Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

This group of players weren't crap in the previous shape simply because they are crap(Many of them are), they were crap in large part down to the mind numbingly insane tactics that Ten Hag played. A one man midfield with the other 2 midfielders pushed up almost alongside the striker, leaving midfield open to an extent I have never seen before from a professional team, and the 1 man was a player on his last legs who even at his peak would have had no chance of covering the space.

That has to be acknowledged when discussing the pointlessness of changing the formation.

Huge gamble by the club to go this way, a ton of money will have to be spent otherwise it was illogical to bring him in, and that will have to be done on faith that his system is one that can work in the PL, which is far from a guarantee.
 
Also, to compete in top 6 we don't need a full new squad.
A stable goalkeeper, much better striker than Hojlund (that's all strikers in PL really and half in Championship) and a consistently good winger to place Garnacho as impact sub (Cunha?) will make massive difference.

If we can secure top 6 with stable football next season, we can continue building on that.

Agreed. Buying the right players at striker and keeper and getting everyone fit for next year will alone make a massive difference.
 
Its alright saying buying the right players this summer will make a big difference but where is the money coming from and how are we going to attract these players when we cant offer European football for the next 2 seasons at least?

According to reports our Transfer budget this summer will be only £200m which is nowhere near enough to get all the players needed to get this in a position to play Ruben's tactics effectively.
 
Its alright saying buying the right players this summer will make a big difference but where is the money coming from and how are we going to attract these players when we cant offer European football for the next 2 seasons at least?

According to reports our Transfer budget this summer will be only £200m which is nowhere near enough to get all the players needed to get this in a position to play Ruben's tactics effectively.

The plus side of that £200m transfer limit is that it should mean we don't just spend the money on inflated fees ala Sancho, Antony, etc. Dorgu was around £25/30 million, so I wonder if we'll see more of those types of signings. Maybe big money for a striker and Dorgu-ish fees for others?

One of our best attackers this season has been Amad, and his transfer fee was in the same ball park area as Dorgu's, albeit years ago. We're playing the longer game with those type of signings, though.

The downside of that is that we have quite a few young prospects already and we need to counter balance with some more experience. But, too often at this club does that lead to over-the-hill type signings. I'm very interested to see who we get in. I just hope we get all of our business done early so that Amorim is able to make the most out of preseason.
 
Everyone could see it wasn't going to work on a consistent basis it's true. Especially sans significant January reinforcement. What's baffling though is however, why a number of fans would rather have not bothered at all, yet a number of these same players will be here next season, when neccesarry reinforcements will arrive.

As if i'ts not better to get them a 6 months crash course in the system and the manager's methods. So that the ones who prove "they can swim with the tide" and stay after the summer are not clueless when neccesary missing pieces do arrive after summer transfers are not lost, holding the project back at the start of the next campaign
Having seen enough games now under Amorim, how many players do you think will be performing better under this system by next season ?
 
I don't think he's competing with any other manager. This season was always going to be a disastrous one and any fans who thought football was going to make them happy this year, have only brought it on themselves. Therefore it doesn't matter if we finish between 6th and 17th as long as we win the EL and rebuild the squad appropriately for next year this summer and get all our players healthy and fit again.
Couldn't disagree more. 6th-8th gets us some form of European competition next year and don't you earn more the higher you finish too? Now I agree the squads bad but surely it can't be as bad as we're seeing?

In your opinion how many of win the Europa, rebuild the squad and get all the players fit again goals are achievable? I'd say win the Europa is the most achievable and even that's a long shot with what we're going to have to field on Thursday so surely that means a lot of these players are going to be back playing next year.
 
Couldn't disagree more. 6th-8th gets us some form of European competition next year and don't you earn more the higher you finish too? Now I agree the squads bad but surely it can't be as bad as we're seeing?

In your opinion how many of win the Europa, rebuild the squad and get all the players fit again goals are achievable? I'd say win the Europa is the most achievable and even that's a long shot with what we're going to have to field on Thursday so surely that means a lot of these players are going to be back playing next year.

Right now all of the above are achievable. Winning the EL will simply give us a bit more money to work with and make us a slightly more viable destination for players who might be solely fixated on playing in the CL. But all things said, once Ten Hag was sacked, I wrote the rest of the season off as little more than a glorified series of training sessions for Amorim to gradually coach the squad into his formation and tactics in preparation for a massive summer of transfer activity. Next year is where the rubber will truly meet the road imo.
 
