Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You’ve typed at length and it’s appreciated - but I'm struggling to find the substance in this post. At least to a level that justifies Amorim being credited with bringing a scalpel to United relative to his predecessors.

I mean, time and again - this thread is populated with posts - often arguing in Amorim's favour - stating that the system change and conversations around it are blown out of proportions because the system/system change is not as impactful nor responsible for our current woes; as say the quality of player.

"talked about big behind the scenes changes that are ongoing" - what does that even mean? what's the substance here? Ten Hag did the same (and unlike Amorim, Ten Hag did actually preside over a reported management structural change and even ownership change) - and I'd hazard a guess so did the ones before him

"acceptance that the team will have to 'suffer" for long-term improvements" - again what does this mean in relation to being someone making impactful change? It's a statement that manages expectations, I get - but beyond that - what? You don't have to be this bad to be good again, and being this bad isn't a guarantee that you'll be good again. The stubbornness and lack of flexibility/adaptability - that some could argue is a deficiency in tactical nous - is being presented and positioned as a plus, and I could understand that if we weren't 7/8 months with not upward tick

Getting rid of problematic influences is standard managerial stuff - and again, players being isolated, banished and shipped out is something United - both club and fans - have empowered and supported managers to do regardless of player status and/or pay bracket. Again, this isn't an Amorim phenomenon - easily verifiable too

It seems as though you're acknowledging in your post that you're stretching plausibility to credit Amorim with Cunha's deal potentially being done early. So I won't even argue this point because - really? Come on. This also applies to the last two sentences - the squad needs a overhaul - almost every manager wants one - recruitment strategy isn't an Amorim thing - in fact, his role is "Head Coach" in contrast to "First Team Manager"

It's OK to want Amorim to stay because he's likeable/charismatic, because you liked glimpses of what you've seen - even if sparingly - or even because "feck it, I just have a feeling" - but when we start crediting the fellow with bringing a scalpel to United and the only thing that we can say is he changed the system; albeit to one that hasn't succeeded for us yet and that people often argue is not that important, player quality supplants it (to support him, mind) - things start getting a bit shaky. But alas,

Yeah there’s absolutely zero substance in his post to be honest, it’s all just his own personal vibes.
Mourinho wanted rid of bad influences, then Ole wanted a cultural reset, Ten Hag wanted no more Ronaldo and couldn’t give the waster Sancho the time of day.
Not sure why anyone should get so much credit for wanting rid of a few players.

 

[stevoc]

He performed better, even in the beginning of this season. It was not good enough by far, but throwing out Ashworth, the game model and hiring Amorim who did a lot worse were mistakes in hindsight.

I‘m not the one who should be criticized for supporting a coach I‘ve admired at Ajax. The criticism and vitriol was over the top, we have seen nothing like it for Amorim.

I‘d like to see a more balanced reaction. We are in 16th place in PL, 8th place with an insane amount of injuries was labeled catastrophic last season.

I can‘t find positives anymore in our games lately: we are dismal.

Surely you should understand the wish to appoint a steady hand at this time, instead of persisting with this?

Ten Hag more than deserved to be sacked. Many of the factors contrbiuting to our struggles under Amorim can be traced back to Ten Hags decisions.

 

[stevoc]

Aye you were quite the expert at this when Ten Hag was still in a job

Indeed

 

[gaffs]

I would say yes, but of course there's no perfect answer or solution. Of course we have holes in the squad, I do not think it's as glaring (or needs to made as glaring more aptly) as we see. Disagree on Chelsea, I think they have a super strong team, they're just quite young/erratic but they will be a real force in the league in my opinion even with Maresca who I think is a bit average for a long time.

We clearly have big holes in the squad for this system such as a defender that can step into midfield - Yoro can but is likely out for Wednesday. A forward who can hold up, as discussed. Two wing backs, 10s the can press and an area that doesn't get talked about is the two DMs - I think we are light in there too when compared to the energy that Amorim had in his parents at Sporting.

