Ruben Amorim | Sacked

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We have 31 points from 20 games so far this season and in Ten Hags 2nd season we also had 31 points after 20 games so we are actually level with where Ten Hag had us.

We finished with 79 points in the treble season, we finished with 81 points in Mourinho's second season. Was Mourinho's 2nd place finish better? Obviously not.

Comparing points across seasons is a stupid exercise, it's an entirely different competition with different competitors and often different rules.
 
:lol:

So now we know you don't know what a strawman actually is. For future reference, it's misrepresenting someone else's argument and then attacking that misrepresented argument instead of their actual argument.

Besides, the primary comparison I made was between 8th and 6th. The most important fact of all each season - league position.

Like when you accused me of being disingenuous for using last season’s win rate when I was actually using this season’s win rate?

Classic. :lol:
 
In as much as Amorim had his faults most of the hit pieces in the press are nothing more than Club PR because they make the club executives look good and the coach very bad in all instances, which is practically impossible. Most of the stories are quoting club officials who obviously want to look good in the eyes of the fans and pundits and all the talk is now focused on the Manager instead of the board who got us here.

Everyone spoke highly about how good Sporting Lisbon were in terms of structure and tactics playing 3-4-2-1 but today the same coach is suddenly a fraud because he didn't turn around a broken team fast enough.

The next caretaker manager is going to face the same issues because the Midfield is still dire and will not be good enough without new signings
 
No, backing a manager is allowing them to see it through and build their team. Exactly like the three sides that are not coincidentally much better than everyone else in the division.

Now we're back drifting. This has not been a good week for this football club.
60 some matches and over 200m later?

31% winning percentage?

Calling out your bosses publicly?

Kind of a mental viewpoint. It’s absolute. Give him 3 years and 600m no matter he has not hit any of the goals set forth by the board? No company outside of football would give an underperforming top executive 14 months to continue to underperform.

Not sure why Amorim deserves special treatment.
 
Like when you accused me of being disingenuous for using last season’s win rate when I was actually using this season’s win rate?

Classic. :lol:

This is bordering on obsession now. Pulling the hair of girls you fancy so they'll pay attention to you vibes.
 
This is bordering on obsession now. Pulling the hair of girls you fancy so they'll pay attention to you vibes.

What a weird post.

If you’re going to accuse other people of straw manning on a thread where you yourself have engaged in that very same behaviour then I’ll call it out for what it is when I see it.
 
Dude, your guy is gone, give it a rest. Just wait a bit and you can put your support behind whichever club he manages next. And maybe you can join up with their forum and tell them about how dangerous Amorim will have their team looking…….just not at any point in the first 14 months. Warn them about the suffering though.
:lol: :lol:
If he wanted to out but wouldn't hand in a formal notice then INEOS should have put him and his staff into the "Bomb Squad, Mark 2".

Made him coach a bunch of traffic cones at Carrington in the middle of the night.
Then in the morning all the cones are in one stack.

Look, somebody fecked up massively in hiring Amorim. From the outset, the 3 CBs thing plus wingbacks was antithetical to United. It was pointed out by many. The allure of grabbing the next Guardiola proved too seductive, and Wilcox, Berrada, Ratcliffe Went all-in on Amorim.

The results were far worse than anyone could have expected. Worse, we weren’t playing a fun style and just being unlucky, we were boring and losing. It appears they kept giving Amorim more rope and were far too patient with him — which was really trying to cover their own ineptitude in hiring him. Despite this, sacking Amorim was 100% the right call and I am so fecking glad that gaslighting grifter is gone. I looked at the possibility of watching another year and a half of this total garbage football and felt only despair. Firing Amorim is like getting out of jail.
 
What a weird post.

If you’re going to accuse other people of straw manning on a thread where you yourself have engaged in that very same behaviour then I’ll call it out for what it is when I see it.

It's one of the most accurate posts in the thread, you literally can't help yourself.

Anyway the constant bad faith posting was one thing, but now that I can't have conversations with others without you trying to insert yourself like a jealous ex, I'm gonna have to put you on the ignore list.
 
Quality control
@ti vu @The Hilton @Zumbi

What is the point in this argument?

Comparing Amorim this season against Ten Hag's second season is like arguing about who has the biggest dick at the small dick convention.
I didn’t do comparison. I am calling out a deluded lying Amorim cultist for RAWKish projecting alternative league table as a mean to suck up Amorim’s D.
 
@ti vu @The Hilton @Zumbi

What is the point in this argument?

Comparing Amorim this season against Ten Hag's second season is like arguing about who has the biggest dick at the small dick convention.