The plus side of that £200m transfer limit is that it should mean we don't just spend the money on inflated fees ala Sancho, Antony, etc. Dorgu was around £25/30 million, so I wonder if we'll see more of those types of signings. Maybe big money for a striker and Dorgu-ish fees for others?

One of our best attackers this season has been Amad, and his transfer fee was in the same ball park area as Dorgu's, albeit years ago. We're playing the longer game with those type of signings, though.

The downside of that is that we have quite a few young prospects already and we need to counter balance with some more experience. But, too often at this club does that lead to over-the-hill type signings. I'm very interested to see who we get in. I just hope we get all of our business done early so that Amorim is able to make the most out of preseason.
Does the fee not seem inflated? I understand United tax is always going to be there but £25m for a kid from Lecce seems steep. This teams crying out for experience but unfortunately that's expensive.
 
So, once again we’ve turned on a manager. What he did at Sporting is infinitely nore
Impressive than what ETH did at Ajax.

He hasn’t just become shit overnight. It’s this virus of a club that is the problem.
 
So, once again we’ve turned on a manager. What he did at Sporting is infinitely nore
Impressive than what ETH did at Ajax.

He hasn’t just become shit overnight. It’s this virus of a club that is the problem.

The problem here imo is the circumstances - asking a manager to abruptly parachute into a new league mid-season and expecting them to somehow have a good season with a squad mired in injuries and transition was never going to happen.
 
Does the fee not seem inflated? I understand United tax is always going to be there but £25m for a kid from Lecce seems steep. This teams crying out for experience but unfortunately that's expensive.

Tbh, I'm not sure what really constitutes a good fee or good value anymore. It does seem steep, you're right. Money seems to take you less far now than it did a few years ago and fees just seem to be rising higher and higher.
 
So, once again we’ve turned on a manager. What he did at Sporting is infinitely nore
Impressive than what ETH did at Ajax.

He hasn’t just become shit overnight. It’s this virus of a club that is the problem.
Why would this matter? ETH is a past manager who has had his time here. Also, for what it’s worth, he didn’t just manage Ajax which is why he was more attractive than say a De Boer type.
 
Why would this matter? ETH is a past manager who has had his time here. Also, for what it’s worth, he didn’t just manage Ajax which is why he was more attractive than say a De Boer type.

Amorim didn't just manage Sporting...
 
Couldn't disagree more. 6th-8th gets us some form of European competition next year and don't you earn more the higher you finish too? Now I agree the squads bad but surely it can't be as bad as we're seeing?

In your opinion how many of win the Europa, rebuild the squad and get all the players fit again goals are achievable? I'd say win the Europa is the most achievable and even that's a long shot with what we're going to have to field on Thursday so surely that means a lot of these players are going to be back playing next year.

It’s a bit over £3m per place in the table, 7th earns £31m more than 17th.
I think when you look at it weekly, it’s about 600k per week. It wouldn’t surprise me if that is the entirety of the money ‘saved’ from loaning out Rashford, Antony, and Sancho, Malacia.
Now obviously it’s not like a good manager would certainly have got Utd to finish 7th (and you are unlikely to finish 17th), but at the extremes, the numbers are significant.
 
The plus side of that £200m transfer limit is that it should mean we don't just spend the money on inflated fees ala Sancho, Antony, etc. Dorgu was around £25/30 million, so I wonder if we'll see more of those types of signings. Maybe big money for a striker and Dorgu-ish fees for others?

One of our best attackers this season has been Amad, and his transfer fee was in the same ball park area as Dorgu's, albeit years ago. We're playing the longer game with those type of signings, though.

The downside of that is that we have quite a few young prospects already and we need to counter balance with some more experience. But, too often at this club does that lead to over-the-hill type signings. I'm very interested to see who we get in. I just hope we get all of our business done early so that Amorim is able to make the most out of preseason.

We'll end up spending that 200m on cheap players who are nowhere near ready to play at this level because no one better will come due to us having no European football to offer a very little chance of winning trophies and as a result we'll be no better off.
 