Chelsea have tons of potential, but my point is that they have a spine of players they can bank on even when they are being erratic. You can say the same for most PL teams. We don't.

I am not sure on effort, Europa is just weaker so would agree on physicality (no offence to Sociedad, Lyon, Rangers) the one team people said would be good were Bilbao and I guess we never really saw how that would have been 11 on 11 but the final is 16th vs 17th in the PL. Case in point, Zirkzee was dribbling people and outpacing people in Europa, I don't think that ever happened in any PL game.

Agree EL is weaker. But is it really weaker than playing an absolutely dreadful West Ham at home and getting beat 2-0?

Still think there is a different level of motivation / urgency in the Europa. Bruno and Amorim have said the same. Maybe because they are playing for that 25% pay bump? Maybe when there is something on the line they up their game? This is partly why i think the PL motivation is not there. We have be resigned to mid table since January. The Europa League comes along and even more focus goes there at the expense of the Prem and we continue to slide. That could have been an issue for any manager.

Then you add into the mix the point you raised that the Europa is physicality weaker than the PL. If we are not physically strong enough for the PL, then why the hell not? And wouldn't that be an issue regardless of manager and system ? Hopefully this is a reason we are targeting PL proven players this summer.

I agree we're seeing the attempted adaptation of a number of players mid season, in the same way we're seeing Amorim attempt to adapt the players to what he wants, on an individual level we have certainly seen Hojlund trying to link stuff up more. The sad thing is, maybe mirroring what I feel is happening to Amorim, I feel like the damage done by being almost like a trial by fire approach might be impossible to shake off. Agree re Atalanta, clearly a different setup and much more pace around him/direct play + I would say a league where big fast units get more joy.

Agree, it probably is demoralising for players like Hojlund to be learning and failing on the job. Same for players like Maz, who seem to have dropped off since Amorim came in - the guy is never a wing back and may not be fully comfortable at RCB.

Agree Hojlund is not good enough to start, for the final though I think it's a rare game I would play him. The reality is he does have speed and he is good at running channel then just laying someone off. We're playing a team who play a high line, are shocking at the back and Romero is not that quick, it's a rare game he is suited for IF we play to the strengths of the team. Feel like if we keep trying to play out from the back against Spurs knowing we are shit at it, will either be the most ballsy move possible from Amorim to prove his point if it comes off or we'll get turned over like 5-0.

Maybe one for the game build up thread, but I don't expect Spurs to be playing that YOLO high line. They were far more pragmatic and disciplined v Bodo and Frankfurt.

Agree on playing out of the back though. For us, it is suicide against any team. Though playing long isn't great with a forward like Hojlund and players who don't tend to win second balls.

Im going to the final. Im shitting it!!!!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Dalot isn't bad but I wouldn't be shouting about Dalot... there are plenty out there better than him. It seems that you think that a player cannot change from RWB to RB... Liverpool have just signed a player that primarily plays RWB to play RB...

Hojlund had streaky season, but its nothing impressive what he did last season, and by his own saying, this system and formation suits him better, yet is struggling.

No I refuse to accept it, you know why? in the games leading up to the sack of Ten Hag... the players were bad, its not as if they were all in some amazing form at the start of the season and we sacked the manager, changed to a 343 and suddenly everyone dropped off.

You can keep repeating something if you want, but you're proving you can't actually engage on something which makes me think this will just be a waste of time/clog the forum. Good day.

 

[tomaldinho1]

We clearly have big holes in the squad for this system such as a defender that can step into midfield - Yoro can but is likely out for Wednesday. A forward who can hold up, as discussed. Two wing backs, 10s the can press and an area that doesn't get talked about is the two DMs - I think we are light in there too when compared to the energy that Amorim had in his parents at Sporting.

Chelsea have tons of potential, but my point is that they have a spine of players they can bank on even when they are being erratic. You can say the same for most PL teams. We don't.

