Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

He took over a midtable team that went on to sell/loan it's starting/rotation level attackers. We cannot be in win-now mode while sorting our finances. Nothing short of relegation would be a fair criteria for the sack till next season.
 
roseguy64 said:
So improved possession and patterns of play is the only way managers get teams to play the way they want?
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Well we had none of that under ETH so like I said it’s improvement. Take of your tinted glasses
 
Greck said:
He took over a midtable team that went on to sell/loan it's starting/rotation level attackers. We cannot be in win-now mode while sorting our finances. Nothing short of relegation would be a fair criteria for the sack till next season.
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Oh, no. The dastardly club management that forced Amorim to let go of Antony and Rashford. If he keeps us up this year with his hands tied behind his back this way, I'd say we build him a statue.
 
erikcred said:
Oh, no. The dastardly club management that forced Amorim to let go of Antony and Rashford. If he keeps us up this year with his hands tied behind his back this way, I'd say we build him a statue.
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How many strawmen were you trying to fit in one sentence? Our financial situation is a bigger factor to players leaving than Amorim's input. He absolutely will not be the only decider in player sales as we try to balance our books in the coming years. He, SJR, INEOS and the club as a whole are absolutely being forced by financial circumstances. Someone is getting sold with or without Amorim and it makes it impossible to give a clear picture of their performance.
 
Greck said:
How many strawmen were you trying to fit in one sentence? Our financial situation is a bigger factor to players leaving than Amorim's input. He absolutely will not be the only decider in player sales as we try to balance our books in the coming years. He, SJR, INEOS and the club as a whole are absolutely being forced by financial circumstances. Someone is getting sold with or without Amorim and it makes it impossible to give a clear picture of their performance.
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I literally agreed with you that Amorim wanted to keep Antony and Rashford, but financial circumstances forced their moves.
 
DJ_21 said:
Well we had none of that under ETH so like I said it’s improvement. Take of your tinted glasses
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It‘s an improvement we don‘t have what we didn‘t have before?

What improvement do you see? We are not passing better than before Amorim.

We are good in spells under Amorim and were good in spells under Ten Hag.

If we keep muddling along like this, good coach or not, Amorim should go.
 
NLunited said:
It‘s an improvement we don‘t have what we didn‘t have before?

What improvement do you see? We are not passing better than before Amorim.

We are good in spells under Amorim and were good in spells under Ten Hag.

If we keep muddling along like this, good coach or not, Amorim should go.
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What 30 goal a season coach can we get in to replace him?
 
mctrials23 said:
I get the impression that they are not saying that he dictates signings but that he will have a say in the sort of player he wants. i.e players that are technically, physically and mentally strong. I'm sure he will be telling them what positions are key and the sort of player he needs.

Our issue at United is as much about overpaying for average players as it is about having such a mish mash of types. We've been buying average athletes with average technical capabilities for years. You can see that Liverpool have been buying players of different profiles for years. The general core of their recruitment however says that any player that comes in has to be physically very capable and technically very capable. They don't have to be world beaters but they have to have the right mentality and the basics. You can see that arguably two of their most questionable signings for serious money that haven't been big hits don't have that technical quality. Gakpo and Nunez. Even then they have the other qualities and offer something different to the rest of the team.

We have too many slow, ponderous, indecisive and technically deficient players who don't have the right intensity for the league. Replace those players with the right kind and the manager won't matter quite so much.
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Totally agree with this. I remember seeing an interview with Fabregas recently who bemoaned to some extent the evolution of modern football, as now the priority order when building a team and recruitment is physicality first, then technical, lastly tactical. Our recruitment has been so poor the past 10 years we have failed to keep pace with the data driven evolution of the PL whereby the best teams all have players that are superb physical specimens able to cope with modern high intensity pressing. Bournemouth are a great example of this intense physicality, and because we lack this vital aspect we are almost like a newly promoted team forced into a low block/counter attack just to survive. That said, we do have some quality players and I'm really excited by what I've seen of some youngsters coming through. I think we'll need at least three windows before we can play consistently higher up the pitch with more confidence about being able to cope when we lose the ball high and need to funnel back fast.
 
Nestor Mahkno said:
...whereby the best teams all have players that are superb physical specimens able to cope with modern high intensity pressing.
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If you look at pretty much every top team now its technically competent players coupled with very high effort levels. Bayern, PSG, Liverpool, RM, Barca. You simply can't compete at the top level if all you have are technically competent players. You also can't do it if you just have physical players. Certain leagues are certainly slower but the top teams are able to really up the pace when required.
 
NLunited said:
It‘s an improvement we don‘t have what we didn‘t have before?

What improvement do you see? We are not passing better than before Amorim.

We are good in spells under Amorim and were good in spells under Ten Hag.

