Remember when we were getting warning points for any "negative" comments in the Amorim thread after the heroic 0-1 defeat to Arsenal?
Ruben Amorim. Fired for being crap. Full stop. Just another addition for Amol as he loves it
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No, we aren't back. But we definitely are a lot better than the shite Amorim was serving up. The players don't look like they're absolutely shattered trying to fill in gaps anymore.
What does being back mean though? I'd say we had a few periods post Sir Alex that we were on our way back and things were good, the only sustained one being under Ole. I think we're back to that path where Carrick has the right vision of how we should play and aligns with our identity, he values the link to the academy and I think it's a clear idea for how to build. We had that under Ole until he started changing it in 2021 because he had reached a ceiling of what he could do. I don't think it takes much to get back on track and Carrick has gotten us back on track, and that alone pretty much brings us to back to our "normal level" which is a CL qualifying side. I think every time we didn't make it post Sir Alex is because we flopped with that manager.
To jump from a top 5 side to a title challenger is a different ask though. Once we make that jump we can say we're back IMO. I don't think we are close to that and that just takes time and proof over a few years, combining the quality of starters with proper squad depth to handle multiple competitions. If we get top 5 this season, next season's battle will be just keeping that league position while competing in the CL because that would also be a jump forward.
It's been too soon but given that current tide continues, I don't think Carrick's time is comparable to Ole'a run of 9 wins. Sure, nine wins in a row was very impressive and Carrick may not even be able to repeat it, but games under Ole were very different, squad felt much more chaotic, running on vibes, and dressing room didn't inspire nearly the confidence that you could have in current one.
What I like about current squad is that it is missing several key players, but overall it feels like a solid team. Ole's squad never really felt like that, it had too many toxic characters, and not enough leaders, even if they had a good spell for a bit
We were also one header off the post from being 3 up and coasting.
I just mean there are some detractors trying to downplay what Carrick has done or make out like Utd fans are being silly and think everything is now fine and I'm saying I don't think that's true. I think the vast majority of us are realistic and know we still have a lot of work to do to get back to where we want to be.
Carrick has done absolutely brilliantly so far and for the first time in fecking years we look like Utd again. We have a manager getting us to play exciting attacking brave football, this is what Utd should be. I'm sure we'll have the odd bad performance and result before the end of the season but at least we can be sure Carrick is going out each game with the objective of playing well and winning. It sounds crazy I know but I honestly don't think Amorim's first concern was winning games for Utd.
All he cared about was playing his shitty system.
Its different but also both were good. Ole I'm not just saying his interim period, but up until summer 2021. What we needed at that time was to stabilize as a good team. He did that. He did it by linking the academy to the first team, he did it by playing fast attacking football, and it definitely "felt right". We all knew there was a limit on far we would go with him, but for 2.5 seasons we performed like a top 4 side and the results backed that too. We also competed across all competitions, he just didn't do well with the small tweaks in the finals. That doesn't mean that we weren't on the right track.
Likewise with Carrick now, we are on the right track. We needed a better squad then and we need a better squad now, but also we needed a better manager who kept things going along that path whereas right now we don't know what Carricks actual level is as a manager. That's something time will tell. Where we are at, like in 2019, is we need to stabilize as a CL level club first. Can't keep gambling it all to jump to being a title challenger instantly. Once you stabilize as a CL club for a couple of seasons, the level of player you can attract is better and your finances are in a much better spot. I think/hope Carrick can stabilize us as a CL club like Ole did, while keeping the link to the academy like Ole did. Then in 2 years we can see if Carrick is a limiting factor or if we improve position x/y/z would be be able to actually step up the consistency and challenge. The past 4 years have been far too chaotic though and that's why we need the stabilizing period first.
For sure. The City game was our best performance this season. We were fortunate to get 6 points from the last 2 games though which is not that bad considering the opposition. The Fulham game in particular wasn't that different to many games this season except we managed to find a late winner. I'm cautious to get too optimistic yet but we are looking good for top 5.
Oh for sure. I don't think anybody should expect a title challenging level of form from us. We should expect a CL qualifying level of form. That alone means you will draw or lose around half of your games.
You don't know what you got til it's gone. And we had a bag of shite.
