Forest and United are both outliers. Wood and Höjlund are having freakish seasons. If we can get a striker who scores 18 goals next season then we can reach top 6 with some luck. Play Höjlund and it is 10-14th.Its all about getting the players to play as a team, which we haven't done with any consistency. Forest are currently third with a group of players a vast majority of casual fans have probably never heard of. None of them are considered better than Amad and Garnacho. More broadly, the likes of Elanga, Martinelli, Trossard, Sancho, Nkuku, and Madueke aren't exactly world beaters, its just that their teams are well coached and they have enough reliable goal scorers to win games.
Which makes the last 3 months more impressive.We did lose 4 in a row before that though.
We played easy to win easy games. Thats changed2 wins against 2 of the statistically worst teams the PL has ever seen helps that you do have to beat them all though, we'll see this next run of games after the international break whether anything has truly improved in my opinion, I remain sceptical about the nature of the formation but the last games has seen goals and attacking hopefully gives the team confidence
Forest and United are both outliers. Wood and Höjlund are having freakish seasons. If we can get a striker who scores 18 goals next season then we can reach top 6 with some luck. Play Höjlund and it is 10-14th.
Forest have 2 great CBs, Gibbs White, Andersson and so on. Very underrated players.
A proper striker will massively transform our chances of success, absolutely, but we also need another top creative player behind the striker. If Mount could be available that would help a lot too but we can't really expect that can we.If we get a proper striker it could actually propel us into league contention next year. By proper I mean Osimhen or Gyokeres. Bottom line, we need a striker who can bag about 25 or more goals next season as that would take a lot of pressure off the other attackers to carry the water for our misfiring #9.
Don’t think we can rely on Mount for that even if fit. I do think we need another potentially elite creator even if they aren’t there yet. We say it about most positions but we are always one Bruno injury away from basically having zero chance creation.A proper striker will massively transform our chances of success, absolutely, but we also need another top creative player behind the striker. If Mount could be available that would help a lot too but we can't really expect that can we.
But we were playing an 18 year old CB before Heaven started getting games.
I think he's done really well at blending the youth in.
Yoro? That doesn't count as he is a 50m signing who happens to be young.
He needs to make a big decision when Amad comes back. Play him right AM or RWB. Garnacho is improving on the right side further forward though. That side will be exciting if Amad moves back to RWB with Garnacho further forward. The left sides also improving with Dorgu and Zirkzee.
Should play Yoro RCB or MazI think this is his long term goal, having an attacking option at RWB. The issue is at the moment, the team isn't there yet for him to be able to do that.
For him to implement that full time, the 10's need to know their job and have to be very good athletes. Then our CM's need to be very good athletes too as they need to cover.
Its not as simple as just play Amad RWB because then you need a mobile fast RCB, not De Ligt or Maguire.
In his final form, Amad will probably be a RWB.
We need to correct the midfield with a progressive passer and a player who can keep things ticking over.A proper striker will massively transform our chances of success, absolutely, but we also need another top creative player behind the striker. If Mount could be available that would help a lot too but we can't really expect that can we.
Which 2 for? Ugarte is the defensive type of midfielder we’re using. If we sign another CM then will Bruno be put into one of the AMs? I don’t see Bruno as a AM in this system as you need to be technical and able to drift out wide if needed. I really like that goncalves from sporting.We need to correct the midfield with a progressive passer and a player who can keep things ticking over.
Which 2 for? Ugarte is the defensive type of midfielder we’re using. If we sign another CM then will Bruno be put into one of the AMs? I don’t see Bruno as a AM in this system as you need to be technical and able to drift out wide if needed. I really like that goncalves from sporting.
I think Ugarte isn't the guy when playing weaker teams, he's not good enough on the ball. I think what Casemiro has shown in the last few games has highlighted how much we're missing progressive passing from the middle.Which 2 for? Ugarte is the defensive type of midfielder we’re using. If we sign another CM then will Bruno be put into one of the AMs? I don’t see Bruno as a AM in this system as you need to be technical and able to drift out wide if needed. I really like that goncalves from sporting.
