Ruben Amorim | 2025-26

[RedSky]

I've said it before - the club better back him in January with a signing or two. The league is open - despite how dire and topsy-turvy we've been - we're knocking on CL doors.
No point keeping him if we're just going to tell him "this is what you get" as unless individual brilliance gets us out of messes when the team ain't playing well, we'll rue finishing lower than we should.

Get a CM to cover Casemiro, especially given Ugarte seems like he's not in Amorim's plans, and maybe a reliable forward if Zirkzee leaves who has a reputation of being clincal.

We should 100% get a CM in. Doesn't matter if Amorim stays or not, we're in desperate need for one and with the league so open this year we have a very realistic chance of getting CL football.

Question is, does INEOS have the ambition as they clearly didn't last year.

 

[Raoul]

Not even I would have complaints about that. Would be an excellent finish after last season, he'd have earned massive backing by that

In that scenario that’s the only reasonable thing to do. He’d have earned it.

Indeed. CL qualification alone is worth anywhere between £85-110m, so if he manages to get us back in next year, that's a massive amount of extra money that comes into the club, a large swath of which could be applied to transfers.

 

[RedSky]

Agreed. I predicted we will finish 3rd, which if that happens, will cause Ratcliffe and Berrada to massively double down on Ruben during the summer window.

I'd be very surprised if we get 3rd. Realistically top 5 is achievable though. I think we'll get stronger as the season progresses as we should be fresher than others. Our three new forwards should also gradually improve too with more time.

I'll be disappointed if we don't finish top 5 at the very least.

 

[Raoul]

We should 100% get a CM in. Doesn't matter if Amorim stays or not, we're in desperate need for one and with the league so open this year we have a very realistic chance of getting CL football.

Question is, does INEOS have the ambition as they clearly didn't last year.

They correctly prioritized our weakest area last summer (goals) by going big on three new attackers, which prevented them from addressing midfield. I suspect the opposite will happen next summer with two new midfielders and a top quality LWB being the main priorities.

 

[Raoul]

I'd be very surprised if we get 3rd. Realistically top 5 is achievable though. I think we'll get stronger as the season progresses as we should be fresher than others. Our three new forwards should also gradually improve too with more time.

I'll be disappointed if we don't finish top 5 at the very least.

Yeah, as long as we qualify for the CL, I don't care where we finish between 3 and 5. Its the money and ability to attract top players who want to play in the CL next summer that should be the main priority.

 

[dirkey]

Agreed. I predicted we will finish 3rd, which if that happens, will cause Ratcliffe and Berrada to massively double down on Ruben during the summer window.

Would love it. Can you still see that happening with him in charge? Because I really can't

 

[dirkey]

They correctly prioritized our weakest area last summer (goals) by going big on three new attackers, which prevented them from addressing midfield. I suspect the opposite will happen next summer with two new midfielders and a top quality LWB being the main priorities.

Disagree with you here. Should have signed one of mbuemo and cunha, left Bruno in his best spot and signed a cm.

 

[Raoul]

Would love it. Can you still see that happening with him in charge? Because I really can't

Can i see us finishing 3rd ? Given we're on the cusp of a CL spot in December is a good sign that we can do it. But as I said above, if 5th gets us into the CL, then I don't think anyone would complain.

 

[Raoul]

Disagree with you here. Should have signed one of mbuemo and cunha, left Bruno in his best spot and signed a cm.

Hard to disagree with that given how Cunha hasn't really shown us the level of quality he displayed at Wolves. We could've kept Garnacho or Rashford and applied the money elsewhere if those two didn't run afoul of Amorim at various times last year. Suspect we would've probably broken the bank to get Baleba if that happened, which given his performances this year, may not have been the best solution to midfield.

 

[dirkey]

Can i see us finishing 3rd ? Given we're on the cusp of a CL spot in December is a good sign that we can do it. But as I said above, if 5th gets us into the CL, then I don't think anyone would complain.

I hope you're right. I really can't see it. I see no signs of major progress caused by amorim. We've bought better players, so our team is doing slightly better. It's a down year in the pl. That's the only reason we're currently in touch. Can't imagine all the other sides will continue to struggle. Don't create enough and we're about to lose our creative hub down the right for a month.