If we keep muddling along like this, good coach or not, Amorim should go.
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You clearly didn’t see Ratcliffes interview. He rates Amorim and he won’t be going anywhere soon. In fact he thinks he’s currently doing a good job with the squad he has available. I get what you’re saying though but it’s hard to coach players into passing. That needs to be an attribute that the player as so that’s what we need in the transfer market. Players with very good passing amongst other things.
 
I just cannot take anyone seriously who thinks you sack a manager who was brought in to implement a long term vision.... after 4 months. Even moreso a manager who, at his previous club, did his best work during his first summer, clearing out 25 players, finding replacments on a tight budget, plus youth players, and won the league that season.

Furthermore, the owner has just done an interview in which he has unequivocally stated the manager isn't being blamed for the current league position and that they are extremely happy with what he has done so far. They will see what he's doing behind the scenes, how he conducts himself, how he deals with players and other staff and also will know what his long term vision for the team is - i.e. beyond finishing up the remainder of this season. Back when there was a lot of 'Fergie out' talk, if you read Bobby Charlton's biography he claims the board back then had zero interest in sacking him because they could see what he had done behind the scenes to fix the sturcture, scouting and youth set ups at united. Before anyone starts, I use that as an example of behind the scenes reasons that fans have no knowledge of, and not because I am saying Amorim is the new Ferguson.
 
NLunited said:
It‘s an improvement we don‘t have what we didn‘t have before?

What improvement do you see? We are not passing better than before Amorim.

We are good in spells under Amorim and were good in spells under Ten Hag.

If we keep muddling along like this, good coach or not, Amorim should go.
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You're completely and comprehensively missing the point, because you are comparing the football after 27 months of Ten Hag, including 5 transfer windows and 3 preseasons, with the football after 5 months of Amorim, coming in midseason and having had only a winter window that is dominated by cost saving measures following the money spent for, well, Ten Hag.
It's disappointing that Amorim hasn't been able to improve us much yet (some things have improved, some haven't, some, like set piece defending, have arguably gotten worse) but Ten Hag was sacked because he couldn't improve us after getting loads of time.

Now, personally I think Ten Hag should have been sacked earlier, i.e. at the very latest at the end of that horrible second season or probably already in winter, which meant he would have been allowed 12-18 months of poor football (considering he did quite well for parts of the first season) at the end of which, in the absence of improvement, the manager would be sacked.
Accordingly, I will want to see meaningful improvement from Amorim over the next 6-12 months.
 
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erikcred said:
What about an 'I can see patterns of play' discussion?
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If you made a thread called that, it would be bombed by posters who claimed you were hallucinating because they could see no patterns of play. Regardless of wether it was under Amorim, Ten Hag, Solskjær or any other.

The exception being Ferguson, where people were claiming for ten years at least to see patterns of play ten years after they had been obsolete.
 
mctrials23 said:
If you look at pretty much every top team now its technically competent players coupled with very high effort levels. Bayern, PSG, Liverpool, RM, Barca. You simply can't compete at the top level if all you have are technically competent players. You also can't do it if you just have physical players. Certain leagues are certainly slower but the top teams are able to really up the pace when required.
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In a way it's a sad indictment of the modern game, no more room at the top for the slower mavericks or those that lacked a real team ethic but would do something spectacular every now and then. I think I read someplace that another by product of this evolution into mobile human chess is the lack of mad volleys or screamers outside the box, it's all neat interplay and get it in the box with accurate low crosses for easy finishes. That being said, I love the mad energy and subtle tactics with the decisions about when to press high, when to conserve energy, just hope we can get the confidence levels up to see some of this in the future.
 
Raoul said:
Didn’t he just have one of his better performances this year? One would imagine he still has an extra gear he can call up, even at 33.
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Not just physically but we also need leaders on the pitch and he has more than enough experience in that regard if he can pull his finger out.
 
I'm not sure i buy the idea that Casemiro hasn't been trying or has become too comfortable. I think it's more a case of when the team is in a low block, he can be an exceptional destroyer still (think it was 9 successful tackles on Sunday?). Same with Maguire and De Ligt in some ways, it's just when there's more space to cover that's when you see the problems of certain players.

Tomorrow is a massive game. I really hope he can get two positive results from tomorrow and Sunday- it could mean we actually have the rest of the season to look forward to and can build some momentum.
 
Irwin99 said:
I'm not sure i buy the idea that Casemiro hasn't been trying or has become too comfortable. I think it's more a case of when the team is in a low block, he can be an exceptional destroyer still (think it was 9 successful tackles on Sunday?). Same with Maguire and De Ligt in some ways, it's just when there's more space to cover that's when you see the problems of certain players.