I guess my idea here that I will never be able to prove/disprove is that we would not think we had so many gaps if we changed how we play. Even if Amorim's long term goal was 343, I would think there's no benefit to him having been a stickler for it these 25 odd games when it seems like we'll just jettison half the players to make it work.

Agree EL is weaker. But is it really weaker than playing an absolutely dreadful West Ham at home and getting beat 2-0?

Still think there is a different level of motivation / urgency in the Europa. Bruno and Amorim have said the same. Maybe because they are playing for that 25% pay bump? Maybe when there is something on the line they up their game? This is partly why i think the PL motivation is not there. We have be resigned to mid table since January. The Europa League comes along and even more focus goes there at the expense of the Prem and we continue to slide. That could have been an issue for any manager.

Then you add into the mix the point you raised that the Europa is physicality weaker than the PL. If we are not physically strong enough for the PL, then why the hell not? And wouldn't that be an issue regardless of manager and system ? Hopefully this is a reason we are targeting PL proven players this summer.

I think post Bmouth the team has been focused on the EL, so I'm not really holding any of these last games against Amorim. Even though we started a strong team in some of them, I think players will be conserving energy/not pushing themselves 100%. I don;t buy we aren't strong enough for the PL, we've seen quite slow, non physcial teams do ok, it's more that if we want to play this style of football it seems we need much more pace and technical skill, which makes me think recruiting for this system will be wallet emptying, which I wouldn't mind if we'd seen something to believe in (I appreciate you might have, I have yet to).

Agree, it probably is demoralising for players like Hojlund to be learning and failing on the job. Same for players like Maz, who seem to have dropped off since Amorim came in - the guy is never a wing back and may not be fully comfortable at RCB.

Yeah agreed, Maz is great cover at RCB - I think he's done admirably - but he's an RB.

Maybe one for the game build up thread, but I don't expect Spurs to be playing that YOLO high line. They were far more pragmatic and disciplined v Bodo and Frankfurt.

Agree on playing out of the back though. For us, it is suicide against any team. Though playing long isn't great with a forward like Hojlund and players who don't tend to win second balls.

Im going to the final. Im shitting it!!!!

It will be interesting to see if the supposedly two inflexible managers change things. I can't see Amorim changing anything now, it would backfire massively against him if we then lost but, as you say, Ange did go for the result vs Bodo second leg, I wonder if we might see something different from him. I think that would suit us, if they sit in a bit I will be very confident, if they press high and we play out I think I might actually shit myself.

 

[gaffs]

We heard the same with ETH, tough stance on Sancho, tough on older players like Ronaldo.

It means less than nothing until it turns into results.

Agree, but that was just one of many points.

 

[romufc]

We heard the same with ETH, tough stance on Sancho, tough on older players like Ronaldo.

It means less than nothing until it turns into results.

The problem with Ten Hag was it was double standards.... when Rashford was messing around, he wouldn't get punished like the rest because he was scoring goals.

Ten Hag was also double standards with Amad... kept saying you have to do well in training to play, then said Amad is doing very well and they have to perform.

 

[NLunited]

The problem with a steady the ship job is.... sooner or later the ship will sink again.

The reason Amorim was brought in was so its not a patch repair job.... its to prepare a new ship that is sustainable.

Awww

 

[NLunited]

The problem with Ten Hag was it was double standards.... when Rashford was messing around, he wouldn't get punished like the rest because he was scoring goals.

Ten Hag was also double standards with Amad... kept saying you have to do well in training to play, then said Amad is doing very well and they have to perform.

Amad came good the last part of last season. This season he was a consistent starter under Ten Hag. Imo he started games when he was ready to.

He did say Amad was training well at one point, but would have to wait for his chance because others were performing well. I agree about Rashford though.

 

[UnitedSofa]

 

[gaffs]

I guess my idea here that I will never be able to prove/disprove is that we would not think we had so many gaps if we changed how we play. Even if Amorim's long term goal was 343, I would think there's no benefit to him having been a stickler for it these 25 odd games when it seems like we'll just jettison half the players to make it work.