 

[dirkey]

Hard to disagree with that given how Cunha hasn't really shown us the level of quality he displayed at Wolves. We could've kept Garnacho or Rashford and applied the money elsewhere if those two didn't run afoul of Amorim at various times last year. Suspect we would've probably broken the bank to get Baleba if that happened, which given his performances this year, may not have been the best solution to midfield.

Funnily enough though, if you'd asked me in the summer, I'd have preferred to sign cunha over mbuemo. But the latter has been far better. I'm not overly concerned though. Cunha's class will show soon.

 

[gaffs]

We should 100% get a CM in. Doesn't matter if Amorim stays or not, we're in desperate need for one and with the league so open this year we have a very realistic chance of getting CL football.

Question is, does INEOS have the ambition as they clearly didn't last year.

Let's say a midfielder comes in, even Anderson or Wharton, and Casemiro comes out. Does it really lift the overall level that much?

I still think we will have issues moving the ball through midfield when its 2 v 3 in most games. I think with two in midfield, Amorim is already conceding that area of the pitch, whoever is in there, with the idea of getting the ball wide asap.

I feel the biggest January impact signing would be a left wing back.

 

[dinostar77]

In possesion yes and in the press. Never as the main shape to defend our goal and for good reason. Too many people over estimate the flaws in our squad for that system and just attribute them to previous manager failure.

Also stat man Dave's videos are brilliant

Agreed. There's a method to the madness, but we don't have the right players currently for it. Its like peak City/Barcelona under guardiola playing death by a thousand passes football. If he didn't have the right elite players with the technical ability it wouldn't work.

With help of Statman Dave videos, I'm starting to understand what the end goal is and if we can get there. It will be very difficult to counter the system.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Agreed. There's a method to the madness, but we don't have the right players currently for it. Its like peak City/Barcelona under guardiola playing death by a thousand passes football. If he didn't have the right elite players with the technical ability it wouldn't work.

With help of Statman Dave videos, I'm starting to understand what the end goal is and if we can get there. It will be very difficult to counter the system.

Indeed. In attack the set up is the same 3-2-5/3-6-1 everyone uses with back 4 systems. Difference is he sets up that way from the begining in possesion. Then has the extra security of 5 options in defending to see off opposing 3-2-5 shapes rather than simply having "5 defenders". Honestly when the system gets the optimum players many folks will eat loads of humble pie.

 

[sp_cgb]

Honestly when the system gets the optimum players many folks will eat loads of humble pie.

Well, you would hope so. The problem in that equation is, that we will have to finish high enough in the league to realistically attract the level of players needed. If we continue to lose ground on our traditional rivals and cede further ground to teams like Newcastle and Villa we will only get second and third grade picks. Anderson+Wharton and an amazing left wing back is what we need to aim for. No more half-baked, unambitious slop.

Do something in January as well. Shoring up at least one area, where we are currently weak, might go a long way of achieving a good finish this season.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Well, you would hope so. The problem in that equation is, that we will have to finish high enough in the league to realistically attract the level of players needed. If we continue to lose ground on our traditional rivals and cede further ground to teams like Newcastle and Villa we will only get second and third grade picks. Anderson+Wharton and an amazing left wing back is what we need to aim for. No more half-baked, unambitious slop.

Do something in January as well. Shoring up at least one area, where we are currently weak, might go a long way of achieving a good finish this season.

Fair enough.
IMHO. We need very good players who suit the system. Not stars. The real worry we had before was cash, even this coming January. Not attracting power. Even better now with SCR kicking, we will not be financially hamstrung anymore. Only thing that can stump us now is how good or bad our recruitment is from next summer

 

[r0663664]

It is hard to think Amorim can get us into top 5. Teams are dropping points left, right and centre. Liverpool could start winning games and start climbing up the table. We should have at least 5 more points and further up the table. We will likely start dropping point in the upcoming game that we will end up between 10-13 places. If Amorim can somehow beat Aston Villa and Newcastle then securing top 4-5 looks more realistic.

 

[stevoc]

Log off, they aren't attacking players & we need more quality to offer depth in quality. Especially on cases off in season tournaments like AFCON or injury issues.

Take your own advice and stop spouting nonsense mate.

Most you can't comprehend that and like to criticise the manager for subbing on senior defensive players instead off playing some players out of position just because all subs have to be "attacking".

