Pretty patronising take. So after 50 matches, a 25% win rate (the worst in United post war history) and beating a very limited promoted team, people 'come to their senses'. Standards at this place are incredible. As much as the Glazers have rotted the heart of this club too many fans are just willing to accept failure. Rangers players needed a police escort yesterday. I'm not suggesting that sort of violence, but here the top reds sing the Amorim song whilst watching him get tactically bossed by a novice Brentford manager. They are complicit in our decline.
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
Baleba is not playing intentionally badly, he is playing like a young man who is still developing and unsurprisingly that development is not straight forward. He's having a dip after an exceptional run of form last season, hopefully he refinds his form quite quickly, but he's never going to outstanding every game he plays, no one is.
That is remarkable confidence bordering on delusional. We have won 2 away league games in 2025. One against a hopeless and near enough already relegated Leicester and one thanks to late deflected goal.
Admire your confidence though. And obviously would be very happy if we garned 12 points from that.
We need to be realistic. The only team currently in PL that we've beaten away from home since he arrived are Fulham, and even that was an immensely lucky win at the time.
I think most on here are getting carried away with a win v Sunderland, just as they were when we beat Burnley before previous international break. It was a routine win, not an amazingly brilliant performance that should be analyzed to death to prove how we've turned the corner and are about to go on a run.
Solid take based on our current situation.
I expect that we get four points from those four games, and it'll be just enough that the situation doesn't become entirely untenable. Thus we'll stumble on, hoping against reason, that everything will eventually click into place, well into December. Honestly, I could even see him surviving the season without any significant improvement — just doing enough to hover around mid-table.
Hope I'm wrong and that it all clicks into place!
Liverpool is a game where he has nothing to lose. Even if we lose 10-0, it will just be brushed off as us being destroyed by them always is these days. If we can pull off a result of any kind, it will doubtlessly be blown out of proportion as it was back in January. It's really as big of a win-win as it can be.
Yeah 4 points is what I think.
I also expect that we'll get "up to" 12 points out of those games. Probably quite a few less, but certainly not more!
People are getting ahead of themselves by looking forward to the next 6-8-10 fixtures and estimating how many point we'll pick up. Especially those thinking we'll win most of them.
Let's see if we can win two games in a row first.
With the way things have went under Amorim I can never look past the next game.
Let's see if we can win two games in a row first.
With the way things have went under Amorim I can never look past the next game.
12 points.
Good luck thinking Amorim can take points off Moyes and Nuno. Vastly superior, experienced managers when coaching underdog teams who can smell blood. As for Brighton, they are like Brentford for us - we have been their whipping boys for the past few years.
And I am not even sure Ange will still be at Forest by then, so they may have a new mmanager bounce. Even so, Amorim actually lost to Ange as it was.
100% agree. If we win somehow, it will be talked about by some on here for months as if we won the CL. The Arsenal loss has been almost mythological to some, imagine a win away to Liverpool? There will be calls for a new contract. It is really wild how easily some wish to brush some utterly pathetic results under the carpet and excuse them away when they are literally the majority of Amorim's tenure. This desperation to 'support' individuals (more specifically managers) comes at the cost of the club, to be honest.
I'm a bit late to discuss the Sunderland game as I didn't feel like there was much to say really. It's still just a case of 'let's see if we can back this up now'.
But I am intrigued to know if there has been much discussion about the system/formation following the game? We noticably spent a large part of the game in a 442. What are peoples thoughts on it? Amorim mentioned that he will start loosening the reigns a little with our shape, once he is happy we have the fundamentals of the 343 down. I'm wondering if he has fast tracked that to see how it goes, as I had seen us in 442/433 at times in many other games, but not to the extent as we were against Sunderland.
But I am intrigued to know if there has been much discussion about the system/formation following the game? We noticably spent a large part of the game in a 442. What are peoples thoughts on it? Amorim mentioned that he will start loosening the reigns a little with our shape, once he is happy we have the fundamentals of the 343 down. I'm wondering if he has fast tracked that to see how it goes, as I had seen us in 442/433 at times in many other games, but not to the extent as we were against Sunderland.
No one expects him to be outstanding but he has not completed a Premier League game this season and has averaged about an hour a game.
Second season can always be hard for youngsters so it will be interesting to see how he rises to the challenge.
We look a long way off that to be fair.
I wouldn't read too much into the shape on Saturday. Sunderland sat back and then went 5 at the back. It allowed Amad to virtually play as a winger at times. Dalot also to a lesser extent.
This is his 3rd season in the Premier league.
Between ten Hag and Amorim standards have been brought down to unprecedented levels, including among our fan base. In terms of aspirations and what we are content with we are pretty much on par with Everton / West Ham or maybe even half a notch lower, more of an underdog mentality.
Looking at the positive:-
1) We totally dominated Arsenal and should have won the game or at the very least a draw. Arsenal is top of the table currently.
2) We should have comfortably beaten Fulham based on the first half performance.
