Maguire is definitely captain material
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
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I don't think United half-ass rebuilds, the squad has changed massively even since Ole was manager. The problem is that our rebuilds are incoherent.
Today I have seen De Zerbi linked to United, as well as Fabregas, on top of people like Xavi, Glazner, and Southgate.
If even half of those names are true it shows, again, there's no plan. None of these coaches approach football in remotely the same way. With more than a one, its difficult to see how their ideals on football could a) make the most of the players we have and b) slowly evolve the squad to something better.
When Ralf Rangnick was here he said that the first thing we needed to do was decide, as a club, how we want to play and then everything goes from that.
Its such an obvious statement and yet it seems to play no part in the club's approach to recruiting. We just grab the biggest name coach available and then set the whole thing up to recruit 'his players.'
Any sensible shortlist of potential managers would be based around people who've shown they can use 4231/433, as that is clearly what not only suits our first team but also the types of players our academy produces (no surprise given our legacy of wingers). The fact that's still not happening gives me very little hope for the future even if, as is warranted by performances, Amorim is sacked.
I agree, my first thought when i heard that quote is that just doesn't make sense because you've only won 30% of your games here, and very few of them have been convincing outside of Europe.
I keep saying it, I want to support the guy but there's no evidence whatsoever that his system works or that he can turn this around. Even on the rare occasions we do win, it's a constant struggle or a nervy win.
I hope we smash Sunderland tomorrow and get some confidence flowing back in the team but I don't see the Old Trafford crowd, which has the patience of a saint, putting up with another bad result.
I can't believe he's still bringing up that Arsenal game.
Arsenal were utterly woeful that day and remain a club that have achieved the square root of feck all, but they still won.
I'm starting to really find him annoying now, he genuinely just seems like a delusional Villas-Boas MK2.
Arsenal were utterly woeful that day and remain a club that have achieved the square root of feck all, but they still won.
I'm starting to really find him annoying now, he genuinely just seems like a delusional Villas-Boas MK2.
Not suited to the PL. He didn't show it in 23-24 either. The PL goals came in a flurry with barren periods either side.
Wouldn't be the first Serie A striker to fail here.
I know. It´s absolutely pitiful to keep dragging that up.
After Calafiori scored, Arsenal were content to sit back and not commit players forward.
He might have got something from the game if he had been more attack minded and made better subs.
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Don't forget that it was an Arsenal who'd had their squad barely fit for the game (Declan Rice was notably battling an illness, Gyokeres and the other debutants still settling in). It was a game at home when Arsenal were at their weakest - yet we STILL managed to lose (to an extremely predictable set-piece - the same way we lost at the Emirates last season). I find it incredibly difficult to support managers that have zero penchant to adapt to the league and the opposition. Hell, even Ange managed to adapt and win an European final the same way. That was Ten Hag's undoing, and it would also be Amorim's.
does he get the sack if we lose against sunderland? International break, very likely loss coming back out of it. To keep him a bit longer when things are just complete shit is ridiculous. Of course i always believe once you get to a stage where a loss can mean possibly sacking the manager it is just time to move on anyways.
Agree. The win rate has to be considered when Amorim making this kind of argument. At normal win rate for club of our stature (50+%), perhaps we can understand his stance. Here our win rate especially in the league is unacceptable, coupling with bottom half defeat rate. The tenure as a whole is not working. It’s not just bad luck. ETH faced much worse injury crisis, and injury crisis was a reoccurring theme with previous managers too. Didn’t make him and this worst Man Utd in the history to finish in bottom half.
The same logic can easily be applied to United (who dominated the game in every statistical category bar one). For instance, Sesko had just been signed, Martinez wasn't available, Mazraoui wasn't available etc. Even pundits who are consistenly negative about all things Untied were generally impressed with how we played in the game.
I can't listen to him any more. I get totally irrational about it.
Its the ultimate emperor's new clothes. Once you realise he's just blagging and look at the reality of the situation you see how ridiculous it is.
Still holding onto the heroic 0-1 home loss.
Commemorative t-shirt to celebrate Amorims best performance to be released in the Magestore this weekend!
I agree. But at least he was somewhat servisable in 23/24. Last season, a traffic cone uptop would have been as useful - at least if positioned in our half the traffic cone would have kept onside!
I dont understand this line of thinking though. How do Ineos lose less face by watching us lose over and over again whilst taking no action? By failing to admit they made the wrong appointment, they're making themselves look worse, not better.
