Sure, one game against Sunderland. I'm talking of about a pattern here over time. This system isn't set up for true wingmanship that would get the best best out of the players we have at our disposal. Yeah, we won against Sunderland, but we have not won 2 games in a row, we still have incredibly low points for the games he has played.
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) celebrate a fantastic victory as Manchester United won 2-0 in the Derby. They celebrate the changes Carrick has made, discuss our new coaching team and find time to play a Stupid Game. Enjoy!
- Status
I think Manchester United's expectations for the season should be a bit higher than avoiding relegation.
The club have set a target of top 6 this season, if by November it looks like we are not on track for that then I expect Amorim will be sacked.
We play 38 games a season, the team is always going to win games. I think Amorim lowered the bar so much that wins in the league can feel like cup wins because they have to so few and far between. It’s worth remembering that we had a dreadful league campaign in Ten Hag’s last full season and still won 18 games.
We need to not be so accepting of mediocrity and have standards again. If we go on a run of wins then I think it’s fair for positivity to build some steam in the fanbase but getting odd home wins against relegation teams isn’t a reason to get excited yet.
We need to not be so accepting of mediocrity and have standards again. If we go on a run of wins then I think it’s fair for positivity to build some steam in the fanbase but getting odd home wins against relegation teams isn’t a reason to get excited yet.
Or alternatively that the mistake was not sacking him sooner.
I can't say I agree, we actually waited too long to sack Ten Hag. It should have happened in the summer then at the very latest during the October international break.
Everything that happened after was in large part due to Ten Hag being given way too long. Amorim of course created his own problems freezing players out and deciding to switch a formation that didn't suit his squad.
Last edited:
The system affords the wingbacks and also the 10s interchangeably plenty of width though? We’ve seen Dorgu and Amad with plenty of space out wide, that’s one of the hallmarks of this system. We don’t always capitalise because both players have been a little inconsistent so far, but I really don’t see this narrowness you seem to be talking about.
This. We're rubbish at playing out from the back and we don't have the midfielders to play that way either. With Sesko in the team instead of Hojlund, it makes absolute sense to be more direct at times and is playing to our strengths.
I've no problem at all with us going back to basics for the time being if it works. There's more than one way to play football, that's just been forgotten about slightly since everyone started trying to copy Pep.
Perhaps, I'll reserve judgement until after the next few games. If we start getting more flexible then I'll see it as some sort of progress.
I think we can agree that the time to sack ten Hag was at the season - a clean break so we could hire a new manager and give them a summer to prepare.
Yeah I've learned via this thread never to take Raoul wanting Amorim sacked serious. He's said it at least twice for this season, then changed his mind by the next game.Are you serious
The worst manager we have had, in the top 6 worse Prem managers there has been and you think its sentiment after a poor performance to want him gone that wears off.....
Wingbacks can work, but there is a limited amount of wingbacks. You're talking about Dorgu, Amorim has also played Dalot there a lot. Personally, I rate Amad, but he would be far, far better as a proper winger, as would Mbuemo and Cunha. They are being wasted of their full potential.
With a two man midfield, any decent team will will over-run on in midfield. Bruno is better at 10 in a 3. With two midfielders behind him. Sure sometimes, you can adapt and do 343 formation on occasions. But based on the players we have and in order to get consistency, we are better off not doing this formation. The data backs it up over 33 games since Amorim has been here.
You can't really debate with me or other posters on here over a ONE single win over Sunderland.
Maybe, you are right and this system works wonders, but at this point, most people are still Amorim out, because he has to win trust, by winning.
Yeah, me too, I really hate playing out from the back, it's just asking for trouble especially when that plonker Onana was in goal.
Keep the ball as far away from your goal as you can, that way it makes it more difficult for your opponents to score against you, instead of making stupid passes 20 yards from your goal.
Its amazing how this cheaper to sack him thing persists despite no reliable reports of it being true
To me this is a new season,
To me, there is clear improvement this season albeit still inconsistent. We are also starting to play entertaining football, again, inconsistent.
Hope that Amorim can make this work and we can perform consistently.
Look, I am not saying that Amorim will be a success. But he deserves more time as it's only 7 games after proper pre-season and new players.
I can't help if you would prefer to look at it from different angle. I have no problem with that at all. It's fine to have different view.
To me, there is clear improvement this season albeit still inconsistent. We are also starting to play entertaining football, again, inconsistent.
Hope that Amorim can make this work and we can perform consistently.
Look, I am not saying that Amorim will be a success. But he deserves more time as it's only 7 games after proper pre-season and new players.
