Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

frostbite

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,228
Lads lads, you’re just swallowing the western propaganda. Clearly.
Yes, absolutely!

Sarcasm aside, I do not understand what the "other side" wants. They don't propose anything clearly. For example, I say "Help Ukraine win, give them everything possible, arms, money, even F-16 if it is feasible". I complain for countries doing too little to help because I want Ukraine to win, I want Russia to lose, it is very clear, I am not hiding anything. It can happen if we help them, because US+UK+EU are so much stronger than Russia. It is only a question of how much help we are going to send, and how soon we send it. Do more! Do it faster!

But what does the other side want? They say things like "the Russians are winning", "we should accept reality", "we should not accept Ukrainian propaganda", "the sanctions are not doing anything", "western economies have been hit harder than the Russian economy". Okay, so what exactly do they want us to do? Do nothing and let Putin win? Stop helping Ukraine altogether and forget them? Or perhaps help Putin instead? Why not, if Putin is the future perhaps we should help him? (Because obviously, the "other side" is not asking for us to do more, for a full embargo, for the USAF to intervene, etc.)

Do you have any idea what exactly does the "other side" want?
 

alexthelion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
3,622
The messaging here (Russia), albeit not stated so directly, is that Putin has to take all of Ukraine at this point. First Donbas (which will likely fall by the end of June), then the north, then Lviv, with the aim to have the entire country 'taken' by October. Putin (via Peskov) keeps saying that the 3 core aims of this "special military operation" given by Putin prior to the invasion (destruction of the Azov Batallion, demilitarisation of Ukraine, and Ukrainian neutrality) have not changed, and – this part matters most – he has “no doubts that they will be accomplished in full” (he doesn’t say stuff like this if he doesn’t strongly believe it’s a foregone conclusion). The Azov Batallion have already surrendered, neutrality is basically assured at this point, which leaves only the trickiest one: demilitarisation. Since the US are at least saying they're committed for the long term, that means Putin needs Kiev (although literally an hour ago John Kirby at the Pentagon gave a press conference in which he said they need to be realistic about sending heavy weapons to Ukraine because "time is not on our side" - in other words, this looks like being over sooner rather than later, but I'm going to write more on that when I reply to an earlier post that was addressed to me about why I believe Ukraine can't win this war from here).

I've already stated my belief that there isn't going to be a meaningful counter-offensive (there is a massive disconnect between what Zelenskiy and Kuleba say in their rallying calls when addressing the likes of Davos or the American Senate, and what the actual generals on the ground like Zaluzhnyi are saying). Nowhere was this disconnect more pronounced than with the Azovstal fiasco. For months the powers that be in Ukraine and the West were building the Azov Batallion up as the bravest warriors who ever fought in battle (this despite their English Wikipedia page still to this day describing them as “a neo-Nazi unit of the National Guard of Ukraine”), issuing implacable assurances that they'll "never surrender" and would "only agree to an evacuation to a 3rd country".

There were some glaring problems with that narrative though, at least they were glaring to those of us who were closely observing the situation. While Zelenskiy and Kuleba were reassuring the Western democracies that their billions of dollars and euros were not being sent in vain, the "warriors" themselves and their families were criticising their own government...

https://censor.net/en/news/3339810/...t_watching_save_military_from_azovstal_marine

And begging (actually begging) everyone from Turkey's president...

https://news.yahoo.com/families-azov-fighters-ask-turkish-201138446.html

...to China's president...

https://news.yahoo.com/relatives-azovstal-works-defenders-ask-102818811.html

...to the Pope...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...appeal-pope-help-get-husbands-out-2022-05-11/

...to Elon frigging Musk...

https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainian-trapped-azovstal-begs-elon-musk-help-if-not-you-who-1705851

...to help "evacuate" them to safety.


That last plea, to Musk, was especially interesting because it was issued from the bowels of Azovstal by none other than Serhiy Volyna, commander of the much-feared 36th Marine Brigade, and he asked a very pertinent question to Elon Musk: "If not you, then who else can do it?" Excellent question Serhiy, and one that led us to a question that nobody in the Western media dared ask: why were these guys not begging the US government to help save them? Or the UK government? Or Zelenskiy himself? You know, people who claim to be ready to do whatever their "brave warriors" ask, and who actually COULD have saved them. These "heroes" (as Zelenskiy is keen to keep calling them) were reduced to begging the likes of Turkey, China and the Pope to save their lives and help them get to a 3rd country (instead, they've all been shipped off to Russian territory, which is exactly what they all - less than 3 weeks ago - vowed they'd never allow to happen).

That’s just one example from many I could give. Late last night Serhiy Haidai (governor of Luhansk) said the situation in the east is “dire” for Ukraine and said that they were outnumbered by 1 to 8 in terms of men and twice that in terms of equipment. Ukrainian commanders have also said that what they’ve been sent by the West is nowhere close to the kind of equipment they need to stand a chance of victory (this has been obvious from the beginning, the US and Europe is just sending them all the old crap they don't need anymore). Indeed earlier this month Zelenskiy issued an order that forbade the Ukrainian military from complaining on social media about the equipment they’re being given. And 2 days ago the BBC started noting that some people in Ukraine are starting to turn on Zelenskiy:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61570444

President Zelensky says that only diplomacy can end the war, but he has said that Russia must return to the positions it held before the invasion.