They do when you're losing a game, it's not rocket science mate.

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

And none of them is a good enough CM for Manchester United. The difference being one of them is a 20 year super talented homegrown CM, the others are not.

I agree the midfielder issue is a massive issue for United. One of the downfalls for the manager as we needed to buy someone.

But that doesn’t change anything about the homegrown being better than the starters.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Some stats can hide the truth. Is that because we’ve been good? Or because other teams have been very poor? I think the latter. Not one team other than Arsenal have been consistent.

Yes, maybe the league is just becoming more balanced. But I genuinely think this is just the worst the quality of the Prem has been in quite a few years. Arsenal look to me like the only legitimately good team and even they're not THAT good.

 

[eiknaldo]

We wont win a title while stuck to one system from kickoff to fulltime of every single game no matter how much money we spend on new players and even if we could we cant afford all the players he would need to do that.

How do we know when we don't try?

 

[George The Best]

Disagree with you here. Should have signed one of mbuemo and cunha, left Bruno in his best spot and signed a cm.

Absolutely spot on. That would have been the best move, especially if we get a new manager in to play a sensible system. Instead we are more likely to splash cash on another wingback to suit a crap formation.

 

[RedRocket9908]

How do we know when we don't try?

No club has ever won a title while stuck to 1 system from kickoff to fulltime of every game

 

[DJ_21]

Yes, maybe the league is just becoming more balanced. But I genuinely think this is just the worst the quality of the Prem has been in quite a few years. Arsenal look to me like the only legitimately good team and even they're not THAT good.

Arsenal probably have the strongest and most balanced squad. They’ve got quality all over the pitch. City just use their firepower to bail them out in games as they have a bad defence. Chelsea are just a mess with to many players for each position. We need to fix our midfield and wing backs.

 

[DJ_21]

I think we need to try a back line with Martinez and heaven together. Them 2 are the only 2 CBs we have that play it forward and break through the lines with their passing. All the others still have an habit of sideways passing. To make this system work better and our build up work better then we need players like them.

 

[bil48d]

Always the same story with the Amorim disciples.

If we win, and you say you want him sacked: 'Why are you being so negative, he can only beat what's in front of him, we have xxx points from the last xxx games' (the exact number that portrays Amorim in the best possible light of course) and 'I bet you're so angry we won today, you just want us to lose so you can be right on redcafe'.

If we lose, and you say you want him sacked: 'Stop kneejerking' and 'You only post after a bad result'.

Basically, win or lose, the fanatics aint interested in any arguments for sacking him. They just want you to shut up. Good result or bad, it's always some variant of 'stop posting'. If we win you're just angry and bitter that he's 'proven you wrong', and if we lose then you're having an emotional outburst at a disappointing result.

Still want him sacked btw. He could have won 10-1 and it'd change nothing.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

Always the same story with the Amorim disciples.

If we win, and you say you want him sacked: 'Why are you being so negative, he can only beat what's in front of him, we have xxx points from the last xxx games' (the exact number that portrays Amorim in the best possible light of course) and 'I bet you're so angry we won today, you just want us to lose so you can be right on redcafe'.

If we lose, and you say you want him sacked: 'Stop kneejerking' and 'You only post after a bad result'.

Basically, win or lose, the fanatics aint interested in any arguments for sacking him. They just want you to shut up. Good result or bad, it's always some variant of 'stop posting'. If we win you're just angry and bitter that he's 'proven you wrong', and if we lose then you're having an emotional outburst at a disappointing result.

Still want him sacked btw. He could have won 10-1 and it'd change nothing.

Absolute carcrash of a post

 

[Fortitude]

Always the same story with the Amorim disciples.

If we win, and you say you want him sacked: 'Why are you being so negative, he can only beat what's in front of him, we have xxx points from the last xxx games' (the exact number that portrays Amorim in the best possible light of course) and 'I bet you're so angry we won today, you just want us to lose so you can be right on redcafe'.

If we lose, and you say you want him sacked: 'Stop kneejerking' and 'You only post after a bad result'.

Basically, win or lose, the fanatics aint interested in any arguments for sacking him. They just want you to shut up. Good result or bad, it's always some variant of 'stop posting'. If we win you're just angry and bitter that he's 'proven you wrong', and if we lose then you're having an emotional outburst at a disappointing result.

