Let it go! You will feel better. Find closure. More on, there is zero arrogance, fanboys or delusion.
He was the manager for 14 months, lots of bad decision were made and a few good one’s happened in between.
The End.
Ruben Amorim. Fired for being crap. Full stop. Just another addition for Amol as he loves it
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Let it go! You will feel better. Find closure. More on, there is zero arrogance, fanboys or delusion.
He was the manager for 14 months, lots of bad decision were made and a few good one’s happened in between.
The End.
Any need for such childish language? I have no idea what you’re talking about.
My point was: we got a good fee for Garnacho, if that wasn’t clear from the previous post.
Not in those games, no. Our attack was primarily Hojlund, Garnacho, Zirkzee, Mount and Amad. Amad got injured shortly after Amorim took over, so where would the goals come from? Hojlund was labelled as the worst striker we've ever had by some posters on here.In those first 20 games?
We scored 1.05 goals per game. The ”shit” ETH season previously we scored 1.5 goals per game.
So no, it wasn’t that. His record was one any other manager of a decent side would’ve been sacked for.
For comparison, after winning the league, Raneiri matched Amorim’s first 20 league games that following season, with 21 points. He was fired 5 games later, despite taking them to the fecking title the previous season.
I'm not interested in hearing how poor he was for us. I'm well aware of that. I only pointed out that Dansk's post was the opposite exaggeration of the guy who called Amorim a genius. Both acting as wind up merchants to each other.
Your tone throughout this thread is seriously childish and unnecessary.
A word of advice. You’re still a newbie and you are calling people idiots and fan boys, which is not acceptable and will see your time here cut short if you persist.
Please change your tone and discuss things in the correct manner.
I read that it was about how things went wrong, not a letter to the fans. A letter to the fans wouldn't be distracting, but if he starts claiming this player did that and Wilcox, etc. did that, then it would. Anyway whatever he says is self-serving nonsense and his behaviour and performance spoke louder than any words will.
And we had the good fortune to face Liverpool during their worst form in a decade. Our win came in the middle of a run of something like seven consecutive losses for them. They lost to absolutely everyone they faced for a month and a half. While it's always great to beat them, that particular win has to be judged through that lens. It was not a case of Amorim leading us to beat the mighty, unstoppable Liverpool by virtue of his managerial prowess. We simply played them at a time when they were utterly broken and lost absolutely all games. And even then, we just barely beat them. Other teams that faced them during that period beat them much more convincingly than we did.
Same thing with the Chelsea game. They had a player sent off after five minutes, and we were able to score twice while it was 11v10. Then Casemiro got sent off at the end of the first half, and as soon as we didn't have an extra man on them, we were on the ropes and clung to the lead by our fingertips while Chelsea were measurably better. Another example where, far from us winning because we had Amorim coaching us, we barely scraped by despite extremely favorable conditions. At no point was it his system or game management that got us the win. I can't think of any game at all under him where you could tell that his influence was the thing that brought it home. On the contrary, we were always struggling visibly because of that and it was abundantly clear that the few wins we got came when we were able to benefit from other factors than his system.
And any talk of him raising us from 15th to 6th place should be held up against the fact that this is a crazy season where Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Newcastle are all having a disaster season. We had 31 points on matchday 20 when Amorim was sacked. Last season, 31 points on matchday 20 would have us in 9th place. Same spot the season before, and the one before that. He didn't bring us up into 6th place in any meaningful sense. For the purposes of analyzing what level he brought us to, it's 8th-9th place in nearly any other season with that amount of points. The fact that most of the top PL teams are currently having a shit season is not somehow to his credit. It made him look much better than he ever was. For all intents and purposes, the best he could accomplish with Manchester fecking United is 9th place in any ordinary season, and out of both cups in the very first round.
