Ruben Amorim. Fired for being crap. Full stop. Just another addition for Amol as he loves it

[afrocentricity]

”It’s not the system”

Fair play to the bloke, he charmed enough people to such a degree they were willing to suspend reality in order to excuse him. It’s a degree of cult worship and gaslighting no other post SAF manager has come close to.

We actually had posters attempting to convince us that we should ignore all of last season and then pretend that his 1.55 points per game haul this season (and sharply trending downwards) was some sort of super human improvement that was the maximum these shit players could produce with any coach/manager.
I’d argued with @InspiRED when Carrick was hired that I was 100% certain he’d piss all over Amorim’s points per game haul. Now obviously Carrick aint gonna keep up 3 ppg, but I fully expect his interim spell to end with him close to 2 ppg. The players are far better than many fans gave them credit for due to that rank awful system.

It's like the Donald Trump of football managers and his Stans! Aaah well...... It's behind us now

 

[Shark]

"He told us we'd suffer" is the funniest excuse, as if being upfront about how shit you're going to perform magically makes all performance expectations go away.

United were completely unique in that suffering shite also. What other club of any nature brings a manager in and instantly accepts the idea that you're going to be shit for months on end for the better good. Absolutely no other club on earth would entertain that. One of the biggest purposes of hiring a new coach is to instill belief again into a previously struggling squad.

 

[Sarni]

United were completely unique in that suffering shite also. What other club of any nature brings a manager in and instantly accepts the idea that you're going to be shit for months on end for the better good. Absolutely no other club on earth would entertain that. One of the biggest purposes of hiring a new coach is to instill belief again into a previously struggling squad.

In general people who had blindly followed either or both of our recent managers have gone to significant lengths to try and justify their poor performance. Apparently you need to have your full squad available, a squad that would have needed to be fully acquired based on your feedback (and all of the players your team signs must have been your first preferred recommendation) in every single position (not to forget having handpicked backups), and probably even then when you lose it’s because the fecking players are letting you down.

 

[SungSam7]

He is somewhat right though. Results were absolutely awful, but the squad and culture and work rate seems to be in a much better place.

That wouldn't have anything to do with the club making it obvious they wanted Rashford gone, Sancho gone and Garnacho gone. 2 out of the three, the club had made it known that they were up for grabs.

I'll give Amorim the benefit of the doubt about Garnacho. But at the same time, there was no way back from the club when he wore the Rashford Villa jersey in a disrespectful way, or how he handled himself on Social Media, or when he wasn't playing.

To tell me the team works incredibly harder because of Amorim, give me a break.

You can't question the following players.
Dalot (switches off defensively, not lack of effort)
De Ligt
Maguire
Martinez
Shaw (questionable)
Casemiro (exposed at times, but didn't give up)
Antony (crap but gave his all)
Hojlund
Ugarte (crap but tries his best)
Maz
Yoro
Bruno (absolutely not. Has his whinging moments but he covers every blade of grass)
Mainoo (questions asked about his stamina)
Amad (probably joint with Bruno for work rate)

so tell me, which of the players there didn't work hard?

Trying to give credit to a guy when we had a team who worked hard but lacked any unity under ETH or Amorim is ridiculous.
It's like people on here are desperate to make Amorims tenure not all a failure.

 

[fergies coat]

Just some of the bollocks I had read on here, and you got called not a proper fan if you disagreed with any of this.

 

[ti vu]

Our pressing structure was much better under him and I think we’ve been pressing in quite a similar manner under Carrick, so it seems like a legacy he has left. That’s probably the only thing that he can take credit for.

It is not. It’s only better than the worst of ETH by taking more risk for little gain. The GD doesn’t lie.

Carrick pressing system is different. Carrick have 2 players (Bruno often initiate the press) to spearhead the press instead of one under Amorim. When pressing high it can transform to 4 players man to man pressing, instead of pressing in zone like under Amorim. It’s comparable given that anyone know Bruno workrate is better utilized with having running to press in the front line, instead of thinking about different thing when to drop off, track runners, commit tactical foul on player with or without the ball…

Carrick is having us the wingers being more defensive aware about dropping off the pressing to track runners. this help us to have more players in front of the defensive line during opponents’ transition as well defending wing play with 2 players instead of allowing opposition easily playing around our wingbacks and drag CBs out wide shuffling the whole defense like under Amorim.