Oh I knew a LONG LONG time ago that what we had was a bag of shite.
I was one of the deluded who hung on too long. Happy to say I was very wrong.
I expect the same from whoever manages this current squad, the same thing we should have expected from the last bloke. CL qualification, could accept narrowly missing out if we show improvement in many other areas.
Blows my mind so many of his apologists were claiming top 8 would be progress. Absolute nutters.
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Yep. It's an underperformance if we don't. It doesn't take a lot to be at that level IMO. Sometimes yes squad quality drops off but I think it's been extremely rare circumstances post Sir Alex that our squad was not around the same level as the other top 4/5 competitors. Sometimes you have mitigating circumstances with injuries too, fixture congestion across competitions (Mourinho's first season for example). It's a very fair market for "have we performed to our base level this season".
Nah, that's nonsense sorry. How many times have we gone 2-0 up at Old Trafford under Amorim this season, also we won it because we were brave and not cowardly bringing on two CB's when drawing. Night and day difference.
Absolutely and categorically not true. The Fulham tie was absolutely nothing like any single game that we had under Ruben's dictatorship. For starters, we won the game due to an attacking substitution being made, something that Ruben did ONCE throughout his entire tenure.
*Note: In all of Ruben's Premier League games, only once did he make a substitution that led to a goal and that was his last game in charge, away at Leeds, when he brought on Zirkzee who assisted Cunha for the equaliser. Throughout all of his games in charge, this was the ONLY time where his changes had a positive impact. Breathtakingly poor in-game managment.*
We lacked intensity throughout some periods in the game but weren't ever really on the back foot until they were awarded the penalty. Even after it went 2-1 we were okay but obviously decided to sit back and aim to get more control which then failed as we conceded to a potential goal of the month contender (again). Once they equalised, the intensity ramped right back up and we rightly won the game. Do I need to point out that Mbeumo should've had a penalty and Sesko hit the post with his first touch?
TLDR: The Fulham tie was nothing like anything that fraudulent snake oil charlatan ever managed, nothing whatsoever
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We were 2-0 up yet allowed them back into the game. They had about as many chances as us and were allowed to dominate possession in the second half. Keep playing like that and we will soon be dropping points in these same games again.
The whole Amorim tenure is like one elaborate PsyOps campaign. Has any made the connection between Amorim and the CIA yet?
Maybe they were tagline whoring?
There was also no practical reason to hang Mussolini and Petacci up by their ankles after they were already dead, but it sure was fun!
E-hug, buddy. We all go crazy in here from time to time. After that Everton debacle I wanted the earth to be thrown into the sun, then the sun thrown into a black hole.
Grimsby were able to exploit the wide channels between the wing backs and CB's, was clearly something they had identified and made work successfully during that match. Grimsby ffs, identified a clear weakness with his set up.
Too much self confidence and ego built on just having better players than his competition, he hadn't really been tested as a coach when it was difficult.
You're both kinda right, Carrick's freedom and simple instructions, game management can be the difference between winning and drawing.
But we had a bit of luck on our side vs Arsenal and Fulham at the same time, which isn't bad. You also have to make your own luck.
Us being lucky vs Fulham really is up for debate. Denied a clear pen and hit the post which could have ended the game. Fulham then got a penalty that is often not given and scored a worldie.
Even more than that, we had periods of control where we looked like we wanted to score. Ironically, despite conceding 2 goals, we were also more solid defensively
Have held myself back from commenting here ever since the fraud named Ruben Amorim got sacked, since I figured emotions (and tempers) would still be high, and I just wanted to forget about his nightmare stint here altogether.
That being said, I must admit with some of the posters above who have mentioned how this thread now feels almost therapeutic, after the shared trauma we (minus the small, but vocal Ruben cultists) all went through over the last 14 months.
It's no secret we've had some terrible managers post-SAF. Yet, if you were to build a manager combining the worst traits of David Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and ETH, I reckon that hypothetical Frankenstein monster of a manager would still be better than the charlatan we had gaslighting our fanbase for the last year-and-a-half.
Amorim was basically Moyes' dourness, LVG's terrible football, Mourinho's toxicity, Ole's tactical cluelessness, and ETH's arrogance all rolled into one, but much, much worse. And without half the decent results to justify such stubbornness.