Still want him sacked btw. He could have won 10-1 and it'd change nothing.

I'm not going to repeat myself; stop using terms such as these. Every instance will be warned from now on. disparaging others in this manner is not on.

 

[Scofield92]

It is practically impossible to look at this season in isolation as the ghost of last season's misery that haunts Amorim would only have been exorcised by a near perfect start to this season, so bad it was. Alas, the unpardonable league position of last season has been exacerbated by some truly bad results i.e Grimsby. And just as Grimsby-gate was almost forgotten, Everton happened, then west ham.

It is therefore absolutely justified for the fans that want the manager gone to refuse to entertain the thought of looking at this season in isolation and to contemplate the stats and facts of this season in isolation. I.e

1) We were between 1st, 2nd or 3rd in expected goals/xG earlier in the season, which was mostly dismissed as a meaningless stat. Turns out it was not meaningless after all, because as has been mentioned we are currently 3rd in goals scored, 26 goals scored, 2 less than table toppers Arsenal who have scored 28 goals.
So to say there has been absolutely no improvement is surely denying the reality that we have clearly improved in the goal scoring department, have we not? Do we really have to perform mental gymnastics just to discredit the team and diminish this improvement.

2) We have lost 4 games, same number as 2nd place Man city and Chelsea(4), 1 more than 3rd placed Aston Villa(3) and only 2 more than table toppers Arsenal(2).
Doesn't this suggest that we have not been that much worse than the other big teams?

3) Ruben Amorim won only 7 games out of 24 premier league games last season, an abysmal record. As a club we won 11 games out of 38.
This season He has won 7 games out of 15.
This is not epic performance by any stretch of the imagination for a team as big as Man united. But to suggest their is no improvement at all, is just plain dishonest.

4) We have had some truly awful games this season. However as much as we were shocking against Grimsby, Everton and west ham, we won at Anfield, we won or drew games that we lost last season, home to Brighton ( lost last season), away to Forest (lost), away to spurs(lost), away to Palace (lost), away to wolves (lost), we beat Chelsea which seems praise worthy now because league leaders Arsenal failed to beat then when they were down to 10 men, and we also comfortably beat what has proven to be a pretty stubborn Sunderland.
For a team that finished 15th and was absolutely terrible last season, is it outrageous to suggest there has atleast been an improvement?

The team is terribly inconsistent as can be seen by the flactuating results. But isn't that in and of itself in some rose-tinted reality progress from being utterly abysmal? By the same token, is it reasonable to expect a team that was an absolute mess and is led by a player and captain who by himself has always been mr inconsistent, to be become consistent so quickly without suffering some really embarrassing results.
Even Man city went through the same growing pains under Guardiola.
Maybe I am just too glass half full.

 

[stepic]

Absolute carcrash of a post

Check out the Mainoo thread for some more classics from him.

 

[Linerarms]

It is hard to think Amorim can get us into top 5. Teams are dropping points left, right and centre. Liverpool could start winning games and start climbing up the table. We should have at least 5 more points and further up the table. We will likely start dropping point in the upcoming game that we will end up between 10-13 places. If Amorim can somehow beat Aston Villa and Newcastle then securing top 4-5 looks more realistic.

Amorin is becoming more and more tetchy during interviews, the pressure of the job seems way too much for him. 9 other teans
n the premier league are playing European football, having to travel and play 2 games a week. We play once a week at most that is the reason we are 6th at the moment.if we qualify for Europe next season the drop off in our league form will be obvious for all to see. Amorin is not the man to lead this club to glory on multiple fronts, he can barely manage one front and his treatment of young players is not very good he has no patience with them

 

[Dansk]

Absolute carcrash of a post

He's not really wrong, though. This club's fanbase definitely contains an element of "criticism of the manager is always automatically incorrect no matter what, and you should be ashamed." Even when things are at the lowest point in our lifetime and the current manager is one of the worst we've ever had (based on win rate), all criticism is always followed by responses that more or less say that it isn't permitted. Even if there are more who are against Amorim than for, I can't think of any other club where a meaningful segment of the fans would still be defending the manager to the hilt when things are this bad.

