Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Red the Bear]

Our Portuguese managers have a perfect europa record.

They've won it every single time they participated in it!

 

[stevoc]

That‘s your opinion. It was eventually clear to me what Ten Hag was trying to do, the team could not do it consistently.

It is not so different now.

It was clear it was never going to work regardless of players. Especially as he hand picked virtually a new squad to play his style.

 

[stevoc]

TH gave up on what he was trying to achieve, as in playing like Ajax, like he was bought in to do.
Remember when he said "We will never play the football we played at Ajax here" He just allowed the players to dictate the way we played then.

Where do you get the idea that he was brought into make us play like exactly Ajax or that Ten Hag ever wanted United to play that way?

The players absolutely not dictate the way we played last season and up until October this season. As evidenced by the fact we looked a more solid outfit when he eventually switched tactics in the lead up to the FA Cup final.

 

[Lemon Custard]

Why mentioning Fergie, this is about post SAF period

Where did you specify post SAF?

"When ever you trade your philosophy for survival, there is only one outcome in United, question is just when."

You're making a big claim about the way things work at United, yet want to ignore the manager who survived at the club the longest?
And even in the post-SAF period, do you think David Moyes got sacked because he betrayed his philosophy? There is a better case to be made that he got sacked for not changing his philsophy, e.g. buying Fellaini.

 

[stevoc]

Yea and where are all those that adapted in United,

One of them won 13 League titles and 2 European Cups

also adapting to opposition means its not you who dictating dominating shit, guess those coaches are idiots.

Name one coach in world football who never adapts their tactics based on the opposition they are playing and the players they have available?

Ten Hag for most of last season is a good example of this but even he eventually switched it up for the Cup Final.

 

[stevoc]

None of the managers from Ole onwards could really implement what they wanted to do because ultimately the players were allowed to do what they want, work hard when they felt like it and turn the dressing room toxic without fear of losing their place or being sold. I'm just speculating of course, but I don't think it's a coincidence this is finally changing even if just a little bit when the Glazers are no longer in charge of the football side. Implementing any kind of style of play and tactics takes a buy in, discipline and cohesion amongst the players. We have none of that and will continue to have none of it until the dressing room is completely reset the way Arsenal reset their dressing room for Arteta.

Between Ole and Ten Hag we had virtually a different squad. Dressing room culture is the responsibility of the manager, if it's bad it's their failing. Even more so if they've signed 80% of the squad.

 

[romufc]

Between Ole and Ten Hag we had virtually a different squad. Dressing room culture is the responsibility of the manager, if it's bad it's their failing. Even more so if they've signed 80% of the squad.

Yep, I dont understand why fans actually think its the same players... when in fact if you look at Ten Hag's line up this season, how many were regulars under Ole? Bruno, Shaw? Thats it.

The rest of the 11 was new or with younger players...

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

Between Ole and Ten Hag we had virtually a different squad. Dressing room culture is the responsibility of the manager, if it's bad it's their failing. Even more so if they've signed 80% of the squad.

Before you apply any context in a vacuum this is true. Not so simple at United however and that's not an opinion.

 

[stevoc]

Before you apply any context in a vacuum this is true. Not so simple at United however and that's not an opinion.

The point remains though. Squad/team culture are created and maintained primarily by the manager. If it is bad then that's on the manager.

 

[sugar_kane]

I've been fairly critical of him the last few weeks but one thing I will say is he seems to have raised the floor of a number of players.

Over the last few years we'd seen some players swinging from 9/10 performances to 0/10 almost week to week, but now we have a core group of players who consistently churn out 5s or 6s every game. This is something to build on.

It comes across at it's worst moments like we're mediocre all over the pitch, but it's much rarer for individual performances to wildly fluctuate. This suggests the team have more of a plan that they're working to and maybe there is a mentality shift happening.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

Yep, I dont understand why fans actually think its the same players... when in fact if you look at Ten Hag's line up this season, how many were regulars under Ole? Bruno, Shaw? Thats it.

The rest of the 11 was new or with younger players...

If it's about the atmosphere in the dressing room, who was in the starting 11 is basically irrelevant.

 

[stevoc]

Yep, I dont understand why fans actually think its the same players... when in fact if you look at Ten Hag's line up this season, how many were regulars under Ole? Bruno, Shaw? Thats it.

The rest of the 11 was new or with younger players...

It's an enduring mystery to be honest. I can only assume some don't keep track of the make-up of the squad.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

The point remains though. Squad/team culture are created and maintained primarily by the manager. If it is bad then that's on the manager.

Then enjoy discussions with no context. I'm well aware of basic manager responsibilities.

 

[romufc]

If it's about the atmosphere in the dressing room, who was in the starting 11 is basically irrelevant.

Oh yeah I forget... a change in the team, captain, leaders would be irrelevant to the dressing room...

 

[stevoc]

If it's about the atmosphere in the dressing room, who was in the starting 11 is basically irrelevant.

Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot, Bruno and Rashford are basically the only players to play for Ole and Ten Hag this season.

 

[steeeb]

Looking better defensively except for the odd silly mistake or GK blunder.

Starting to create chances.

As soon as we start finishing chances we'll look a different team.

Needs time and at least a good window or 2.

 

[romufc]

Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot, Bruno and Rashford are basically the only players to play for Ole and Ten Hag this season.

Also... apart from Rashford, cannot see anyone who is toxic in that list. Bruno is loved by all the players...

 

[Leftback99]

That‘s your opinion. It was eventually clear to me what Ten Hag was trying to do, the team could not do it consistently.

It is not so different now.

Destroy us?

 

[stevoc]

Then enjoy discussions with no context. I'm well aware of basic manager responsibilities.

I'm adding context. You can't just say the dressing room is toxic and the manager suffered because of it without acknowledging that the manager was primarily responsible for it.