Since Amorim's arrival, there’s been a lot of talk around his preferred 3-4-2-1 system. Personally, I don’t have any real issue with the formation itself. Most systems evolve fluidly in-game anyway, and we’ve seen that to some extent under him. My issue lies more with the profiles being selected to execute it. A good manager isn’t just someone who has a philosophy - they’re someone who knows how to adapt that philosophy to the players at their disposal.

Now, I get it - we’re not working with a world-class squad here. Amorim doesn’t have the same tools he had at Sporting, and that inevitably makes things trickier. But if you’re trying something over and over again without consistent success, surely, you have to consider a tweak? At some point, persistence becomes stubbornness.

After Onana’s costly errors against Lyon, Amorim publicly held his hands up, saying: “If you look at the season, I've made more mistakes than them in these last games and these last months.” While that might seem like he’s protecting the players and taking responsibility, he’s actually right. He has made a number of poor decisions.

A common defence for him is: "These aren’t his players." But that’s a bit of a cop-out, for me. Managing a team isn’t just about waiting until you have your perfect XI - it’s about getting the best out of what you have. If you can’t adapt your approach to the squad in front of you, then what’s the point of being a manager?

Take the Newcastle game as an example. Plenty of people picked up on this, but it’s worth repeating: his obsession with dropping the middle centre-back into midfield - something that worked at Sporting - isn’t translating here. Against Newcastle, Lindelof was pushed into midfield, Yoro shifted to a quasi-left back role, and Mazraoui took up his usual spot on the right. This left us with a pivot of Ugarte and Lindelof, with Eriksen and Bruno dropping deep to help build.

The issue? First, we didn’t have the right profiles in those deeper areas to deal with Newcastle’s press. And second, on the few occasions we did beat the press, we lacked the numbers and cutting edge in the final third.

For me, Amorim had to see that it wasn’t working and adjust. Instead, he stuck with it for 90 minutes, further exposing the weaknesses of certain players, rather than playing to their strengths. And that, fundamentally, is a manager’s job - maximise your squad’s ability, even if it means compromising slightly on your ideal setup.

Again, I’m not against his system. I actually think we’ve looked sharper in certain recent matches, and there are glimpses of progress. But if he continues to be this rigid, he may find himself under pressure a lot sooner than anyone expected.
Amorim is known for being inflexible. During his time at Sporting CP, this trait has drawn considerable criticism.

His early months at the club mirrored his start at Manchester United. He introduced a 3-4-2-1 system — and that was it. There were no alternatives. He was fully convinced this was the best way for his team to play. By the end of that season, criticism began to grow, and many supporters were unsure whether he should remain in charge for the following year.

Then came the next season, with a renewed squad. The signings were surprisingly good, although fans initially didn’t quite understand the strategy behind them. The team still lacked a proper striker, and reports indicated that Amorim specifically requested Paulinho.

That season went remarkably well, and Sporting CP won the Portuguese league title. However, during the winter transfer window, it became clear: Amorim wanted Paulinho — and no one else. As a result, Sporting spent a record fee to bring him in. Most people didn’t quite understand the move, as Paulinho was… well… neither outstanding nor terrible. He had the potential to be good, but more often than not, he underperformed and drew heavy criticism.

The following season, Paulinho crumbled under the pressure. He insisted on playing Ricardo Esgaio, who was widely criticised by fans. Throughout the season, supporters voiced their frustration with the lack of tactical alternatives and the persistence in using underperforming players. Amorim did not care. He insisted that Esgaio and Paulinho were doing very well and knew everything of the game.

Ironically, this very stubbornness became one of the key reasons for Amorim’s success. After a long spell of fan frustration, Esgaio - originally brought in to replace Pedro Porro - suffered an injury. This forced Amorim to turn to Geny Catamo, a reserve player who had previously been loaned to Marítimo and was not seen as a serious option.

Amorim began using Geny as a right-back or right-midfielder. That change became one of the defining moments of his success at Sporting CP.

The back three remained, but the setup evolved: Nuno Santos, originally a winger, was now often deployed as a left-back or a left-midfielder. Matheus Reis, a left-back, played as a centre-back. Geny, a left-footed winger, took on the right-back role. Despite still appearing to field five defenders, the team effectively played with only three at the back. Occasionally, Amorim adjusted further — for instance, using Matheus Reis as a left-back to push Geny further forward as a winger.

At the same time, Paulinho started partnering with Gyökeres up front. The once heavily criticised striker finally began to thrive. With less pressure, he operated between the lines, sometimes coming off the bench and creating chances. He evolved from a system with one striker and started some matches with two strikers.