3) Burnley we were again dominant and should have won by much bigger margin.
3) City game is the only game we were totally outplayed.
4) Chelsea game again we played really well majority of the game. (I know the red card). We should have scored 4-5 goals.
5) Brentford it was average but if Bruno didn't miss the penalty the game could be very different.
6) Sunderland we again missed lots of chances. First clean sheet and Lemmens look great.
Most important of all we could play very entertaining football majority of the time. It was not like previous managers where I almost fell asleep most games. Just have a feeling that once the team clicked and be more consistent we will be very exciting to watch.
Next season we can further upgrade on 2 CMs and LWB.
Let's go to Anfield and get results! We goooo for it!
1) We totally dominated Arsenal and should have won the game or at the very least a draw. Arsenal is top of the table currently.
2) We should have comfortably beaten Fulham based on the first half performance.
3) Burnley we were again dominant and should have won by much bigger margin.
3) City game is the only game we were totally outplayed.
4) Chelsea game again we played really well majority of the game. (I know the red card). We should have scored 4-5 goals.
5) Brentford it was average but if Bruno didn't miss the penalty the game could be very different.
6) Sunderland we again missed lots of chances. First clean sheet and Lemmens look great.
Most important of all we could play very entertaining football majority of the time. It was not like previous managers where I almost fell asleep most games. Just have a feeling that once the team clicked and be more consistent we will be very exciting to watch.
Next season we can further upgrade on 2 CMs and LWB.
Let's go to Anfield and get results! We goooo for it!
We have picked up as many decent/good results against Liverpool as thrashings since Ten Hag arrived in 2022. The 7-0 at Anfield and 3-0 last season were anamolies.
He managed a draw against them last season and probably should have won, so a heavy defeat could equally be seen as a sign that we have actually gone downhill.
If he does get thrashed, he's on his last legs. I'm not sure he has the personality to survive. Purely, in terms of results, three wins in nine matches is terrible. Regardless of who we have played.
And again, we need to be showing signs of improvement. Since January, it's arguable that we have only won two league matches (Villa and Chelsea) against sides that could/should be around us in the table.
Actually, if you look at the xG, we were better than City. We should've won that game too. We could've had 21 points now if not for fine margins.
But our Transfer and wage budgets are still on or around those of Barcelona and Real Madrid.
6th this season would be seen as great progress and it would be. But only because the club allowed two managers to steer us to 15th last season.
But this is verifiably false by all measurable metrics. It's nonsense. Using the very stats you're referring to; the expected points table, which is heavily based off xG and xGa had us placed around 14th or 15th the season we finished 8th. We were shambolic and scraped a lot of lucky points based on the underlying stats.
Amorim hasn't been good, but this revisionism about how good ETH/Ole were is madness. Both deserved to be sacked, and ETH much earlier than he eventually was.
Also, as for you second point - When ETH was sacked, were we not sitting in 14th place with the very same squad that Amorim finished 15th with? We just carried on being shit. That's all.
This obsession with stats is insane. As plenty of others have noted, our xG only really improved once City were 3-0 up and making subs and sitting back. The idea we were better than City is simply not true, they barely needed to get out of 3rd gear. We also didnt 'dominate' Arsenal, it was a good performance but we struggled to create clear cut chances. People seem to have forgotten what a good performance looks like, so anything that's not utterly crap is seized on like its prime Ajax.
Are you serious
The worst manager we have had, in the top 6 worse Prem managers there has been and you think its sentiment after a poor performance to want him gone that wears off.....
Honesty, stick to your fantasy league where we are top and winning 5-0 every week. It will make you a lot happier. The rest of us will stay in the real world. How many times will someone say 'once the team clicked'. We are seeing the system now. its ok, but its defensive and reactive. Its not about possession so we will never control games, Amorim does not want control of the ball. Some of you seem to be misunderstanding fundamentally what his system is.
We’ve played them 4 times since 7-0 in the league, 23-24 was kind of ridiculous because we somehow drew against them twice despite them running over us in both games. The 2-2 at OT where we scored with the first shot after they should have pulled away by 5 goals before half, and 0-0 at Anfield where their xG was much higher than in the 7-0. In terms of actual performances, the draw last year was the first time in a long while when we didn’t deserve to be thrashed by them.
Should've, could've would've - but didn't. At some point a list of shoulds and ifs stops being a positive and starts being a negative.
I thought the "we could've had 21 points..." was a clear sign that this was sarcasm in response to that previous post.
It makes absolutely no sense to bring Amorim in halfway through last season, against his own advice / wishes, and then sack him a few weeks into the new season, shortly after he finally has a few reasonable attackers to work with.
The only reason to do that would be if we looked in genuine danger of going down, and that's obviously not going to happen.
Whether you love him, hate him or are indifferent, I just dont see the logic in sacking him now.
Give him until 1st Jan. If there aren't clear signs of improvement, plan for next season without him - whether that means sack and replace mid-season again or sack March/April and have the new manager in by 1st June.
