We won’t get anywhere near 20m out of Alvaro. United get 20% of any profit on a sale, so if he went for 40m euros, United would get (40-5)/5 =7m euros.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Yeah, for the leader part I agree with you, but the other factors, I don't really know. No party, neither Amorim nor the club would have wanted to be the guy who did anything remotely what could have let to Bruno, hero of the fans, leave. Thats a pretty big factor to me. And since he also is very productive, saying that you want to keep him, makes a lot of sense.
I mean, completely irrelevant how the whole saga would have gone outcome wise, I think it is obvious, that every participant (bar Al-Hilal) would have communicated that one is happy to stay at such a wonderful club, nobody would have come out saying that he likes him leaving, neither the player, nor the club, surely not Amorim. We are talking about press releases and the likes, I mean, what kind of snidy remarks are we expecting? ^^ I am pretty sure, it was a factor in this saga for the club, that Bruno is the only thing in the last years to really be happy about. Taking it away would have had repercussions. So I guess the club took the easy way out, leave the decision to Bruno. Who, a bit suprising for me personally, decided he'll waive the very big money to stay in a relevant league for a while longer (while getting big money as well). In a club, where the way, his decision has been communicated, would make is untouchable status even stronger. And that without us knowing knowing for sure whether he made the decision or his family for him.
Rashford lost his status when his output diminished AND the attitude became obvious. He was part of the issue way longer than just this season. And while I agree, it was good that Amorim stopped catering to him, we may as well witness a new potentially comparable cycle with another player.
We for sure share the hope in terms of style.
I guess, the player was on tour but I felt if Bruno wasn't interested at all, the whole thing could have been handled quicker and with less ambivalence.
We need to sell all those guys, I'd say 99% of people who were fine with letting Bruno go would be fine with letting those guys go as well. I am not sure, why the personal factor was brought in on a regular basis - the idea of receiving a huge amount of cash for an aging player is always a good one. In our precarious situation for me even more, for others the opposite - fair enough. We'll see what happens. I am honestly struggling to predict this window. I mean, we brought in one player for a significant amount. Another forward is in the talks another significant amount. This only deals with one area, there is still the midfield that is a bit of shambles, striker and keeper department need something, another WB would be useful, I really wonder where the rest of money is supposed to come from... If we take away all the hope and enthusiasm, the window seems to shape it quite similar like the windows before. Don't get me wrong, I really like that we've done business early. But we brought in a PL player on a hype and paid accordingly. Now there is talk about Mbeumo who I put in a very similar bucket.... For the amount of work to do, that might not have been the smartest move.
I don't know, maybe I just struggle to see the light
I'll explain. Mourinho said once that the squad determines the tactics, not the other way around. Apparently Amorim would play "his" formation with a bunch of cows, whether it works or not does not matter. If you sign Klopp, Ancelotti, Guardiola, Xabi Alonso or other "top league proven" managers than you know if you spend money on new signings you'll be successful. Ancelotti used FIVE different formations last season and won the CL and spanish league because he showed his tactical versatility while poor Amorim? What did he do? Rethorical question again.
Last edited:
I hope not. Having Zirkzee as the 9 is utterly pointless, nearly as bad as playing Højlund there. I remain unconvinced Dorgu is anything but a squad player/fill-in. This side would get demolished.
Nobody is going to pay 40m for Rashford with his wages. More likely another loan with us paying 50pc.
We might be able to get rid of the younger players on lower salaries. Hojlund, Zirkzee, Malacia etc... but the established players on big wages will be a nightmare...Rashford, Shaw, Onana, Sancho. I can see all of them being loaned out to the end of their contracts or leaving for minimal fees.
Garnacho and Mainoo are basically the only sellable assets, and I dont want to sell Mainoo.
Maybe someone will bite for Antony since his loan was successful. Its probably a good idea to ship Rashford off to La Liga or Serie A so he can tear it up like McTominay and Anthony in hope of finding a buyer next year.
Last edited:
Agreed.
You don't sell your best player.
Just imagine if he had not been playing for us this season, we'd have been closer to the relegation zone.
The aim should be to keep your best players.
Garnacho would be the main one to make a bulk of the money.
I hope this manager steps up next season, massively as well because I think the club will deliver on an adequate summer for recruitment but it's only part way when the coach has to make the rest of the progress for this team.
Mbuemo potentially coming in is a massive contribution because of how it reshuffles the the ratio of attacking players in the squad. If it puts Amad at wingback and Bruno central midfield, the dreadful insistence of playing 6-7 defensive orientated players across the defence / midfield is lost.
So on account of the balance of play there's a minimum of 5 attacking influences between Bruno, Amad, Cunha, Mbuemo (potentially) and the striker. If another wingback is signed who's more assured going forward compared to Dorgu then that number increases to 6 which is 60% of the outfield players.