His allies, led by the US and UK, want to weaken Putin's Russia permanently. They have said Russia must not win.

Their critics say they'll fight to the last Ukrainian.

The currency of war is blood. As families bury their dead, more Ukrainians, like Mitri in Bakhmut, will question the blood price they are paying, and ask whether it is better to pay for a ceasefire with land - or lives.




And then of course you have the ludicrous spectacle of the EU bickering among themselves over how to legally circumvent their own sanctions so they can continue paying Russia for its oil and gas; the result of Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel being in the unfortunate habit of announcing grand plans without first taking 15 minutes to figure out how in the hell to make it all happen without crippling their own economies.

Long story short, there’s a growing sense in this part of the world that the war has reached a turning point (it happened around May 7th when the Russian army won the Battle of Popasna; things shifted after that and we started to hear desperation creeping into the words of the Ukrainian generals). I know there are still some folk here on this forum who believe the “40 billion to Ukraine” will be a game-changer, but it won’t be. Firstly, has anyone who thinks this money will make a significant difference actually read up on where exactly that 40 billion is being spent? Less than half of that sum (19 billion) is being spent on "military support for Ukraine" (the other 21 billion is for humanitarian relief, support for US forces in Europe, DOD modernization programmes, help for refugees, and so on). And even then the remaining 19 billion is carved up into smaller packages, such that ‘only’ 6 billion is for (I quote) “training, equipment, weapons, logistic support, supplies and services, salaries and stipends and intelligence support to the military and national security forces of Ukraine”. That’s it. The rest is for stuff like US weapons manufacturers to replenish their stocks. As John Kirby just said – time is not on Ukraine’s side here, and there’s a feeling that by the time what’s left of the Ukrainian army has been sent the weapons and trained to use them, it’ll effectively be 6 billion dollars down the drain.

My general point is, what I wrote earlier this week is still, to my mind, the most balanced interpretation of events. Unless all the people of the US, the UK and Europe are prepared to start bankrolling Ukraine to the tune of at least 7 billion euros a month (Zelenskiy’s figure) in the (ridiculous) belief that Russia is going to run out of artillery before the “40 billion” kicks in, then Ukraine can’t win this war. 3 months ago people in this thread were posting that “by June there will be nothing left of the Russian economy”. Well guess what, it’s now almost June and there is almost nothing left of the Ukrainian economy, because Russia has taken over 80% of it. People (well, one person, but I made sure to note it) said that by the summer Russians would be starving to death. Here we now are and the West is pretending to panic because they think Russia is about to starve the developing world to death. They said back in March that the Russian army would fall “in 3 weeks”. Here we now are and not a day goes by without Zelenskiy saying Ukraine will fall imminently unless America finally sends it proper weapons (never going to happen). Yet despite all of this there are still people here who seriously believe Ukraine is "winning" this war.

That’s my take. And again, I am intending to reply to those who replied to my earlier post (thank you to those who did) but it’s been a busy week for me and trying to write properly sourced opinions - as opposed to indiscriminately spamming tweets from Twitter nobodies - takes time. Full disclosure for what it’s worth, I live in the town of Pushkin, near St Petersburg, which is a military town, and is part of the reason why what I see with my own eyes does not in any way correlate to the Western narrative that was given in March and April about this war, I mean for example about how Russia’s “only tank factory” (I still laugh my arse off at that) can’t supply any more parts and so the army will collapse by the start of April, or that Putin is gravely ill with a coсktail of blood, bone, bowel, brain and bollock cancer. Yes, Russia made enormous mistakes at the start of this war, and Putin went into it with very bad intel, but he’s nothing if not extremely adaptable, he’s adapted, and he’s almost certainly going to win. A fiercely unpopular Russian viewpoint, I know, but nevertheless one that is based in reality rather than emotion. Emotion improves many things but decision making and critical thinking aren't among them.
:smirk:
 

Cloud7

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Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
12,832
This dude reads like he walked off one of those Russian TV shows we see clips of
 

Foxbatt

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Oct 21, 2013
Messages
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The messaging here (Russia), albeit not stated so directly, is that Putin has to take all of Ukraine at this point. First Donbas (which will likely fall by the end of June), then the north, then Lviv, with the aim to have the entire country 'taken' by October. Putin (via Peskov) keeps saying that the 3 core aims of this "special military operation" given by Putin prior to the invasion (destruction of the Azov Batallion, demilitarisation of Ukraine, and Ukrainian neutrality) have not changed, and – this part matters most – he has “no doubts that they will be accomplished in full” (he doesn’t say stuff like this if he doesn’t strongly believe it’s a foregone conclusion). The Azov Batallion have already surrendered, neutrality is basically assured at this point, which leaves only the trickiest one: demilitarisation. Since the US are at least saying they're committed for the long term, that means Putin needs Kiev (although literally an hour ago John Kirby at the Pentagon gave a press conference in which he said they need to be realistic about sending heavy weapons to Ukraine because "time is not on our side" - in other words, this looks like being over sooner rather than later, but I'm going to write more on that when I reply to an earlier post that was addressed to me about why I believe Ukraine can't win this war from here).