You're absolutely right, it is pointless, I don't know how we got into it really, sometimes you get sucked in to these things.

I didn’t do comparison. I am calling out a deluded lying Amorim cultist for RAWKish projecting alternative league table as a mean to suck up Amorim’s D.

You need help mate, this is unhinged.
 
Everyone spoke highly about how good Sporting Lisbon were in terms of structure and tactics playing 3-4-2-1 but today the same coach is suddenly a fraud because he didn't turn around a broken team fast enough.

The next caretaker manager is going to face the same issues because the Midfield is still dire and will not be good enough without new signings
I for one will be looking at Amorim very closely to see if he can replicate Sporting success using 3421 elsewhere. By the way, didn't Sporting win the league after he left playing 433?
 
It's one of the most accurate posts in the thread, you literally can't help yourself.

Anyway the constant bad faith posting was one thing, but now that I can't have conversations with others without you trying to insert yourself like a jealous ex, I'm gonna have to put you on the ignore list.

AKA i’m blocking you because I don’t like being called out on my own constant bad faith posting.

Projection at its finest.
 
An essay with a strawman conclusion. Someone likes the sound of their own voice!

My argument is based on the League table. That's what matters, everything else is secondary. So far this season was looking much better than Ten Hag's second season, as demonstrated by the better league position. Hopefully whoever gets the interim job can continue that for the second half of the season.
Weren't we 5th or 6th after 20 games that season only to fall to 8th near the very end?
 
Amorim deserved more time IMO. We were starting to play some good stuff, and i believe that would have continued. Many people are saying that hes the first manager thats left a better situation than he inherited. I agree with that, and i think that means something.

In what sense, league position?

When he took over we were 4 points off 4th. We're currently 3 points off 4th. So that is better to be fair.
 
It's still all a bit surreal. I've been more ardently "Amorim out" than any other manager post-SAF. Maybe it's a generational thing, maybe it's a personality thing, but Amorim just seemed so incredibly immature, so incredibly naive, and just incredibly annoying and petulant. The dramatic staring away during key points of a match, the covering his eyes during penalties, the "worst united team ever", the "sometimes I hate my kids", the "I would leave for free" threats, threatening to quit multiple times, the smashing up a TV with tears in his eyes, "the pope won't make me change formation". etc, etc. No surprise it ended up with a petulant, emotional meltdown. I'll never understand how people thought he had any charisma, charm, or was even remotely ... likeable. He made Mourinho and van Gaal at their cringeworthiest seem pretty far more likeable to me. So, good riddance. I think for anyone who has had to manage someone like this at work, the "I'm so much smarter than everyone else, I'll quit if you don't appreciate my talent, everyone around me sucks" type employee, you just have to cut bait. If anything, the club gave him WAAAAAY TOO MUCH time and rope. Eventually, he hung himself with it. They always do. And, as far as I know he didn't give up his compensation (they never do). They all talk a big game, and always end up going out like a punk b*itch. You know the type. He's got his box of personal belongings, walking out the door escorted by a security officer, smirking and proclaiming how he's a martyr and standing on principle, meanwhile his former coworkers are planning a happy hour after work to fecking celebrate they don't have to work with that wanker again, and making sure they blacklist whatever company foolishly hires him on LinkedIn.

I know, too, that some smart arse will pop up saying, "well, remember when Klopp did this, or Guardiola did that, or SAF this, or Wenger kicked the water bottle, or whoever did whatever..." Bullshit. If Amorim accomplished a quarter of what Klopp, Guardiola, SAF or Wenger did, we wouldn't be having a discussion now. He'd still be here. His legacy is shit results, coupled with petulance. He's the bratty nephew you fecking despise. You know that nephew. The one who comes over, and somehow damages your lawn sprinkler system that you know will cost you 150 quid to get fixed, and afterwards instead of apologising, starts to proclaim how good he is at fecking Fortnite. Whilst you glare your sister, fuming.

As for the club, well, they should rightly castigated for not getting rid sooner. However, they tried, and tried, and tried again to support him and keep him onside. But you can't. You can't keep someone like that onside. I'd have cut him loose after the Europa League final. Grimsby was another flashing bright red flag. Everton, well, just another. Then Wolves. If anything, the club were way too patient, way too understanding.

I have nothing to say on Solksjaer, Carrick, Fletcher, or whoever... except to say, I'd bet my house they'll be more adult and mature. The only good thing I can say is that the club finally acted.
 
AKA i’m blocking you because I don’t like being called out on my own constant bad faith posting.

Projection at its finest.