Usually, my reaction to Man United managers getting sacked or players getting booted out, is just gross indifference or disappointment, rather than outright hate and anger. But with Amorim, for the first time, I found myself actively hating the man, as well as his acolytes who'd rather see their club dragged through the mud than admit they're wrong.
Among all the other bizarre excuses used to defend him, I always laughed at how his fan club basically wanted us to ignore the entire 2024-25 season, because he joined "only" in November, inheriting a squad that wasn't "his". However, if there were bright spots in that season, like drawing against Liverpool at Anfield, or beating Arsenal at Emirates, then those games counted as evidence that his system could work. Finishing 14th, breaking every lowly record, and sinking to new humiliating lows every weekend in the league didn't matter, since "all eggs were on the Europa basket". Getting to the Europa final was proof that Amorim was the real deal. However, bottling the final - to Spurs of all teams - shouldn't also be held against him, because a win would have anyway only papered over the cracks, and the squad could benefit from less mid-week fixtures, and more time in the training ground with this master tactician.
Now, we're in 2025-26 with three great attacking signings and a new solid goalkeeper. We lose to Arsenal, but the result doesn't matter because the performance is great. We lose to Grimsby on penalties, but it's just a freak result. If you complain, you're a hater who can't see the big picture unlike the top reds who believe it's only a matter of time before Amorim morphs into prime SAF. If you're keeping track, so far the results don't matter, because apparently the performances have been great via Xg, Xd and whatever else.
However, we now get some jammy wins. Beating Burnley via a last-minute penalty. Hanging on for a 2-1 victory against 10-man Chelsea. Hardly breathtaking performances, but suddenly, only the results count, apparently, and we should ignore the performances.
Then we get the greatest accomplishment in Amorim's entire tenure - back-to-back victories. Great results against Sunderland, Liverpool and Brighton. And because the standards are already at rock bottom and most people were okay excusing even relegation-level form, something like winning three straight matches suddenly seems like a miracle and worthy of a knighthood.
Of course, a dogshit manager with a dogshit system and dogshit tactics, will eventually get you only dogshit results. Which is why you lose to 10-man Everton at home. Or drop points to the likes of West Ham, Bournemouth, Nottingham Forest, and Wolves.
But here's the kicker: remember how the whole of 2024-25 didn't count? But apparently it now counts, if only to show the progress made in 2025-26, compared to the rock bottom awfulness of 2024-25 - which ironically was in large part BECAUSE of Amorim.
I could go on and on (and probably will, when I find the mental strength to remember more infuriating incidents from his spell), but I always found this line of thinking from Amorim and his fan club both hilarious and insufferable.
That being said, I must admit with some of the posters above who have mentioned how this thread now feels almost therapeutic, after the shared trauma we (minus the small, but vocal Ruben cultists) all went through over the last 14 months.
It's no secret we've had some terrible managers post-SAF. Yet, if you were to build a manager combining the worst traits of David Moyes, LVG, Mourinho, Ole, Rangnick and ETH, I reckon that hypothetical Frankenstein monster of a manager would still be better than the charlatan we had gaslighting our fanbase for the last year-and-a-half.
Amorim was basically Moyes' dourness, LVG's terrible football, Mourinho's toxicity, Ole's tactical cluelessness, and ETH's arrogance all rolled into one, but much, much worse. And without half the decent results to justify such stubbornness.
Usually, my reaction to Man United managers getting sacked or players getting booted out, is just gross indifference or disappointment, rather than outright hate and anger. But with Amorim, for the first time, I found myself actively hating the man, as well as his acolytes who'd rather see their club dragged through the mud than admit they're wrong.
Among all the other bizarre excuses used to defend him, I always laughed at how his fan club basically wanted us to ignore the entire 2024-25 season, because he joined "only" in November, inheriting a squad that wasn't "his". However, if there were bright spots in that season, like drawing against Liverpool at Anfield, or beating Arsenal at Emirates, then those games counted as evidence that his system could work. Finishing 14th, breaking every lowly record, and sinking to new humiliating lows every weekend in the league didn't matter, since "all eggs were on the Europa basket". Getting to the Europa final was proof that Amorim was the real deal. However, bottling the final - to Spurs of all teams - shouldn't also be held against him, because a win would have anyway only papered over the cracks, and the squad could benefit from less mid-week fixtures, and more time in the training ground with this master tactician.