I've already stated my belief that there isn't going to be a meaningful counter-offensive (there is a massive disconnect between what Zelenskiy and Kuleba say in their rallying calls when addressing the likes of Davos or the American Senate, and what the actual generals on the ground like Zaluzhnyi are saying). Nowhere was this disconnect more pronounced than with the Azovstal fiasco. For months the powers that be in Ukraine and the West were building the Azov Batallion up as the bravest warriors who ever fought in battle (this despite their English Wikipedia page still to this day describing them as “a neo-Nazi unit of the National Guard of Ukraine”), issuing implacable assurances that they'll "never surrender" and would "only agree to an evacuation to a 3rd country".

There were some glaring problems with that narrative though, at least they were glaring to those of us who were closely observing the situation. While Zelenskiy and Kuleba were reassuring the Western democracies that their billions of dollars and euros were not being sent in vain, the "warriors" themselves and their families were criticising their own government...

https://censor.net/en/news/3339810/...t_watching_save_military_from_azovstal_marine

And begging (actually begging) everyone from Turkey's president...

https://news.yahoo.com/families-azov-fighters-ask-turkish-201138446.html

...to China's president...

https://news.yahoo.com/relatives-azovstal-works-defenders-ask-102818811.html

...to the Pope...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...appeal-pope-help-get-husbands-out-2022-05-11/

...to Elon frigging Musk...

https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainian-trapped-azovstal-begs-elon-musk-help-if-not-you-who-1705851

...to help "evacuate" them to safety.


That last plea, to Musk, was especially interesting because it was issued from the bowels of Azovstal by none other than Serhiy Volyna, commander of the much-feared 36th Marine Brigade, and he asked a very pertinent question to Elon Musk: "If not you, then who else can do it?" Excellent question Serhiy, and one that led us to a question that nobody in the Western media dared ask: why were these guys not begging the US government to help save them? Or the UK government? Or Zelenskiy himself? You know, people who claim to be ready to do whatever their "brave warriors" ask, and who actually COULD have saved them. These "heroes" (as Zelenskiy is keen to keep calling them) were reduced to begging the likes of Turkey, China and the Pope to save their lives and help them get to a 3rd country (instead, they've all been shipped off to Russian territory, which is exactly what they all - less than 3 weeks ago - vowed they'd never allow to happen).

That’s just one example from many I could give. Late last night Serhiy Haidai (governor of Luhansk) said the situation in the east is “dire” for Ukraine and said that they were outnumbered by 1 to 8 in terms of men and twice that in terms of equipment. Ukrainian commanders have also said that what they’ve been sent by the West is nowhere close to the kind of equipment they need to stand a chance of victory (this has been obvious from the beginning, the US and Europe is just sending them all the old crap they don't need anymore). Indeed earlier this month Zelenskiy issued an order that forbade the Ukrainian military from complaining on social media about the equipment they’re being given. And 2 days ago the BBC started noting that some people in Ukraine are starting to turn on Zelenskiy:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61570444

President Zelensky says that only diplomacy can end the war, but he has said that Russia must return to the positions it held before the invasion.

His allies, led by the US and UK, want to weaken Putin's Russia permanently. They have said Russia must not win.

Their critics say they'll fight to the last Ukrainian.

The currency of war is blood. As families bury their dead, more Ukrainians, like Mitri in Bakhmut, will question the blood price they are paying, and ask whether it is better to pay for a ceasefire with land - or lives.




And then of course you have the ludicrous spectacle of the EU bickering among themselves over how to legally circumvent their own sanctions so they can continue paying Russia for its oil and gas; the result of Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel being in the unfortunate habit of announcing grand plans without first taking 15 minutes to figure out how in the hell to make it all happen without crippling their own economies.

Long story short, there’s a growing sense in this part of the world that the war has reached a turning point (it happened around May 7th when the Russian army won the Battle of Popasna; things shifted after that and we started to hear desperation creeping into the words of the Ukrainian generals). I know there are still some folk here on this forum who believe the “40 billion to Ukraine” will be a game-changer, but it won’t be. Firstly, has anyone who thinks this money will make a significant difference actually read up on where exactly that 40 billion is being spent? Less than half of that sum (19 billion) is being spent on "military support for Ukraine" (the other 21 billion is for humanitarian relief, support for US forces in Europe, DOD modernization programmes, help for refugees, and so on). And even then the remaining 19 billion is carved up into smaller packages, such that ‘only’ 6 billion is for (I quote) “training, equipment, weapons, logistic support, supplies and services, salaries and stipends and intelligence support to the military and national security forces of Ukraine”. That’s it. The rest is for stuff like US weapons manufacturers to replenish their stocks. As John Kirby just said – time is not on Ukraine’s side here, and there’s a feeling that by the time what’s left of the Ukrainian army has been sent the weapons and trained to use them, it’ll effectively be 6 billion dollars down the drain.