That would still be our worst season in decades. Worse than Moyes, LVG, Jose, OGS and ETH. Who can possibly call that progress? Who can take themselves seriously while lamenting the departure of a manager who had us on course for our worst season in the Premier League era? That's nothing short of insanity. The man won a third of his games. To do that at a club of this stature, with such good players at his disposal, is a historically unprecedented failure. Nobody else has ever had such an atrocious win rate over the course of more than a year with one of the big clubs. He is the worst manager that the PL has ever seen, when we take everything into account. And there are people who wanted to keep him. It's shameful really.
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Gittens went for 52m in the same window. We could have easily got 55m for Garnacho had Amorim not publicly exiled Garnacho. David Gill was right to question the logic of the 'bomb squad'.He cost us Garnacho millions?
You know we sold him for £40m, potentially rising and a 10% sell-on? We absolutely rinsed Chelsea.
Exactly. negotiations 101. Dont tell any buyers you are desperate to get rid. Anyway, all of this is a distraction from the clear conclusion that Amorim is the worst manager we ever had.
Hence why he’s absolutely in the running for the worst ever PL manager. 240m spent.
Horrendous ppg ratio, horrendous win rate and with one of the biggest clubs in the country.
He’d have been sacked by anyone else after 15-20 games, it’s truly unbelievable he managed 47 league game for us.
Beautiful writing. I absolutely enjoyed every word you wrote there!
You held every excuse accountable while also using contradictions mentioned by these Amorim Elites. Absolutely baffling how he can get any ounce of praise for what he did for 14 months. The only praise I can give to Amorim is how he managed to fool a portion of the fans into backing him. We can see how some here can be gaslit so easily. Almost like they have daddy issues or something.
Ah so they were just exaggerating. Let's pretend they were all just wums who kept wumming for almost a whole year. Alright, they got me.
There is having poor takes and there's acting all self righteous for months, acting like you're seeing something others aren't able to see. Using every excuse under the sun to argue the manager is good and we will all end up with egg on our faces when this mythical masterplan finally clicks.
Now that it has turned out everyone who vehemently defended Amorim was utterly wrong, now you guys what to shut the discussion down. But like I said, once Carrick loses his first game, certain posters who were "just exaggerating" will be back here.
Very good post and I have to admit I share the same view, not only now, after he got the sack, but during the "nightmare" period as well.
I would also like to point out the monologue from last season, at the end, after the Villa game, I felt like throwing up when I first saw it and I will never forget the impertinence of the guy that was practically insulting the entire fanbase. Also like you, I share a special hate for him, like I never had for any of our ex managers or even players.
I will always wonder, without trying to act superior, smarter or more knowledgeable than others, how on Earth this Carlos Kaiser of football coaches managed to convince the board of a club like ours, who let's be honest might not be the brightest of the bunch, but a big portion of our fanbase that he knows what he's doing, when it was clear as daylight even from the first few months that the guy was a complete fraud?
I will always wonder that for years to come...
I'm not sure it can be proven, but I'm pretty sure if WW3 breaks out, it's probably also down to that fraud snake oil salesman with a heart full of pure hatred.
He was very good at interviews. He could smooth talk his way out of abject performances and multiple losses in a row. I fell for it for the first 2-3 months, but it started wearing thin around February last year. For others, it seems they were so enchanted by his charm that they were willing to overlook all of the evidence staring them in the face right up until he was sacked.
It is also why he got such a free ride from the press. If he looked and spoke like Ten Hag then he would have been torn to shreds in the media after a couple of months in the job.
His smooth talking was lost on me as soon as that horror show of a performance in the UEL Final came to a close. I was sick to the back teeth of listening to this man talk-the-talk but drastically failing to walk-the-walk. It was stomach churning and would fill me to the brim with rage.
Your last sentence is something I've echoed quite loudly in my own personal circles, group chats and even work conversations. Amorim was awarded a certain level of "pretty privilege" by the cultists that clung on to every word he uttered (and still are now), to portions of the media and even as far as own footballing hierarchy. His suave and fashionable appearance eased peoples view on him, as subconsciously his appearance almost provided lenience with his poor results or manner. He constantly wore the brand new club merchandise, which I'm sure he was asked to do, but he essentially became INEOS' very own catwalk model of all new pieces of apparel, conveniently all available to purchase directly off the United store as soon as the match ended.