That said, Amorim remains a rigid manager. He famously dropped fan-favourite Slimani, benched another fan-favourite, Jérémy Mathieu, and did the same with Marcos Acuña. His commitment to players like Esgaio or Paulinho, despite poor form, was unwavering.

He is capable of adapting, but only when triggered by an event he deems significant. For example, he eventually gave minutes to Quaresma — a player he had dismissed since his first season and had publicly stated he would not count on again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raoul
The problem here imo is the circumstances - asking a manager to abruptly parachute into a new league mid-season and expecting them to somehow have a good season with a squad mired in injuries and transition was never going to happen.

This isn’t a problem if people would just apply some very basic context to the current situation. Granted that is a step too far for a hell of a lot of posters here
 
Amorim is known for being inflexible. During his time at Sporting CP, this trait has drawn considerable criticism.

His early months at the club mirrored his start at Manchester United. He introduced a 3-4-2-1 system — and that was it. There were no alternatives. He was fully convinced this was the best way for his team to play. By the end of that season, criticism began to grow, and many supporters were unsure whether he should remain in charge for the following year.

Then came the next season, with a renewed squad. The signings were surprisingly good, although fans initially didn’t quite understand the strategy behind them. The team still lacked a proper striker, and reports indicated that Amorim specifically requested Paulinho.

That season went remarkably well, and Sporting CP won the Portuguese league title. However, during the winter transfer window, it became clear: Amorim wanted Paulinho — and no one else. As a result, Sporting spent a record fee to bring him in. Most people didn’t quite understand the move, as Paulinho was… well… neither outstanding nor terrible. He had the potential to be good, but more often than not, he underperformed and drew heavy criticism.

The following season, Paulinho crumbled under the pressure. He insisted on playing Ricardo Esgaio, who was widely criticised by fans. Throughout the season, supporters voiced their frustration with the lack of tactical alternatives and the persistence in using underperforming players. Amorim did not care. He insisted that Esgaio and Paulinho were doing very well and knew everything of the game.

Ironically, this very stubbornness became one of the key reasons for Amorim’s success. After a long spell of fan frustration, Esgaio - originally brought in to replace Pedro Porro - suffered an injury. This forced Amorim to turn to Geny Catamo, a reserve player who had previously been loaned to Marítimo and was not seen as a serious option.

Amorim began using Geny as a right-back or right-midfielder. That change became one of the defining moments of his success at Sporting CP.

The back three remained, but the setup evolved: Nuno Santos, originally a winger, was now often deployed as a left-back or a left-midfielder. Matheus Reis, a left-back, played as a centre-back. Geny, a left-footed winger, took on the right-back role. Despite still appearing to field five defenders, the team effectively played with only three at the back. Occasionally, Amorim adjusted further — for instance, using Matheus Reis as a left-back to push Geny further forward as a winger.

At the same time, Paulinho started partnering with Gyökeres up front. The once heavily criticised striker finally began to thrive. With less pressure, he operated between the lines, sometimes coming off the bench and creating chances. He evolved from a system with one striker and started some matches with two strikers.

That said, Amorim remains a rigid manager. He famously dropped fan-favourite Slimani, benched another fan-favourite, Jérémy Mathieu, and did the same with Marcos Acuña. His commitment to players like Esgaio or Paulinho, despite poor form, was unwavering.

He is capable of adapting, but only when triggered by an event he deems significant. For example, he eventually gave minutes to Quaresma — a player he had dismissed since his first season and had publicly stated he would not count on again.

Good post.

Curious what your overall thoughts on Gyokeres' quality are ? Strengths/weaknesses ?
 
It’s interesting because I completely understand the outrage with results (it’s embarassing ), but at the same time I’m not sure what people expect to see that’s vastly different? Do people think 4231 counterball would have us vastly higher in the table? Does a change in formation suddenly mean we aren’t relying on Garnacho/Hojlund/Zirkzee for attacking production and sharp final third play? Will us playing a different system mean Ugarte and Casemiro will suddenly become anything close to a Newcastle level of athleticism, or technicians like Liverpools midfield?