My general point is, what I wrote earlier this week is still, to my mind, the most balanced interpretation of events. Unless all the people of the US, the UK and Europe are prepared to start bankrolling Ukraine to the tune of at least 7 billion euros a month (Zelenskiy’s figure) in the (ridiculous) belief that Russia is going to run out of artillery before the “40 billion” kicks in, then Ukraine can’t win this war. 3 months ago people in this thread were posting that “by June there will be nothing left of the Russian economy”. Well guess what, it’s now almost June and there is almost nothing left of the Ukrainian economy, because Russia has taken over 80% of it. People (well, one person, but I made sure to note it) said that by the summer Russians would be starving to death. Here we now are and the West is pretending to panic because they think Russia is about to starve the developing world to death. They said back in March that the Russian army would fall “in 3 weeks”. Here we now are and not a day goes by without Zelenskiy saying Ukraine will fall imminently unless America finally sends it proper weapons (never going to happen). Yet despite all of this there are still people here who seriously believe Ukraine is "winning" this war.

That’s my take. And again, I am intending to reply to those who replied to my earlier post (thank you to those who did) but it’s been a busy week for me and trying to write properly sourced opinions - as opposed to indiscriminately spamming tweets from Twitter nobodies - takes time. Full disclosure for what it’s worth, I live in the town of Pushkin, near St Petersburg, which is a military town, and is part of the reason why what I see with my own eyes does not in any way correlate to the Western narrative that was given in March and April about this war, I mean for example about how Russia’s “only tank factory” (I still laugh my arse off at that) can’t supply any more parts and so the army will collapse by the start of April, or that Putin is gravely ill with a coсktail of blood, bone, bowel, brain and bollock cancer. Yes, Russia made enormous mistakes at the start of this war, and Putin went into it with very bad intel, but he’s nothing if not extremely adaptable, he’s adapted, and he’s almost certainly going to win. A fiercely unpopular viewpoint, I know, but nevertheless one that is based in reality rather than emotion. Emotion improves many things but decision making and critical thinking aren't among them.
Don't you know that you can't say those kinds of things here? The international community is not the majority of the world you know. It's the white mostly Anglo-Saxon world. The rest don't count unless you are part of Europe. And that also the white Europe.
 

Water Melon

Guest
The messaging here (Russia), albeit not stated so directly, is that Putin has to take all of Ukraine at this point. First Donbas (which will likely fall by the end of June), then the north, then Lviv, with the aim to have the entire country 'taken' by October. Putin (via Peskov) keeps saying that the 3 core aims of this "special military operation" given by Putin prior to the invasion (destruction of the Azov Batallion, demilitarisation of Ukraine, and Ukrainian neutrality) have not changed, and – this part matters most – he has “no doubts that they will be accomplished in full” (he doesn’t say stuff like this if he doesn’t strongly believe it’s a foregone conclusion). The Azov Batallion have already surrendered, neutrality is basically assured at this point, which leaves only the trickiest one: demilitarisation. Since the US are at least saying they're committed for the long term, that means Putin needs Kiev (although literally an hour ago John Kirby at the Pentagon gave a press conference in which he said they need to be realistic about sending heavy weapons to Ukraine because "time is not on our side" - in other words, this looks like being over sooner rather than later, but I'm going to write more on that when I reply to an earlier post that was addressed to me about why I believe Ukraine can't win this war from here).

I've already stated my belief that there isn't going to be a meaningful counter-offensive (there is a massive disconnect between what Zelenskiy and Kuleba say in their rallying calls when addressing the likes of Davos or the American Senate, and what the actual generals on the ground like Zaluzhnyi are saying). Nowhere was this disconnect more pronounced than with the Azovstal fiasco. For months the powers that be in Ukraine and the West were building the Azov Batallion up as the bravest warriors who ever fought in battle (this despite their English Wikipedia page still to this day describing them as “a neo-Nazi unit of the National Guard of Ukraine”), issuing implacable assurances that they'll "never surrender" and would "only agree to an evacuation to a 3rd country".

There were some glaring problems with that narrative though, at least they were glaring to those of us who were closely observing the situation. While Zelenskiy and Kuleba were reassuring the Western democracies that their billions of dollars and euros were not being sent in vain, the "warriors" themselves and their families were criticising their own government...

https://censor.net/en/news/3339810/...t_watching_save_military_from_azovstal_marine

And begging (actually begging) everyone from Turkey's president...

https://news.yahoo.com/families-azov-fighters-ask-turkish-201138446.html

...to China's president...

https://news.yahoo.com/relatives-azovstal-works-defenders-ask-102818811.html

...to the Pope...