Take it from someone who can get pretty heated themselves as it takes one to know one, but I do think you are almost always out to look for an argument here. So many of your posts are around trying to belittle other posters where it goes past the line of a debate and into the realm of an argument. If you word yourself more constructively you might have healthier debates.

Hilton is a good poster and if he's blocking you it's because he's fed up of confrontational BS, not because he can't debate his corner well.

Just look at me and @Berbaclass - he called me mate recently
 
Weren't we 5th or 6th after 20 games that season only to fall to 8th near the very end?

Surprisingly position wise this season is overall worse. During ETH second season our worse spot was one week at 12th, this season we were below that 4 different weeks. The highs are similar at 6th. And yes the second part of the season was almost entirely at 6th with the exception of the last 3 weeks.
 
Take it from someone who can get pretty heated themselves as it takes one to know one, but I do think you are almost always out to look for an argument here. So many of your posts are around trying to belittle other posters where it goes past the line of a debate and into the realm of an argument. If you word yourself more constructively you might have healthier debates.

Hilton is a good poster and if he's blocking you it's because he's fed up of confrontational BS, not because he can't debate his corner well.

Just look at me and @Berbaclass - he called me mate recently

Agreed, that is pretty rich coming from you!

Seriously though, Hilton has been consistently confrontational with me accusing me of all sorts of downright weird things, including not being a real fan because I had the temerity to criticise our second half performance against Newcastle. I’ll give as good as I get with posters like that.
 
Agreed, that is pretty rich coming from you!

Seriously though, Hilton has been consistently confrontational with me accusing me of all sorts of downright weird things, including not being a real fan because I had the temerity to criticise our second half performance against Newcastle. I’ll give as good as I get with posters like that.
Yeah I did make it quite clear that this is the case in most of your posts but you do you I guess.
 
Amorim deserved more time IMO. We were starting to play some good stuff, and i believe that would have continued. Many people are saying that hes the first manager thats left a better situation than he inherited. I agree with that, and i think that means something.
Actually that's another one of those cliches that gets trotted out every time we sack a manager. "Laying the foundations" and all that.
 
Moyes is an interesting comparison. Im fundamentally a 'back the manager' guy in my core, because thats what i do for a living. I manage large teams and large projects, under contract.

When i take a role, it comes in two parts. What i can offer has to align with the project being sold to me. I think Moyes should have been sacked, but i also think Moyes would have acted differently had he been given, say, a 2 year contract. Giving him 6 years is a message - you have time to mould this club your way.

Same with Amorim. The club knew how he set his team up, and they also knew he didnt have the squad for it. That there, is a project, that both sides signed up for. I admire him for not buckling on his belief. You need a leader with a vision. Due diligence occured, and conversations were had, and a decision was made. Not only a decision, but actual pressure. 'Come now, even though you are reluctant, or lose it forever'

Amorim deserved more time IMO. We were starting to play some good stuff, and i believe that would have continued. Many people are saying that hes the first manager thats left a better situation than he inherited. I agree with that, and i think that means something.

Are we better off now? Back to interims. Back to a guy who we already sacked, and whom many of our fanbase still label as not being up to the job when he had it before. I really fail to see how this isnt a terrible outcome for everyone.

I would agree that we're better off now than when he started. But that's also about the recruitment, which is being taken away from the managers.
And I had no problem with him sticking to his preferred formation (I've been fairly consistent in saying that formation doesn't really matter). It's also true that the best football of his reign came this season, so there were signs of progress.
But there were still massive red flags about whether he would ever be able to get us playing well consistently enough and whether he was capable of influencing a game with his decision making and tactics or and his ability to inspire and motivate.

The negative sounds coming from his side were also becoming an issue. And ultimately that, more than results, became the straw that broke the camel's back. Once that relationship has gone it's over.

Are we better off now? I'd argue yes. If it gets to the point where the manager and board are at odds, it's only a matter of time, so there's no point in delaying the inevitable. Hiring an interim is a sensible approach to allow time for due diligence on the next appointment. I'd rather they do that then rush out to get the first available manager.

Whether this is a terrible outcome really boils down to how confident you are that Amorim was the guy to get us back to the 'top' (whatever your definition of top may be) and how long it will take.
 
Moyes is an interesting comparison. Im fundamentally a 'back the manager' guy in my core, because thats what i do for a living. I manage large teams and large projects, under contract.

When i take a role, it comes in two parts. What i can offer has to align with the project being sold to me. I think Moyes should have been sacked, but i also think Moyes would have acted differently had he been given, say, a 2 year contract. Giving him 6 years is a message - you have time to mould this club your way.