I don’t think Amorim has done much of anything notable and I’m not sure if he is or isn’t the man to bring us back into contention. He says a lot of the right things and seems to have a pretty clear view of the situation (as opposed to the pure delusion of our last manager). But at a certain point there can't just be a shrugging of the shoulders when it's an endless stream of shit results. At the same time, I genuinely think the majority of our fanbase seems to not understand just how poor the squad is, specifically in midfield/attack. We are a bottom tier team in terms of athleticism, bottom tier in terms of technicality, and absolute rock bottom in terms of attacking sharpness/thrust. You can give any manager in the world those circumstances and the results/performances won't be much better than "meh" and thats best case scenario.

This is where I disagree and what I'm worried about with Amorim. ETH also said a lot of the right things about culture, about ball losses, attitude, possession, player ability etc in his first and even last year but he never really changed the system, personnel or did anything on the training pitch to get the players playing above to their level or better than the sum of its part. I empathise with Amorim for the squad he's inherited but he's 'allowed' as much for the rot to continuing rotting as much as ETH did even if I acknowledge it's over a much shorter time span and with little squad change. It's obvious both managers wanted to play out from the back but why do our centre backs and midfielders go missing every time for the bounce pass/triangles? Why do we have such high ball losses in our own half? I would expect him/them to address that. If Amorim wants playing out from the back then there should be automatic 3-4 options for Onana/the CBs every single time even if we keep losing it but this hasn't changed a single bit in 6 months.

I don't doubt we will play better with surprise better/new players but the lack of actual patterns is a major major red flag. If he's stubborn about his playing style, system etc then actually be stubborn about it. Make your players play that way.

It may be an isolated game as I don't watch much outside of Utd but I had the Liverpool vs West Ham game in the background. West Ham were playing it out from the back against Liverpool's press with remarkable bravery and guile. Ward-Prowse and Paqueta (who was admittedly very good) was doing a lot work in the middle with a similar back 3/wing backs like us. Again I'm not sure if it's representative of their time under Potter but he's only been there since January.

It's not about the results but the performances, which have been downright disgraceful at times. I can forgive it if we were stubbornly doing things in an organised manner and losing but it's a lot of the same individual freestyling we saw under ETH whether that's fair or not. We should be way above meh, something like 'sometimes good, sometimes poor but promising' at the very least. I'll remain patient but it's mostly out of sheer desperation and hope than anything else. If he manages to 'turn it around' (whatever that means) by the end of next season then I'll happily applaud the optimistic lot here.
 
Last edited:
Amorim is known for being inflexible. During his time at Sporting CP, this trait has drawn considerable criticism.

His early months at the club mirrored his start at Manchester United. He introduced a 3-4-2-1 system — and that was it. There were no alternatives. He was fully convinced this was the best way for his team to play. By the end of that season, criticism began to grow, and many supporters were unsure whether he should remain in charge for the following year.

Then came the next season, with a renewed squad. The signings were surprisingly good, although fans initially didn’t quite understand the strategy behind them. The team still lacked a proper striker, and reports indicated that Amorim specifically requested Paulinho.

That season went remarkably well, and Sporting CP won the Portuguese league title. However, during the winter transfer window, it became clear: Amorim wanted Paulinho — and no one else. As a result, Sporting spent a record fee to bring him in. Most people didn’t quite understand the move, as Paulinho was… well… neither outstanding nor terrible. He had the potential to be good, but more often than not, he underperformed and drew heavy criticism.

The following season, Paulinho crumbled under the pressure. He insisted on playing Ricardo Esgaio, who was widely criticised by fans. Throughout the season, supporters voiced their frustration with the lack of tactical alternatives and the persistence in using underperforming players. Amorim did not care. He insisted that Esgaio and Paulinho were doing very well and knew everything of the game.

Ironically, this very stubbornness became one of the key reasons for Amorim’s success. After a long spell of fan frustration, Esgaio - originally brought in to replace Pedro Porro - suffered an injury. This forced Amorim to turn to Geny Catamo, a reserve player who had previously been loaned to Marítimo and was not seen as a serious option.

Amorim began using Geny as a right-back or right-midfielder. That change became one of the defining moments of his success at Sporting CP.

The back three remained, but the setup evolved: Nuno Santos, originally a winger, was now often deployed as a left-back or a left-midfielder. Matheus Reis, a left-back, played as a centre-back. Geny, a left-footed winger, took on the right-back role. Despite still appearing to field five defenders, the team effectively played with only three at the back. Occasionally, Amorim adjusted further — for instance, using Matheus Reis as a left-back to push Geny further forward as a winger.

