He should have been gone ages ago.
I still believe that his outburst was the main cause though.
Why else cause upheaval now when we were in the European mix.
Ruben Amorim | Sacked
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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I still believe that his outburst was the main cause though.
Why else cause upheaval now when we were in the European mix.
From what I understand it's the combination between a lack of cooperation on his part and his outburst which are both linked.
Yes, but I think a lot of fans were accepting that he would get the season or until European football was gone.
I don't think many thought he would be sacked when they didn't do it after previous bad results like Everton.
He should have been sacked but the timing was strange.
Yes, agreed
Yes, his outburst was the straw that broken the camels back. But the outburst only happened because he was under increasing pressure from INEOS over performances and results.
That outburst doesn’t happen if he’s getting results every week. I’m genuinely baffled by how you don’t see that the outburst and our run of poor results are fundamentally connected.
Agreed the timing is odd but it’s also overdue
The results were poor yes but they had been worse on other occasions. I understand your point.
I agree that the outburst was a significant reason for his sacking at this time. If you think the results at this time were the main reason then fair enough, but there was plenty evidence to suggest that the results to a point didn't matter.
You’re still missing the point. It’s not either/or. The outburst happened because of the results. The two go hand in hand. INEOS put pressure on Amorim over the tactics because results were poor, and that caused Amorim to have blow up in the meeting and then have the outburst at the press conference.
Ok man
Thank you. I don't think our fans actually pay attention to other clubs. Every club sacks managers that underperform, and most do not keep bad managers for long. They don't wait for a grand plan to come together, instead they take action before standards drop. If it doesn't look right on the pitch and players aren't happy, they use those key indicators to take action. At United, if things don't look right on the pitch, and players aren't happy, we punish the players for not being happy by selling them ( as their lack of happiness, not the football) is the root cause and spend 200m to ensure the manager has happy players. Unfortunately, as it always turns out to be the case, the poor football had nothing to do with the unhappiness of the players, and so it simply continues.
If things don't look right on the pitch, then it either needs a short amount of time to gel or the manager isn't getting the system to work. In the last 30 years, this has always been the case in the Premier League for top teams. The system doesn't always look perfect to start, but the team is still able to win and control games. Over time, these teams then become more dominant and find it far easier to win games. One constant feature with all of our unsuccessful managers (outside of Mourinho and Ole) is that they were comfortable with not winning games to start. Van Gaal for example, was willing to risk our first 6 months using a 352 that we barely looked coherent with. He took that risk, having not used the system in club football. He was so arrogant that he was willing to use the likes of Tyler Blackett to make it work and wasted 6 months of our time and a potential title challenge to do it. People forget, but even Mourinho adapted his system initially to suit games, and in that adaptation, he found his 433 that led to titles. Conte did the same and found his 343. Why? Because they had an urgency to want to win games and they understood the importance of doing that at the top club that they were in. They understood that they didn't have 6 months to muck about, but had to deliver results and performances quickly to be taken seriously. If Amorim was the manager of Madrid, and the 343 wasn't working to start, he would have changed his system quickly without batting an eyelid. He wouldn't have held any of the stupid press conferences he had explaining why he wouldn't change, because he knew that he would lose his job immediately if he did that. Yet, here we are with Amorim, where he gets questioned after 14 months of the club's hierachy fully backing him and supporting his failure, and he goes out of his way to whinge. Instead of backing the club against that level of petulence, you have our fans coming up with ways to justify Amorim's actions and creating hypotheticals to justify his delusion. Now everyone is angry with INEOS. Somehow they should have a plan, "they should know what Amorim is going to say", "they've wasted another season", "they only sacked him because he called them out", "How can they sack someone without immediatly knowing his replacement ( without any sign whatsoever on the summer manager recruitment process)". Yes, I'm annoyed that they let this happen and that they took so long in coming to a decision that most people knew by September. They, like some fans here, bought into Amorim, gave him space, and ended up with egg on their faces for the trust they had in him, both as a head coach and as a person. All these questions on "this" board, are being made to alleviate a bad head coach from taking responsibility for his failure. This is INEOS' first managerial hire, they got it wrong. They got it wrong to keep Ten Haag as well ( I wanted him fired after the FA Cup). I don't think it makes them failures, I just think as a club we have to re-evaluate how we position managers and how much grace we give them. Maybe we reduce the initial PR spin and the interviews
To be fair if he wasn't doing so poorly on the pitch and actually getting results. He'd have survived his outburst.
When you're on shaky ground performance wise it's not a good idea to start making public scenes in pressers. Unless of course you want to be sacked.
I was willing to goe through growing pains with EtH because I liked him. I was indifferent about Amorim. It's not nice to be indifferent about a United manager I've learned.
We're about to play two games we already played and lost? That seems off somehow.
We play each league team twice. Once home, once away. This is a very typical occurrence in league competitions.
Oh, so you meant theose are the next two TEAMS we are about to play. What you said was those were the next two games we were going to play, which doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
Sorry, English is my fourth language. I’m sure with your great intellect you were still able to deduce my meaning.
Thanks for the pedantry though, it’s a great look on you.
It was pretty clear what you meant, but Kayla seems to have a pathological need to try and appear extra smart in every exchange.
Top Tip: If you're going to kick off at your bosses you need to be really really really good. If you've done a very underwhelming job for two years then you'll end up the loser.
I wouldn't say I have any need to appear even smart let alone extra smart. No one who is extra smart is that pedantic. I'm just in a mood and wanted to respond to a pointless comment with one of my own.
It wasn’t a pointless comment. You claimed our results against top of the table teams this season had been pretty good, and then used a game we lost as an example. Which was an odd choice.
