Good for you to confirm you are anti-Amorim and nothing to do with judging his results this season and improvement. Or understanding any context.
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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Good for you to confirm you are anti-Amorim and nothing to do with judging his results this season and improvement. Or understanding any context.
That's good
So did you watch alot of Brentford?
Guys I’m no fan of Amorim and I have serious doubts he has the right character and leadership skills to be successful at the top level no matter who we buy.
However, the league table does not lie. Goals and points matter. Style, shape and entertainment can all take a back seat for now. We need goals and points and the fact is we are getting some. Not quite enough but some. We are within reach of a European place and we would have all taken that at the start of the season.
Fingers crossed we can stumble along and qualify for Europe. The world may then be much different. Perhaps that would allow our squad transformation to accelerate and then we could return to regular top four finishes.
Goals and points are what we need and Amorim is on the verge of achieving that.
However, the league table does not lie. Goals and points matter. Style, shape and entertainment can all take a back seat for now. We need goals and points and the fact is we are getting some. Not quite enough but some. We are within reach of a European place and we would have all taken that at the start of the season.
Fingers crossed we can stumble along and qualify for Europe. The world may then be much different. Perhaps that would allow our squad transformation to accelerate and then we could return to regular top four finishes.
Goals and points are what we need and Amorim is on the verge of achieving that.
I used to go regularly to Brentford and thought they were great, especially given budgets and most years selling their best player or even more than one. They played nice football, good build ups, and generally outperformed. I thought Frank would be on our list, and indeed it seems Ratcliffe interviewed him. I would not have had him top but as a PL proven manager who clearly had a strong bond with players and got a lot out of them, I would personally have put him ahead of Amorim. Mainly as I would have expected him to get the most out of the squad available. He's found it tough at Spurs, that's for sure. Though I believe his win rate is still higher than Amorim, and judging after 4 months seems harsh. As the other poster I don't watch Spurs much but my sense is their squad is poor and missing a couple of key players.
As for your earlier post, you said 'some fans want to back the manager'. I am afraid I never have and never will get this obsession with backing the manager above all else. As someone who watched United for many years before Fergie arrived, maybe I view the whole manager cult thing differently. I would say I support the club rather than any one individual, be it player or manager. I get far move involved and excited by individual players than a manager. The sooner the fan base moves on from this messiah obsession I think it will be better. I can guarantee one thing, neither Amorim or the manager that follows will win the PL. We are so far off that, it will take years to rebuild squad and we need the youth system to start working again, its my biggest concern at the moment that it seems broken. But most of all, It doesn't make someone a better fan by saying they back the manager.
It’s difficult to compare how managers like Glasner and Iraola are doing in comparison to Amorim, because their clubs are much smaller and very well run. That makes it easier to do their job and they’re under much less pressure. Bournemouth are on a terrible run of form, but there’s no real scrutiny, because it’s Bournemouth.
Frank is a much better parallel because Spurs are a bit of a basket case like us and whilst not as big, are much, much bigger than Bournemouth and Palace. Is Amorim “the man”? Don’t know. But we’ve been an absolute sh*tshow behind the scenes for over a decade and have put together a dreadful, hodge podge squad that’s, for one thing, way below the physical standards required to compete in the Premier League.
Any manager, be it Pep, Klopp or whomever, would take at least a couple of seasons to get us challenging because it goes beyond the dugout. It does feel like we’re on the slow road to recovery, but there’s no point in having instability in the manager’s office whilst we fix other issues and the makeup of the squad.
If he ends up getting sacked, and he well yet might, whomever comes in will be much better setup to succeed from both a squad and infrastructure perspective. Will both be best in class? Don’t know, but I’d argue that alongside Everton, prior to their takeover, we were the worst run club in the Premier League only kept afloat by having a lot more money than most. Amorim in, Amorim out, it doesn’t matter, it’s not a quick fix either way.
Frank is a much better parallel because Spurs are a bit of a basket case like us and whilst not as big, are much, much bigger than Bournemouth and Palace. Is Amorim “the man”? Don’t know. But we’ve been an absolute sh*tshow behind the scenes for over a decade and have put together a dreadful, hodge podge squad that’s, for one thing, way below the physical standards required to compete in the Premier League.