I think Amorim thought that this season he would at least find 4 or 5 players he could confidently take forward into next season and beyond when playing in his 3421.

I dont think he expected that so few could adapt. Maybe they could with a pre season, who knows?

Then the stubbornness kicked in of him not wanting to change.

But then again, we dont know for sure if Amorim, or any other manager, coming in and playing 4 at the back would have made any difference. We dont know if keeping Ten Hag would have led us to a CL place or into 16th.

Like I said on other posts, this is a rag tag bunch for many reasons. Too many players who have questions marks over them for different reasons. That was a reason i mentioned Chelsea earlier - there are no question marks over their players that constitute the core of their team.

My take is that ETH allowed this squad to play a brand of "ad hoc" football and relied on players like Bruno and Rashford to dig us out. He tried to play a more defined system but he abandoned it early in his first two seasons.

Amorim comes in with a far more structured approach and they players, in my opinion, at times, appear to be a little paralysed by it. They cant compute and second guess their instincts. Perhaps thinking more about where to be and what to do than allowing their instinct to take over.

Part reason why i think that we look poor starting games when the managers instructions or systems are fresh in players heads. When we are chasing, the players look more free.

Though saying this, this article from his Sporting days (which got me so excited about Amorim back in 2022) said one of his key abilities was his...
"ability to give clear and simple instructions that make sense to his players. Some coaches might overcomplicate the game but Amorim would rather give simple instructions that are fully understood than complex instructions that are half-grasped"
http://archive.is/latest/www.nytime...ootball-ruben-amorim-europes-next-supercoach/

So maybe the simple instructions only work when the system is drilled pre seasons? Or these lot dont even get the simple instuctions? Who knows?

If someone comes in and implements a system with more structure, then i can understand there is a learning curve. Amorim understood this and said we would suffer and reportedly didnt want the job mid season.

I think post Bmouth the team has been focused on the EL, so I'm not really holding any of these last games against Amorim. Even though we started a strong team in some of them, I think players will be conserving energy/not pushing themselves 100%. I don;t buy we aren't strong enough for the PL, we've seen quite slow, non physcial teams do ok, it's more that if we want to play this style of football it seems we need much more pace and technical skill, which makes me think recruiting for this system will be wallet emptying, which I wouldn't mind if we'd seen something to believe in (I appreciate you might have, I have yet to).

Which teams did will in the PL that were slow and non physical? I guess they must have been blessed by an abundance of skill or technical ability?

I think regardless of system or who the manager is, we need more pace and technical skill in this team. So even if the players come in and Amorim is fired, they shouldnt be surplus to requirements like some of Ten Hag's Dutch duds. Hopefully now there is a "footballing team" above the manager, this is considered.

Yeah agreed, Maz is great cover at RCB - I think he's done admirably - but he's an RB.

Agree. And i think a pretty limited right back too. Not a big enough improvement on Dallot imo.

It will be interesting to see if the supposedly two inflexible managers change things. I can't see Amorim changing anything now, it would backfire massively against him if we then lost but, as you say, Ange did go for the result vs Bodo second leg, I wonder if we might see something different from him. I think that would suit us, if they sit in a bit I will be very confident, if they press high and we play out I think I might actually shit myself.

I think Amorim is the more inflexible, thus far. For some reason though, i think he will try something in the final and it will involve benching Hojlund. He will get pelters if Hojlund is as useless on Wednesday as he was v Chelsea. Perhaps Amorim didnt want to show his cards v Chelsea so he left Hojlund on. Maybe wishful thinking.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

As club supporters we are all humiliated by our final position in the PL, whether it be 16th or 17th, but on a purely objective basis it makes no difference whatsoever whether we ended up in 10th or 17th. Emotionally, the difference is massive.

As for whether Amorim is or is not on the right track doesn't turn on whether we landed on 10th. It turns entirely on whether we do or don't qualify for the CL next season. I would much rather have us quality for the CL by winning the EL even if it meant ending in 17th place than landing on 10th place and crashing out of the EL during one of the knockout rounds.