 

[stevoc]

Also... apart from Rashford, cannot see anyone who is toxic in that list. Bruno is loved by all the players...

Maguire, Bruno and Dalot couldn't be accused of not trying and the first two have performed well under Ten Hag and Amorim. Shaw and Lindelof have barely played.

So it's only Rashford as you say who could be suspected of being a negative presence, the fact he's the only player Amorim froze out would strengthen that theory.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

Oh yeah I forget... a change in the team, captain, leaders would be irrelevant to the dressing room...

? That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

[romufc]

? That's exactly what I'm saying.

Didn't pick the sarcasm...

 

[Houdini]

TH gave up on what he was trying to achieve, as in playing like Ajax, like he was bought in to do.
Remember when he said "We will never play the football we played at Ajax here" He just allowed the players to dictate the way we played then.

The pace of the game is different. Ibra explained it vry well. That is why so many players fail in the EPL. So what has worked in Ajax/Sporting does not have to work here.

 

[NLunited]

TH gave up on what he was trying to achieve, as in playing like Ajax, like he was bought in to do.
Remember when he said "We will never play the football we played at Ajax here" He just allowed the players to dictate the way we played then.

That is partially true for the first season. Ajax under Ten Hag played pragmatic against the big teams in Europe.

The second season was ruined by injuries (yet, 8th place instead of 15th).

The third season was an actual attempt at changing to a different more pro-active style. Amorim is doing the same.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

7 CBs is more than enough. Heaven and Yoro may be teenagers but they have all the attributes we're looking for. We'd actually find it difficult to sign a better player than Yoro on the market, especially given our circumstances. We are expecting Martinez and Shaw to return at some stage so what do we do with 8 players competing for 3 positions when they do?

The whole idea of having 2 players for each position or 6 centre halves for 3 positions is to allow for injuries and have some rotation. We'll have 7. The fact that 2 are injured does not warrant signing an 8th. That's madness especially when we are so bare up front and in midfield in terms of quality and even in terms of pure numbers.

Priority 1 is a technical dangerous forward. Priority 2 is a technical wizard in midfield.
Priority 3 is a goalkeeper.
Centre half is about 7th down the list, not 1st.

We don’t have 7 CBs that we can use. Yes you have to consider that 2 of them cannot in any way be relied upon. Shaw and Martinez can leave - neither of which are well suited in any case, even if my some miracle they were fit.

In no way did I say it was our ‘first’ priority - but yes we need a CB, and yes the club can work on multiple deals at the same time.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Because when we play Liverpool, Arsenal and City, they dominate possession and it lends itself well to playing on the counter. They push high, look to break us down (as we try and fail vs smaller teams) and therefore leave themselves open.

It’s not even a choice.

Even if we wanted to play a high line and be on the front foot, we wouldn’t be able to against Arsenal. Their play pushes us back, we don’t have the ability to play through their press, and can’t get high up the pitch in possession of the football.

Arsenal are simply far too good at recycling the ball and winning in back.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[pocco]

That’ll be like a dagger to the heart to some on here.

 

[Posh Red]

That’ll be like a dagger to the heart to some on here.

‘On thin ice’

 

[pocco]

It’s not even a choice.

Even if we wanted to play a high line and be on the front foot, we wouldn’t be able to against Arsenal. Their play pushes us back, we don’t have the ability to play through their press, and can’t get high up the pitch in possession of the football.

Arsenal are simply far too good at recycling the ball and winning in back.

Yeah that goes without saying. Not sure what some people expect us to do. Amorim said himself that we won’t be playing like that in the future ie we will be holding our own against these sort of teams.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[stevoc]

The dreaded vote of confidence.

 

[erikcred]

That’ll be like a dagger to the heart to some on here.

The real dagger is finding out that `body language consultant' is a job one could aim for and it pays quite well.

 

[clarkydaz]

Staggering reading that yet being told the Glazers are brilliant business men

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[DJ_21]

Then back him!

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Yes, everyone should never trust their own lying eyes! Instead, they should listen to people saying all this coach needs is an entirely new team and years to train them before we’re good again. As you were, Caf.

Or, you could just use the fine combination of common sense and a bit of humility to avoid going 200 % Dunning Kruger. He’s not even claiming that he needs all that himself. The question every fan needs to ask themselves is: Do you think we’ll have a better chance of becoming regular title contenders the next decade by keeping doing business as usual and switching coaches every year or two paying huge severance packages and constantly changing playing style, or by backing the up and coming talented young coach hailed by other professionals and experts who quit a good job mid season against his will to come here and implement a proven style of play? And by backing him I don’t mean indefinitely, but definitely more than a few months.

 

[NLunited]

The new thing to try is to sack a manager after six months, we haven‘t tried that yet.

But let‘s not, I don‘t believe in that if the coach is good.

 

[jasT1981]

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on Amorim: "Yeah I do, honestly [believe he can succeed]. I really, really like Ruben. He’s a very thoughtful guy. "Every time I go to the training ground, I speak to Ruben. I sit down and have a cup of coffee with him and tell him where it’s going wrong, and he tells me to f**k off. I like him."

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Or, you could just use the fine combination of common sense and a bit of humility to avoid going 200 % Dunning Kruger. He’s not even claiming that he needs all that himself. The question every fan needs to ask themselves is: Do you think we’ll have a better chance of becoming regular title contenders the next decade by keeping doing business as usual and switching coaches every year or two paying huge severance packages and constantly changing playing style, or by backing the up and coming talented young coach hailed by other professionals and experts who quit a good job mid season against his will to come here and implement a proven style of play? And by backing him I don’t mean indefinitely, but definitely more than a few months.

I think we will never be title contenders under Amorim's reign.