Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
Thats not quite true though is it - we have 3 up front, a very aggressive cm, and 2 wingbacks that sit further up than any other team. We’re attacking with 6. We also have cbs that advance the ball a lot or join the cms.
It’s a bit one sided to say we have an extra defender because that’s negated by using LWB and RWB that are basically attacking all the time. Granted Dalot isn’t cutting it.
We very rarely have both WBs attacking. It happened occasionally with Amad and Dorgu, but basically never with Maz or Dalot
I don’t think ours are at all. The facts are that we sacrifice an attacker/midfielder for a defender.
We don’t have three up front though which is part of why we struggle to get numbers in the box. Cunha in particular does most of his work from deep.
It’s a literal fact that we have more defenders on the pitch.
What do we gain from having Dorgu or Dalot higher up the pitch than having an actual attacker doing it?
Some of the best skits ever. Thanks for the rainy, freezing day chuckle.
i can see this - neither is currently suited for the roles. Dalot is a typical fullback / wingback and mazraui is too slow i think - both are probably more suited for the RCB / LCB roles. Hence why Amad is so important for this formation.
For the Amad is a winger in this formation crowd. Look at his possession stats and where he has the ball in comparison to players actually playing as wingers. I chose the three we got rid of for comparison.
https://fbref.com/stathead/player_c...=99127249&p4yrfrom=2025-2026&p4yrto=2025-2026
https://fbref.com/stathead/player_c...=99127249&p4yrfrom=2025-2026&p4yrto=2025-2026
The percentiles vs different positions show the exact opposite of the point you're trying to make.
vs wingers:
vs fullbacks:
The areas he's getting the ball are clearly more typical of a winger.
Ha ha
This is an odd or clumsy take, are you saying progress can only be measured based off the performances of our prior playing staff?
That feels like a counter to a claim that Amorim is working miracles, which no one is making. All teams make progress through improving the squad I don't see how this is some black mark against Amorim.
In theory maybe, but in reality we don't. The last few games have shown this. Especially the first half against crystal palace.
Everytime we tried to attack we had 3 players vs 5. There was no threat or support from the wing backs and neither of the cm's moved into attack. It was for the vast majority of attacks just 3, it's the main reason we created absolutely nothing.
Why is this some sort of universally agreed opinion on this forum? He absolutely can play LWB.
Can we have 10 unbeaten games or 5 wins in a row before we discuss why amorim should stay in the job?
No.
That’s a 365 days comparison and heavily skewed by the fact he played as a winger more. Of his 17 league starts under Amorim last season 9 of them were as a ‘10’. This season he has started 7 games as a wing back and 4 as a ‘10’.The percentiles vs different positions show the exact opposite of the point you're trying to make.
vs wingers:
vs fullbacks:
The areas he's getting the ball are clearly more typical of a winger.
The facts are that despite often playing as an actual forward he still lags behind the wingers we let go when it comes to touches in attacking areas. Which would suggest he’s more of a defender than a winger.
Improving what you have is one of the fundamental principles of a good manager. If we are exactly the same as we were when Mbeumo leaves, we have made no improvement. Right now he seems to be the only divide, effectively carrying us in attack.
These are his numbers for this season in the PL, during which he's mostly played at WB (percentiles given vs fullbacks):
They're very similar to the year-long picture. He's had more touches in the attacking third and attacking penalty area, and fewer touches in the defensive third than any other single player listed as a fullback in the PL on fbref. These numbers are still much closer to a winger.
So we've made no improvement if we ignore the things that have made us improve? I suppose that's hard to argue against.
Hopefully we'll sign a top midfielder so they can also be a 'no improvement' contributor.
Because the full backs he is being compared to haven’t played any games as a winger/10. Compare him to actual wingers.These are his numbers for this season in the PL, during which he's mostly played at WB (percentiles given vs fullbacks):
They're very similar to the year-long picture. He's had more touches in the attacking third and attacking penalty area, and fewer touches in the defensive third than any other single player listed as a fullback in the PL on fbref. These numbers are still much closer to a winger.
It’s very simple. There should be much more improvement than a single point failure after more than a year in the job. We’ll soon see if that is the case.