The reason I reach this conclusion is because football is a results-driven business. But it's more than that -- Ruben has players who for the most part are unfit for his tactics and we either have to commit to rebuilding the squad for his tactics or abandon the project by sacking him and starting the project all over again.

However, and perhaps we might agree on this -- even if we win the EL trophy this week INEOS might still be wise to sack Amorim and start the project all over again with an experienced manager who can wring something out of these players rather than pursue the complete overhaul of the squad that would be required under Amorim and would probably take 2-3 seasons to effectuate. I'm not committed to this view but I do accept that it might be best to accept that 343 may never succeed in the PL and that we just don't have the reserves in the vault to withstand 2-3 more seasons in the wilderness while the squad is being rebuilt.

We have lost too many games recently to suggest that Amorim is on the right track, even if we win the EL. Just compare ETH and the FA Cup. Winning the EL will obviously be much better money-wise than finishing 10th or even 6th.

I don't think that Amorim will be a success and I wouldn't complain if he was fired on Sunday even if we win the EL, but I think he will be our manager in August. I absolutely see the point in him getting a transfer window but I have zero confidence in his tactics.

 

[Posh Red]

I can have 6 tickets for the final, if someone is interested please let me know.

The original price is 240€ each, so taking into account that please understand that won´t be sell very cheap.

Are tickets from the UEFA in the neutral area btw.

Are you touting?

 

[Pickle85]

If someone has a real interest yes, I apply to the draw that UEFA did on the official website, as they did not sell all the tickets, now I can buy them, but I will only buy them if someone has a real interest ( if still available at that moment).

I can buy 4 with one email and 2 more with a second email.

I´m doing the same here and in the spurs forum, bussines is business.

Can't imagine you'll be lasting long here.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Ludens the Red]

Prepare to be disappointed then.

And it’s nothing to do with ‘cult of the manager’, it’s acknowledging any manager in the world needs an actual window to bring in players capable to play a certain type of football. People here have their heads in the sand about the technical quality of our players, as evidenced by their inability to get results in the PL this year.

I think the people with their heads in the sand are those who think Amorim doesn’t share a large portion of responsibility for the current results. He himself has come out and acknowledged this. He himself has said someone else might have to take the job on. Does he have his head buried in the sand too then?

Six wins from twenty five is absolutely disgraceful and the fault is with Amorim AND the players. But we’re not selling 25 players this summer… so I’m afraid Amorim is likely the one to be ditched.

I’d take it to the grave with me that this team should not be in the bottom five of the PL with four league wins this year regardless of what goalpost shifting bollocks people wanna come up with in regards to the quality of the squad.

And the biggest issue with this squad in terms of dealing with the PL is not technical ability it’s their athleticism and mentality. Liverpool, Villa, Forest and Newcastle are in the top seven and there’s hardly a gulf of technical ability through their squad. It’s obvious from the league this year that there’s a massive shift towards the physical element and being successful.

 

[UnitedSofa]

 

[Woodzy]

Ogden has said that Amorim was going to resign in January but was talked out of it.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Ogden has said that Amorim was going to resign in January but was talked out of it.

The 40-year-old, who arrived from Portuguese champions Sporting CP last November following the dismissal of Erik ten Hag, said last week that he is "far from quitting" after suffering 13 defeats in 25 Premier League games, before adding that it would "normal" for the club to "change us" if United continue to fail under his leadership. In the same breath, Amorim ruled out leaving before raising the prospect that he might, and multiple sources have told ESPN that while Amorim has been managing the team, the United hierarchy have also had to manage the manager to reassure him that he will have the backing to turn the club around.

When he took the United job last November, Amorim, who had been considered by Liverpool as a successor to Jurgen Klopp 12 months ago, had initially wanted to see out the season at Sporting and then take charge at Old Trafford this summer due to the difficulties of imposing his tactical methods on an under-performing in mid-season. However, United held firm, insisting that they could not wait until the summer, so Amorim moved earlier than he'd wished.