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...appeal-pope-help-get-husbands-out-2022-05-11/

...to Elon frigging Musk...

https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainian-trapped-azovstal-begs-elon-musk-help-if-not-you-who-1705851

...to help "evacuate" them to safety.


That last plea, to Musk, was especially interesting because it was issued from the bowels of Azovstal by none other than Serhiy Volyna, commander of the much-feared 36th Marine Brigade, and he asked a very pertinent question to Elon Musk: "If not you, then who else can do it?" Excellent question Serhiy, and one that led us to a question that nobody in the Western media dared ask: why were these guys not begging the US government to help save them? Or the UK government? Or Zelenskiy himself? You know, people who claim to be ready to do whatever their "brave warriors" ask, and who actually COULD have saved them. These "heroes" (as Zelenskiy is keen to keep calling them) were reduced to begging the likes of Turkey, China and the Pope to save their lives and help them get to a 3rd country (instead, they've all been shipped off to Russian territory, which is exactly what they all - less than 3 weeks ago - vowed they'd never allow to happen).

That’s just one example from many I could give. Late last night Serhiy Haidai (governor of Luhansk) said the situation in the east is “dire” for Ukraine and said that they were outnumbered by 1 to 8 in terms of men and twice that in terms of equipment. Ukrainian commanders have also said that what they’ve been sent by the West is nowhere close to the kind of equipment they need to stand a chance of victory (this has been obvious from the beginning, the US and Europe is just sending them all the old crap they don't need anymore). Indeed earlier this month Zelenskiy issued an order that forbade the Ukrainian military from complaining on social media about the equipment they’re being given. And 2 days ago the BBC started noting that some people in Ukraine are starting to turn on Zelenskiy:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61570444

President Zelensky says that only diplomacy can end the war, but he has said that Russia must return to the positions it held before the invasion.

His allies, led by the US and UK, want to weaken Putin's Russia permanently. They have said Russia must not win.

Their critics say they'll fight to the last Ukrainian.

The currency of war is blood. As families bury their dead, more Ukrainians, like Mitri in Bakhmut, will question the blood price they are paying, and ask whether it is better to pay for a ceasefire with land - or lives.




And then of course you have the ludicrous spectacle of the EU bickering among themselves over how to legally circumvent their own sanctions so they can continue paying Russia for its oil and gas; the result of Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel being in the unfortunate habit of announcing grand plans without first taking 15 minutes to figure out how in the hell to make it all happen without crippling their own economies.

Long story short, there’s a growing sense in this part of the world that the war has reached a turning point (it happened around May 7th when the Russian army won the Battle of Popasna; things shifted after that and we started to hear desperation creeping into the words of the Ukrainian generals). I know there are still some folk here on this forum who believe the “40 billion to Ukraine” will be a game-changer, but it won’t be. Firstly, has anyone who thinks this money will make a significant difference actually read up on where exactly that 40 billion is being spent? Less than half of that sum (19 billion) is being spent on "military support for Ukraine" (the other 21 billion is for humanitarian relief, support for US forces in Europe, DOD modernization programmes, help for refugees, and so on). And even then the remaining 19 billion is carved up into smaller packages, such that ‘only’ 6 billion is for (I quote) “training, equipment, weapons, logistic support, supplies and services, salaries and stipends and intelligence support to the military and national security forces of Ukraine”. That’s it. The rest is for stuff like US weapons manufacturers to replenish their stocks. As John Kirby just said – time is not on Ukraine’s side here, and there’s a feeling that by the time what’s left of the Ukrainian army has been sent the weapons and trained to use them, it’ll effectively be 6 billion dollars down the drain.

My general point is, what I wrote earlier this week is still, to my mind, the most balanced interpretation of events. Unless all the people of the US, the UK and Europe are prepared to start bankrolling Ukraine to the tune of at least 7 billion euros a month (Zelenskiy’s figure) in the (ridiculous) belief that Russia is going to run out of artillery before the “40 billion” kicks in, then Ukraine can’t win this war. 3 months ago people in this thread were posting that “by June there will be nothing left of the Russian economy”. Well guess what, it’s now almost June and there is almost nothing left of the Ukrainian economy, because Russia has taken over 80% of it. People (well, one person, but I made sure to note it) said that by the summer Russians would be starving to death. Here we now are and the West is pretending to panic because they think Russia is about to starve the developing world to death. They said back in March that the Russian army would fall “in 3 weeks”. Here we now are and not a day goes by without Zelenskiy saying Ukraine will fall imminently unless America finally sends it proper weapons (never going to happen). Yet despite all of this there are still people here who seriously believe Ukraine is "winning" this war.