Also wouldn't be the first United player to play better elsewhere.
He was never great for us, but at least looked like a prospect before Amorim neutered any attack we had. Barren spells for a youngster don't change that.
And Amorim has better players. He has a much improved back line for a start. Yoro didnt play under ETH. MDL was just getting started and Maz was playing well in the first few months of the season, as an orthodox right back. Now Maz is essentially as rotational player as he doesnt suit RCB or RWB.
They'd have way more leeway and less expectations because they were cheap in the first place. When you bring in a player for 70-80m you'd naturally have way more expectations from them. No one will say standards have dropped for signing cheap players. Every club has those signings.
I don't think they see it through the lens of causal fans. Its all about business for Ratcliffe. Make it to Europe and all is well because of the financial windfall that club will receive. If he thinks we have no chance then I suspect he could make a change, but we're not there at this moment.
Why the board insisting to keep him is beyond me. It's more than clear he is not the right guy for the long term. His tactical knowledge and flexibility is below 0. There is no playstyle. Player forms are declining under his management. His win ratio is abysmal. There are no signs of improvements. It's all meaningless words. Even those lucky streaks are not granted to him.
We’d a big reliance on the promoted teams for a portion of our points last year. I mean everyone does but us even moreso.
If we’re in a bad position post Liverpool (I.e. losing to Sunderland), it’s only natural you start looking at the fixtures and see where the points are going to come from.
Last year we had the likes of Ipswich and Southampton at home as a safety net down the stretch when the panic started (1 win in 7).
If those points aren’t as available this year then senior management should be shitting themselves if we lose tomorrow.
Its generally easier to do better when leaving the PL and playing in a league that's easier to flourish in.
I also don't think he ever looked like a prospect for us. I always had strong doubts with him personally, and foster the same with Dorgu. They strike me as good players at best, who would never really be top 4 PL regulars. Early days though, they both have time to develop..
He's pretty hellbent on preserving the system. He also forgot the Grimsby match when he was recounting the losses in which the system was not the reason we lost. Why didn't anyone ask him how it can help preserving the system when chasing a game and playing Mason Mount at LWB?
It's not exclusively a system issue, and he does allude to things we "cannot change" which is probably not having a midfield (though I think he's at fault for not trying to get Bruno out the door for all that money) and not having a genuine #1 GK. But it is also a system issue. Especially when you cannot adapt to what a game is requiring (or an opponent).
@#07 I'm with you, he's just blagging. He's done that amazingly well. But it stopped working after the Grimsby match.
It's not exclusively a system issue, and he does allude to things we "cannot change" which is probably not having a midfield (though I think he's at fault for not trying to get Bruno out the door for all that money) and not having a genuine #1 GK. But it is also a system issue. Especially when you cannot adapt to what a game is requiring (or an opponent).
@#07 I'm with you, he's just blagging. He's done that amazingly well. But it stopped working after the Grimsby match.
They could be worried that the new manager won't be any better and they may need to sack two managers this season and have to pay two lots of severance payments.
I get the impression Ratcliffe wants to make Europe at all costs, and his perceptions of whether we have a chance to qualify is what will guide his view on Amorim.
I also suspect Ratcliffe views the conditions of not sacking a manager at seasons end, giving him a full summer window, then sacking him shortly into the next season as a mistake he doesn't want to repeat again after ten Hag, because there would be no guarantees he wouldn't find himself in an identical predicament 12 months from now.
Bump. This needs to be watched and discussed more.
I only saw like a handful of Amorim Sporting games, and some highlight video of Gyokeres, so take it with pinch of salt: I feel Amorim builds for this quick attack and quick shot. He’s not about controlling match despite the possession stats. A lot of passes are just possession recycling passes in his team own half among defenders and midfielders. Not with the intention to pin opposition back and break down opposition with number in opposition.
The no 10# are not traditional playmakers, hence the he used pact scoring attackers and move Bruno away from his natural position. Gyokeres scored plenty from dribbling, running the channel, running at the defenders and not that much from heading poacher’s goals which is strange for a dominant team.
Fair enough, but I just also find it a bit pointless to brief statements like that to the press when it's obviously not the case.
starts to drift towards sunk cost fallacy for me. If we lose to sunderland, very good chance after the pool game we are either at the relegation line or within a point or two of those in that region. Coupled with just the incredibly shit league form Amorim showed last season it would be just dumb as feck to keep him on the worry of future managers being equally as bad.
