You are the one who brought up completed passes. There wasn't any mention of passes before you did. Almost every team in the Premier League has their centre backs completing the most passes. It's not special to the good teams, so not sure what point you are trying to make with it.
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood), Imran (@Annihilate Now!) & Jamie (@Vault Dweller) celebrate a fantastic victory as Manchester United won 2-0 in the Derby. They celebrate the changes Carrick has made, discuss our new coaching team and find time to play a Stupid Game. Enjoy!
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The only thing worse than LVG football was Ten Hag's where our goal would be under siege every week for me so I don't want that.
However I judge against the rest of the league and there are very few teams that are in control most weeks. Arsenal being the best, but dull.
Ok
Amorim suggested that at our high point, our three CBs will "control tempo + quality of game". I don't see how that is ideal, because CBs naturally, usually aren't as good on the ball as midfielders and attackers of similar class. They will hold onto possession because they are usually under the least pressure, but ideally you'd want to lean on your midfielders and wide players to control territory. Them consistently getting on the ball without having to drop too deep is key to dominating it. They are the ones who move the ball more and drive with it.
My concern is more about the thinking and the direction we may be heading than anything. CBs who can hold the ball are useful in possession because they serve as the first line and as a hedge against pressure high up the pitch, but most teams have only two CBs doing that just fine. It comes across like we are trying to use our CBs more than as a hedge, and building in a direction where responsibility on the ball falls more on them than is usual, seeing that we also always play an extra one regardless of match situation.
If it represents Amorim's mindset, it's genuinely concerning. We'd be priding our ability to control the game on having the extra CB, which is far from optimal. We'd always have our supposed advantage in possession too deep and restricted in the backline, and not as good on the ball as he could be.
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Apologies if I wasn't clear, it's not that you rate Amorim highly I was questioning - we all like different things, that's fine.
It was the defenders that should set the tempo and dictate play I was refering to, was just too early to word proper.
It still sounds 'off' to me, but perhaps it'll work out who knows.
He's also created the most chances in the league?
At this stage I think people are just looking round for stuff that supports their confirmation bias that Amorim's system is shit. On this page of the thread alone you have someone bemoaning the fact that we just 'hoof the ball upfield and bypass our CM's, and then someone else saying that Bruno (one of our CMs) having the most passes in our team is not a good thing? So does our system bypass the midfield too much, or is one of midfielders making most passes in the team (and creating most chances in the league) a bad thing? I'm confused.
I've tried to explain this before. Amorim's system is explicitly not designed to build via the midfield, unlike say Glasner where the CMs can and often are more involved in the build up. Amorim system means CBs look to go wide or play through the lines to the 10s, or longer to the CF. We have seen variations of this in different matches this season. The role of the more attacking CM (Bruno) is then to be in a position to receive the second ball and then immediately release a wing back or forward. The first goal at Anfield showed this well. So its entirely correct to say that we do bypass our CMs in the build up, but at the same time if our build up works then one of the CMs (Bruno) will often be there to make a pass in more advanced areas.
As to whether this is good or bad I would say its just limited. It makes us more predictable and is a crucial reason why we cannot control the tempo of the match and fade so much in the second half. Its not just about having more mobile CMs, it relies on energy and pressing to control the game rather than controlled possession.
Exactly this... anything Amorim says or does... well it can't work. It doesn't make any sense because what they say and what the stats say is completely different.
Also weird how now CB's controlling games is not ideal? but when you look at the teams that control the ball alot, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, the CB's have most touches? Also.. dont they also drop their midfielders into a back 3 in build up?
Thank you for the analysis, but the fact remains that one of our centre mids dictates most of our play and creates most of our chances. That is the bottom line.
Did anyone say that our CM having the most passes in the team is a bad thing? And him creating the most chances is not the gotcha you think it is. His attacking numbers are worse than it's ever been. I'd rather drop the Bruno talk anyway, it's been done to death already.
You keep twisting things to support your view. Lets look at some basics. There is no team where CBs control the game. Its down to a broader team set up and system. Pep when he played 3 CBs at times used 2 and even 3 CMs in that position, he's joked his ideal team would have 10 CMs on the pitch. The point is they are all technical players and very comfortable on the ball. Other teams are more comfortable in possession and most build up possession through midfield either some or most of the time, which we rarely do. It means we are less able to retain the ball when under pressure or to keep the ball to slow the game down. In part because we are often out numbered in midfield, and if we add another player its a CB who is typically less technical. A more mobile replacement for Casimero with younger legs will of course make the team better but wont change the fundamentals of how Amorim plays.