The only reason to do that would be if we looked in genuine danger of going down, and that's obviously not going to happen.
Whether you love him, hate him or are indifferent, I just dont see the logic in sacking him now.
Give him until 1st Jan. If there aren't clear signs of improvement, plan for next season without him - whether that means sack and replace mid-season again or sack March/April and have the new manager in by 1st June.
I don't understand it. You'd think a fanbase that was accustomed to winning almost non-stop over a 20 year period would have impeccably high standards when it came to the quality of managers and players, but there's a "Top Red" element to the fanbase that treats any criticism of underperforming players/managers as disloyalty.
Hence why that shit Ruben Amorim song gets belted out whenever we're beating relegation fodder in Old Trafford (how about at least waiting til he wins 2 games in a row before singing it), or why you get piled on here for suggesting that, say, Patrick Dorgu cannot cross a ball to save his life, or that turning down 100 million for a 31 year old player in order to play him out of position might not have been the best idea in the world.
Madness.
I agree with majority of your post but relegation under Amorim is not impossible. A lot of the stats associated with him since he's been here point to a relegation battle.
If Ruben is still here in January & has us in the top 4, I will be happy but also gobsmacked! 
Yes god forbid people be happy if we manage to beat Liverpool away. Keep focusing on all those losses last year after he came in mid season with none of his own players though dude!
You‘ve completely missed my points. The way xG is calculated overvalues shots from distance and small chances vs big chances. That worked in Ten Hag‘s favour and against Amorim‘s results.
And no, you cannot explain the discrepancy of 7 places on the table by luck. If you choose to believe that, I can‘t change your mind.
Playing a high risk/high reward strategy makes you more dependent on luck. Over the whole season it evens out.
Ten Hag‘s third season is different: different tactics and subsequently different outcomes.
The Athletic article reffered to explains it perfectly.
The squad has enough quality to be comfortably mid table.
I've seen people on here argue that United never was a successful club like others and I think that idea is not wrong. Can't remember which member said it or link to a thread, but basically their thinking was:
United only did win significant stuff under Busby and Ferguson and everything went through their hands. There never was a structure in the club that allowed to treat managers as replaceable parts, it is only the manager who brings success.
And because of that the managers are the personification of the club and fans treat them like they treat the club, showing unconditional love to them.
There is no other top club that has a comparable history. Every other similar club stayed successful when replacing key personell. And even if clubs have strong figures leading them to success for a long time they are not alone, there are always other people who share their part of creating success.
I don't understand it either but it's how it is. Our fans generally expect less than fans of mid-table clubs.
It's actually exact opposite. Fans seem conscious of how poor our baseline level is right now, but are happy to exaggerate any half decent performance to convince themselves that we are somehow better than we are. It's a cycle. If we lose 5-0 to Liverpool, all it will take is a draw/win against either Brighton or Forest for people to forget that entirely.Are you serious
The worst manager we have had, in the top 6 worse Prem managers there has been and you think its sentiment after a poor performance to want him gone that wears off.....
1. We conceded in the 13th minute against Arsenal and probably 'dominated' because Arsenal were ahead for most of the game. We didn't create a single big chance the whole match, and there's a chance they would have put their feet down and taken back control if we equalized at any point.
2. We were not better than Fulham in that game in any way. We started better than them in the first half, but that was it. You could say they could have beaten us comfortably too based on the rest of the first half and the second half. In fact, they had more big chances than us and finished with a higher xG even though we had a penalty.
3. Burnley, fair enough.
4. City, fair enough.
5. Chelsea, fair enough.
6. Brentford beat us comfortably. It wasn't an average performance, it was a terrible one. Our only argument is that we missed a penalty and they should have had a red card. They missed even more chances to score and we had no momentum the whole game.
7. The only good chance I could remember us missing against Sunderland was the Amad header? We didn't really create many big chances apart from that and the goals, but we played well until their manager switched formation. After that, it was a scrappy game and the second half was even.
So all our results this season have been fair. There's no positives to look beyond our points tally IMO. We haven't been that much better in terms of controlling games too. Our performances so far this season haven't been any different from what we showed to be capable of last season. We have beaten two promoted teams and a team that played the majority of the first half with one less man which weren't problems last season. We'll have a better idea with the upcoming fixture run.
There is likely an element of truth to that thinking.
However surely the majority of United fans must realise it's not sustainable or practical to rely on finding the next Ferguson or Busby, and actually, whether we like it or not, if we want to achieve any level of consistent success we do need to become more like other clubs. Sure, it was incredible having one man lead the club and dominate for decades, it adds something special to our history, but it's almost certainly not going to happen again, at least not any time soon.
There is nothing admirable about blindly supporting a manager whilst we're a laughing stock of football, as has been the case for much of the past 12 years. Managers should be treated as disposable until they've proven themselves otherwise, and being given time should be earned, not a perk of the job