Rio, Berba, Hargreaves, Becks, even Keane - all much easier to listen to than Neville, Butt, and Scholes. I think part of the problem is the latter three continue to view themselves as endogenous to the club - as if they are shadow owners and executives at United - probably because they're all involved with their own local club and feel like they could easily do better..
Ruben Amorim | 2025-26
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Rio, Berba, Hargreaves, Becks, even Keane - all much easier to listen to than Neville, Butt, and Scholes. I think part of the problem is the latter three continue to view themselves as endogenous to the club - as if they are shadow owners and executives at United - probably because they're all involved with their own local club and feel like they could easily do better..
Exactly! We lack consistency between the games and within games which is expected and comes with time. We brought in a brand new attack which is still to gel and we still have important positions such as midfield and left wing back to be addressed while building squad to make difference from the bench.
Plus this....
Our fundamental problem so far, which if resolved would have us considerably higher up the table, is our new £200m attack hasn't yet produced at the level its capable of.... Cunha has 1 goal in 13 games, Sesko has 2 goals in 12.
Sesko coming late, being gradually introduced because he's new to England, then getting injured creates somewhat of an excuse.
In Cunha's case there simply is no excuse. For a player already accustomed to the league and who scored 17 goals last year, to be on only 1 goal 15 games into the season is indefensible, and is the difference between us being in 6th and probably 3rd or better.
Coming away to United should be seen as tricky. Playing at home to United should still be seen as a tricky game. We aren't some bottom half team, even with Mbeumo missing. Shouldn't be unreasonable to expect us to get close to 70 points come end of season.
Mate, you’re welcome…I didn’t really appreciate the tone of your message to be honest so that was the reaction you unfortunately got. I personally find a number of your posts unnecessarily aggy but that’s just my view. I try not to come in here for an argument as we are still all United fans on the forum despite differences of opinion…& despite the recent travails of United, supporting a club is still meant to be fun…
I did write a long post (as it turns out, I seem to write a lot of long posts…!)…it was in response to someone else. You didn’t have to read it but I appreciate you did. I also didn’t ask you to read my entire post history, I said you might have considered reading the post I was responding to which might have helped you understand certain points that initially made no sense to you so as you say “on forums, it’s not a good idea to make up stuff that people didn’t say”. I think you should take your own advice instead of trying to be clever about the use of a strawman.
Just a couple of points - to be clear, you said you thought the squad is good. I don’t agree but then I don’t know your definition of what constitutes good. I’m judging good by the standards of every United team I’ve watched over the decades. My opinion is I just don’t think it’s that good. With respect, I don’t care that we’ve spent £250 million on it. It needed that just to get us halfway competitive. It still needs so much work. Maybe RA isn’t good enough, time will tell but he definitely won’t be good enough with the squad he had last year and whilst he will be better this year with the new additions, £250 million is spending money to almost stand still. I stand by what I think the squad needs but that’s just me. No idea if Ineos feel the same way but let’s see.
Of course, there’s no guarantee of success whatsoever but what I am pretty sure of is that we will potter along and struggle to challenge for the big pots without further big investment. Just my view…I won’t need an introduction to Ed Woodward for that (ditto, thanks for the condescending comment lol)! There is however a guy on X or whatever the kids call it now called Swiss Ramble who you may find interesting. He makes some great points about the lack of investment in United and in particular, in relation to our competitors. Be warned, he writes long posts too (although his have the benefit of being interesting)!!!
There are a lot of bizarre takes on here. I know from the amateur level that I coach at how difficult it is so I couldn’t even imagine doing it at a club like United and yet there are people posting on here that the Manager has had no input on any of our wins. That was one of my previous points…the Manager does far more than just a game a week. The job is all encompassing, particularly at a club like United, and yet there are posters saying anyone off the street could do a better job.
Finally, there are some that just can’t forgive last season. I’ve moved on from it because I’m old and have other things in my life that take precedence but it still informs a lot of people’s opinions which I get. I think RA inherited a shitshow and it will take a monumental effort to get us back to the top. If he doesn’t perform this season, it may well be his last but I’m going to try and remain broadly hopeful and see where we are in May before I want to see a change. I see enough for now that better days may return…old romantic that I am!