The reality is that no other top manager has been so fixed on a single system as Amorim. Its also a system that doesn't seek to dominate possession but rather get the ball forward quickly. People should not confuse that with scenarios where teams let us have possession as they think we will struggle to break them down. So none of these points are criticisms, they are observations. Some people may not care, some people may think there is something genuinely unique about the system that will bring success. Others may see these as limitations. T
So I didn't say it afterall, because those two statements don't mean the same thing.
This doesn't tell you the difference between those two statements?
Er what?
"I'm not sure one of the best attacking midfielders in the league completing the most passes for the team is a good thing"
followed by
'Did anyone say that our CM having the most passes in the team is a bad thing?'
If there is some deeper hidden meaning here that I'm missing you are gonna have to spell it out for me.
@Gordon'sHill are you ever going to let us in on what your previous username was?! ;-)
Exactly.. Pep joked about it... I remember Pep also saying there is no way they can replace Aguero...
I think people are taking things Amorim says out of context and way too literal.
So we don't go through midfield, Bruno has the most touches? It doesn't make sense?
So Arsenal, City and Liverpool have better systems but their CB's control the game... they have the most touches. YOu are contradicting yourself here.
Yes, they're obviously different. The second statement is a straw man. I didn't say or imply that.
I'm still really confused here - genuinely - and if I'm missing something then I apologise. What is the difference between those two statements? Are you saying that because in your first statement you said 'I'm not sure it's a good thing' it is materially different from saying it's a 'bad" thing?
What? How does that make sense? You said it.
A poster said.. Bruno has the most touches, you replied with "Also, I'm not sure one of the best attacking midfielders in the league completing the most passes for the team is a good thing."
Last time I checked.. Bruno is playing CM for us? unless we are wrong?
What I meant was that one of the best attacking midfielders in the league shouldn't be in a position where they are completing the most passes for their team, because that suggests they are playing deeper than ideal. It was about the player (Bruno), not the position he is playing (CM). The statement you implied I made misrepresents that. The nuance is that I believe Bruno shouldn't be playing as CM in this formation, but I'd prefer not to discuss it further since it’s been done to death already.
I still don't understand, but that's fine.
The cb‘s controlling the game discussion: I think here Amorim is not talking about passing the ball around the back so much, but about a cb moving up in midfield creating an overload.
Defensively, a cb moving up to challenge in midfield is a way of controlling the game as well.
In games lately we have seen long ball tactics, but we have also seen the wide cb‘s playing cross passes out to the other side. They can also drive up with the ball at their feet.
Currently, every team in PL is pressing intensively, so to have tactics to deal with that is extremely important.
To have a manager come up with solutions is needed, and Amorim is doing that. The cb‘s when playing well, will be controlling the game indeed.
Defensively, a cb moving up to challenge in midfield is a way of controlling the game as well.
In games lately we have seen long ball tactics, but we have also seen the wide cb‘s playing cross passes out to the other side. They can also drive up with the ball at their feet.
Currently, every team in PL is pressing intensively, so to have tactics to deal with that is extremely important.
To have a manager come up with solutions is needed, and Amorim is doing that. The cb‘s when playing well, will be controlling the game indeed.
If you need CB to push to the MF, just put the one extra MF on the field. Not like we have good defensive record with 3 at the back. I wish him well, but dude is just making his job harder.
So when teams such as City, Arsenal push their DM's into the back line in build up, do you think they should play 3 CB's?
Or when they invert full backs into CM, would you say they should play CM in full back?
Or does this logic only apply to Amorim?
Why would you want the CB to control the tempo? How would they even do that? Just keep hold of the ball? If they just sit back and pass it between themselves then what does that achieve? if they move up as a unit to compress the play then what happens on the breakdowns - you then need very mobile cb to play a high back three. Apart from Yoro none of our cb are particularly mobile. So our three cb will default to sitting deeper even when there are three of them as they lack mobility to compress the game. This then leaves the midfield always outnumbered. So the extra man in defence achieves nothing, which is why you might as well play 2 cb and 3 midfielders with one of the midfielders expressly tasked with shielding the cb - Busquets played this role brilliantly in his pomp.
3-4-3 seems to be an answer to a problem that doesnt exist. If 3-4-3 was such a smart way to organise a team then it would proliderate everywhere - but it hasn't and for good reason.
We keep making the same mistake by indulging managers and players. Until we get out of this rut we will not have sustained success.
We are playing with 2 MF, so if one come to back line to dictate play, we now only have one man in MF.