At the same time, Paulinho started partnering with Gyökeres up front. The once heavily criticised striker finally began to thrive. With less pressure, he operated between the lines, sometimes coming off the bench and creating chances. He evolved from a system with one striker and started some matches with two strikers.

That said, Amorim remains a rigid manager. He famously dropped fan-favourite Slimani, benched another fan-favourite, Jérémy Mathieu, and did the same with Marcos Acuña. His commitment to players like Esgaio or Paulinho, despite poor form, was unwavering.

He is capable of adapting, but only when triggered by an event he deems significant. For example, he eventually gave minutes to Quaresma — a player he had dismissed since his first season and had publicly stated he would not count on again.
Nice to hear from non United fans. Sounds familiar, we hope we are headed in the same eventual direction it seems.
I remember one Sporting fan saying Amorim loved inverted WBs, and I think we were all quite worried when he signed Dorgu and then played him RWB and Dalot LWB which seemed mad and then was thankfully abandoned. Is his preference to do this again do you think at some point?
 
It’s a bit over £3m per place in the table, 7th earns £31m more than 17th.
I think when you look at it weekly, it’s about 600k per week. It wouldn’t surprise me if that is the entirety of the money ‘saved’ from loaning out Rashford, Antony, and Sancho, Malacia.
Now obviously it’s not like a good manager would certainly have got Utd to finish 7th (and you are unlikely to finish 17th), but at the extremes, the numbers are significant.
Didn't realise it was that much £3m per position in team struggling with potential PSR problems is pretty significant.
 
Amorim is known for being inflexible. During his time at Sporting CP, this trait has drawn considerable criticism.

His early months at the club mirrored his start at Manchester United. He introduced a 3-4-2-1 system — and that was it. There were no alternatives. He was fully convinced this was the best way for his team to play. By the end of that season, criticism began to grow, and many supporters were unsure whether he should remain in charge for the following year.

Then came the next season, with a renewed squad. The signings were surprisingly good, although fans initially didn’t quite understand the strategy behind them. The team still lacked a proper striker, and reports indicated that Amorim specifically requested Paulinho.

That season went remarkably well, and Sporting CP won the Portuguese league title. However, during the winter transfer window, it became clear: Amorim wanted Paulinho — and no one else. As a result, Sporting spent a record fee to bring him in. Most people didn’t quite understand the move, as Paulinho was… well… neither outstanding nor terrible. He had the potential to be good, but more often than not, he underperformed and drew heavy criticism.

The following season, Paulinho crumbled under the pressure. He insisted on playing Ricardo Esgaio, who was widely criticised by fans. Throughout the season, supporters voiced their frustration with the lack of tactical alternatives and the persistence in using underperforming players. Amorim did not care. He insisted that Esgaio and Paulinho were doing very well and knew everything of the game.

Ironically, this very stubbornness became one of the key reasons for Amorim’s success. After a long spell of fan frustration, Esgaio - originally brought in to replace Pedro Porro - suffered an injury. This forced Amorim to turn to Geny Catamo, a reserve player who had previously been loaned to Marítimo and was not seen as a serious option.

Amorim began using Geny as a right-back or right-midfielder. That change became one of the defining moments of his success at Sporting CP.

The back three remained, but the setup evolved: Nuno Santos, originally a winger, was now often deployed as a left-back or a left-midfielder. Matheus Reis, a left-back, played as a centre-back. Geny, a left-footed winger, took on the right-back role. Despite still appearing to field five defenders, the team effectively played with only three at the back. Occasionally, Amorim adjusted further — for instance, using Matheus Reis as a left-back to push Geny further forward as a winger.

At the same time, Paulinho started partnering with Gyökeres up front. The once heavily criticised striker finally began to thrive. With less pressure, he operated between the lines, sometimes coming off the bench and creating chances. He evolved from a system with one striker and started some matches with two strikers.

That said, Amorim remains a rigid manager. He famously dropped fan-favourite Slimani, benched another fan-favourite, Jérémy Mathieu, and did the same with Marcos Acuña. His commitment to players like Esgaio or Paulinho, despite poor form, was unwavering.