That’s my take. And again, I am intending to reply to those who replied to my earlier post (thank you to those who did) but it’s been a busy week for me and trying to write properly sourced opinions - as opposed to indiscriminately spamming tweets from Twitter nobodies - takes time. Full disclosure for what it’s worth, I live in the town of Pushkin, near St Petersburg, which is a military town, and is part of the reason why what I see with my own eyes does not in any way correlate to the Western narrative that was given in March and April about this war, I mean for example about how Russia’s “only tank factory” (I still laugh my arse off at that) can’t supply any more parts and so the army will collapse by the start of April, or that Putin is gravely ill with a coсktail of blood, bone, bowel, brain and bollock cancer. Yes, Russia made enormous mistakes at the start of this war, and Putin went into it with very bad intel, but he’s nothing if not extremely adaptable, he’s adapted, and he’s almost certainly going to win. A fiercely unpopular viewpoint, I know, but nevertheless one that is based in reality rather than emotion. Emotion improves many things but decision making and critical thinking aren't among them.
Putin is not going to win. First of all, the news that we are reading are far from being real news. Especially when it comes to weapons and armoury that is being sent to Ukraine. In reality so much more is going on behind the scenes. Secondly, Russian economy is getting f..cked with each and every day. Again I can see many even non-civilian industry contracts being cancelled. Russia will not be able to pay interests on its bonds, thus it will be a technical default come July. Things will get much worse come autumn. Neighbouring states are f..cking scared of doing any serious business with Putin as well. Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan are floating away, while Azerbaijan is getting even more and more closer to Turkey. Parallel import (which is leading to increase of prices in Russia) will stop as soon as the USA say enough. No CIS country will risk getting disconnected from SWIFT and funding of international financial institutions. РЖД are fecked, Aeroflot is fecked, and once they start running out of critical spares, they will collapse. ВПК is done for as well, as there is no point in buying Sukhois, tanks or Sopkas without western components inside. When it comes to intelligence and reconaissance equipment Russia is decades behind technology-wise. We are talking about an industry that can not produce an automatic transmission for local cars, not even a fecking airbag. The only puppet that Putin has now is Lukashenko, the ruler of a country whose economy is pretty much on its last legs. No bloody way Putin wins this war and no bloody way he is supported from a military point of view by any other country bar Belarus. He is done. Let his daughter become the leader of Единая Россия and let him think that he can do whatever he wants. The rushist will be defeated.
 
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Water Melon

Guest
This dude reads like he walked off one of those Russian TV shows we see clips of
He really does. In reality, China is distancing itself away from Putin, Erdogan is as pro-NATO as possible, for now is just playing his game to make some gains. Bayraktars have inflicted HUGE losses on Russian forces and will continue to do so. Once import of Russian oil and gas by EU decreases further, rose tinted glasses will fall off and harsh reality kick in.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

YouOnlyLiveTwice

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
5,468
@DT12 You should put your thoughts and time into the thousands of civilians and soldiers killed in this war by that psychopat called putin, instead of spreading your side of the propaganda and debunking every little twitter message.

To make you happy, i would say Ukraine can't really win this war, too much damage has been done in terms of casualties and destruction of cities/infrastructure. The only thing they can do is defend their sovereignty and being their own decision makers in Ukraine's future, instead of some Putin puppet.
 

ThierryFabregas

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Putin is not going to win. First of all, the news that we are reading are far from being real news. Especially when it comes to weapons and armoury that is being sent to Ukraine. In reality so much more is going on behind the scenes. Secondly, Russian economy is getting f..cked with each and every day. Again I can see many even non-civilian industry contracts being cancelled. Russia will not be able to pay interests on its bonds, thus it will be a technical default come July. Things will get much worse come autumn. Neighbouring states are f..cking scared of doing any serious business with Putin as well. Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan are floating away, while Azerbaijan is getting even more and more closer to Turkey. Parallel import (which is leading to increase of prices in Russia) will stop as soon as the USA say enough. No CIS country will risk getting disconnected from SWIFT and funding of international financial institutions. РЖД are fecked, Aeroflot is fecked, and once they start running out of critical spares, they will collapse. ВПК is done for as well, as there is no point in buying Sukhois, tanks or Sopkas without western components inside. When it comes to intelligence and reconaissance equipment Russia is decades behind technology-wise. We are talking about an industry that can not produce an automatic transmission for local cars, not even a fecking airbag. The only puppet that Putin has now is Lukashenko, the ruler of a country whose economy is pretty much on its last legs. No bloody way Putin wins this war and no bloody way he is supported from a military point of view by any other country bar Belarus. He is done. Let his daughter become the leader of Единая Россия and let him think that he can do whatever he wants. The rushist will be defeated.
What's your background mate, the underlined would imply that you're Russian
 

Water Melon

Guest
What's your background mate, the underlined would imply that you're Russian
I am not a Russian citizen, but a native Russian speaker. I can just say that I am fairly well informed and there is no bloody way the rushist wins this war. The Russian industry is dead. The bunker gnome has lost it. He has no real support from outside world and his citizens are fleeing their country en masse. I am seeing tens of thousands Russian "tourists" in my hometown alone, and most of those that I talked to support the chief rushist's actions. Unbelievable.
 

harms

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I am not a Russian citizen, but a native Russian speaker. I can just say that I am fairly well informed and there is no bloody way the rushist wins this war. The Russian industry is dead. The bunker gnome has lost it. He has no real support from outside world and his citizens are fleeing their country en masse. I am seeing tens of thousands Russian "tourists" in my hometown alone, and most of those that I talked to support the chief rushist's actions. Unbelievable.
Where’s that if you don’t mind me asking? I thought that most that fled the country either oppose the war or, at least, don’t want to get involved into politics (which is a coward-ish cop put but to each their own).