Any manager, be it Pep, Klopp or whomever, would take at least a couple of seasons to get us challenging because it goes beyond the dugout. It does feel like we’re on the slow road to recovery, but there’s no point in having instability in the manager’s office whilst we fix other issues and the makeup of the squad.
If he ends up getting sacked, and he well yet might, whomever comes in will be much better setup to succeed from both a squad and infrastructure perspective. Will both be best in class? Don’t know, but I’d argue that alongside Everton, prior to their takeover, we were the worst run club in the Premier League only kept afloat by having a lot more money than most. Amorim in, Amorim out, it doesn’t matter, it’s not a quick fix either way.
Sure but why waste time, you'll just deny it anyway.I'm waiting for multiple quotes of me 'jumping on' 'everybody' who criticises Amorim. Should be loads right?
The vast majority of mine are just responding to posters like you jumping on my posts because they aren't baying for Amorim to be sacked.
Every single one of those managers was sacked before Amorim and with better records to boot.
I'm Amorim out and it has everything to do with the way his team has played throughout his tenure, which I don't consider to be good enough to get the club to where it needs to be. It's inflexible and somehow both overly negative and leaking like a sieve. I can easily defend my position.
How do you defend labelling Frank a failure already and still backing Amorim? This is the same Spurs that finished four points behind us last season, who have a way tougher schedule than us with European football (thanks to Amorim's shite management in the final last season) and with a manager that hasn't yet had a full year to implement his ideas unlike Amorim. But Frank is already a failure and Amorim isn't for no other reason than, and these are your condescending words: "some fans want to back the manager".
I'll deny making the multiple posts you can show of me 'jumping on' 'everybody'?
It's a waste of time because you've just made a false claim and now you can't back it up.
If by around 3 in 10 you mean 6 in 13 then yeah.
I can easily defend my position as well. I understood last season was a complete separate issue, due to various reasons, picking over a squad that was poor, concentrating on EL over PL, lack of players in the squad.
Frank is failing... but alot of people on here were saying he is a much better fit and how good he is and doesn't need to spend millions and can get the best out the players.
This is also the same Spurs that beat us 4 times last season. Interestingly, you mention hasn't had a year... so when did you want Amorim out?
Thomas Frank came in and picked up a EL winning team, a club in the CL.
Stumbling into Europe isn't good enough, want to actually see this manager is preparing us for playing in Europe with good performances over 90 minutes in the Premier League. With loads of time for preparation in between games. That Everton game is still a huge red flag in this context for me.
So if you think a 1 manager (Frank) builds up well, can outperform regularly, and another manager (Amorim) is rubbish, cannot get the best out of anyone, plays most the squad out of position... based on that who do you think will be higher in the table? Which of those managers is low on many of the metrics?
Interesting... so when is it not harsh to judge the manager? Didn't you want Amorim to be sacked last season? So judging Frank after 4 months is harsh but wanting Amorim out in 5/6 is perfectly reasonable?
Missing players... I see you were saying the same last season when we had injuries right?
I back the manager to a point I have seen improvements this season, I understand the context to last season's problems rather than blind backing the manager. When did I say, a fan can only be one way..? each to their own. You prefer being player power, I want to back the manager to come good and create a culture.
I have seen plenty reports from various journalists talking about how different the atmosphere at the club is.
They have two points less than us. This is in comparison to Amorim’s best period. The spell of form that is supposed to make us forget what happened last season. To forget getting knocked out of the League Cup by Grimsby. Without having to contend with European games and more time to prepare and concentrate on league games.
So in your logic... all teams that don't have Europe should finish above teams that in Europe?
Its so weird having a discussion with you, you seem unable to understand simple points and then make up things to argue about. Lets keep it really simple. Brentford played good football most of the time under Frank (I went to quite a few of their home games over a two year period) and based on spend I would say he considerably outperformed in terns of league position and net spend/ wages etc. Do you really disagree?
I do think judging Frank after 4 months is harsh given the league finish of Spurs last season and their mess of a squad and poor transfer window. Sure he may fail, expectations are different and the structure at Brentford is clearly far better than Spurs, but I think its too early to say.
I was nervous about Amorim from the outset given his very fixed system approach, an approach that no other top managers show. After the worst run of results in the club's history, yes I wanted him gone last season.