He needs a series of wins, forget the XG stats, forget the wish fulfillment fantasies that people have built up around him. You can't be this shit over the first 50 games and expect that fans will have blind faith in him.
Win a lot of games and win them in a way that suggest progress and sustainability, faith will return.
Win a lot of games and win them in a way that suggest progress and sustainability, faith will return.
We almost certainly won’t require him to finish top 6 to keep the job. We should, but we won’t.
I prefer to look at it from both angles.
We have squandered some great chances, but also received some gifts from the opposition. That is football.
Those saying "we would have had X more points if only Bruno scored the pens" etc, don't wish to take into consideration that we could have easily been worse off too. The shirt pull on Amad v Burnley was without a doubt a massive gift of two points. It cuts both ways and usually at the end of the season, balances itself out.
Without that shit pull, it would have been 2 points from the first four games in the league, plus a loss to Grimsby. That shirt pull may have saved Amorim his job.
We are, in my opinion, in the right place in the league. Mid table.
It would have been Onana 2.0, the same way people were convinced DeGea was past it and this new shiny toy would solve all our problems.
we always have width, whether that’s from the wingbacks staying wide or the 10s playing wide when the wingbacks cut in. It’s interchangeable but we never not have width - and I’m not talking just about the Sunderland game.
That's a sensible way of looking at it, but I would suggest that Bruno's two penalty misses would ordinarily be reliable goals given he had a 92.5% conversion rate over a 13 year career going in with only 5 misses from 66 attempts going into Fulham. That is quite different from random events like shots off the woodwork (which we also happen to lead the league in) and missed calls by refs etc. In this case, a normally very reliable player happened to miss two chances which are being used as a stick to beat the manager with.
Yes that too. I thought Sesko had his best all round game for us too. I had doubts about him initially (still do) but encouraged by that display
I like Baleba, but am glad we declined to buy him as it would've been insane to spend upwards of £120m on him, especially when we could easily buy two top midfielders for that next summer.
This is a cascade of errors beginning with not sacking Ten Hag at the end of 24 season. We compounded that error by poaching Amorim in December 2024 after a disasterous start by Ten Hag. We chased the current hottest manager with either doing no background research or having done it we disregarded our findings. What has transpired was a diabolical run of results. The next error was not getting rid of Amorim at the end of the last season and we are pretty much where we expect to be - no consistency other than dropping points. It looks like we will stick with Amorim until the end of the season unless we want to repeat our errors from before.
We are caught in a cycle of poor management hirings by being unclear in what we want and then prevaracating when the situation turns sour.
We need to stop backing managers and start backing strategies where managers are as replaceable as the players.
We are caught in a cycle of poor management hirings by being unclear in what we want and then prevaracating when the situation turns sour.
We need to stop backing managers and start backing strategies where managers are as replaceable as the players.
I get that, but it limits the avenues for us as a team. There is much more we can do to maximise Mbuemo and Cunha, whilst utilising Mount/Bruno in 10 and have midfield of 2 and striker like Sesko.
Its having width, sure a wingbacks bring width, but they also limit the set of players we have. And also, finding suitable players for a niche position like wingback is much harder than actually just having a good attacking full back with an actual attacking winger. Also frees up Bruno.
Our first goal against Sunderland was after an 18 pass move, which is the joint highest in the league so far this season, which involved a lot of playing out from the back to bait the press, followed by a few direct passes to attack quickly. We most certainly haven't abandoned playing out from the back.
A more accurate description would be that we were balanced in our approach, trying to play out from the back where possible, and going long to bypass the press when necessary. Teams going long to avoid the press is becoming more and more prevalent as teams get better and better at pressing high and closing passing lanes. Even Pep has adjusted to take a much more direct approach, as the athleticism and pressing ability of most teams makes it much more risky to have the ball deep in the defensive half, and also means there's usually more space in the opposition half and more chance of winning second balls as they've pressed high.
I know some on here are using this as yet another stick to beat Amorim with, some posters will do that with every piece of information no matter what it is, but this one is manager-agnostic. It's just the way modern football is going, it's a natural counter to the high pressing that's so prevalent in the game today.
It may well be true (no one seems to know for sure), but it still wouldn't mean he's sacked in November if Ratclife and Berrada believe things are heading in a more positive direction.
To be fair it wasn't balanced in the second half the ball was pretty much in the air the whole half but when your fragile and leading close the game down how you need to, I just hope when we have some confidence we don't do it as much
I can't believe that, if it were true then there's no point to any of this.
You cannot expect us to finish above any of Arsenal, City or Liverpool, and it’s a tough ask to finish above 2 of Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea. And that’s not even mentioning Palace, Brighton, Bournemouth, Villa and Everton, all of whom are probably better than us currently.