The season is still young enough to where a loss would send us down a spot or two, but a win would lift us into somewhere between 8-10. Neither are likely to make Ratcliffe do anything, which is backed up by recent reporting by Whitwell and Romano.
I think you're right about his motivations. That said, the mistake with ETH wasn't sacking him during the season, it was keeping him on in the first place. So the mistake has already been repeated whether Ratcliffe likes it or not.
Yeah, he's top class in the PR but turkey on the pitch.
Its ridiculous to say its not the system because he doesn't have the players. Any coach can say that. If you realise you don't have the players why not make adjustments?
Frankly, even if we did find him a midfield that was Ince and Keane Mk2, I still think we'd be horribly exposed given the way Premier League sides play.
You can't just repeat what worked in Holland or Portugal and expect it to work in England. Teams here have more physicality, they defend in different zones and with different pressing mechanisms. Just look how Pep had to adapt with his first team, which only beat LVG's to 4th on goal difference, and is having to adapt again.
Amorim's inexperience is the thing being shown up most: never has he had to deal with a situation where not three or four but 3/4ths of the league has the capability of unpicking his approach and he's floundering. Even if we had Caravajal, Alaba, Tchoumeni and Camavinga, I still don't think his way of playing would be succcessful given the types of teams we have to play every week. And its simply mad trying to do it when you don't have players with that versatility and atheleticism. It just exposes them.
Yes, I'm in the same boat. I think at best he could get United to become competent and sort of OK to watch. Anything further is expecting a miracle. The way he seemed to crack at Grimsby takes some giant leaps forward to come back from. This team is brittle, he's done nothing but speak up their lack of confidence, so negative, he's an anti-inspirational figure, during the press conferences and during the matches.
Everytime a topic like this comes up it reminds me of this thread... you're not exactly wrong either.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-fanbases-role-in-the-erosion-of-standards.479956/
It’s the fact that every single person involved in the summer, got together, and agreed that Bruno + 1 of Ugarte/Casemiro was a perfectly doable strategy for the season. A number 10 and no legs as the double pivot, and everyone just went along with it.
There is a lot more wrong at United than just the manager. It’s clear we have a lot more weighing in and making big decisions that don’t understand football.
There is a lot more wrong at United than just the manager. It’s clear we have a lot more weighing in and making big decisions that don’t understand football.
They are incoherent because they are no real rebuilds.The fact that you have to go back to Ole's days to see a much changed squad proves that. Since he was sacked there were transfer windows for Rangnick (arguably doesn't count much as it was a winter window), EtH and Amorim - two or three managers, depending on how you see Rangnick!
What clubs like Sunderland or Leverkusen did this season, bringing 15-20 players in a single window, that's a rebuild. Looking at the usual time players stay at a club 5-6 players have to be signed every season just to keep going, maybe less if you have many long term players. So lets have a look at past seasons (I trust transfermarkt on these), not including promoted youth players and loan returnees:
25/26: 5 signings
24/25: 7 signings
23/24: 7 signings
22/23: 9 signings
21/22: 4 signings
20/21: 5 signings
19/20: 5 signings
18/19: 3 signings
17/18: 4 signings
16/17: 4 signings
15/16: 6 signings
Usually there were 2-3 youth players promoted as well. United's transfer activity in the past decade has been just a bit above "background noise", operating like a club that just needs to keep going and slowly evolve. EtH's arrival was the only window showing more activity, but still not comparable to Sunderland's rebuild. When you go further back and have a look at the SAF years it becomes even more obvious: They also are between 4 and 9 signings, just like the years after him. He changed slowly and evolved over time as he was winning, so that was obviously fine - but can the same amount of transfer activity work for a club that changes wildly between styles with any new manager? For sure not. If the club isn't able to handle more deals in a single window it can't afford to sign wildly different managers. Yet it did that all the time.
the season yes, but i still take into account the last season under amorim. I understand his idea of focusing on europe with the season being sunk, but think the form still matters. Plus it wasnt like we crushed europe either, got lucky to even get to the final and then looked like shit against a trash spurs side. So for me with it being more of the same i think it is another bad decision but ratcliffe and company.
He's getting the boot November 1st when the break clause activates, rightly or wrongly. Might as well hope for a turnaround in the meantime even if we're not holding our breaths. No point whining on every week.
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