It's only because this is a freak season with a very narrow points spread that we're still within mathematical reach of an acceptable placement. In almost any other season, we would have been dead in the water since autumn and then it would mean two consecutive seasons down the drain under Amorim, with no real signs of noteworthy improvements to justify a call for patience.

Since many of the problems are demonstrably caused by him and not circumstances beyond his control, it's baffling to see a not-insignificant portion of the fanbase still insisting that it's irrational to criticize him. It's one thing to want him to stay, that's just a matter of opinion; but the whole "how can you possibly be against him?!" is what's so nauseating, and it's easy to suspect that the presence of that vocal segment of the fanbase plays a role in the club's inaction.

 

[zevun]

Disagree with you here. Should have signed one of mbuemo and cunha, left Bruno in his best spot and signed a cm.

Agree with this, especially with the benefit of hindsight since Sesko is not even a guaranteed starter.

 

[Witchking]

Always the same story with the Amorim disciples.

If we win, and you say you want him sacked: 'Why are you being so negative, he can only beat what's in front of him, we have xxx points from the last xxx games' (the exact number that portrays Amorim in the best possible light of course) and 'I bet you're so angry we won today, you just want us to lose so you can be right on redcafe'.

If we lose, and you say you want him sacked: 'Stop kneejerking' and 'You only post after a bad result'.

Basically, win or lose, the fanatics aint interested in any arguments for sacking him. They just want you to shut up. Good result or bad, it's always some variant of 'stop posting'. If we win you're just angry and bitter that he's 'proven you wrong', and if we lose then you're having an emotional outburst at a disappointing result.

Still want him sacked btw. He could have won 10-1 and it'd change nothing.

Man, i was sold on Amorim and have drastically reduced my expectations post the draws and the loss to Everton. I feel he may not be long at the club, but saying "He could win 10-1 and it'd change nothing" shows you are taking it personally and now blinded by hate. Nothing positive is going to change your mind.

If United won 10-1, my hope would be that it would give him and the players a huge confidence boost, maybe something clicks, some player doubting himself comes out of the shadow and starts performing brilliantly. Maybe some tactics will get tweaked to bring more positive results. Football like any sport can change in an instant, records are meant to be broken and hopefully he proves everyone wrong.

He is a good man and you can see, he is trying his best.

In the meantime, go touch grass and maybe eat some.

 

[Remember the geese]

He's not really wrong, though. This club's fanbase definitely contains an element of "criticism of the manager is always automatically incorrect no matter what, and you should be ashamed." Even when things are at the lowest point in our lifetime and the current manager is one of the worst we've ever had (based on win rate), all criticism is always followed by responses that more or less say that it isn't permitted. Even if there are more who are against Amorim than for, I can't think of any other club where a meaningful segment of the fans would still be defending the manager to the hilt when things are this bad.

It's only because this is a freak season with a very narrow points spread that we're even still within mathematical reach of an acceptable placement. In almost any other season, we would have been dead in the water since autumn and then it would mean two consecutive seasons down the drain under Amorim, with no real signs of noteworthy improvements to justify a call for patience.

Since many of the problems are demonstrably caused by him and not circumstances beyond his control, it's baffling to see a not-insignificant portion of the fanbase still insisting that it's irrational to criticize him. It's one thing to want him to stay, that's just a matter of opinion; but the whole "how can you possibly be against him?!" is what's so nauseating, and it's easy to suspect that the presence of that vocal segment of the fanbase plays a role in the club's inaction.

The funny thing is though, things aren't "this bad". I feel as if some people's heads are still stuck in last season. We've improved a lot since then. Much room for improvement of course, but this season up to now represents progress.

Also, your second paragraph is simply not true. After 15 games last season, 25 points would have you in 5th.

It works both ways. Some have nothing but bad things to say about the manager. Some are overly protective. There is an element of overcompensating on both sides as a reaction to disagreement, depending on your viewpoint.

 

[zevun]

Yes, maybe the league is just becoming more balanced. But I genuinely think this is just the worst the quality of the Prem has been in quite a few years. Arsenal look to me like the only legitimately good team and even they're not THAT good.

Actually you could argue that because there are so many decent managers in the league now compared to 10 to 20 years ago, these managers are able to analyse opposition gameplay and devise measures to counter them. Together with the closing gap in squad quality across teams, this makes results very unpredictable. A comparison of results in the last few years of European football demonstrates that the general quality of English teams are higher -> even those struggling in the Premier League.