It doesn't solve every discrepancy I've seen in the performances that will very likely remain next season, but it does force the manager to be less apprehensive defensively, considering that the team was still leaking goals left, right and center even when playing 5 across the backline.
Mbuemo potentially coming in is a massive contribution because of how it reshuffles the the ratio of attacking players in the squad. If it puts Amad at wingback and Bruno central midfield, the dreadful insistence of playing 6-7 defensive orientated players across the defence / midfield is lost.
So on account of the balance of play there's a minimum of 5 attacking influences between Bruno, Amad, Cunha, Mbuemo (potentially) and the striker. If another wingback is signed who's more assured going forward compared to Dorgu then that number increases to 6 which is 60% of the outfield players.
It doesn't solve every discrepancy I've seen in the performances that will very likely remain next season, but it does force the manager to be less apprehensive defensively, considering that the team was still leaking goals left, right and center even when playing 5 across the backline.
Okay, but your explanation doesn't make sense..
Mourinho said squad determines tactics... not formation. Erm... Im sorry but I can't actually take you seriously anymore because you have put Xabi Alonso along with the managerial greats....
We brought loads of defenders in the last two windows, looks to be attackers this window, maybe the midfield becomes priority next year when Casemiro is perhaps more likely to go and they're better placed to see where Mainoo is actually at, they'll probably want to give Ugarte another season before deciding whether they need to pull the plug or not as he's been a bit up and down.
Sorry if i think Xabi Alonso is a great manager after he won the Bundesliga unbeaten. None of the other managers could do that in the history of Bundesliga, and remember, Ancelotti, Guardiola and other greats also worked there. On top of that they trained Bayern Munich, while Alonso achieved it with Leverkusen.
Regardless, these managers have shown that they are able to compete in multiple competitions and win trophies at multiple clubs.
Putting Alonso in the same bracket as the worlds best after 1 spectacular season, is a bit premature.
The idea that a manager just needs better attackers and all of those losses will turn into wins is also wishful thinking. If it were that simple Ole would have succeeded. Really hope the club knows what it's doing keeping him on.
It may be that we have a plan for the summer (and beyond) already, players identified, budget agreed, priorities set. So we already planned on not selling him.
I mean, it's good that we don't have to sell him if we don't need to, right?
I am quite sure there is a right time to sell Bruno and it's probably not this window.
We need to be adding quality not removing it.
Also, this team needs its senior players if we are doing a rebuild.
If you can't see the difference in between where we are trying to improve now and Ole trying to do better than 3rd/2nd I don't know what to tell you.
Completely different situations that you're trying to compare.
Yeah, not all of them would've been wins. But quite a few of them would've ended up in wins, guaranteed.
Would be just like us to finally get our recruitment halfway sorted for a manager who isn’t up to the task. If things don’t click next season I imagine many here will blame the recruitment again. Any excuse to avoid blaming the manager.
I would agree. With EtH we were overrun and clinging on for dead life. With Amorim, we mostly didnt get overrun, just paying for not converting chances to goals, which usually came back to bite us.
I think if we had the best striker in the world, many of the losses/draws would've been wins for us.
So buying a top class striker will solve some issues.
The bigger issue of competing for the league title won't be solved by buying a top class striker. For that we need to improve our defence and midfield and tactics and the culture in the dressing room.
So buying a top class striker will solve some issues.
The bigger issue of competing for the league title won't be solved by buying a top class striker. For that we need to improve our defence and midfield and tactics and the culture in the dressing room.
Malacia hardly played at PSV, nobody will pay 10m for him.
Ultimately the main need is goals. Whether we get that from a new 9 or a combination of a new 9 and 10s, we need another 30-40 goals next year so 2-3 new attackers plus retaining Bruno makes a lot of sense. In an ideal world, we could rehabilitate players like Rashford and Garnacho, but that bridge appears to have already been blown up.
This guys got some pulling power. Players want to join his project and are a fan of his system. Let him cook next season
Completely agree with the culture needing to change, but do you think a striker, along with capable attackers/goalscorers (Cunha/Mbeumo)..will improve us massively?
If we can score goals a little bit of pressure will be off our defence and GK.
If Mbeumo deal goes through on top of Cunha then Bruno will have been replaced. At least in this weird set-up.
Amorim badly wanting to keep Bruno is because he is his jail out card, not because Bruno is the right profile for his system, playing one of the two deep midfielders.
Even if you go back to 4-2-3-1 you kill Brunos best traits playing in the two, we have known that for a long time. Either sell him and use money elsewhere or play him as close to goal as possible. Keep and play him deep is the worst of both worlds.
That said United arent ready to let Fernandes go and rebuilt without, for now anyway. Not just cause he is one of the very few/almost the only player to make a key pass or score getting some points on board. But also without his experience and aura of a man feared by the opposition, and a helping hand to Rubén in the dressing room, the team could collapse early into new season facing another long and painfull season.