I know you're taking the piss, but sadly they are curently better than us. Because we're playing so far below where we should be.
I tend to wonder if Berrada is going to be as much behind Amorim as Ratclife at this point considering Berrada has that goal of winning the league by 2028.
we have a squad that is far more competitive than you suggest, if played in their natural positions
Good point, and hard to say. Winning the league in three years would seem a more distant, aspirational priority than qualifying for Europe next year, which is doubly important given the amount money at play for the club next summer. I'd imagine both Ratcliffe and Berrada are fixating on that at the moment since it would directly affect next summer's transfer budget.
If Bruno scored them 2 pens this season we could be 3 pts better of which puts us 6th and 3pts behind 1st.
Anyone else remember the poster who put together the alternate table during the time SAF was here? It was something along the lines of, win every home game, 3 points. Win away vs the bottom 6. Lose away vs the other top 3 teams. Draw away vs the remaining 10 teams. 57 points for winning home games, 18 points beating the bottom 6 away. 10 points for draws vs the middle teams. Total if you do that, 85 points.
He put together a table where lets say you drew at home, that is -2 points. Expected to get 3, got 1 so -2. But if you won away against another top 4 side- that is +3 points. Win away against a mid table side, that is plus 2 points. Lose, that is -1.
The table was to keep track of how well United were doing based upon strength of schedule.
Last year, top 6 was 66 points. Draw vs top 5 teams at home, win vs the other 14. That is 42+5 points. Win away to the bottom 5 (15 points,) Lose to the top 6 away (0 points) draw vs the remaining teams away-- 8 points. Total points, 42+5+15+8 = 70 points.
United have dropped 1 point at home (Arsenal,) picked up 2 points (vs Chelsea,) 0 points for their other 2 home wins. Expected 0 points vs City (mission accomplished,) 1 point vs Fulham, but 1 point dropped for Brentford as you wanted at least a draw away vs them.
Oddly, based upon the schedule-- United is still on pace for 70 points. But with the upcoming games, a loss to Liverpool doesn't hurt, but they must get 3 vs Brighton, NF and 1 vs Tottenham to keep pace.
If Amorim can't get it done over the next 4 games and ends up getting sacked-- the silver lining to all of this is that the next manager inherits a friendly run of fixtures. AFter those 4, Everton (h), Palace, West Ham (h), Wolves, Bournemouth (h), Villa, Newcastle (h), Wolves (h), Leeds, Burnley.
What a chance to rack up points getting to play Wolves twice in December, not to mention getting to play Burnley, West Ham and Leeds. 5 games against teams who could all finish bottom 5.
I'm going to be the optimist, because I see some positives compared to the final year plus of ETH and beginning of RA's tenure last year. Just need to players to continue to gel as a team and for Lammens to not be historically awful like Onana and United has a shot to be top 6 this year.
What is a positive direction to them you'd wonder? Cause If our current trajectory continues, as in our dreadful away form, our next 5-6 games could result in us barely scraping a point in any of them. Grimsby, Fulham, Brentford and City have all been appalling showings, and we've far greater tests incoming.
Dont tell the ignorants in this thread this. They probably failed any kind of statistic class as well, it's been seven games and we played 3 big teams already.
When the season started people couldnt expect having a strong top 4 finish without sorting out the midfield, GK, and lack of quality at WB and top class striker. We have done ok, for the start, with some serious bad luck and injury to Cunha and Mount, Sesko still a raw player being bought after the season started etc...
I expect top6 finish which will be full of set backs in the long season, it really is normal to start like this and go on a run after the Liverpool fixture. Top3 is Mancity, Arsenal, Liverpool no doubt... with much better established squads. Then it's Chelsea, us, and Spurs for the next three, maybe Newcastle in the mix. The rest will finish below us, and it will be okay, for a first full season after a massive clear out.
One of the worst threads in the history of Redcafe in my view. Too lazy to ignore some of the bitter users here.
But we were a match for them. They couldnt match us. We were better than them. Not saying we are, or would be tommorow, but on the day we were.
Very much doubt it, but it would be a laugh if suddenly we've clicked and we start battering teams. Doubt it, but its a nice dream.
I firmly believe he should've been sacked after Grimsby, but I agree there are actual stretches and periods of play this season where we look like a functional, competent footballing unit.
He needs to win matches though, and we need to actually come away from a match against a top half of the table side with 3 points where we were unequivocally better over 90 minutes and wasn't against 10 men for 85 minutes like vs Chelsea.
- Status