His appearance afforded him all of this worship from his acolytes and I refuse to believe anything different.
No doubt. As I posted earlier, Christian Gross had a better record than him but Gross came across as a bit of a dork and the media ridiculed him from day one.
.
The Portuguese Bloke looked good and had a good grasp of English, which seemed to take him a long long way.
Ole and Van Gaal also were decent in interviews, Ole was always positive and spoke nicely, while LVG was more of a Hollywood actor but both came under criticism from the fan base and NEITHER was as abject in terms of results like Amorim.
I would tend to believe it had more to do with the fact that he managed to con everyone into the belief that his system will eventually work, the dreaded 3 atb, which obviously didn't, if we were to use a system with 4 at the back his excuses wouldn't have been that convincing.
the whole world thought the guy was something special, don’t get why people are rewriting history.
People can complain but the main issue was the formation. We could see he didn’t have the personnel for a 3 at the back but he still had us creating the most in the league and scoring around third. If he just did a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 he would have won way more. Also the defensive subs:
I honestly think he thought he had more time which went against him. Ineos should have told in he had to play a certain way until the signings came in.
In all reality why the fk would they sign a manager who plays 3 at the back. i understand it’s supposed to be an attack over load system but those possession dominating systems are so ugly to watch. It’s not how we are meant to play
Here’s the kicker: Amorim still doesn’t know why things went wrong. The performances, or rather the defeats, didn’t seem to have any affect on how he did things. He didn’t change tactics based on learning something the previous week. He just persisted with the same broken plan week after week. Maybe he really was getting high on his own supply and he still doesn’t see the error of his ways, he thinks nothing of how Carrick has us playing, and regards the 3 wins from 3 games as irrelevant. Remember, in his mind he was playing 4-d chess while the other coaches were playing checkers.
You just know we'll get some long drawn out bitching about broken promises, no backing, players not adapting, Redcafe lunatics doubting him, media mocking him about Mainoo and so on
Maybe it will be some 800 page screed against modernity, single spaced, punctuation optional.
To me framing this as "he just didn't have enough time" is wild. Like at what other club would a manager be given as much time as he was already given here to show anything? If you "don't have the personnel" then adapt. Who in their right mind would think it's a good idea to play in a suboptimal way for over a year? And how could you expect anyone to be sucessful in the long run with such methods?
He won't be able to release any letter (or make a public statement of any kind) in which he criticises the club, the staff or the players, because he'll be bound by the non-disparagement clause in his settlement agreement. The club can't slag him off publicly, either.
If he says or releases anything now or in the summer, it will only be the usual generic, "the fans were great", "goodluck for the future" type platitudes.
You didn’t read what I said, i never framed it as he didn’t have enough time.
What was mad was that despite his strong grasp of English that kept him in the job longer than he deserved, when he decided to throw Amass under the bus to protect his ego, the Amorim apologists on here blamed it on English being his second language.
Or attacked Amass for responding, because of course that makes him another "bad apple"
Did he take over a club in 14th and leave them 6th?
As above. He took us over in 14th and left us 6th. There were great results and poor results as he turned the ship around?
Did he respond? Missed that. What did he say?
He posted a picture of his "player of the month" award at Sheffield Wednesday, IIRC. Pretty tame response overall.
No.
He took over a club that had just won the FA Cup and finished 8th.
In November, just 12 weeks into the season, he took over.
He actually took over a side who had played just 11 games and were in 13th, but were just 4 points from top 3 and averaging 1.36 ppg with a win rate of 36.36%.
He took that and feck me did he make it worse, took them down to a historic low of 15th, tanked the win rate to 22.22% and tanked the points per game to 1 ppg. Finishing an astonishing 29 points off top 3.
After spending 240 million, he managed to improve his absolutely shite ppg to a little bit less shite 1.55 (and trending sharply downwards at the time of his dismissal ).