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I like Bruno and I don't understand the hate that he gets from the people but the thing with midfield is that it is the unit that matters more than individual brilliance. One, if we stick with Bruno in midfield, we need a better pairing for him than casemiro who has done better this season than last few seasons but still not a perfect partner at the moment. We will probably need someone like casemiro but with legs to cover for Bruno while covering for the attacking wing backs and someone who can control tempo of the game which Bruno cannot do. Second, if bruno is the focal point in attack from the midfield, his inconsistencies within games and across games reflects on the team performances as well. His averages are great but he goes full on 9/10 performances in some games but stinks in other games. But given we don't have attacking wingback on the left, Bruno's creativity and numbers definitely help in the attack. I would rather have him in no 10 position than midfield but I can see why amorim plays him in the midfield because otherwise we will have no creativity coming from the midfield because Mainoo or Ugarte with Casemiro doesn't help especially with almost no creativity coming from the left wing back position.
Yeah, I agree with you overall, Cunha and Sesko contributing will definitely help us move higher in the table even with the compromised midfield we have. Hope that comes in the second half of the season. Cunha at least has shown signs of it and all he needs is numbers to take that leap.
Lazy journalism- I wouldn't even call it journalism. People just want to show up for the shows and earn money at the club's expense. Put some effort into watching games, analyzing and talking about how we can improve than taking cheap shots to get attentions and money.
You have missed my point if it wasn't obvious enough:
- @Ayush_reddevil extrapolates our current points to say we might get around 63 points for the season.
- You: You can't extrapolate points because you can't read the future.
- 1 month ago in defence of Amorim and a whole discussion about judging our form from 2-5 games - You: If we extrapolate our points from the last two months, then our next two months are looking good.
Cunha has been poor IMO but Amorim has his share of the blame for that. We don't control games or midfield and therefore our attackers don't get consistent patterns and time on the ball. Mbeumo has delivered to an extent but is looking very inconsistent as well; that's even without mentioning Amad and Zirkzee etc. If most of the squad was delivering and a couple wasn't, then fair enough but when half the team is struggling, it's a collective issue, one that can only be addressed by the head coach.
Saying 'our attack needs to step up' doesn't reflect well on Amorim considering these are proven PL players, who had great form for their clubs last season.
You can do either, but its not productive to presume a certain point value is tantamount to a certain league finish because we don't know how the other clubs will fare.
That's right. Cunha has been poor. Our midfield hasn't been the issue either since Bruno leads the league in several key categories including asissts, chances created, and shot creating actions. Therefore we are getting the ball to the final third, but aren't taking advantage of it because Cunha has been ineffective at scoring and anyone playing at #9 has been generally ineffective as well. Until the latter two are resolved, we will continue to linger several places below our true potential - which is top 3.
Missing context. Been said multiple times but playing on the counter for the likes of Wolves and Brentford ia a different beast to playing at United, where opponents will sit and defend more often.
Doesn’t excuse the players completely but it’s a different way of playing and it will take time to adjust. It’s also a brand new front 3 so it also takes time to develop those partnerships - not helped by Sesko’s late start and subsequent injury. Cunha in particular does need to step up a bit though, he’s had his chances but failing to deliver consistently.
I agree. Look at the shite Carragher is getting for daring to criticise ‘his’ Liverpool. Btw I think he’s a pretty good pundit and tells it as he sees it.
Agreed. We are scoring more goals than last year, but not nearly at the rate we could be. For that, we need Cunha and Sesko to step up.
I think the key point here is most on the Caf have an issue with confirmation bias. We look for comments / pundits that fit our narrative rather than just listening to the data and drawing conclusions.
Is everything Scholes and Butt said 100% correct? No. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t some truth or something valuable from their comments. I’m not Amorim in or out. I do think that if players the caliber of Scholes saying that he has no idea what our identity is because he can’t see patterns of play, that seems to be a problem of either the coaching staff can’t communicate to the players what he wants, or the system is not working, or the players are not good enough. It’s probably all three in all honesty, and two of those are on the coach / manager.
Agree with your point on confirmation bias…I think most of us suffer from that to a greater or lesser degree so I get it.
With regards to Scholes though, it’s clear that RA and the style of football he’s trying to introduce is not his cup of tea so I find that everything he says is through that prism of dislike. Like when he says he can’t see patterns of play. I’m a bit flummoxed by that. Even to my amateur eye, there are clearly patterns there. Maybe not the patterns he wants to see but I think they’re there. So why is he saying it…? Not sure. Just maybe because him and Butt have a new podcast and need to pull in views…after all, nothing drums up trade like slagging United…
Bruno has been shite in terms of performances bar 3 games, and responsible for dropped points due to missed pens, once because the ref dared touch him. why are you giving him a pass? He’s also let runners run off him for key goals against Fulham, City and played a ridiculous pass v Arsenal that cost us. Nobody has cost us more this season than Bruno. Random stats don’t equate to good performances…But let’s jump on Cunha who is new to the club and had two injuries already. He’s also played games as a false 9 which eradicates his actual strengths.