His worst fears have since been borne out, spectacularly so, and the task he took on has proven to be so much bigger than he could ever have imagined. Several sources have told ESPN that Amorim had become so disenchanted with life at United in January, after a run of one win in eight games culminated in a 3-1 home defeat by Brighton, that he was prepared to resign, but was talked out of the idea by associates.

 

[Red in STL]

I think Amorim thought that this season he would at least find 4 or 5 players he could confidently take forward into next season and beyond when playing in his 3421.

And he has that number

Bruno, Amad, Maz, Yoro, De Ligt, Mount (assuming he stays fit) are players you can confidently take forward, the jury is still out on Dalot, Dorgu, Ugarte and Zirkzee + severala youngsters

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Wonder if he'll ever figure out a way to field a team with only 2 CBs during those 14 hour shifts.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Wonder if he'll ever figure out a way to field a team with only 2 CBs during those 14 hour shifts.

He could play De Ligt in CM and ask him to drop into the backline when we defend. Seriously, dropping a CB and playing an attacker is not going to happen.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

He could play De Ligt in CM and ask him to drop into the backline when we defend. Seriously, dropping a CB and playing an attacker is not going to happen.

Would've been nice to see him try that with Casemiro at some point over the past few months, just to give us an additional player with a goalscoring threat instead of relying on the likes of Lindelof at this stage of the season.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think Amorim thought that this season he would at least find 4 or 5 players he could confidently take forward into next season and beyond when playing in his 3421.

I dont think he expected that so few could adapt. Maybe they could with a pre season, who knows?

This is the million dollar question, because if you need an entire, or near enough, entire first eleven to get back to being top 4, I would argue it's not a good idea. As you say, if next season let's say we finish 6th and there's a core of players from this season + others improve things will seem much more rosy.

Then the stubbornness kicked in of him not wanting to change.

But then again, we dont know for sure if Amorim, or any other manager, coming in and playing 4 at the back would have made any difference. We dont know if keeping Ten Hag would have led us to a CL place or into 16th.

Like I said on other posts, this is a rag tag bunch for many reasons. Too many players who have questions marks over them for different reasons. That was a reason i mentioned Chelsea earlier - there are no question marks over their players that constitute the core of their team.

My take is that ETH allowed this squad to play a brand of "ad hoc" football and relied on players like Bruno and Rashford to dig us out. He tried to play a more defined system but he abandoned it early in his first two seasons.

My take on ETH is he was what I ultimately thought Ragnick was going to be, ok as a coach but more important in that he was a disciplinarian and, whilst that clearly went down poorly with the team + multiple players had rifts with him, even mentioned how the dressing room broke down, he ultimately started the cull that Amorim has a bit of an easier task of finishing now with Rashford, Sancho to depart and that's kind of it. His transfers people make a big meal out, but the key is we weren't signing Matic, Cavani, Ronaldo, Varane, Ibra and most were upfront expensive (still not good mind) but lower on wages, it's only really Case who is rumoured to be extremely high.

Maybe a conversation for a different thread but the real issue starts and ends with Woodward signing off on Sanchez' package, I remember the Telegraph added it all up and had he seen out the full deal it would have been something ridiculous like £170m paid out to him and his agent over the whole deal. I think we managed to get him off the books with a year and half to go or something, but it gives you an idea of how the transfer fee isn't really that big a deal (especially if they are young and you can at least sell and recoup a bit), it is the long deals and big wages that kill us. Same as Cavani, the 'free' transfer.

Amorim comes in with a far more structured approach and they players, in my opinion, at times, appear to be a little paralysed by it. They cant compute and second guess their instincts. Perhaps thinking more about where to be and what to do than allowing their instinct to take over.

I thin this is fair, basically their jobs are slightly different and they're getting used to it. Plus every team really goes after us now.

Part reason why i think that we look poor starting games when the managers instructions or systems are fresh in players heads. When we are chasing, the players look more free.

This has been the case at Untied for years I swear, Ole's best season I feel like we went behind almost every game and then suddenly came to life.