Now, we're in 2025-26 with three great attacking signings and a new solid goalkeeper. We lose to Arsenal, but the result doesn't matter because the performance is great. We lose to Grimsby on penalties, but it's just a freak result. If you complain, you're a hater who can't see the big picture unlike the top reds who believe it's only a matter of time before Amorim morphs into prime SAF. If you're keeping track, so far the results don't matter, because apparently the performances have been great via Xg, Xd and whatever else.
However, we now get some jammy wins. Beating Burnley via a last-minute penalty. Hanging on for a 2-1 victory against 10-man Chelsea. Hardly breathtaking performances, but suddenly, only the results count, apparently, and we should ignore the performances.
Then we get the greatest accomplishment in Amorim's entire tenure - back-to-back victories. Great results against Sunderland, Liverpool and Brighton. And because the standards are already at rock bottom and most people were okay excusing even relegation-level form, something like winning three straight matches suddenly seems like a miracle and worthy of a knighthood.
Of course, a dogshit manager with a dogshit system and dogshit tactics, will eventually get you only dogshit results. Which is why you lose to 10-man Everton at home. Or drop points to the likes of West Ham, Bournemouth, Nottingham Forest, and Wolves.
But here's the kicker: remember how the whole of 2024-25 didn't count? But apparently it now counts, if only to show the progress made in 2025-26, compared to the rock bottom awfulness of 2024-25 - which ironically was in large part BECAUSE of Amorim.
I could go on and on (and probably will, when I find the mental strength to remember more infuriating incidents from his spell), but I always found this line of thinking from Amorim and his fan club both hilarious and insufferable.
Look at you trying to draw me back into this awful thread, shame on you!”It’s not the system”
Fair play to the bloke, he charmed enough people to such a degree they were willing to suspend reality in order to excuse him. It’s a degree of cult worship and gaslighting no other post SAF manager has come close to.
We actually had posters attempting to convince us that we should ignore all of last season and then pretend that his 1.55 points per game haul this season (and sharply trending downwards) was some sort of super human improvement that was the maximum these shit players could produce with any coach/manager.
I’d argued with @InspiRED when Carrick was hired that I was 100% certain he’d piss all over Amorim’s points per game haul. Now obviously Carrick aint gonna keep up 3 ppg, but I fully expect his interim spell to end with him close to 2 ppg. The players are far better than many fans gave them credit for due to that rank awful system.
I don't agree it was 'sharply trending downwards' that's pure speculation. Tbh I'm obviously happy Carrick is picking up points, but other than Man City, the performances I wouldn't say are particularly better. It's definitely not the night and day type vibe some of you are making it out to be. The underlying stats vs Arsenal and Fulham were not that much better. For whatever reason, under Carrick the rub of the green is falling in our favour this time, that's the main difference. I'm not really convinced by Mainoo as a league-winning CM at this point either. It's fine margins... Dalot red card against City. Under Amorim, Sesko misses that last chance against Fulham.
I wasn't really one for blaming the players either tbh, I think this is a great squad, though we def need reinforcements in MF. I hope Carrick obv continues like this, but we've been in similar territory before under Ole. We're not gonna know til much later on how this is gonna go. But enjoy your victory lap if that's what you want. Happy days.
What an insight! I can say that if we play differently we would still drop points too, and I know I will highly likely be correct…
You don’t coach a team that serially dropping points to even teams at bottom of the table, rarely keep a clean sheet into final quarter of 90 minute to elite level tactically and win all 17 games coming in mid season. Do it right, do it wrong, it’s inevitable to drop point one way or another due to personnels’ weaknesses, or simply due to one of those days.
The question is with your insight, what is your estimation of our ppg under Carrick at the end of the season? Luck and bad luck would likely even out over 17 games, so if you can trust your football knowledge you should be able to make a fairly accurate educated prediction beyond the “a broken clock is right twice a day” prediction, right?