Carrick is doing thing more sensible. He sees very clearly like Ole said in the interview that the squad as a whole is better with less possession. So we don’t try to dominate possession by passing the ball aimlessly between the defenders getting pressed by opposition thus wasting energy. We attack with purpose under Carrick and focus on being organized out of possession. Not exactly ground breaking or revolutionary.

 

[Stickz]

His system might have worked if he had elite players in every position.

It didn't work just having better players than most of the teams he played in every position.

Value of the system is not obvious.

Well this is it isn't it, I used to argue similar against ETHs fan club but when a manager is that bad, they need the best of the best players to offset the managers clown influence.

 

[Red Stone]

Instead of sacking The Glorious One we should have kept him, changed our name to União Manchesteirense and moved to Portugal where he might actually have achieved something.

 

[stevoc]

His system might have worked if he had elite players in every position.

It didn't work just having better players than most of the teams he played in every position.

Value of the system is not obvious.

There was nothing inherently wrong with his system/formation, yes as you say it'd work better with better and more suited players. But the main problem was with him, he didn't know how to coach a proper defensive structure, he didn't know how to adapt it to suit players with a different profile short term.

It's likely he just struck it lucky with a particular group of players in Portugal that suited this formation to a tee, in a much weaker league where having superior players will win out 9 times out of 10. But once he didn't have that he was lost, it was clear he was out of his depth at this level. Virtually every coach he came up against in the PL out thought him and was tactically superior.

You can't have one way you play football from minute 1 to minute 90 in every game and hope to succeed at the top level of the game. It was amateur hour stuff.

 

[stevoc]

Just some of the bollocks I had read on here, and you got called not a proper fan if you disagreed with any of this.

Creating a siege mentality?

Amorim spent the majority of his time picking fights with people within the club and criticising his own players publicly. Including Academy players.

A siege mentality is when you create an atmosphere of everyone within the club vs the world, what Amorim did was create an atmosphere of him vs everyone else in the club.

 

[hellhunter]

Creating a siege mentality?

Amorim spent the majority of his time picking fights with people within the club and criticising his own players publicly. Including Academy players.

A siege mentality is when you create an atmosphere of everyone within the club vs the world, what Amorim did was create an atmosphere of him vs everyone else in the club.

He kind of did create a siege mentality. But just for himself, he was the only one under siege, the team wasn't included

 

[Rista]

Just some of the bollocks I had read on here, and you got called not a proper fan if you disagreed with any of this.

"You lot are just gonna continue to cling to that win% forever" He says this as if we're talking about possession stats or something, not the most important metric in football that everything revolves around.

And "now we're just back to being plain bad". Implying the "good" that Amorim supposedly brought couldn't possibly be achieved or replicated by anyone else who takes over.

Call me petty but I love seeing posters like this with egg on their face. Spending months shitting on the club and the players and dismissing the criticism of the manager and hand waving away all his failings as "yada yada yada". Meanwhile Carrick has already matched Amorim's best achievement in the 14 months he was at the club

 

[Ish]

I supported the bloke until around Grimsby which is when he should have been fired on the spot (if not straight after the Europa final). Those 3 wins then somewhat gave me a glimmer - even deep down I knew this guy wasn’t the answer with that shit system of his - plus that mentality of throwing players under the bus so easily. Everton really was the final straw. Playing against 10 men, we had 3 CB’s standing on the halfway line, marking no one, in our pursuit of an equaliser. Showed he had absolutely feck all idea outside of his system, showed his arrogance and most importantly, showed his cowardice. I don’t even care much about any sort of statement to the club or fans (it’s just common courtesy though, isn’t it?) but it absolutely proves those 100% correct to say he never gave a damn about the club or fans and he absolutely was just in it for himself. Twat.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Just some of the bollocks I had read on here, and you got called not a proper fan if you disagreed with any of this.

You've got to love the "proper" fans who are intelligent enough to see beyond the trivial matters of win rate and results, and understand the wider context of how it's all part of some genius long term plan

 

[Lj82]

Can't be arsed checking but has he even written a goodbye to the fans? Even the Old Trafford crowd who were inexplicably still behind him until the end?