Though saying this, this article from his Sporting days (which got me so excited about Amorim back in 2022) said one of his key abilities was his...
"ability to give clear and simple instructions that make sense to his players. Some coaches might overcomplicate the game but Amorim would rather give simple instructions that are fully understood than complex instructions that are half-grasped"
http://archive.is/latest/www.nytime...ootball-ruben-amorim-europes-next-supercoach/

So maybe the simple instructions only work when the system is drilled pre seasons? Or these lot dont even get the simple instuctions? Who knows?

If someone comes in and implements a system with more structure, then i can understand there is a learning curve. Amorim understood this and said we would suffer and reportedly didnt want the job mid season.

Pre season will be the proof I guess on this one.

Which teams did will in the PL that were slow and non physical? I guess they must have been blessed by an abundance of skill or technical ability?

Even our side under ETH first season was setup to be quite compact and I'd say it didn't have the most physical make up. Martinez, Eriksen, Case, it was full of grafters like Antony, Wout, McT etc. and then a touch of class in Bruno and Rashford that season. Even someone like Palace, I think their midfield would really struggle if they played our setup, but they compact things up and protect Wharton a lot + work much harder in certain areas to press.

I think regardless of system or who the manager is, we need more pace and technical skill in this team. So even if the players come in and Amorim is fired, they shouldnt be surplus to requirements like some of Ten Hag's Dutch duds. Hopefully now there is a "footballing team" above the manager, this is considered.

Agreed, Cunha is a start. Great player and can turn on a sixpence + ghost past people.

Agree. And i think a pretty limited right back too. Not a big enough improvement on Dallot imo.

I really like Maz as RB, but him or Dalot easily good enough to be part of a top team.

I think Amorim is the more inflexible, thus far. For some reason though, i think he will try something in the final and it will involve benching Hojlund. He will get pelters if Hojlund is as useless on Wednesday as he was v Chelsea. Perhaps Amorim didnt want to show his cards v Chelsea so he left Hojlund on. Maybe wishful thinking.

fingers crossed we have some trick to put on them. I guess everyone seems to either think they'll hammer us or we'll win by a tight margin, it would be lovely if the stars aligned and we just put them to the sword. Mostly because I want to see this team rewarded for a very difficult season in my opinion but also because I want to see Ange's reaction and subsequent meltdown.

 

[roseguy64]

What message does it send to the players if a manager that's not won a game of football in the PL for around 2 months at the seasons end, is kept on after then losing the Europa final. How do you go into another season with any confidence at all under him. Really don't see a recovery point after that.

It'll be similar to the ETH situation where Varane was saying a lot of the squad was surprised he was still kept in charge in the summer.

 

[Shane88]

With what money, you dope?

 

[roseguy64]

Kinda funny how many people here think a sacking is even a semi realistic outcome of Wednesday. So much discussion about a non-existent event.

They were discussing sacking ETH and we had no idea they planned to do it until the news broke before the cup final.

 

[Red in STL]

Wonder if he'll ever figure out a way to field a team with only 2 CBs during those 14 hour shifts.

No wonder his methods are failing, he's at Cartington and the players are at Carrington!

 

[stepic]

They were discussing sacking ETH and we had no idea they planned to do it until the news broke before the cup final.

The constant comparing to a manager who had 3 windows by the time he got sacked is truly something

 

[roseguy64]

You’ve typed at length and it’s appreciated - but I'm struggling to find the substance in this post. At least to a level that justifies Amorim being credited with bringing a scalpel to United relative to his predecessors.

I mean, time and again - this thread is populated with posts - often arguing in Amorim's favour - stating that the system change and conversations around it are blown out of proportions because the system/system change is not as impactful nor responsible for our current woes; as say the quality of player.