Tomorrow is a massive game. I really hope he can get two positive results from tomorrow and Sunday- it could mean we actually have the rest of the season to look forward to and can build some momentum.
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Performances wise, nobody has covered themselves in glory this season under Amorim apart from a select few so anybody being mentioned is not a surprise. However, the name checking of Casemiro in pressers with subtle phrasing like 'he's a player that's won it all, he knows it ain't good enough' or 'even Casemiro has to sit on the bench' is obviously a ploy to either motivate him to step up and/or to leave i.e 'you have to try even harder at your age and with your experience because you start at ground zero like everyone else'. Next season will be even tougher for him to play/start, so Amorim is trying to make him realise why wouldn't he take the same pay check elsewhere and play on his own terms?

Of course if he wants to stay, no one can change that.
 
Glad to see him being backed by the owners in there recent statements. Berradas plans seem exciting for the future. Sign us versatile players that fit into Ruben’s system and then watch us playing attacking football.
 
stevoc said:
They are slightly concerning remarks to be fair. You could argue that they've decided to go down this path going forward with Amorim currently and then continue with it post Amorim. But that didn't seem to be the plan last summer so it does make one suspect that we are indeed still gollowing the Glazers/Woodward model of putting all our eggs in one basket, hiring a new manager with a different style and then allowing them to rip the squad up.
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You could also see it as the club had interviewed several coaches and they had pitched ideas. We know this happened in the Summer. Amorim pitched his and the club picked the style by picking the coach. Just to be devil's advocate in all this nonsense.
 
Stinkypete said:
You could also see it as the club had interviewed several coaches and they had pitched ideas. We know this happened in the Summer. Amorim pitched his and the club picked the style by picking the coach. Just to be devil's advocate in all this nonsense.
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We didn't interview Amorim last summer though did we?
 
I think the worst posters about Amorim are die hard Ten Hag fans, from what I read on here.

Hes been here 4 months with no striker that can score. He had no pre season and was bought a young LWB and a rookie CH, who has surprisingly stepped up to the plate so far. He has moved on and also clamped down on some of the bad attitude/crap players and has a novice bench to pick from most games.

Lets give him at least until xmas before we condemn him, eh?
 
DJ_21 said:
Well we had none of that under ETH so like I said it’s improvement. Take of your tinted glasses
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I think you missed my point. All our managers have gotten us to play how they wanted us to. Most of the time anyway.
 
Watching PSG yesterday, I loved how often they’d go forward with the ball rather than being so safe, like we are. I bet we pass the ball backwards more than any other team! Kills me!
 
roseguy64 said:
I think you missed my point. All our managers have gotten us to play how they wanted us to. Most of the time anyway.
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Apart from ETH who no one could see what he wanted us to do. The others had some kind of style of play but not one that we wanted to play or shouldn’t be playing as a big club.
 
criticalanalysis said:
Performances wise, nobody has covered themselves in glory this season under Amorim apart from a select few so anybody being mentioned is not a surprise. However, the name checking of Casemiro in pressers with subtle phrasing like 'he's a player that's won it all, he knows it ain't good enough' or 'even Casemiro has to sit on the bench' is obviously a ploy to either motivate him to step up and/or to leave i.e 'you have to try even harder at your age and with your experience because you start at ground zero like everyone else'. Next season will be even tougher for him to play/start, so Amorim is trying to make him realise why wouldn't he take the same pay check elsewhere and play on his own terms?

Of course if he wants to stay, no one can change that.
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Amorim realizes like most United fans that getting Casemiro off the books would be huge for his summer window and he's been trying to get him to leave in little ways since he's got the job. Don't think he'll be successful but cant blame him for trying. Tonight is our biggest game of the season though and if Casemiro is part of the best 11 he can put out so be it.
 
VictoriaRed said:
Watching PSG yesterday, I loved how often they’d go forward with the ball rather than being so safe, like we are. I bet we pass the ball backwards more than any other team! Kills me!
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Look at their first team and especially the technical ability
 
VictoriaRed said:
Watching PSG yesterday, I loved how often they’d go forward with the ball rather than being so safe, like we are. I bet we pass the ball backwards more than any other team! Kills me!
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Their buildup was a bit weird though. You can tell it was not really a quality system but strong physicality and very technical players. Vitinha and Mendes among others were instrumental.
 
Escobar said:
Look at their first team and especially the technical ability
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Agree. Its not like the players are being instructed to back-pass all the time. Kind of hard to play progressive forward passes when you know the passer can't make that pass/the receiver can't control it.
 
mctrials23 said:
If you look at pretty much every top team now its technically competent players coupled with very high effort levels. Bayern, PSG, Liverpool, RM, Barca. You simply can't compete at the top level if all you have are technically competent players. You also can't do it if you just have physical players. Certain leagues are certainly slower but the top teams are able to really up the pace when required.
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I think that mix of technical and physical has always been needed. The top team have always had it.

Football really isn't complicated in that sense. The ingredients of a good team have been the same for decades.
 
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