Out of curiosity, what patterns of play do you see? I’m not trying to slag on Amorim, the man has his work cut out for him.
Here’s our buildup pattern of play:
* From a goalkick, hoof it long if team is pressing with 5. Try to win the second ball.
* if team is pressing with 4 from goal kick, send the center CB into midfield and pull the wingbacks back. Slow progression.
* occasional long ball from a CB to the LWB
* if to the feet of the CF, back to Bruno or Casemiro, then long ball into space for Mbeumo.
On the break:
If we have possession in our half, long ball to Mbeumo, hope he controls and holds up play, or if we’re lucky beats the defender to the ball and we’re in on goal.
No other “patterns” except the occasional nice link up and 1 2s with the CF, 10s and Bruno.
In the final 3rd:
Well, we’re usually playing two inverted LWB/RWB. So, if, for example, Amad has the ball, he does one of two things, drives into the box on his left trying to get fouled or get a shot off, or, recycle back to a 10 or Bruno who usually crosses the ball into a crowd. No overlapping FB or 10 to put pressure on the defense because everyone except Bruno is left footed.
The left side is even worse. Dalot cannot beat even a subpar defender 1v1, so he either recycles the ball to Bruno or the 10, then back to Dalot. Guess what? No overlap on that side either, everyone is right footed and aren’t great 1v1. Cue eventual cross into the box. Mount will sometimes make an underlap run, which is great. Cunha wants to drift inside and take a shot from outside the box.
It’s clear to me that the inverted RWB/ LWB on both sides isn’t really working. Dorgu, by sheer pace can sometimes beat a defender, but his crosses are usually really really bad.
I think Scholes and other pundits see this and think that the attackers aren’t really pulling the defenders out of position, it’s a lot of stationary stuff.
If you have Haaland or a world class 9, maybe this attacking play works, but we don’t. Maybe it’s personnel, maybe it’s tactics, but it’s probably both. I admit we look pretty good when we counter, we just need to be more clinical with our finishing. But I don’t think this setup and personnel creat much when in possession in the final 3rd.
I obviously like all of them, but I take a lot of their views with a pinch of salt. Agree sometimes, disagree others. But I feel like Butt is a bit (perhaps rightly) sour about how things ended here for him. And he seems close with Scholes and Neville, who seem to perhaps take on some of that negativity due to how he was treated.
Of the ex-players that I would trust an opinion of, on this topic, Scholes is the top of the list
Of the ex-players that I would trust an opinion of, on this topic, Scholes is the top of the list
Nah, he's just being negative. Who is he to know if a United manager is right for a club or not. Just a negative nancy.
I'm sorry. But this is the dumbest take I've ever seen on any forum I've ever been on, in relation to any sports team I follow.
Hes not into sensationalism. So I think he means it
Of the ex-players that I would trust an opinion of, on this topic, Scholes is the top of the list
A genuine question… what will it take for people who are Amorim out to change their minds on him? Will getting through the next 3 games unbeaten sway peoples minds. Especially if it’s 2 wins and 1 draw. Or does it have to be consistently good football etc.
I'm Amorim agnostic rather than out but if we take seven points from the next three games, with no Mbuemo and Amad for at least the tricker two of those, I'll suggest we start building the statue.
You're probably right about Butt. Neville's punditry is widely viewed as favorable to the opposition to help him conveniently duck any charges he's too pro-United. Scholes is just constantly negative irrespective of what's happening.
I'm just not a fan of how he sees the game and his refusal to be more proactive in chasing certain games.
So I'd always want someone else that aligns with what I think should be a Manchester United manager's MO.
But I'll obviously support him and hope for good results.
he can mean it fine and he was one of the best midfielders and a legend of the club but that doesn't mean he knows how a team should be managed. eg Neville at Valencia.
While we on this friendly reminder. Can we also friendly remind the match thread mods or whomever is responsible for updating the live score to please do so as there have been a few times where the score is not updated until the last minute of the game or even after the FT whistle?
