Russian invasion of Ukraine

tomaldinho1

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That’s just nonsense. First of all Zelenskyi offered countless times that he’s willing to meet with Putin directly to discuss the matters but Russia wants none of that diplomacy you’re suggesting. Secondly, the president has been elected to represent the views of the population at large which voted him in, anyone who would try pivoting back to Russia wouldn’t survive a day in the office. Basically, what you’re saying is feck the will of people because your neighbor is Russia.
Yeah this is solely on Putin - he’s clearly been planning it for years. He’s getting old, probably isn’t as sharp as he once was and knows the dependence on Russian LNG isn’t going to last forever. That’s why it’s so worrying, it’s not like he’ll get any opposition internally as you would in a normal country, so it’s basically a slightly potty old bloke with nothing to lose going for a land grab.
 

11101

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That, and China's changing stance on all this are the two most significant things imo. If China won't take Russia's side then they are left extremely isolated and an isolated Putin is dangerous.
 

spiriticon

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It's a good idea for Germany not to become too dependent on Russia for energy or anything. Russia will slowly lead them into the next war and they really don't need that.
 

Revan

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Now ban them from swift, and threaten full embargo if they start going over territories not already controlled by separatist Republics.
 

Simbo

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This plus a total embargo should happen.

But then I'll freeze to death here in Germany cause Merkel in her infinite wisdom decided to close all nuclear plants and be totally dependent on Russia for energy.
Just put a jumper on, do some starjumps (actual advice given by a UK energy supplier).
 

RoyH1

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confirmed!!

Now that's a big card to play. I think some of Putin's advisors should maybe talk to their boss about the long term economic consequences of this. Not that he listens to them of course
 

TMDaines

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Just watching Johnson lecture Putin about international law. Pot, kettle, black.
 

WPMUFC

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Oh shit!!! :nervous:

This may be an escalation from the confused talking points that came out from the Duma a few hours ago...not good!
 

VorZakone

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But "halting certification" sounds temporary. They're not exactly saying that they'll never certify it, are they?
 

Water Melon

before it dries out, eh
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But "halting certification" sounds temporary. They're not exactly saying that they'll never certify it, are they?
Putin is not going to be in charge forever. What Germany means is that the certification has been suspended due to Russia's actions. If Russia do not change their stance nor will Germany.
 

VorZakone

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Putin is not going to be in charge forever. What Germany means is that the certification has been suspended due to Russia's actions. If Russia do not change their stance nor will Germany.
Right. But I've heard the phrase "pull the plug" being used with regards to NS2. The pipeline is not going to get demolished or whatever, this is a temporary measure taken by Germany. I have no doubt that NS2 eventually will be certified and people will complain again about Russian energy.
 

africanspur

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As someone above posted, if they control Ukraine anyway, the difference it would make is minimal.
How would it be minimal? They still need European countries to actually buy their gas. You don't just magic up a market as big as Europe's in a short period of time.
 

Water Melon

before it dries out, eh
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Right. But I've heard the phrase "pull the plug" being used with regards to NS2. The pipeline is not going to get demolished or whatever, this is a temporary measure taken by Germany. I have no doubt that NS2 eventually will be certified and people will complain again about Russian energy.
Taking into account what Russia are doing, I doubt that NS2 will be certified anytime soon. Not until Putin is in charge of Russia. If the German government had any doubts over Putin's real motives, they have none now, everything is crystal clear.
 

TMDaines

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To answer that second tweet, no surprises…

The exhaustive list will likely be Russia, Syria, probably Nicaragua and Venezuela, then possibly Vanuatu and some other Oceanic microstates. Belarus might do so too, but they still don't recognise Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
 

TMDaines

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How would it be minimal? They still need European countries to actually buy their gas. You don't just magic up a market as big as Europe's in a short period of time.
But nobody, as of yet, is refusing to buy Russian gas. They are simply proposing to pull the plug on a project to construct a new pipeline than circumvents Ukraine.
 

Water Melon

before it dries out, eh
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I am so surprised. I guess Lukashenko is next. Then maybe a couple of countries in central Asia. And that's it.
I doubt any Central Asian country would do it. None of them recognized Crimea or Abkhazia as a part of Russia. It will be Belarus and that is it, it seems.
 

africanspur

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But nobody, as of yet, is refusing to buy Russian gas. They are simply proposing to pull the plug on a project to construct a new pipeline than circumvents Ukraine.
I agree but nothing has actually technically happened yet.

Also I don't think the thinking is that people will refuse to buy Russian gas, its that Russia may turn off the taps in response to sanctions.
 

Mihai

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But nobody, as of yet, is refusing to buy Russian gas. They are simply proposing to pull the plug on a project to construct a new pipeline than circumvents Ukraine.
NS2 was completed in September 2021.
 

Water Melon

before it dries out, eh
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But nobody, as of yet, is refusing to buy Russian gas. They are simply proposing to pull the plug on a project to construct a new pipeline than circumvents Ukraine.
They can not refuse to buy immediately. But make no mistake, they will look to diversify sources of supply further, while Russia is getting an important artery of its economy blocked.
 

Water Melon

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I agree but nothing has actually technically happened yet.

Also I don't think the thinking is that people will refuse to buy Russian gas, its that Russia may turn off the taps in response to sanctions.
If they do so, their economy will fall like a house of cards in a couple of months. Actually being disconnected from swift will cost them billions immediately.
 

TMDaines

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NS2 was completed in September 2021.
Sorry my wording could have been clearer. It is not yet operational and "they are simply proposing to pull the plug on finalising the new pipeline than circumvents Ukraine."
 

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
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I really don't get why Putin found it necessary to humiliate the head of a Russian intelligence agency. You'd think he doesn't wanna create resentment among the powerful people surrounding him.

English subs:

 

Smores

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If they do so, their economy will fall like a house of cards in a couple of months. Actually being disconnected from swift will cost them billions immediately.
No one is going to disconnect them from SWIFT any time soon. That's obviously not going to happen unless Russia turn off gas supplies to europe which isn't in their interests either.
 

The Firestarter

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No one is going to disconnect them from SWIFT any time soon. That's obviously not going to happen unless Russia turn off gas supplies to europe which isn't in their interests either.
If they roll into Kiev, there will be strong push for it to happen.