I have a bit to say on this matter but it's not worth it. Look at the top most replied posters in that thread and see if any names are inconspicuously missing from this one. The fact so many are finding some freedom/peace/relief whatever you want to call it by posting in here speaks absolute volumes.
What I find odd is:
Poster A: "Hey guys, I just want to come into the only (?) thread on the entire board on Amorim to tell you guys, you are wasting your time and energy here. Why are you talking about this person, who managed us for the last 14 months leading to our worst period ever and only barely got sacked a month ago?"
Poster B: "Well here's the thing, something Amorim something".
Poster A: "Ugh, why are you staying on topic in this thread and talking to me about Amorim? I don't want to read about Amorim in this thread that is about Amorim. And for that reason I am out".
I mean what in the self awareness is going on here? As if one post in this thread is any more or less valuable than in another. Some of us have spent literal decades and presumably 100's/1000's of hours in this forum. You think I actually have a life? I've heard grass is blue coloured.
Ok joke joke.
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No one is saying we should be winning all 17 games. Did you get that triggered by the suggestion that the Fulham performance wasn't that different to the games we have had with Amorim?
I'd love to say it was a case of he was the weakness in tight games where the sides were pretty even. But it's clear even against the likes of Grimsby and other teams who have inferior players, the opposition managers were able to school Amorim regularly. The guy was dragging the team down a few levels.
At the highest level of coaching, you simply can't say you only have one way to play then proceed to lay that way every game from virtually minute 1 to 90 regardless of the opposition, scoreline, home/away, competition. It was amateur hour stuff.
I guess you can’t answer the question I asked in my previous post then. You don’t trust yourself, so I don’t trust you to be honest or having any insight.
I don’t see that much similarities to the performance under Amorim. Now bring up a game this season and do comparison.
Yep. They would talk down to any poster who said that we could do better than Amorim, tell us to back our manager, question whether we were even United fans, and are now either hiding from this thread or popping in to tell us to put down our pitchforks and move on.
I remember that, the most annoying thing about it was that was a lot of stuff from Amorim inners that was just as bad or in some cases even worse that was getting ignored by the mods at the same time
It's pretty funny how 3/4 of an entire season doesn't count. Neither do results this season even but it's the "underlying stats" that trump all now. Because it's literally the only thing they can cling on to. Certain posters plastering xG graphs all over the Amorim thread when he was sacked was one of the cringiest things I've seen on here. And these arguments starting to appear again, as if the only difference between the dross we experienced under Amorim and Carrick is "luck"
You could see all these posters loving it in the matchday thread when we were struggling a bit in the first half of Fletcher's first game. Making jokes about the system after we went a goal down. I'm sure they'll be back here when we inevitably lose a game under Carrick.Apart from the overdose of sarcasm in your initial question your assumption that luck likely evens out over 17 games is questionable. Try flipping a coin 17 times a couple of times and report back. Similar principle.
Anyway I'm firmly in the wait and see camp on Carrick so not interested in estimating any PPG based on 3 games. Based on the Fulham game we will be looking for a new manager in the summer though. I'll spare this thread from bringing up any individual performance under Amorim.
I dont feel the our performance on Sunday was that bad compared to the performances under Amorim, we were on top at 2-0 and if Sesko had've scored that header that hit the post it would've been 3-0 and game over as Fulham would likely have folded knowing they wernt going to overturn a 3 goal deficit away from home.
I'm the exact same!
I feel a bit like I was that guy in Lord Of The Rings with the cloudy eyes listening to Wormtongue!
Carrick is Gandalf!
Sunday has been miscategorised as the ending was nervy, but they created almost nothing of note from open play except that knock down shot from the corner.
By contrast, we had four headers in their 6 yard box (1 goal) and two big chances (higher xG than the best Fulham chance) on top of the other goals.
A football match is not flipping the coin… Your view on “similar” and “same” is very questionable, it is not even funny.
Let’s not move the goal post here. I didn’t ask for your opinion past this season (whether Carrick would get the permanent role or not. I asked whether you can make an educated prediction ppg for Carrick 17 games. Yet you still make a predict for beyond this season anyways based of one out of 3 games…
You made the claim about similar performance, bringing the topic of Carrick permanent appointment but can’t find examples of Amorim’s for comparison? Just more “trust me bro”, I guess.
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