Ole managed an entire goodbye video and Ten Hag had one final written "hehhh?" on their way out but this gobshite hasn't even bothered with a simple "k thnx bye".

I don't know if he has by know, but I recall reading quotes from Fletcher that he was not contactable for a proper handing over.
Contrast this with Ole, who spoke to Ralf for hours on the problems with the squad after he was sacked. Ralf commented after the episode on how much Ole loved the club and remained committed despite being sacked.

 

[golden_blunder]

I supported the bloke until around Grimsby which is when he should have been fired on the spot (if not straight after the Europa final). Those 3 wins then somewhat gave me a glimmer - even deep down I knew this guy wasn’t the answer with that shit system of his - plus that mentality of throwing players under the bus so easily. Everton really was the final straw. Playing against 10 men, we had 3 CB’s standing on the halfway line, marking no one, in our pursuit of an equaliser. Showed he had absolutely feck all idea outside of his system, showed his arrogance and most importantly, showed his cowardice. I don’t even care much about any sort of statement to the club or fans (it’s just common courtesy though, isn’t it?) but it absolutely proves those 100% correct to say he never gave a damn about the club or fans and he absolutely was just in it for himself. Twat.

Agreed 100%

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

I supported the bloke until around Grimsby which is when he should have been fired on the spot (if not straight after the Europa final). Those 3 wins then somewhat gave me a glimmer - even deep down I knew this guy wasn’t the answer with that shit system of his - plus that mentality of throwing players under the bus so easily. Everton really was the final straw. Playing against 10 men, we had 3 CB’s standing on the halfway line, marking no one, in our pursuit of an equaliser. Showed he had absolutely feck all idea outside of his system, showed his arrogance and most importantly, showed his cowardice. I don’t even care much about any sort of statement to the club or fans (it’s just common courtesy though, isn’t it?) but it absolutely proves those 100% correct to say he never gave a damn about the club or fans and he absolutely was just in it for himself. Twat.

The West Ham game annoyed me even more than Everton. Everton are at least a decent, well organised side and it just felt like it was going to be one of those nights from early on. But West Ham are shit. As soon as it got to about 75 minutes and we’d not got a second, it was so obvious they’d get an equaliser. Why are we inviting them on to us, at home, with just a one goal lead? It was maddening in its inevitability.

 

[Ish]

The West Ham game annoyed me even more than Everton. Everton are at least a decent, well organised side and it just felt like it was going to be one of those nights from early on. But West Ham are shit. As soon as it got to about 75 minutes and we’d not got a second, it was so obvious they’d get an equaliser. Why are we inviting them on to us, at home, with just a one goal lead? It was maddening in its inevitability.

And did he do his famous 2 CB's off, 2 CB's on subs at that point yet? (what a joke). I watched that game, but half don't remember.

Thankfully I missed a few over December as i was travelling - notably the Wolves match.

 

[Hans Wurst]

I stuck by him until the end but more importantly match-going fans stuck by him until the end (especially the incredible away support) so it does suck that almost a full month since the sacking he hasn't released the statement thanking the fans for great support they showed him. Every manager did it in matter of hours or days, he's been gone since 5th January. Something that really bothers me. Our fans deserve more than this/nothing.

Stood by him as well and have to completely agree with you. Very disappointing.
Maybe he only cared about himself and his "legacy" after all.

 

[Drainy]

Not trying to be a dick, and obviously Carrick is doing a great job and we're back to winning and feeling great and some of the football has been fantastic and quite a few players have really looked much better since Amorim left.. but..

Really the difference between the Fulham game and any of the other dropped points games has mainly been the lack of Yoro or Heaven dropping a bollock - which is fair enough, they're young players who need experience, but their inconsistent form cost us a lot of points this year!

 

[Alex99]

Not trying to be a dick, and obviously Carrick is doing a great job and we're back to winning and feeling great and some of the football has been fantastic and quite a few players have really looked much better since Amorim left.. but..

Really the difference between the Fulham game and any of the other dropped points games has mainly been the lack of Yoro or Heaven dropping a bollock - which is fair enough, they're young players who need experience, but their inconsistent form cost us a lot of points this year!

We literally conceded one of our goals because Maguire dropped a bollock. Our defenders, to a man, have been excellent at dropping bollocks for years.

