically astute, attacking coach who can adapt 2-3 systems. What we have right now is a system savant. Sounds really apathetic, but I'm betting he will be out this year. All we can do in this situation is hope for the best whilst expecting the worst.
I distinctly recall playing a Brötchen formation, which can’t accurately be represented with whole numbers.
Think the technical term was playing a Berliner. Soft all around with jelly in the middle
My issue is that there are things in football you can't ignore as a top team regardless of what formation or style you want to play.
You need to have good midfielders that can handle the ball and you need to have a solid goalkeeper. If you're only playing 2 of them, physicality becomes even more important.
442, 433, 451 or 343 don't make a difference if your midfielders can't buildup and you have a dodgy keeper that lets in soft goals.
Amorim needs to understand that this is not Portugal where you can send the ball to Gyökeres and let him bully CBs, we need to be able to sustain an attack and recycle the ball.
Everyone wants a Baleba, I think we need a Stiller (ideally both) more.
Our CBs need to be more courageous and step up to win the early ball more often (which only Maguire does) otherwise this whole plan won't work.
I still have faith in Amorim but moreso in the fact that our players can play a 451 if we do end up changing managers.
You need to have good midfielders that can handle the ball and you need to have a solid goalkeeper. If you're only playing 2 of them, physicality becomes even more important.
442, 433, 451 or 343 don't make a difference if your midfielders can't buildup and you have a dodgy keeper that lets in soft goals.
Amorim needs to understand that this is not Portugal where you can send the ball to Gyökeres and let him bully CBs, we need to be able to sustain an attack and recycle the ball.
Everyone wants a Baleba, I think we need a Stiller (ideally both) more.
Our CBs need to be more courageous and step up to win the early ball more often (which only Maguire does) otherwise this whole plan won't work.
I still have faith in Amorim but moreso in the fact that our players can play a 451 if we do end up changing managers.
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Three 10s, however, and you’ve got yourself a winning hand. But the real kicker, the next step in tactical evolution, is to play with four 10s at the same time. Ruben doesn’t have the balls even though he knows it’s the future.
The weak midfield will be a massive problem, I just don’t get why its not getting addressed as it should be the number 1 area we should be prioritising. I hope I get proved wrong.
I guess the only hope was that having a goal threat and higher press would cover the midfield issues.
tbh we should of sold Fernandez for the silly money and used that to reconstruct the midfield. I feel he doesn't work in the wide 10 positions and he's not an 8.
Last season, we lost every battle in midfield against any half decent PL teams. Instead of addressing this we put Bruno + 1 in midfield this season. Is this the answer?
Any sane people would have thought that we should play 3 in midfield or improve on the 2 midfielder that we are going to play.
None of Bruno, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount, Case are suitable to play in midfield 2.
Any sane people would have thought that we should play 3 in midfield or improve on the 2 midfielder that we are going to play.
None of Bruno, Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount, Case are suitable to play in midfield 2.
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The 4-2-3-1 would have been perfect if Ten Hag had simply prioritised positional discipline for the back 6. Instead, he would commit everybody but the 2 cbs and the deepest midfielder in attack. That is footballing suicide.
Vast majority of top teams play 4-2-3-1/4-3-3. Actually the only top European team I know that has a back 3 formation is Inter and it is a crazily attacking formation. Everybody else plays 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.
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Don’t even think Sir Alex won that one? Or for a more modern comparison has Guardiola?
This is what I don't really understand. Beyond the sentiment, I don't see why Amorim pushed so hard to convince him to stay when at the same time he would have known we were targeting two number 10's (providing we actually had some sort of plan for this window). We have convinced a player to stay who we were offered £100M for, without really knowing where to play him. It feels a slight clusterfeck to me.
Either keep Bruno and sign one number 10 and a much needed CM. Or sell Bruno, sign two number 10's and a much needed CM. Either sounds more logical to me than what we have done.
We didn't play great and yet should still have beaten Everton, and would have were it not for one of the daftest own goals I've seen in a long time. Felt sorry for Amad because he'd actually done a great job of initially getting back to make the interception. Not really much you can do about what came next.
Players are at the end of a very intense period of training and matches, playing against a horrible team on a horrible pitch.
We're going to beat arsenal in the opening fixture, I'm convinced of it.
Players are at the end of a very intense period of training and matches, playing against a horrible team on a horrible pitch.
We're going to beat arsenal in the opening fixture, I'm convinced of it.
Correct. Absolutely highlights the raw potential of Amorim.
I agree, I think turning down £100 mil for a player who will be 31 this season was silly. I get he's a great leader and a great player but it would of gone along way too helping rebuild the team.
As you said it doesn't help that we don't know where to play him as evident this pre season. I think he's pretty much played every position possible.