 

[zevun]

It is practically impossible to look at this season in isolation as the ghost of last season's misery that haunts Amorim would only have been exorcised by a near perfect start to this season, so bad it was. Alas, the unpardonable league position of last season has been exacerbated by some truly bad results i.e Grimsby. And just as Grimsby-gate was almost forgotten, Everton happened, then west ham.

It is therefore absolutely justified for the fans that want the manager gone to refuse to entertain the thought of looking at this season in isolation and to contemplate the stats and facts of this season in isolation. I.e

1) We were between 1st, 2nd or 3rd in expected goals/xG earlier in the season, which was mostly dismissed as a meaningless stat. Turns out it was not meaningless after all, because as has been mentioned we are currently 3rd in goals scored, 26 goals scored, 2 less than table toppers Arsenal who have scored 28 goals.
So to say there has been absolutely no improvement is surely denying the reality that we have clearly improved in the goal scoring department, have we not? Do we really have to perform mental gymnastics just to discredit the team and diminish this improvement.

2) We have lost 4 games, same number as 2nd place Man city and Chelsea(4), 1 more than 3rd placed Aston Villa(3) and only 2 more than table toppers Arsenal(2).
Doesn't this suggest that we have not been that much worse than the other big teams?

3) Ruben Amorim won only 7 games out of 24 premier league games last season, an abysmal record. As a club we won 11 games out of 38.
This season He has won 7 games out of 15.
This is not epic performance by any stretch of the imagination for a team as big as Man united. But to suggest their is no improvement at all, is just plain dishonest.

4) We have had some truly awful games this season. However as much as we were shocking against Grimsby, Everton and west ham, we won at Anfield, we won or drew games that we lost last season, home to Brighton ( lost last season), away to Forest (lost), away to spurs(lost), away to Palace (lost), away to wolves (lost), we beat Chelsea which seems praise worthy now because league leaders Arsenal failed to beat then when they were down to 10 men, and we also comfortably beat what has proven to be a pretty stubborn Sunderland.
For a team that finished 15th and was absolutely terrible last season, is it outrageous to suggest there has atleast been an improvement?

The team is terribly inconsistent as can be seen by the flactuating results. But isn't that in and of itself in some rose-tinted reality progress from being utterly abysmal? By the same token, is it reasonable to expect a team that was an absolute mess and is led by a player and captain who by himself has always been mr inconsistent, to be become consistent so quickly without suffering some really embarrassing results.
Even Man city went through the same growing pains under Guardiola.
Maybe I am just too glass half full.

Let's look at the matches we've played:
1) Arsenal
2) Fulham
3) Burnley
4) City
5) Chelsea
6) Brentford
7) Sunderland
8) Liverpool
9) Brighton
10) Forest
11) Spurs
12) Everton
13) Palace
14) West Ham
15) Wolves

I think the reason most people are upset (including me) is because we have dropped points in games that we are "supposed" to have won: Brentford, Fulham, Forest, Spurs, Everton, West Ham.
But another way to think about it is, at the start of the season, I'm pretty sure everyone would have expected / been ok if we had lost to Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, because pretty much everyone was expecting us to be below them in the table.
Or to put it another way, many posters tend to say, If only we had beat Everton or Westham or Forest, we would be 2nd. But generally speaking, if we had lost to Arsenal, Chelsea etc, we wouldn't be saying if only we had beat these 4 teams, we would be top of the table. This is basically based on our expectations of results and what we perceive to be strong / weak opposition.

At the start of the season, based on the pre-season posts, I think most people would also have been ok if we finished 5th to 8th as it represented progress. We are currently 6th. So the question is, would you be happier if, based on our current record of 7-4-4, we had the following results:
1) Wins: Fulham, Burnley, Brentford, Forest, Everton, West Ham, Wolves
2) Draws: Sunderland (given how well they're doing this season), Spurs, Brighton, Palace
3) Losses: Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool

From a table POV, the reason we're 6th is because we took points off many top half teams. Mathematically speaking, if we want to finish in Europe, we would be better off dropping points to relegation candidates (who would not be fighting with us for those spots) and taking points off our competitors.