He is capable of adapting, but only when triggered by an event he deems significant. For example, he eventually gave minutes to Quaresma — a player he had dismissed since his first season and had publicly stated he would not count on again.
This is an excellent and interesting post.

From what I gather, you are saying he lays down the law with players. The Quaresma comment at the end of your post - it will be interesting in Rashford stays and if something similar will happen.

The only thing is and I'm not being disrespectful - and If I am being ignorant you can correct me - I think the time factor for United and Sporting might be so different. The pressure is likely much higher. I really like Ruben, I think he has all the tools to be successful here. The fans are behind him. He knows how to control the media. He seems to have a good relationship with the board. It's our bloody players and their attitudes is what gets all our managers sacked.

United must back him this summer.
 
This is an excellent and interesting post.

From what I gather, you are saying he lays down the law with players. The Quaresma comment at the end of your post - it will be interesting in Rashford stays and if something similar will happen.

The only thing is and I'm not being disrespectful - and If I am being ignorant you can correct me - I think the time factor for United and Sporting might be so different. The pressure is likely much higher. I really like Ruben, I think he has all the tools to be successful here. The fans are behind him. He knows how to control the media. He seems to have a good relationship with the board. It's our bloody players and their attitudes is what gets all our managers sacked.

United must back him this summer.
Rashford's gone either way I think. Outside of the inconsistency on the pitch his wage is a huge problem and the fee he brings is going to be needed to back Amorim. Be interesting to see what we do with Antony though.
 
Didn't realise it was that much £3m per position in team struggling with potential PSR problems is pretty significant.
I wonder if it also impact tv money the year after as well. United are a big name but finishing near the relegation places + not exactly being that exciting/high scoring isn't really going to endear us to the tv overlords when the pick games to show.
 
Having seen enough games now under Amorim, how many players do you think will be performing better under this system by next season ?
A good number. Mazraoui and Dalot have significantly improved their understanding of operating as wingbacks as compared to when Amorim first arrived. (Remember thd move vs Arsenal that led to a world class save by Raya)
Yoro, Mazraoui, and De Ligt have all displayed shown improved understanding of operating in a 3 man center back trio. In spite of them errors vs Newcastle from two of them. Martinez too before being struck with injury.

Bruno has adjusted the fastest being able to operate in deeper midfield in a duo. He will be even superior going forward. As will Amad.

I thought Mainoo showed promise as a 10 before injury stalled him.

Zirkzee has showed real progress as a 10 in the system. Plus is starting to understand what Amorim demands from him as a 9 in terms of movement and pressing.

I thought Amass on his debut. Plus Collyier whenever he has played has looked used to the system.

In spite of initial growing pains. He has found a role in which he can groom Garnacho in this system. His recent performances as an inside right 10 have shown glimses of promise.

I'm quietly confident those that stay beyond the summer will be assets in this system.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if it also impact tv money the year after as well. United are a big name but finishing near the relegation places + not exactly being that exciting/high scoring isn't really going to endear us to the tv overlords when the pick games to show.
Who knows. Think Uniteds pull is still top tier be that actual fans who want to watch or oppo fans who want to laugh at how shite we are.
 
But you've also seen Moyes go into clubs and struggle right?

So how does that work with your theory? Was Moyes a bad manager then but a good manager now?

Or are other factors at play?
It's all a bit crazy and unpredictable.
 
Having seen enough games now under Amorim, how many players do you think will be performing better under this system by next season ?

Very few of the current players will be performing better under this system by next season, if they cant perform better in it after 5 months of competitive games I doubt they are suddenly going to improve in it after a few pre-season friendlies in Malaysia
 
Fair enough but our current struggles under Amorim aren't solely down to switching formation. And our struggles under Tan Hag for 18 months weren't due to playing 4231 either it was primarily due to Ten Hag employing a brand of football that made little or no sense and stubbornly sticking with it. We did fine in 22/23 with 4231 using more sensible tactics.

I'd agree that this squad is more suited to 4231/433 but I think most of our struggles this season can be traced back to a lack of quality training under Ten Hag, virtually no midfield/defensive structure being implemented for a long period (something Amorim has improved), key personnel missing and a factor that gets overlooked I feel. This squad virtually to a man has or was rock bottom in terms of confidence. Half of them look much worse players than they are right now.
The single most damaging aspect of the Ten Hag era was a lack of quality in recruitment. I don’t think the formation really matters. An extreme example, but if we had Alphonse Davies and Hakimi at wingback, Rice and Neves at CM, Wirtz at 10 and Harry Kane, we’d be challenging for the league. Obviously not all of those were even available, but talent matters.