Fleeing Russia because of the sanctions while supporting the war is yet another incredible twist in their already completely messed up logic.
 

Water Melon

Guest
Where’s that if you don’t mind me asking? I thought that most that fled the country either oppose the war or, at least, don’t want to get involved into politics (which is a coward-ish cop put but to each their own).

Fleeing Russia because of the sanctions while supporting the war is yet another incredible twist in their already completely messed up logic.
It is to the south of Russia in one of the Central Asian countries. You are right @harms . It looks like TV propaganda has done an incredible job of brainwashing the citizens minds. People who have relocated (majority think it is temporary and are considering to go back once the war is over and sanctions are lifted) believe that it is Zelenskyy who actually is in fault. Should have gone to Putin, made some concessions and avoided the war. "Now, because of this комика-хохла and fecking yankees the whole world is in mess". Unbloodybelievable. If you ever decide to relocate, let me know. I will help in any way I can. Things are very unlikely to get better anytime soon in Russia.
 

nimic

something nice
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And I'm all out of bubblegum.
Don't you know that you can't say those kinds of things here? The international community is not the majority of the world you know. It's the white mostly Anglo-Saxon world. The rest don't count unless you are part of Europe. And that also the white Europe.
Please take your unfounded victim complex and feck right off.
 

Paxi

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I don’t want to rattle anyone but there is no way in this conflict where Russia doesn’t get heard.

Let me make something clear; I’m anti war but there is obvious pretext for people of LNR, DNR. If you don’t recognise them then you don’t recognise Kosovo — you can’t have your cake and eat it.

Secondly, I have second/first hand experience from the front line. I have shown @harms pictures of my father whom was in GRU at the height of the two Chechen wars. He has relayed to me some very grim information but not what is being portrayed in the media.

Thirdly, someone that has served int the UK military myself, it’s absolutely fecking mental, to see this thread turn into a football forum thread where people are just throwing baseless accusations just because people have a difference of opinion.
 

GlastonSpur

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I don’t want to rattle anyone but there is no way in this conflict where Russia doesn’t get heard.

Let me make something clear; I’m anti war but there is obvious pretext for people of LNR, DNR. If you don’t recognise them then you don’t recognise Kosovo — you can’t have you cake and eat it.

Secondly, I have second/first hand experience from the front line. I have shown @harms pictures of my father whom was in GRU at the height of the two Chechen wars. He has relayed to me some very grim information but not what is being portrayed in the media.

Thirdly, someone that has served int the UK military myself, it’s absolutely fecking mental, to see this thread turn into a football forum thread where people are just throwing baseless accusations just because people have a difference of opinion.
What information?
 

Paxi

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What information?
That it’s extremely difficult (he described first Chechen war as very simple) and Russians take particular contempt to foreign fighters — see Ukrainians as just Russians but «упёртыми»
My dad has stressed to me that he has never seen such artillery fire.
 

Paxi

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What information?
He has also said that a lot of Russians whom just joined the army because (it’s relatively good) the pay.. in Russia. Absolutely no dissident in infantry forces as far as he could tell. I made an absolute mission to ask him about this. I did. He just said — it’s war!
 

Water Melon

Guest
I don’t want to rattle anyone but there is no way in this conflict where Russia doesn’t get heard.

Let me make something clear; I’m anti war but there is obvious pretext for people of LNR, DNR. If you don’t recognise them then you don’t recognise Kosovo — you can’t have your cake and eat it.

Secondly, I have second/first hand experience from the front line. I have shown @harms pictures of my father whom was in GRU at the height of the two Chechen wars. He has relayed to me some very grim information but not what is being portrayed in the media.

Thirdly, someone that has served int the UK military myself, it’s absolutely fecking mental, to see this thread turn into a football forum thread where people are just throwing baseless accusations just because people have a difference of opinion.
I have been in Luhanks and Donetsk many many times. What the orcs did there was horrible. Fecking horrible. Russia is fecked both mid-term and long-term, while Luhansk and Donetsk will be back within Ukranian borders. There is only one f..cking aggressor in this war and the chief rushist himself and his fecking army of orcs will be defeated. Everyone remembers the whole Ichkeria story and Grozny in particular, Georgia, the atrocities in Crimea. Some people still remember Holodomor. We have also seen and heard from Putin himself what he thinks of Ukraine as a country and Ukranians as a nation. Big middle finger to the cnut, and everyone who is supporting him knowingly.
 