Same with Amorim. The club knew how he set his team up, and they also knew he didnt have the squad for it. That there, is a project, that both sides signed up for. I admire him for not buckling on his belief. You need a leader with a vision. Due diligence occured, and conversations were had, and a decision was made. Not only a decision, but actual pressure. 'Come now, even though you are reluctant, or lose it forever'

Amorim deserved more time IMO. We were starting to play some good stuff, and i believe that would have continued. Many people are saying that hes the first manager thats left a better situation than he inherited. I agree with that, and i think that means something.

Are we better off now? Back to interims. Back to a guy who we already sacked, and whom many of our fanbase still label as not being up to the job when he had it before. I really fail to see how this isnt a terrible outcome for everyone.

3 wins in the last 11.

We were better than last season but being better than our worst season for about 50 years shouldn't really be seen as some big achievement.
 
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There are good faith arguments on both sides of the to sack or not to sack Amorim question. But for me, it was clear about 6-8 weeks ago when we began a relatively easy run of fixtures and we kept dropping points, starting with Forest, that we were going nowhere under his leadership. The play was insipid, the players themselves didn't seem sure of what the manager -- apologies, head coach -- wanted from them, and of course the results was unacceptable. We got some great results, Liverpool comes to mind and even the 0-1 defeat to Arsenal was admirable, but after 12+ months the performances and the results were not improving and with the last two draws to Wolves and Leeds, it was undeniably the case that Amorim and the players were done with each other.
 
Moyes is an interesting comparison. Im fundamentally a 'back the manager' guy in my core, because thats what i do for a living. I manage large teams and large projects, under contract.

When i take a role, it comes in two parts. What i can offer has to align with the project being sold to me. I think Moyes should have been sacked, but i also think Moyes would have acted differently had he been given, say, a 2 year contract. Giving him 6 years is a message - you have time to mould this club your way.

Same with Amorim. The club knew how he set his team up, and they also knew he didnt have the squad for it. That there, is a project, that both sides signed up for. I admire him for not buckling on his belief. You need a leader with a vision. Due diligence occured, and conversations were had, and a decision was made. Not only a decision, but actual pressure. 'Come now, even though you are reluctant, or lose it forever'

Amorim deserved more time IMO. We were starting to play some good stuff, and i believe that would have continued. Many people are saying that hes the first manager thats left a better situation than he inherited. I agree with that, and i think that means something.

Are we better off now? Back to interims. Back to a guy who we already sacked, and whom many of our fanbase still label as not being up to the job when he had it before. I really fail to see how this isnt a terrible outcome for everyone.

The only difference between what was left behind from Ten Hag and Amorim is the level of recruitment, which is more a credit to Wilcox & co. than it is on Amorim. In both managerial cases, the players didn't necessarily "give up" and neither lost the dressing room. You can see players working and trying but the system was wrong + for Ten Hag, bad recruitment caught up whereas for Amorim his over the top emotions got the better of him eventually.
 
And nine of those matches were against teams in the bottom half. Three against teams in the relegation zone. Failed to win four home matches against said shite.

It's mental how many people keep peddling this myth that things were on the upswing, that we were starting to click and we were playing well etc.

It's absolute nonsense. The performances against Everton, West Ham and Wolves recently were as bad as anything last season.
 
In what sense, league position?

When he took over we were 4 points off 4th. We're currently 3 points off 4th. So that is better to be fair.
It depends what you think the end goal is. For me the end goal is a great football team that can win things over several seasons. In that sense a point gained here, a point lost there, doesnt really change the plan.

We arent suddenly going to morph into a title challenging team no matter who fills out the teamsheet. We are currently part of a huge pool of teams who can all beat each other, and ive said all season that results and performances are going to be erratic, so prepare for it. That wont change now because Amorim has gone.

What has changed is that we've abandoned a plan that the club had invested time and money into. Many will say that plan wasnt working - i wont argue against that but i also wont buy into it. We werent there yet. General consensus amongst many neutrals were that the seeds of a team were emerging. Another summer was needed.

I just think its a mess now. I can only see Tuchel as someone to get excited by currently. Until then we're back in short term fix limbo and people coming in because they played for the club.
 
Many people are saying that hes the first manager thats left a better situation than he inherited. I agree with that, and i think that means something.
Arguable but if it's true that's because ETH and bad recruitment had turned us into what was essentially a lower half level team. The only way was up. Amorim also made it worse before he made it better.

The club spending £200+m and going down to one game a week due to no Europe has seen us slowly starting to look like a top half team again - this isn't exactly a huge achievement.
 
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