The trouble with 'top reds' is that being true fans they always have some unique perspective the rest of us lack. In this case you 'understand the context to last season's problems', which means of course the rest of us don't. I would suggest that management 101 is to get the best out of what is at your disposal whilst heading in a preferred direction over time. That is the mantra of pretty much every top manager. Sure we are better this season than last, but can that really be the bar we set when last season was the worst from any United manager since 1931? If se we can never really agree about what this club should expect from its managers. And at the very least, I expect entertaining and exciting football. I simply don't see that a core element of Amorim's system.
In the areas where the players need to be multi-dimensional, I think Palace do.
Their 3 cb’s are better at defending AND stepping into MF than ours are, also more comfortable covering the flanks.
Their wingbacks are better than ours at defending AND attacking, whereas ours can predominantly only do one (sometimes).
Mateta is currently a better CF than Sesko or JZ.
Wharton is a better all round CM than Bruno (but not a better 10).
Where our players lack the multidimensional ability to step into other areas, it exponentially exposes other areas of the pitch/players.
This isn’t a defence of Amorim, or a vilification of the players, just an observation that so called ‘lesser’ teams than ours are levelling the playing field because their ‘lesser’ players are more multidimensional than ours, therefore able to play more fluidly and cohesively as a unit.
You reckon they looked better the last game?
So he only managed us this season?
Last season counts too, that's the whole reason we buy and sell players - because we judge then on their previous season. Managers are the same.
That's a fair take. I think it only supports the view that we are playing a formation that hinder us from getting the best out of our players.
People can argue that it's all fluid and formations doesn't matter, but facts are we don't have good wingbacks and our midfielders will be much better in a 3.
Depends on your goals. It’s a shyte squad and not down to Amorim. If you target mid table mediocrity then yes bending to player power in the hope with will try harder by getting their own way. Or whether we are Manchester United our target is regular top 2. We do things our way and if you’re not good enough you sling your hook. The fact the cupboard is bare is the biggest issue. Ineos is turning out to be a f**king disaster as they have no money either. What the f*ck was Sir Jim thinking?
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Oh right, so if someone disagrees with you and points to your hypocrisy, I am unable to understand. It was very simple...
1. You think 4 months is too soon to judge Spurs based on the following "I do think judging Frank after 4 months is harsh given the league finish of Spurs last season and their mess of a squad and poor transfer window." but it was fair to judge Amorim after 5/6 months, where we had a mess of a squad and poor transfers, joining mid way through a season.
Let me ask you a simple question, in your opinion, is it easier or harder to take over a job mid way through a season?
So, like you said you wanted Amorim gone last season, so what you are saying is you want Amorim sacked because you dont like him? If you were consistent with your points, you wouldn't be a hyporcite and say... 4 months is too soon to judge a manager? when you did.
In respects to Brentford... he overperformed based on what? a manager has come in who has never managed, taking over an overperforming manager, lost the club captain, lost 2 of the best players and performing very similarly? Not really overperforming is it?
No, it doesn't mean you don't understand... you chose to ignore it. You judged Amorim after months at the club, but then now are telling me you cant judge a manager after months... its unfair?? I mean make up your mind first.
It’s been a while. I had temporarily forgot that you will ignore anything actually asked and make up an argument.
My logic is that it is stupid to call Frank a failure based on a start that has him only two points behind us when we’re supposed to believe Amorim is finally showing his worth.
Further to the European football point, it’s a commonly held opinion that juggling additional games and travel etc makes it more difficult to perform in the league. Do you know one of the people who hold that opinion? Ruben Amorim.
No doubt you’ll come back and ask me something along the lines of, does that mean you were happy when we sold Jaap Stam?
Another point on Frank at Spurs. He has improved results from the man he took over from. Amorim did the opposite.
Is this squad actually better served playing a 4-3-3? Our midfield might have more control with Mainoo involved, but our lack of depth in that department would maybe even be more exposed.
I don't think we have natural wingers to suit the formation, not that Cunha, Mbeumo, Amad are incapable, but think they're better suited to playing as the #10s (or RWB in Amad's case) where they're more able to connect and combine with others. I suspect our wingbacks would be better served playing as FBs.