I'm sure some members keep up score in the match threads and last time I thought we were drawing a match when infact we were actually 2 goals up and winning. Some members complained in that thread but were met with sarcastic responsonses. Sorry I can't give examples.
If you're going to post the live score, then rather make sure its updated accordingly or just drop it altogether.
EDIT: Sorry I know this is off topic but just wanted to bring this to your attention.
That's it, get right in to those lazy cnuts.
Great point
I think in your third paragraph, it's not totally fair on the coaching staff. Playing vertically and exploiting teams when they are not in their rest defence is something that all teams look to exploit, we happen to do it well and I think it's as much on the coaching as anything.
I also don't agree those goals are just individual moments; Dalot's positioning and run is clearly an instruction as he made the same run in the first half for his chance. the cross from the right and overload on the left from mount/cunha/dalot is repeated pattern as well and we constantly see it when amad crosses. Also, the move immediately preceding bruno's cross was a really nice move thats more 'system-based', as was mbuemos/cunha chance in the first half. It is blurred lines though and it's hard to tell where the credit should go when a goal is scored because as a fan and not a coach, I don't think I'm able to fully process the full picture. I don't think we're as reliant on individual quality moment anywhere near as we did a couple years back where we just gave it rashford and hoped for the best.
From what you're saying after, I think it's just a matter of taste. From what I can tell, and correct me if I'm wrong obviously, you dont stylistically align with Amorim, particularly the 3-5-2 and his use of runners, pressers and physical carriers in the number 10s rather than your most creative outlet. I think that's fair enough and we all have our own preferences. I can't help but think in a an uber physical premier league, that this is the logical direction of travel and that it gives us a higher chance of success in the long-term; I can't forget how how many times we'd gotten physically overpowered in offence and defence by teams over the last couple of years because we play with bruno garnacho hojlund and a meandering rashford in physically taxing positions. So to me, this transition had to happen and the repocussions of that is bruno goes deeper (I think he'll be moved on end of the year anyway). In the same breath, I think bruno does rotate a LOT with the forwards. How many runs did he make into the channels vs Wolves? He was the closest player to cunha when he scored so its not like he's stuck to the number 8 position.
Finally, the mainoo situation is very unfortunate and you're right there isn't enough time to get into match rhythm. That's a tragic consequence of no europe and deputising for bruno who is made out of vibranium. I don't know what the solution is here because this year will follow the same pattern but the silver lining next year is that if we get a mobile midfielder like baleba, get into europe, and move on bruno then the path is there for Mainoo to take over. I just don't know if he's earned the manager's trust to be that second midfielder long term.
Also, not to be pedantic, but ugarte has actually only come on in 2/6 recent games in the 70+ minute each time, Mainoo has come on in 3/6 and was missing for the spurs game. Game before that they both came on with mainoo coming on earlier. Only reason Ugarte gets minutes is to rest Casimero. The one time he put in mainoo came on instead we almost threw away a 3 goal lead vs brighton.
If the club would actually do the right things (appoint good managers, sign better players and play good football for starters), the ex players wont have to moan all the time. If you think they are doing this to get the limelight, you’re mistaken. They all want the best for the club and on the contrary to what most top reds think, i think its the right way to send a message. Lapping up whatever the club is throwing at us, cheering and clapping off everything is the reason why the standards of this club are in the sewer.
Who asked for a start? Did you even read properly what i posted?
‘Top red’ has to be up there with the cringiest online descriptors.
It was the easiest sub one could ever make. You dont have to go by the computer all the time. 4-1 up, against one of the worst PL sides of all time. Do you think there was anything that could have gone wrong?
Well for someone who is supposed to know a few things more than us about football, moaning on media is never a smart thing to do for a start. I guess that contradicts with him being a bright lad.
The ex-players generally aren't moaning to the extent Scholes and Butt are - and of course Neville, but he of course has to temper his criticism because of his job.
So you are suggesting that a player who gave his entire career playing for the club(and being a part of its most successful era), telling you on the face that this is not the football/brand this club stood for is now bad?
Is this supposed positivity the outcome of a win against a garbage PL side? Did you agree with keeping 5 defenders against 10 men Everton? Or subbing in 3 defenders at home against WHU?
Amorim is doing what he needs to do ie get the points but the football and performances are nowhere near good enough. Not for me at least. Not enjoyable.
Aren’t they part of a podcast where they have to repeatedly share their views on utd? So obviously there will be more quotes from them and at some point it could appear as moaning.
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