Wish RA would adjust to a 3-5-2 - middle triangle with one holder infront of back 3 and two attack minded midfielders which would suit (not just) Bruno down to a tee. Seems like Amorim isnt going to move an inch from his dogmatic formation so its a moot point to discuss anyway.
After the season we've just endured, can't see that being the case aside from maybe some fruit loops on here, if he turns out a disaster next season. I'd say the club will move swiftly if results are poor in the opening few games.
If you listened to Mitten on TOTD, apparently part of the reason Delap chose Chelsea was because he wasn't sure if Amorim would be here next season due to his statements.
Another tick for Amorim if true
We barely drew any, did we? Would have loved him to get at least a few draws but he just kept on losing. My worry is that in many of the games we never even looked like getting back in them, and this wasn't against great opposition either.
Agreed, small margins really. What surprises me that people don't see that difference, we were so hopeleses with Rashford, Antony, Sancho etc. under ETH. There were games after games where we had fecking ZERO chances long periods of games, only some random stuff coming after individual quality got us some results. But the difference cannot be any different under Amorim, we looked to consistently create chances even with players who doesnt suit the system. Capable in big games, with almost equal possession against Pool, Arsenal, City. Striker away to finish 8th and up the table really and we were missing 7-8 first team players sometimes.
Now looking beyond upcoming summer. After the transfer window finishes, it will be a huge difference. We will start dominating games which were coin toss under the bald fraud.
We are already very visibly adding goals by CUnha and Mbeumo, there will be more. It's just a shame that we don't have more money, so we could make the transition quicker. So expectedly there will be bad games and periods like against Bilbao or Lyon, when we were mostly great but with some dull parts and then switch two gears up and score three goals in succession after world class combinations. I am expecting us to play similarly next year.
After the next season we will be back in the EU cups (with a bit of luck Champions league) while playing great watchable football again. Then add 3-4 more players like Fast progressive CB, another WC midfielder, better Goalie (I am expecting us to get a stop gap this summer) and another high quality LWB. Then we will be flying. It might sound like a bold prediction but things can change very quickly.
I don’t mean disaster like last season. I’m thinking of a scenario where the new boys have us scoring more goals but we’re still midtable. Then the narrative will be that the players could’ve done better and we need to strengthen the midfield or defense. In short I think it will have to be another disaster for Amorim to get sacked. Which is mad considering last season.
Makes everything seem better when players want to actually play for a manager
Unless we have a miraculous start, that's the realistic expectation. And that's okay. People expecting top-4 or top-6 next season are a bit too optimistic imo.
If we can’t get a decent fee for Rashford I’d like to see us try to reintegrate him. He’s not burned bridges in the way that Sancho did though he clearly got on Amorim’s nerves.
Unless we sign a Gyokeres or another top strikers I’d put Rashford through the middle ahead of Cunha and Mbeumo. He’s by a distance a bigger goal threat than Hojlund, Garnacho & Zirkzee.
This just proves my point. A month ago I might’ve agreed. But now that we have managed to keep Bruno and are poised to spunk £120mish on Cunha and Mbeumo it’s a whole different prospect. I imagine there will be one or two more coming in after some outgoings as well.
Anything less than competing for European places would be a failure. But if we’re midtable it will be that the players need time to bed in or we need to strengthen other areas or literally any excuse to not blame Amorim.
We have to expect, realistically expect that is, top-4 or top-6 next season. The squad is being strengthened as we speak, or so it seems at least, and we are on track to rid of the toxic players who have infected the squad to the point of total dysfunction on the pitch.
You havent known after 5 or so years that Bruno isnt the best suited playing disciplined, deep midfielder? oh, you knew. *post history check*How the feck would you know that
e: You have been critical of all things United and Amorim. Its actually hillarious that a topic you called out people for... you now make fun of me to go the opposite way.
Its a serious trolling, I give you that.
Last edited:
I have no idea what Amorim thinks man or what he wants from this system in the premier league, but he certainly appears to like him there.
You’re the one playing mind reader here pal.
Top 6 hasn’t ever meant more than 66 points, and is often a fair few less.
It always still means losing between 10-13 games. (Around a third).
Of course that’s what we should expect from any competent manager.
Not challenging for the Top 4 is ok, but apart from that, standards/expectations have to return next season. Even more so with the reduced schedule.
If/when INEOS add Cunha and Mbeumo to the attack the manager can’t be scrapping around the lower half of the table.
Certain players might not be perfect but 15th can never happen again, even if you only change 2-3 players the demand needs to be around 6th place most of the campaign.
If/when INEOS add Cunha and Mbeumo to the attack the manager can’t be scrapping around the lower half of the table.
Certain players might not be perfect but 15th can never happen again, even if you only change 2-3 players the demand needs to be around 6th place most of the campaign.