Yeah Yoro. He's still 18 years old whatever his fee.
Which other big clubs are signing and playing 18 year olds at CB. Never mind two of them.
You bring up an interesting point.I think Ugarte isn't the guy when playing weaker teams, he's not good enough on the ball. I think what Casemiro has shown in the last few games has highlighted how much we're missing progressive passing from the middle.
I still think we are way too chaotic in possession.
We're not going to become better in possession without better players on the ball.You bring up an interesting point.
Ugarte isn‘t the guy to put people through one on one, but he can link up the play well. Progressive passing can also come from cb’s stepping up (Martinez excels at this).
As for weaker teams? There aren‘t any, Ugarte‘s defensive work is always needed unless we are playing Barnley.
Chaos: a bit of chaos is ok. I envisage more controlled performances in general, but we can unleash the chaos when the game or opponent call for it. It is not one thing or the other.
For that kind of control and decision making to materialize, the players need to be better drilled. As long as they are misplacing passes over 6 yards because they aren‘t doing the basics right, we will not see control.
If we can keep the ball and evade the press easily, we will have control and can prevent the other team from getting a foothold. It won‘t happen unless we tidy up our passing and decision making.
Our next 4 fixtures areWe sound very RAWKish: beating a woeful Sociedad and then soon to be relegated Leicester, and people are saying the revolution is here. I think we would have been hard pressed to lose either of those, such were the state of our opposition.
We will be brought back down to earth soon enough.
Because we have been lacking Left footed Center Backs or those Center Backs who just feel comfortable being on the left, he is used there mostly, but he is a really good passer and can step into midfield, so he should be used more in the Center role within the back 3. So more agile and faster Center backs can play out wide, like Yoro and Heaven?We're not going to become better in possession without better players on the ball.
Martinez is also a weak link who I'd like to see slowly phased out and allowed to leave. He's simply a liability defending wide areas.
It cannot just be defenders progressing the ball, your midfielders also need to be able to pick up the ball and play line breaking passes.
Ugarte is a runner, but you'll never play vertical, liquid football with him in the team. He's great when we're playing a team who we will struggle to control the game against, but there's no use for him if we're playing someone like Southampton.
Not every player needs to be De Bruijne good in passing progressively, so I disagree. Ugarte has high ball retention.We're not going to become better in possession without better players on the ball.
Martinez is also a weak link who I'd like to see slowly phased out and allowed to leave. He's simply a liability defending wide areas.
It cannot just be defenders progressing the ball, your midfielders also need to be able to pick up the ball and play line breaking passes.
Ugarte is a runner, but you'll never play vertical, liquid football with him in the team. He's great when we're playing a team who we will struggle to control the game against, but there's no use for him if we're playing someone like Southampton.
But we don't have a midfielder who can pass progressively. Ball retention doesn't mean anything if its just side to side.Not every player needs to be De Bruijne good in passing progressively, so I disagree. Ugarte has high ball retention.
These types of players are underrated, like Marten De Roon at Atalanta.
But we don't have a midfielder who can pass progressively. Ball retention doesn't mean anything if its just side to side.
Casemiro is part of the reason we’re chaotic in possession. Yes he does great passes throughout the game but he also miss places or gives away possession a lot with his first time passes.I think Ugarte isn't the guy when playing weaker teams, he's not good enough on the ball. I think what Casemiro has shown in the last few games has highlighted how much we're missing progressive passing from the middle.
I still think we are way too chaotic in possession.
Earlier this season with ETH surely? That barnsley 7-0 game and the soton gameLast time Man United won consecutive games by a three goal margin?
Casemiro is part of the reason we’re chaotic in possession. Yes he does great passes throughout the game but he also miss places or gives away possession a lot with his first time passes.