Fbref won't let you because he's played the vast majority of his games this year nominally as a WB. You can see that the actual numbers are very close to those in the year-long snapshot.
Trying to argue that he's been more like a defender when he's 99th percentile for touches among them at one end of the pitch and 1st percentile at the other end of the pitch is just silly. If he was playing like a defender, those numbers would look average compared to defenders. They're clearly exceptional because he doesn't actually play anything like most defenders, and doesn't get on the ball in the same areas they do.
I gave you the comparison to three wingers. He touches the ball more in defensive areas than each of them and less in attacking areas. Again, despite the fact the stats are skewed by games he has played as an actual forward.
Your stats are worthless.
Alright, so because he doesn't just chill in the opposition half as much as Marcus Rashford and Alejandro Garnacho, he's not an attacking player.
And my stats are worthless.
We definitely need two high quality wing back signings. I keep seeing us linked to midfielders, which is understandable, but in my opinion, we don't have enough wingbacks who can actually play the position well enough.
We barely have one
I’m disappointed with Dorgu - I thought he’d break out this year. He started out well but evened out. People are so annoyed they’re asking for shaw to play there. The lad can’t run anymore.
Tend to agree with you. However, it was definitely true in the Everton game.
The isolated striker up front being marked by our three CBs was a problem and one Ruben needs to fix.
The simple version of this point is: if Amorim came in and had Ten Hag’s squad only, whose coaching would yield better results ?
We’ve added better players, that’s not in dispute. Those same better players would have played better for Ten Hag. However, all these changes were made because they believe Amorim would be the key difference in making us a contender — has he? No. Then people say just buy more and more better players until we have the best collection. So what’s the purpose of Amorim?
The next 3 games he needs at least 7 points from imo.
I don’t think you’ll currently get a much easier set of fixtures than West Ham (H), Wolves (A), Bournemouth (H) - Bournemouth are in dire form.
I don’t think you’ll currently get a much easier set of fixtures than West Ham (H), Wolves (A), Bournemouth (H) - Bournemouth are in dire form.
He's too slow and lacks the engine needed to play that role. Top wing-backs cover more ground than any other player on the pitch.
My opinion, there's no chance of that happening. Firstly because we need to spend £150 million in midfield, and secondly because I don't think the club will sanction that kind of money on players who might not then fit into a back 4 system, if they sack Amorim.
We barely have one
I’m disappointed with Dorgu - I thought he’d break out this year. He started out well but evened out. People are so annoyed they’re asking for shaw to play there. The lad can’t run anymore.
He's not good enough. Good athlete but his final ball is appalling. Squad player.
Completely agree.
It is very hard to point to any/many players that have dramatically improved under Amorim.
Step one should be to make the most of what you got. Amorim wasnt able to do that in season one, but it is also hard to judge given he also made them change to an unfamiliar system.
I have seen many managers lose one off games... I have seen the best ever manager lose games too.
Its funny you use good will but your post you said... based on 1 single result he should be sacked?
Which one is it? IMO even squad players should be required to be "good enough".
There is no other manager that would persist with a wing back system, when he doesn't have one specialist or experienced wing back.
The percentiles vs different positions show the exact opposite of the point you're trying to make.
vs wingers:
vs fullbacks:
The areas he's getting the ball are clearly more typical of a winger.
I think the term you're both looking for is "wingback".
And that’s where the frustration seeps in, because Amorim appears too stubborn to recognise this and make adjustments based on those very obvious limitations. Instead we’ll keep playing with the likes of Dalot or Dorgu positioned as one of our most advanced players, as if they’re suddenly going to become an incisive attacking force. Most of us already know that’s just not going to happen.
Contender for what exactly? Europe?
They absolutely would not be better under Ten Hag, that's hilarious given how we looked in his last season.
And just so it’s clear, I blame Ineos more than Amorim. They knew Amorim was going to play this way, which meant specialist wingbacks, and the squad had none. They bought Dorgu then two #10s, so we still don’t have the pieces to assemble this puzzle. But as you said, no one has improved and a few have gotten worse under Amorim’s regime.
Breathtaking incompetence from Ineos.