We've only had one manager who decided more of them on the pitch was the answer to that problem.

 

[stevoc]

Not trying to be a dick, and obviously Carrick is doing a great job and we're back to winning and feeling great and some of the football has been fantastic and quite a few players have really looked much better since Amorim left.. but..

Really the difference between the Fulham game and any of the other dropped points games has mainly been the lack of Yoro or Heaven dropping a bollock - which is fair enough, they're young players who need experience, but their inconsistent form cost us a lot of points this year!

We were dropping points at a similar rate with Shaw and DeLigt at centreback. So we can't lump all our struggles onto to two youngsters, deployed in the dysfunctional system of a guy who didn't know how to coach a defensive structure.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Not trying to be a dick, and obviously Carrick is doing a great job and we're back to winning and feeling great and some of the football has been fantastic and quite a few players have really looked much better since Amorim left.. but..

Really the difference between the Fulham game and any of the other dropped points games has mainly been the lack of Yoro or Heaven dropping a bollock - which is fair enough, they're young players who need experience, but their inconsistent form cost us a lot of points this year!

Seriously if this is your take then its embarrassing. Is this for real or a WUM. The way the team is playing is light and day compared to the dross that Amorim served up. There are still mistakes, Maguire dropped a couple of big ones later on including the penalty. The difference now is the team recovers. What did Yoro or heaven have to do with the Everton game or the European final for example?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We literally conceded one of our goals because Maguire dropped a bollock. Our defenders, to a man, have been excellent at dropping bollocks for years.

We've only had one manager who decided more of them on the pitch was the answer to that problem.

Haha. Brilliant

 

[mbapps]

He came in, did some stuff, didn't work out

harbour no grudges against him but no point getting angry about it all

only gripe is not releasing a message to supporters thanking us for support but that is poor form rather than the grandiose narcissism implied here

 

[Drainy]

Seriously if this is your take then its embarrassing. Is this for real or a WUM. The way the team is playing is light and day compared to the dross that Amorim served up. There are still mistakes, Maguire dropped a couple of big ones later on including the penalty. The difference now is the team recovers. What did Yoro or heaven have to do with the Everton game or the European final for example?

Heaven had been playing mostly great but then every few games he dropped a poor one and cost us points

Yoro has been struggling for form.

Its completely normal.

Yes Maguire gave away a penalty. But overall his commitment to blocks and general play has been great since he came back.

We're playing batter football without a doubt, and we can all feel much happier about that but that game felt closer to pre-Carrick than people would probably like to admit in terms of production at both ends

 

[Gordon'sHill]

Heaven had been playing mostly great but then every few games he dropped a poor one and cost us points

Yoro has been struggling for form.

Its completely normal.

Yes Maguire gave away a penalty. But overall his commitment to blocks and general play has been great since he came back.

We're playing batter football without a doubt, and we can all feel much happier about that but that game felt closer to pre-Carrick than people would probably like to admit in terms of production at both ends

If you really think a mistake or two by a CB is the main difference in results and performances between Amorim and Carrick there is nothing more to be said.

 

[Drainy]

If you really think a mistake or two by a CB is the main difference in results and performances between Amorim and Carrick there is nothing more to be said.

Carrick is setting us up to play better attacking football, but be honest we were one slight offside away from a draw even with more experienced defenders in place

 

[Ish]

Carrick is setting us up to play better attacking football, but be honest we were one slight offside away from a draw even with more experienced defenders in place

In fairness, this Fulham side has been very good this year, and another way of putting it, they got a “fortunate” penalty and scored one worldie to be within touching distance of us - could also be a narrative.

I’m actually pretty confident we would have lost to them if Amorim was in charge. Silva would’ve deployed Iwobi tucked in tactics again, overrunning our midfield and job done.

I say that half jokingly of course. Im just enjoying watching us again. I’m not sure if Carrick is the answer (& truth be told, it’ll take a hell of a lot for him to convince me) - especially if we’re able to lure a big name like Enrique (pipe dream possibly), but so far, so good.

 

[Slick Bastardly]

Carrick is setting us up to play better attacking football, but be honest we were one slight offside away from a draw even with more experienced defenders in place

We were also one slight post away from a really comforting 3-0 at home.

Football is a number theory game.