I simply pointed out our next two games were both against teams we lost to earlier this season.
I knew EXACTLY what you meant from your post. There’s no need to write “Amorim lost against both Arsenal and City, who are the two opponents in the next two games we’re about to play”. In fact, if you’d just put three dots or a semi colon instead of a comma, it’d be perfect.
It’s 99.9% of the way to elliptical construction.
It's Amorim. You should never be surprised by the amount of defenders he has.
The annoying thing is the pay off - might as well have pushed him to quit.
Usually five?
This is either a piece of art or lacking paragraphs.
What the fexk is this post about? Try and stay on topic ffs
Yes, we did. I can't refute that. If you aren't interested in the context/nuance of one of those games, fair play. Nothing I can do about that either.
But also, none of what you said negates what I said. We were better against top half teams, including wins of Pool and Chelsea who both have much better squads than us, than bottom half teams. In the end, it's sort of irrelevant. We sacked our manager, have taken a fecking age to name an interim and are likely to get battered in both games which we probably would have anyway.
You could also just frame it as less of a defense of Amorim and more of a condemnation of the football hierarchy and the squad that they put together.
Any manager;s going to struggle to win more than 33% of their games with the midfield options we have and to be honest when you have to start Dalot week in and week out you're lucky to ever win any match.
Its a collective failure. There’s a board full of donkeys and then there’s a manager that made countless mistakes. I’m done with pretending that everything will be okay because we are going to hire a new ‘head coach’.
Both needed to go but only one did. It will be same story with the next manager. It has always been like this. It seems like INEOS think they are any better but to be brutally honest, they are far worse than Ed Woodward. INEOS have ruined multiple clubs and that alone should tell you how incompetent they are. They have to go (even before Glazers, I couldn’t care less. They have done enough damage).
Those who are calling out posters for ‘defending’ Amorim need to understand what others are actually arguing about.
Both needed to go but only one did. It will be same story with the next manager. It has always been like this. It seems like INEOS think they are any better but to be brutally honest, they are far worse than Ed Woodward. INEOS have ruined multiple clubs and that alone should tell you how incompetent they are. They have to go (even before Glazers, I couldn’t care less. They have done enough damage).
Those who are calling out posters for ‘defending’ Amorim need to understand what others are actually arguing about.
You people can lie. fecking hell
We could have discussed performances, or context, or nuances etc. But you were the one that specifically chose to claim we had gotten good results, whilst using a loss as your example. That was an odd choice so I pointed it out. Losses generally aren’t considered a good result.
Agreed, using the wins we got against Chelsea and Liverpool instead would have been a much more sensible example of good results against top teams, albeit slightly less relevant, as we don’t play either of them in any of our upcoming games. As a reminder, the poster you were originally replying to was specifically talking about our upcoming games against teams we “couldn’t get results against”. We play Arsenal and City in our upcoming games, both of whom we lost to in the reverse fixtures. So he was on the money with his statement.
You shouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon. For now, there are too many posters here to make sure they knew it all along and that their distrust was justified from early doubts onwards. Anything against the narrative of "should have happened even earlier" and "95% of the blame is on the manager" won't fly for a while, not in this thread. To a degree, understandable. Hopefully it will tip to the amusing side with posts like earlier where the bad performance against Brighton was down to "3-4-3 instincts that will go away soon" and not further into the sad side where Ole is described as a successful manager.
To a degree, understandable?
I mean, he’s the worst Manchester United manager in history. there should be no disscussion wether he was ”lucky” to keep his job as long as he did.
That in of itself is also a criticism of the hierarchy.
Amorim get’s his share- as does Ratcliffe, Wilcox and Berrada who are rightly getting absoluty peltered here aswell as in the stands.
This seems a little disingenuous. There has been plenty thrown at the INEOS lot and rightly so. I think you’d struggle to find many posters who think it’s all on Amorim and INEOS are doing great. There’s a mountain of justified criticism being aimed at both.
He's the Liz Truss of Manchester United managers.
Sadly he lasted longer than that lettuce.
Get off your high horse. It was obvious at the end of last season that Amorim wasn't the right man. But for whatever reason a lot of people on here have trouble admitting they backed the wrong horse and humbly admitting they were wrong, and instead have to die on the new manager hill each and every time.
Yes, to a degree understandable. For some, like you and many others on here, the degree is very very high. While it isn't as high for a few others. Is that such a controversial thing to say? Nobody denies that the performances and results weren't up to scratch. But that isn't a new factor. Not everybody who is critical of the sacking in here is a defender of Amorim and is in here in support of Amorim - but rather to lay blame on the club for different reasons. Something most of you seem to agree with - again to variing degree.
The guy is gone now. The last two games aren't much of an indicator that his formation was such the burden on the team many made it out to be. But lets see how it goes and how the next games will go. If we find some good form, even better.
Well, I'll happily edit my post to 66 - 75% then. And you are right, they are blamed and rightly so - but just looking at your posts: you seem adamant that the sacking was solely over results and performances. Which (in my perception at least) puts a very high share (hence the 95%) of the blame on the ex-manager. Which, fair play, it might be your stance and you are sure and it is the most plausible for you and all. But you are driving that on here as if it is a fact when it mostly is just the explanation that you think is the correct one. Maybe thats a misunderstanding, I don't know. But that is how it looks. The guy is gone. We'll have to live with the higher-ups, which is probably where the interest comes from whether they made mistakes as well - other mistakes than "should have gotten rid of him earlier".
I mean yes, how is it not completely understandable that people would believe Amorim got more time than he earned?
Besides, there’s nothing to agree or disagree about regarding Amorims sacking. He gave the board no option but to terminate him.
If he hadn’t rocked the boat he’d most likely still be in a job today.
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