Paxi

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I have been in Luhanks and Donetsk many many times. What the orcs did there was horrible. Fecking horrible. Russia is fecked both mid-term and long-term, while Luhansk and Donetsk will be back within Ukranian borders. There is only one f..cking aggressor in this war and himself and his fecking army or orcs will be defeated. Everyone remembers Ichkeria, Grozny, Georgia, the atrocities in Crimea. Some people still remember Holodomor. We have also seen and heard what Putin thinks of Ukraine as a country and Ukrnians as a nation. Big middle finger to the cnut, and everyone who is supporting him knowingly.
So this is unacceptable. Why are you referring to anyone as an orc?
 

Water Melon

Guest
So this is unacceptable. Why are you referring to anyone as an orc?
Because they are orcs. They are there to kill people for money. They are killing civilians for fun, raping both kids and elderlies, showing their true fecking nature of sadistic cruelty. I am absoultely sure that Ukranians consider them to be orcs and they know it first hand. Orcs being led by a rushist.
 

Paxi

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Because they are orcs. They are there to kill people for money. They are killing civilians for fun, raping both kids and elderlies, showing their true fecking nature of sadistic cruelty. I am absoultely sure that Ukranians consider them to be orcs and they know it first hand. Orcs being led by a rushist.
You do know you’re being deeply racist now? Just stop.
 

Paxi

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This is what happens in an echo chamber — racist shit.
 

Water Melon

Guest
You do know you’re being deeply racist now? Just stop.
Report me to the mods. I have lost around 30 people in this war, while my wife's cousin's 6 year old daughter was raped and her body burnt afterwards along with that of her grandmother by those orcs. Army of orcs being led by the chief rushist. They are there for money and cruelty. May they rest in pieces and eternal hell. I am not calling Russians orcs. Read it again. I am calling those soldiers orcs and their commander in chief is the rushist, head of orcs. @harms is Russian and to me he is an exceptionally good person.
 

Paxi

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Report me to the mods. I have lost around 30 people in this war, while my wife's cousin's 6 year old daughter was raped and her body burnt afterwards along with that of her grandmother by those orcs. Army of orcs being led by the chief rushist. They are there for money and cruelty. May they rest in pieces and eternal hell. IU am not calling Russians orcs. Read it again. I am calling those soldiers orcs and their commander in chief is the rushist, head of orcs. @harms is Russian and to me he is an exceptionally good person.
I have already reported you. You don’t get to call someone names just because you lost someone. I don’t call Germans Nazis. I don’t call every Irish person an IRA sympathiser. You don’t get to call Russians orcs. Not a single one. If you need educated on that then it’s fine.

Rushist as well? You’re fecking making yourself look incredibly dumb.
 

Water Melon

Guest
I have already reported you. You don’t get to call someone names just because you lost someone. I don’t call Germans Nazis. I don’t call every Irish person an IRA sympathiser. You don’t get to call Russians orcs. Not a single one. If you need educated on that then it’s fine.

Rushist as well? You’re fecking making yourself look incredibly dumb.
You are a dummy indeed. Now show me a post where I call all Russians orcs. My better half is Russian. My kids are half Russians. Yes, Putin is rushist. Rushism, Rashism, Russism, can look it all up on the internet. Here is a link to a wikipedia article.
 

Paxi

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Do you know that Russian o
You are a dummy indeed. Now show me apost where I call Russians orcs. My better half is Russian. My kids are half Russians. yes, Putin is rushist.
What the orcs did there was horrible
Did you not say that? Why are you referring to Russians as orcs?

Putins approval rating has absolutely sky-rocketed since the start of the special military operation. What I’m getting at, should every person whom remotely approves of Putin should be subjugated the same thing? I’ll not have it.

Don’t attack Russia, and Russian people. This is what it feels like. You’re creating a siege mentality.
 

carvajal

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I have been disconnected for a few days but from what I read Severodonetks is in a very complicated situation.
Its fall is predictable and falls under the "Russia can move forward but at a very high cost and not be able to maintain it for a long time" theory?
What's next? Retreat to Krematorks?
I also read that the Russians have learned and are now advancing in a very compact way, with lots and lots of troops, but it could mean that they have left the south a bit neglected?
 

onemanarmy

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Oh maybe like anyone would just stay out of anywhere. Do you realise how naive you sound?
Do you realise how brainwashed you sound?

Russia attacked a sovereign country. They are killing people. They are raping people. Putins approval rates are higher than ever.

feck them.
 

Cloud7

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Do you know that Russian o



Did you not say that? Why are you referring to Russians as orcs?

Putins approval rating has absolutely sky-rocketed since the start of the special military operation. What I’m getting at, should every person whom remotely approves of Putin should be subjugated the same thing? I’ll not have it.

Don’t attack Russia, and Russian people. This is what it feels like. You’re creating a siege mentality.
Absolutely, yes.