Although the cliche is that a 2-0 lead is the most dangerous lead, it's statistically wrong. There was about 2% chance of a Fulham win , and in the end, it was the right percentage.



The most important thing with Carra is the fact he does not put more then 4 defenders in the game, unlike Ruben who had a really weird fixation on fielding as much fecking defenders as he could in a 11 players team.

 

[Drainy]

In fairness, this Fulham side has been very good this year, and another way of putting it, they got a “fortunate” penalty and scored one worldie to be within touching distance of us - could also be a narrative.

I’m actually pretty confident we would have lost to them if Amorim was in charge. Silva would’ve deployed Iwobi tucked in tactics again, overrunning our midfield and job done.

I say that half jokingly of course. Im just enjoying watching us again. I’m not sure if Carrick is the answer (& truth be told, it’ll take a hell of a lot for him to convince me) - especially if we’re able to lure a big name like Enrique (pipe dream possibly), but so far, so good.

Oh yeah its night and day in terms of consistently enjoyable football, but there's a long way to go before we're 'back' and the narrow breaks change the narrative so much.

 

[Ish]

Oh yeah its night and day in terms of consistently enjoyable football, but there's a long way to go before we're 'back' and the narrow breaks change the narrative so much.

Yeah agreed.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He was really, really bad. So many red flags early on with that "suffering" bollox. I have a mate who's still insistent that it was everyone's fault bar Amorim's. So infuriating.

 

[RedSky]

Oh yeah its night and day in terms of consistently enjoyable football, but there's a long way to go before we're 'back' and the narrow breaks change the narrative so much.

Personally think we've got a decent first 11 when Casemiro is fit and playing well. But our squad depth is pretty terrible. That's not on Amorim, not really on INEOS either. Amorim most certainly had us getting worse results than what we should have got this season, but I always thought we'd do better in the second half of the season when our new attackers had a bit more time to settle.

We're a long way off being back though as you said.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Does anyone really think we're genuinely back though?

The squad clearly has some big weaknesses, particularly in midfield. I don't think anyone expects us to now go on and win 10 in a row or anything like that.

It's just that Carrick has come in and done sensible logical things like play our best players in their best positions and we clearly look so much better and results are so much better. It's fun to watch us again.

We were never as bad as Amorim used to make us look.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Carrick is setting us up to play better attacking football, but be honest we were one slight offside away from a draw even with more experienced defenders in place

We were a shave of a post away from 3-0 mate. Oh and a definite penalty on Mbeumo in the first half.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Personally think we've got a decent first 11 when Casemiro is fit and playing well. But our squad depth is pretty terrible. That's not on Amorim, not really on INEOS either. Amorim most certainly had us getting worse results than what we should have got this season, but I always thought we'd do better in the second half of the season when our new attackers had a bit more time to settle.

We're a long way off being back though as you said.

If we finish CL football (5th place or higher) which is where this squad should really be aiming, we will be able to spend aggressively. Let's just say for argument's sake we sign Anderson, Baleba and Murillo (using names we seem genuinely linked with) is our squad so far behind Arsenal or City's?

 

[bosnian_red]

Personally think we've got a decent first 11 when Casemiro is fit and playing well. But our squad depth is pretty terrible. That's not on Amorim, not really on INEOS either. Amorim most certainly had us getting worse results than what we should have got this season, but I always thought we'd do better in the second half of the season when our new attackers had a bit more time to settle.

We're a long way off being back though as you said.

The depth in midfield is shit (just Ugarte for Mainoo or case), and we are just filling in at LW even for starters, but I think we have a pretty healthy situation everywhere else. Basically sign 2 midfielders and a left winger and we should be very fine for European football (not counting replacing other sold players).

 

[LoneStar]

The worst manager in PL history given the players and resources he had at his disposal. I had pretty much given up watching games because of this clown.

I’m convinced he was a fraud, and wanted to deliberately get the sack at the end too.

The board need to look at themselves hard for giving this idiot 14 months to ruin the club.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

I posted the 3-4-3 ain't it thread. I took huge criticism. But I could see after only a month that it wouldn't work.

Zero adaptation. A vacant midfield. Bruno as a midfielder? Strange comments about players.

And you can talk about improved league position but we were still crap. Our better keeper did more to help results than the players understanding the crap system.