Amorin says he needs to play further up but he's not a striker and doesn't have the attributes to play in the wide 10 positions. Maybe you can play him as an advanced midfielder but then you have to have a really quality number 6 and possible have one of the CBs step up.
Also the elephant in the room to me is that, he's great creator but he plays to many wayward excitable Hollywood balls and gives the ball away far too much. Evident again this pre season.
And you’re forgetting the team that won the German league 2 seasons ago. And inter who got to the CL final 2 times in the last few years
Imagine almost beating Everton. Who could’ve dreamed of this two years ago?
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In 20 years time he could dwarf the collections of both at this rate.
At least in the first few matches of his final season with us, we were often set up defensively in a 4-2-4. In the build up it was more of a 3-4-3.
It was one of the reasons I was worried about him joining. Having a Portuguese coach with an all Portuguese back room team who just so happened to also be a Sporting legend, I just didn’t see a way he wouldn’t have some level of bias towards Bruno.
He fought tooth and nail for Bruno to stay despite not being a natural fit in his preferred system. Yet he had no problem canning Rashford and Garnacho who weren’t fits for it.
Of course Bruno is a bit different because he performed excellently to end the season but this is about building a team rather than having a setup where one player shines. His intention was clearly to upgrade the wide AM positions which means he’s banking on Bruno being a CM this season. I’m sorry but that is just irresponsible coaching and planning.
It’s almost as difficult to understand as the decision to retain the manager this summer.
People kept saying we'd sign players that work regardless of the manager, like a striker, keeper or midfielder. Yet here we are with two 10s and a LWB
The issue isn't really Bruno. We know where he works best. The issue is with United/ Ruben signing an extra number 10 when we should've brought in a first team CM.
Should've come down to Cunha or Mbeumo.
Should've come down to Cunha or Mbeumo.
We will get beaten in the first few games and suddenly we will panic buy and overpay to buy a CM and GK. Sounds familiar?
I mentioned Inter. That Leverkusen team got absolutely destroyed the next season with the same core group of players and same formation.
Absolutely destroyed? They finished second.
Wouldn’t say they got destroyed. They finished 2nd which is still decent using that system. We could argue all day and disagree with each other but we both know the system isn’t the issue. It’s the personnel and quality of players we have in the positions.
The system is the issue in our case though, or at least one of them.
Not because it's necessarily a bad system, but a bad fit for us. It exposed our weaknesses and gaps instead of trying to work around them
Didn't he also change it up in several games last season? While I'm not a big fan of 3 at the back, the bigger problem is that Amorim has shown a lack of ability to implement it at this level. The team almost always looks like a disjointed mess, and it's not just in attack but also at the back. Other better managers could make this team look better with the same formation, but that's not United's problem now.
The system in and of itself is not a bad system. Inter have shown that it can be a hugely productive and effective system. But the way Ruben Amorim is implementing it is a terrible fit for our group of players.
Another one for my ignore list. Thanks for identifying yourself with your shit sarcastic post
Yea i said that the other day but was met with a chorus of 'the middle CB will step into midfield making it a 3' and 'we played 433 under ETH and were poor'
I’m sure there have been replies to this that I haven’t read, but I think the problem is that in an ideal world you want to maximise the amount of time that each player is making an actual contribution to the match. Either by doing something, or by stopping an opponent doing something. 3 at the back almost seems to guarantee that for long spells of the match you have these 3 doing the same as 2 would do, i.e. one of them is superfluous- not effecting the game in the way an extra midfielder would. I think the theory is that it frees up the 2 wingbacks, but to be honest, in a good team playing an attacking 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 the fullbacks are doing the same as in Amorim’s 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2, whatever you want to call it), it feels like a waste of a player.
Absolutely this. To keep persisting with the same midfield set up and we continued to get overrun. I genuinely can’t remember the last game we really had dominance or proper control of the midfield. I don’t think it’s entirely on the players as our CM options have all shown they are capable in playing a CM role.
Whether it’s the lack of attributes of the players in these positions, or they set up of the system, I doubt we’ll ever know because if he doesn’t change something by the start of the PL, we are going to be pretty much where we finished last season and he won’t last long enough for us to find the answer.
And, you end up complementing a midfield that already isn’t great a passing and close control, by adding ANOTHER player who isn’t great at passing/control.
Key point is the formation really doesn't matter that much compared to the style of play - all these teams, and also others people haven't mentioned like Palace or Brentford when they chose to use it under Frank, use variations of 343 with more direct football. The only real modern example, that I can think of, of high possession in this setup is Tuchel with Chelsea, which made sense given they had very strong defenders and CMs at that time and quite a weak attack (Mount, Havertz, Werner started the CL final vs City) i.e. playing to the strength of the team. All the high possession coaches have become more direct, Gasperini included given we're talking about variations of 343, across all formations because pressing has become too good.
We needed to sort the midfield as a priority but we ended up signing attackers. Even now we are in a saga for a striker...