Now if we want to our CB to dictate play and that our MF stays at their place, you are calling for disaster with 2 FB further on the pitch... Lose the ball it is probably easy chance for opponents. But if we don't push our WB further on the pitch why even have them?
I first understand that FB are integral for his play, now are CB?
Already wrote, I wish him al success but I just want manager who doesn't complicate things. No wonder we played some our best footie under Mou and Ole.
A point there is looking like a very good result now
6 weeks ago Amorim was as good as gone and Slot was the genius pushing towards Liverpool to overtake United’s league record. Unbelievable how quickly things can change so dramatically.
Forest getting relegated right guys?
Does now! New manager bounce and all.
Sure, if our ambition is to finish above Liverpool this season. By the look of things, finishing 14th would probably achieve that goal.
Was a good draw anyway to be fair. Lost to them twice last season and we’d have bottled the game if we went behind 2-1 last year. We’ve made massive improvements this year
Shame the club is still a year or so away from having a full set of pieces to play with...the league looks like it is very open this season.
Having one game a week is a real advantage, but I feel the midfield shortcomings and the AFCON, any real progress up the table will be halted a little.
But nothing we can do about that, so we should just try to enjoy each game.
Having one game a week is a real advantage, but I feel the midfield shortcomings and the AFCON, any real progress up the table will be halted a little.
But nothing we can do about that, so we should just try to enjoy each game.
3 guarantees in life - Death, Taxes and a Ruben Amorim Interview 
Really likeable guy, and the most charismatic manager (in his own, quiet way) we've had here since Fergie - Really hope it works out for you at United mate, win this must-win tomorrow with conviction, and plenty of people will be eating a slice of humble pie, at least till next weekend haha!
Really likeable guy, and the most charismatic manager (in his own, quiet way) we've had here since Fergie - Really hope it works out for you at United mate, win this must-win tomorrow with conviction, and plenty of people will be eating a slice of humble pie, at least till next weekend haha!
I think we really need something done in January to make up for the AFCON personnel losses (especially if we're within touching distance of top 4 come boxing day) - If exec can support the team with the finances, we'd be in the mix.
As you say though, enjoy each game as it comes - I'm sure exec and Ruben are looking at opportunities even right now.
A new signing would cover 3 league games maximum.
That's assuming:
- they signed on Jan 1st to be able to play against Leeds (A) on 3rd
- Cameroon and/or Ivory Coast make it far enough (QF) to miss Burnley (A) on 7th
- they make it to final to miss City (H)
Ivory Coast are currently 6th favourites, Cameroon 9th.
Morocco (Mazraoui) are favourites to win it.
I don’t think that the plan is just to have the defenders in control. Ultimately, we want control everywhere on the pitch (no s#!t Sherlock but…). This business with the defenders is another way of creating overloads throughout the team. It obviously starts with them stepping in but as I see it, this is only phase 1. Once this is fully embedded and working as it should, the next phase will be for the midfield to control their patch. That is what the next upgrade is all about. We need the right cogs in the midfield next and hopefully a Baleba/Anderson (or players of that ilk) will be able to control the ball because (i) they will so much better than most of their counterparts and (ii) they will have a defender pushing in or a WB or a No.10 to supplement them…it’s organic and symbiotic. I see it as a cascade throughout the 11…it has to work like a well oiled team from front to back.
Essentially, the squad he inherited was full of weak, slow, un-athletic players unsuited to the PL with a number of players also unsuited mentally to dominate games and opposition or, dare I say it, know how to win. Amorim has had a hell of a job on his hands to either root all of these players out or make them functional. I wish he was doing it quicker (or that it was possible to do so) to enable us to take advantage of a non-vintage PL but it took us years of bad to awful leadership to get us to the point we were last year and it’ll take some time to get back to our best…I am cautiously optimistic that we are heading in the right direction and that Amorim is the man to get us back to the top…
Essentially, the squad he inherited was full of weak, slow, un-athletic players unsuited to the PL with a number of players also unsuited mentally to dominate games and opposition or, dare I say it, know how to win. Amorim has had a hell of a job on his hands to either root all of these players out or make them functional. I wish he was doing it quicker (or that it was possible to do so) to enable us to take advantage of a non-vintage PL but it took us years of bad to awful leadership to get us to the point we were last year and it’ll take some time to get back to our best…I am cautiously optimistic that we are heading in the right direction and that Amorim is the man to get us back to the top…
Fully agree. If we're going to sign anyone in January it needs to be in midfield, we're one injury to Casemiro (or a red card) away from disaster there. Think we should just about be alright during Afcon - just keep fingers crossed that Cameroon and Ivory Coast are knocked out early.
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