"talked about big behind the scenes changes that are ongoing" - what does that even mean? what's the substance here? Ten Hag did the same (and unlike Amorim, Ten Hag did actually preside over a reported management structural change and even ownership change) - and I'd hazard a guess so did the ones before him

"acceptance that the team will have to 'suffer" for long-term improvements" - again what does this mean in relation to being someone making impactful change? It's a statement that manages expectations, I get - but beyond that - what? You don't have to be this bad to be good again, and being this bad isn't a guarantee that you'll be good again. The stubbornness and lack of flexibility/adaptability - that some could argue is a deficiency in tactical nous - is being presented and positioned as a plus, and I could understand that if we weren't 7/8 months with not upward tick

Getting rid of problematic influences is standard managerial stuff - and again, players being isolated, banished and shipped out is something United - both club and fans - have empowered and supported managers to do regardless of player status and/or pay bracket. Again, this isn't an Amorim phenomenon - easily verifiable too

It seems as though you're acknowledging in your post that you're stretching plausibility to credit Amorim with Cunha's deal potentially being done early. So I won't even argue this point because - really? Come on. This also applies to the last two sentences - the squad needs a overhaul - almost every manager wants one - recruitment strategy isn't an Amorim thing - in fact, his role is "Head Coach" in contrast to "First Team Manager"

It's OK to want Amorim to stay because he's likeable/charismatic, because you liked glimpses of what you've seen - even if sparingly - or even because "feck it, I just have a feeling" - but when we start crediting the fellow with bringing a scalpel to United and the only thing that we can say is he changed the system; albeit to one that hasn't succeeded for us yet and that people often argue is not that important, player quality supplants it (to support him, mind) - things start getting a bit shaky. But alas,

Excellent post. Can't believe some of what I've been seeing.

 

[Escobar]

Why a CB? The one position we are stacked is CB. De Light, Martinez, Yoro, Heaven, Maguire, Mazraoui, even potentially Shaw. That's 7 players for 2-3 positions

 

[roseguy64]

The constant comparing to a manager who had 3 windows by the time he got sacked is truly something

What the hell are you talking about? I'm simply pointing out that just because there's no noise doesn't mean that the club isn't planning to sack someone.

FFS, get off the Amorim defence and actually see what was being said for it's value not just jump to defending him.

 

[hellhunter]

Why a CB? The one position we are stacked is CB. De Light, Martinez, Yoro, Heaven, Maguire, Mazraoui, even potentially Shaw. That's 7 players for 2-3 positions

You wish

 

[roseguy64]

We heard the same with ETH, tough stance on Sancho, tough on older players like Ronaldo.

It means less than nothing until it turns into results.

Yep all it is it satisfying fans who think one player is responsible for all the ills they perceived. Convenient scapegoats.

 

[roseguy64]

The problem with Ten Hag was it was double standards.... when Rashford was messing around, he wouldn't get punished like the rest because he was scoring goals.

Ten Hag was also double standards with Amad... kept saying you have to do well in training to play, then said Amad is doing very well and they have to perform.

Yeah ETH never punished Rashford at all. You're right.

 

[Escobar]

You wish

So you want to spend on more CBs?

 

[roseguy64]

I think the people with their heads in the sand are those who think Amorim doesn’t share a large portion of responsibility for the current results. He himself has come out and acknowledged this. He himself has said someone else might have to take the job on. Does he have his head buried in the sand too then?

Six wins from twenty five is absolutely disgraceful and the fault is with Amorim AND the players. But we’re not selling 25 players this summer… so I’m afraid Amorim is likely the one to be ditched.

I’d take it to the grave with me that this team should not be in the bottom five of the PL with four league wins this year regardless of what goalpost shifting bollocks people wanna come up with in regards to the quality of the squad.

And the biggest issue with this squad in terms of dealing with the PL is not technical ability it’s their athleticism and mentality. Liverpool, Villa, Forest and Newcastle are in the top seven and there’s hardly a gulf of technical ability through their squad. It’s obvious from the league this year that there’s a massive shift towards the physical element and being successful.

Absolutely.

 

[hellhunter]

So you want to spend on more CBs?

Bolded was probably hard to see, but I made a joke about the 2-3 positions for CBs