I think if you look at top 15 clubs in the world, virtually every one of our first choice 11 would be squad rotation players. Maybe only Bruno would be in with a shout.
 
Very few of the current players will be performing better under this system by next season, if they cant perform better in it after 5 months of competitive games I doubt they are suddenly going to improve in it after a few pre-season friendlies in Malaysia

The players are performing the way they are because Amorim doesn’t have the pieces in place to implement his formation and tactics. Some of the current players will settle into that next year along with a few new arrivals. Those who aren’t ideal for Amorim’s style of play will leave.
 
The single most damaging aspect of the Ten Hag era was a lack of quality in recruitment.

Do you think this was apparent at the time? I think we can see in hindsight that he made some pretty awful buys, particularly on long, expensive contracts.

Looking back at it, I don’t think his first year was too bad at first glance. Although that second season does look abysmal. I just can’t remember if it was considered bad at the time, or whether it’s hindsight.
 
Do you think this was apparent at the time? I think we can see in hindsight that he made some pretty awful buys, particularly on long, expensive contracts.

Looking back at it, I don’t think his first year was too bad at first glance. Although that second season does look abysmal. I just can’t remember if it was considered bad at the time, or whether it’s hindsight.
Yes, in the first summer many of us were ringing the alarm bells when it became clear the club was going to continue letting the manager drive recruitment and handpick targets.
 
Yes, in the first summer many of us were ringing the alarm bells when it became clear the club was going to continue letting the manager drive recruitment and handpick targets.

Yeah fair enough. I think his first summer was actually better than his second, but you’ve reminded me about the worries on here, especially focusing on players he’d managed before.
 
Very few of the current players will be performing better under this system by next season, if they cant perform better in it after 5 months of competitive games I doubt they are suddenly going to improve in it after a few pre-season friendlies in Malaysia

I agree. Huge squad overhaul is needed. Early in the window too.
 
Do you think this was apparent at the time? I think we can see in hindsight that he made some pretty awful buys, particularly on long, expensive contracts.

Looking back at it, I don’t think his first year was too bad at first glance. Although that second season does look abysmal. I just can’t remember if it was considered bad at the time, or whether it’s hindsight.
I feel this happens with every manager though. Ole’s window of Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo was praised on here about best ever by some. Look at it now. Jose saddled us with almost no one that stayed long term apart from bloody Lindelof. He also got Dalot although as a cheap punt but he’s been ok broadly speaking I guess.

Ineos will struggle to be worse than the post SAF years.
 
The situation looks a bit grim but we must allow him to get a couple of attackers before we judge him. Goals win matches and lack of goals loose matches. Despite playing well and appearing comfortable in a lot of the games, we lose or draw matches because our attackers are not able to put the ball in the back of the net.
Look at Mendes’ goal for PSG vs Villa just now - the ball was bouncing but he finished it with ease. That’s the kind of ruthlessness we need.
 
I feel this happens with every manager though. Ole’s window of Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo was praised on here about best ever by some. Look at it now. Jose saddled us with almost no one that stayed long term apart from bloody Lindelof. He also got Dalot although as a cheap punt but he’s been ok broadly speaking I guess.

Ineos will struggle to be worse than the post SAF years.

I guess the thing is, when you look at those 3 big signings, it’s two genuinely world class players, ‘legends’ of the game, and one of the most highly rated forwards in Europe. You can see why people were so pleased.
Looking back, Mourinho’s signings really were the gift that keeps on giving though. I don’t think I’d registered quite how little they took Utd forward as a team.
 
Very few of the current players will be performing better under this system by next season, if they cant perform better in it after 5 months of competitive games I doubt they are suddenly going to improve in it after a few pre-season friendlies in Malaysia

People think pre season is some kind of pancea where 4 weeks will make our center backs miraculously be able to play better in the build up
 
We have an old Eriksen, washed up Casemiro, naive and young Garnacho, crap and weak Lindelof, young and first season Yoro, no focus Dalot, only shit goalkeepers, debut Amass and a long list of injuries. On top, a club in huge trouble for all the wrong reasons.

Do you really think we can play successfull, great football?