Likewise. Below wasn’t to anyone in particular, although there have been some post I’ve replied that people questioning what I saw in Amorim. Similar to your post below.I completely agree with you. I posted this response to Cathy Ferguson on February 13th:
"Patterns of play. Positioning. Moving without having to think first. Pressing as units. CBs stepping into voids. etc etc. A lot of what RA wants us to do is slowly starting to happen. The problem is two-fold, in my opinion. First, our players are lacking in decision making, physicality, and playing at fast tempo. Second, our players lack the tenacity and determination required to recycle possession regularly in the current era of premier league football."
In 2 months I’ve seen more progress under Amorim than I did under 7 months of Moyes, 2 seasons of LVG, 2 of Jose, 3 of Ole, and 2 of ETH.
I’m genuinely looking forward to that this guy will do with a preseason (hopefully) £150m plus whatever we get from sales.
Ye exactly. I’m with you. That’s what I meant by he’s part of the reason we give up possession.We need to stop the Casemiro revisionism everytime he has a okay to good game.
There is no way we can play games with Casemiro and Bruno in midfield, they both commit too early.
Casemiro should be used how he is, a backup option to Ugarte.
We had international breaks coming at “perfect” time so many times before.Our next 4 fixtures are
Forest away
City home
Lyon away
Wolves home
I think the international break came at a bad time
We had international breaks coming at “perfect” time so many times before.
So we need an upgrade on him then, him being inconsistent doesn't change the fact that we need someone whose willing to pass forward and break lines. @romufc calling it revisionism is missing the point, we need a midfielder to progress play.Casemiro is part of the reason we’re chaotic in possession. Yes he does great passes throughout the game but he also miss places or gives away possession a lot with his first time passes.
That's a really poor comparison. One is an inside forward who was meant to be one of Europe's most productive players, one plays in midfield and whilst he is a match winner in his day, can cause major issues with us trying to keep the ball.Its interesting that the people who moan about Bruno's ball retention will also be moaning about Sancho's lack of threat.... You can't criticise both... its either you want a player to play backwards sideways and have 90% ball retention or you actually understand that playing forward = risk means ball retention will be 80% but the team will create chances.
Bookmark this thread and check back after we lose 3 in a row and draw with Wolves.Our next 4 fixtures are
Forest away
City home
Lyon away
Wolves home
I think the international break came at a bad time
Every time I see you post these days it's very negative. About all subjects.Bookmark this thread and check back after we lose 3 in a row and draw with Wolves.
Point taken.Every time I see you post these days it's very negative. About all subjects.
A point you say!Bookmark this thread and check back after we lose 3 in a row and draw with Wolves.
So we need an upgrade on him then, him being inconsistent doesn't change the fact that we need someone whose willing to pass forward and break lines. @romufc calling it revisionism is missing the point, we need a midfielder to progress play.
That's a really poor comparison. One is an inside forward who was meant to be one of Europe's most productive players, one plays in midfield and whilst he is a match winner in his day, can cause major issues with us trying to keep the ball.
Different positions need to offer different things in order for it to be a functioning..... team?
Bruno is not playing as an CAM in this system though, he did initially and was very quickly found out because he struggles to dribble and play on the half turn.I am not missing the point, I know what we need in our team but Bruno as Amorim has mentioned can progress play. Don’t get me wrong, I see the logic in this. Having someone like Casemiro is crucial, we saw this against Arsenal where he played those first time balls over the top, we need someone who can do that.
How is it a poor comparison, like you said one is an inside forward and one is a CAM. An Attacking midfielder who is there to create. Let me ask you, what do you expect from a central attacking midfielder? Ball retention or creative play?
Funnily enough, you have also mentioned that you want the 6 to progress play, so you must understand you cannot expect a player to progress play and have 90% ball retention…
Bruno is not playing as an CAM in this system though, he did initially and was very quickly found out because he struggles to dribble and play on the half turn.
If Manchester United want to return to the glory days and dominate teams then we need to control games in the middle of the park. That means controlling the ball, playing through the press and progressing play, whether it be from the first or second phase of play. It's a tricky scenario because as much as I criticise him we really do depend on Bruno and he's our most important player, however I still believe that our midfield needs to be revamped, and that this may not include Bruno in the medium term.