I believe sacking Amorim after Grimsby would've been justified. Once that didn't happen giving a real run of matches to evaluate him also was logical. Based on what we've seen so far I'm ambivalent about his ultimate future here, but I believe right now he's got us performing about at the level I expected coming into the season with some great results and horrible lows mixed in. I suspect the period between now and the end of AFCON will make or break his time here.
I believe whoever took over after ETH would've needed time to get us performing at an acceptable level in the league while also pushing in Europe with the squad we had available. You can't completely fail in the market like we did in summer 2021, 2022, and 2023 and not pay the price with results at some point, regardless of who the manager is. The quality and depth in the squad was horrendous last season and still remains a work in progress.
I don't think we have natural wingers to suit the formation, not that Cunha, Mbeumo, Amad are incapable, but think they're better suited to playing as the #10s (or RWB in Amad's case) where they're more able to connect and combine with others. I suspect our wingbacks would be better served playing as FBs.
I believe sacking Amorim after Grimsby would've been justified. Once that didn't happen giving a real run of matches to evaluate him also was logical. Based on what we've seen so far I'm ambivalent about his ultimate future here, but I believe right now he's got us performing about at the level I expected coming into the season with some great results and horrible lows mixed in. I suspect the period between now and the end of AFCON will make or break his time here.
I believe whoever took over after ETH would've needed time to get us performing at an acceptable level in the league while also pushing in Europe with the squad we had available. You can't completely fail in the market like we did in summer 2021, 2022, and 2023 and not pay the price with results at some point, regardless of who the manager is. The quality and depth in the squad was horrendous last season and still remains a work in progress.
No, he managed us last season as well, it was horrendously bad. This season it's been much improved. If Hojlund had started the season with 12 Goals this year would you of wanted him sold based off last season? He warranted being Sacked last year. He wasn't. This year he doesn't deserve to be sacked.
Is it not a sign that Ruben and the team are improving? Isn't that what we want?
5 wins in the last 8 ain't bad
Probably nothing… what people don’t understand is for a team like us it’s a lot different… he can’t be playing counter attack. We have to be dominant and a lot of managers struggle to adapt at bigger clubs. We’ve seen it numerous times
Even if you look past last season, he's still bad for our standards. His ingame management is terrible, boring football and he has us midtable.
No one has said Amorim is showing his worth.. are you making up things again? So your logic is that Frank can't be called a failure because he is 2 points off United?
So if I use your logic again... why are you wanting Amorim sacked when he is 1 point of CL places.. or do points only count when it suits your agenda?
Its funny with you... called out Amorim in March... few months from taking over.. but its stupid to call out another manager for that time frame. Huh.. shows the agenda.
Yes, that is why the title winners over the last 10 years have all had European football? Amorim said this team is not ready to play European football and PL, not that its hard to do.. he was talking about the current team.
Its interesting that Arsenal are top of PL and CL table... its not a direct science that playing in europe = bad in the league.
If you invest properly in the squad... there is no issue.
It's very needed, surely there's some diamond in the rough they can unearth to handle the shortcomings that are evident week after week. Many of us would be disappointed if no transfer is done in January to address it.
Come on Amorim. Go for the second win back to back for only the second time at United.
Feels so weird saying this. I took Fergie and United absolutely for granted.
Absolute doldrums of a club. But hopeful we climb out of this hell hole.
Feels so weird saying this. I took Fergie and United absolutely for granted.
Absolute doldrums of a club. But hopeful we climb out of this hell hole.
No, my logic is that YOU can’t excuse a manager who has a worse record over his tenure and call the one with the better record a failure. I can, if I choose to, because I said Amorim was a failure, hence for me there is no double standard. Do you understand now?
If something isn’t hard to do, then why can’t this team do it? Do you actually sit and think about what you’re saying before you hit reply?
There isn’t a person in the game who wouldn’t say that juggling more than one competition is more challenging than concentrating on one. You’re arguing against logic. Which isn’t a huge surprise.
I’m not the one that makes things up around here. That’s why multiple people call you out on it.
He has us 3 points off 2nd in 7th, weird to describe it as Midtable.
What are we expecting Lacey to debut as ? A 10 or a wing back ?
I see this often, "we are x points off x position".
We are 7th, he's won less that half the matches with a +1 GD.
You think that's good enough?
Definitely a 10. He doesn't have the pace, physicality or athleticism to play anywhere else.