 

[Kostov]

I agree the midfielder issue is a massive issue for United. One of the downfalls for the manager as we needed to buy someone.

But that doesn’t change anything about the homegrown being better than the starters.

You totally missed the point. Mainoo could actually turn out to be good enough if given proper chance, Casemiro won’t and neither will Bruno.

 

[Linerarms]

Let's look at the matches we've played:
1) Arsenal
2) Fulham
3) Burnley
4) City
5) Chelsea
6) Brentford
7) Sunderland
8) Liverpool
9) Brighton
10) Forest
11) Spurs
12) Everton
13) Palace
14) West Ham
15) Wolves

I think the reason most people are upset (including me) is because we have dropped points in games that we are "supposed" to have won: Brentford, Fulham, Forest, Spurs, Everton, West Ham.
But another way to think about it is, at the start of the season, I'm pretty sure everyone would have expected / been ok if we had lost to Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, because pretty much everyone was expecting us to be below them in the table.
Or to put it another way, many posters tend to say, If only we had beat Everton or Westham or Forest, we would be 2nd. But generally speaking, if we had lost to Arsenal, Chelsea etc, we wouldn't be saying if only we had beat these 4 teams, we would be top of the table. This is basically based on our expectations of results and what we perceive to be strong / weak opposition.

At the start of the season, based on the pre-season posts, I think most people would also have been ok if we finished 5th to 8th as it represented progress. We are currently 6th. So the question is, would you be happier if, based on our current record of 7-4-4, we had the following results:
1) Wins: Fulham, Burnley, Brentford, Forest, Everton, West Ham, Wolves
2) Draws: Sunderland (given how well they're doing this season), Spurs, Brighton, Palace
3) Losses: Arsenal, Chelsea, City, Liverpool

From a table POV, the reason we're 6th is because we took points off many top half teams. Mathematically speaking, if we want to finish in Europe, we would be better off dropping points to relegation candidates (who would not be fighting with us for those spots) and taking points off our competitors.

Could you omagine, Barca fans, Real Madrid fans, Bayern and PSG fans talking like that. Imagine their fans if they failed to qualify for any European competition.

Too many of our fans accept mediocracy, being a supporter is not just being a sheep and applauding anything, its also letting people know the last few years have been unacceptable. Producing stats on this that and the other is easy and often misleading

 

[Bright_Eyes]

He's not really wrong, though. This club's fanbase definitely contains an element of "criticism of the manager is always automatically incorrect no matter what, and you should be ashamed." Even when things are at the lowest point in our lifetime and the current manager is one of the worst we've ever had (based on win rate), all criticism is always followed by responses that more or less say that it isn't permitted. Even if there are more who are against Amorim than for, I can't think of any other club where a meaningful segment of the fans would still be defending the manager to the hilt when things are this bad.

It's only because this is a freak season with a very narrow points spread that we're still within mathematical reach of an acceptable placement. In almost any other season, we would have been dead in the water since autumn and then it would mean two consecutive seasons down the drain under Amorim, with no real signs of noteworthy improvements to justify a call for patience.

Since many of the problems are demonstrably caused by him and not circumstances beyond his control, it's baffling to see a not-insignificant portion of the fanbase still insisting that it's irrational to criticize him. It's one thing to want him to stay, that's just a matter of opinion; but the whole "how can you possibly be against him?!" is what's so nauseating, and it's easy to suspect that the presence of that vocal segment of the fanbase plays a role in the club's inaction.

Really disagree with this. Total straw man. Doubt you'll find more than 1-2 people, if that, on the entire forum of thousands, that insist it's irrational to criticise him. You get the odd push back when someone goes too far, and you get the odd person trying to inject a bit of positivity into the place, but there is no "how can you possibly be against him" crowd. That would be insanity, as there is so much fair criticism whichever side you fall on. I haven't seen any of that. Are you sure you're not mistaking the push back against the more extreme posts for this? Can you give some examples? You say that all criticism is followed by responses that say it isn't permitted - that just isn't true at all. Most Amorim talk on here is criticism, and most of it is fair, and the vast majority of it gets no pushback. The problem with the guy who made the post you're referring too is his snide, jeering, poking fun way of referring to people who disagree with him, not his criticism of Amorim.