Most fans wanted ETH sacked after finishing 8th with 1.57 ppg and an FA Cup win.
Oh, and then Carrick came in and made even more of a fool of him, showing us all what an absolutely horrendous ego maniac of a manager he was.
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So ETH took over a half decent team. Made them worse after his first summer. Then made them worse again. The worst squad I can remember.No.
He took over a club that had just won the FA Cup and finished 8th.
In November, just 12 weeks into the season, he took over.
He actually took over a side who had played just 11 games and were in 13th, but just 4 points from the CL places and averaging 1.36 ppg with a win rate of 36.36%.
He took that and feck me did he make it worse, took them down to a historic low of 15th, tanked the win rate to 22.22% and tanked the points per game to 1 ppg.
After spending 240 million, he managed to improve his absolutely shite ppg to a little bit less shite 1.55 (and trending sharply downwards).
Most fans wanted ETH sacked after finishing 8th with 1.57 ppg and an FA Cup win.
Oh, and then Carrick came in and made even more of a fool of him.
Ruben came in said we needed to purge a rotten squad. Purged it. Results suffered as a matter of the course we were taking. Then Ruben had a summer to improve things and he did. Now we're looking quite healthy.
Thanks for providing stats to help with the narrative. And generally you would think the worst manager in history would make things worse, not better.
Thanks Ruben
maybe he should consider a role as Director of Football as his next job, if that's all he's good for. Because he's not any good at winning football matches.1. José Mourinho: 1.89 PPG
2. Ole Gunnar Solskjær: 1.81 PPG
3. Louis van Gaal: 1.79 PPG
4. Erik ten Hag: 1.72 PPG
5. David Moyes: 1.68 PPG
6. Ralf Rangnick: 1.54 PPG
7. Ruben Amorim: 1.27 PPG
“Thanks for being absolutely fecking shite”
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We had to suffer after ETH left us in ribbons. Now we're looking good.
The case for sacking Amorim was overwhelming and it can even be argued that INEOS waited too long to stop the rot. For me, what I saw in the Forest, Spurs and then Everton matches was shocking beyond belief and it was at that point, the defeat to 10-man Spurs, when the sack had to be dropped on Amorim.
I'm sorry but there's no way this isn't a windup. There's no possible reality where someone actually believes that Amorim was good at United. Either your just winding everyone up, Amorim himself, or being paid by Amorim. So which is it?
Due to ineos signings and the removal of an absolutely shite manager.
I’d also argue that not only did ETH massively outperform Amorim in every single metric, and won two trophies, he was also there when we signed our two best central defenders and our best (by far) midfielder, he’s also fully responsible for our second best midfielder (you know, the academy lad your crush wanted to flog).
By all accounts Amorim was thankfully ignored and overruled on Lemmans / Martinez and Mbeumo / Semenyo. Ignored on Mainoo, and he was caught slagging off Dorgu.
But sure, you keep pretending to yourself he was responsible for anything positive you can grasp to la’.
I’d say Ineos came in, took over a team with plenty of problems and has slowly been resolving them since. They then fecked up with a horrendous managerial appointment and fans everywhere were still claiming United shite and Ineos clueless, it just took removing and absolutely dog shite manager to see some of their positive moves.
Our best current side is likely:
Lammans (Amorim didn’t want)
Maz (ETH) De Ligt (ETH) Martinez (ETH) Shaw (LVG)
Mainoo (Amorim wanted rid) Casemiro (Amorim attempted to shift and freeze out his first January).
Bruno (Ole: Amorim thought he was a CM
)Amad (Ole: Amorim thought him a WB) Dorgu (Amorim slagged him off in front of players and media as a bag of nerves)
Mbeumo (Amorim want Semenyo)
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Hilariously, because he's not here anymore.
I don't know why he would have though he'd have more time though. He wasted an absurd amount of time playing in suboptimal way, time that he never would have gotten anywhere else. To the point he was probably surprised himself that he was still here. With all the comments about quitting it seems he had been looking for an exit for some time.
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