Russia's at it again

Organic Potatoes

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Normally one would say intefere in their shit as well but it's not easy. How do you interference in a country were the vast majority of the population gets their news from state broadcasts?
Use your buddies in the Gulf/ME to supplant natural gas delivery to Europe and raise oil production high enough it drives oil prices so low that in conjunction with sanctions the economy collapses.

The Cold War ver.2 fought with money instead of proxy wars in Asia.
 

Red Defence

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Vlad at it again...

  • Police reportedly did not want Navalny to be transported to the hospital, and relented only when the ambulance crew threatened to make a scene, according to Navalny's spokeswoman.
Of note: The "allergic reaction" is not Navalny's first physical ailment resulting from his advocacy. In 2017, a chemical attack on his face caused him to lose 80% of his vision in one eye, per his website.
Time for Putin to go. Come on Russia.
 

Raoul

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Time for Putin to go. Come on Russia.
He'd be playing with fire by "eliminating" Navalny (even if its through a suspicious poisoning) since he would become a martyr to the anti-government movement. I'm guessing that's why Putin has instead opted for containment over murder...until now that is.
 

Red Defence

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He'd be playing with fire by "eliminating" Navalny (even if its through a suspicious poisoning) since he would become a martyr to the anti-government movement. I'm guessing that's why Putin has instead opted for containment over murder...until now that is.
Sounds like someone tried to eliminate Navalny and Nemtsov was eliminated 4 years ago too. If this carries on there will never be an effective anti-government movement. Feel so bad for the Russian people.
 

Ultimate Grib

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You guys are viewing this from you western tinted specs. Despite the vicious oppression of the opposition in the capital, Putin enjoys vast levels of support over the whole of rural Russia. Its very much like Turkey with the recent votes his support can waver in St Peterburg and Moscow, I personally believe even there not enough to make him lose the cities, but in the rest of the country he reigns supreme.

His opression of the opposition is about the posture of invincibility its not because he needs to. Russians at home and abroad in the ex-Soviet states absolutely love him.
 

Raoul

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You guys are viewing this from you western tinted specs. Despite the vicious oppression of the opposition in the capital, Putin enjoys vast levels of support over the whole of rural Russia. Its very much like Turkey with the recent votes his support can waver in St Peterburg and Moscow, I personally believe even there not enough to make him lose the cities, but in the rest of the country he reigns supreme.

His opression of the opposition is about the posture of invincibility its not because he needs to. Russians at home and abroad in the ex-Soviet states absolutely love him.
His popularity is a house of cards that’s been built atop a regular dose of state sponsored propaganda. And besides, in an autocratic regime if someone comes to your house saying they are taking a poll about whether or not you support the dictator, what exactly are people incentived to say?
 

Foxbatt

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How many of you guys commenting here have actually gone to Russia? Putin is popular not because the public is scared of him. He gets criticised a lot for many reasons. He is popular because of the disasters of Yeltsin and how the west took everything from Russia. Putin brought some sort of order and a better life to Russia. So long as you are not an important public figure and you do not try to make a public protest against Putin you can slate him all you care and no one is interested.
In fact the communists are his biggest critics and openly do so . Of course they do not call him or address him as Putin in Russia. I mean the ordinary people call him as Vladimir Vladimirovich.
 

Ultimate Grib

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His popularity is a house of cards that’s been built atop a regular dose of state sponsored propaganda. And besides, in an autocratic regime if someone comes to your house saying they are taking a poll about whether or not you support the dictator, what exactly are people incentived to say?
I don't know if you've ever been to Russia but regardless of his autocratic way of running things its in no way a dictatorship where people can't express any anti-government sentiment in fear of punishment. Even if that would be the case his approval rating is expressed not just in the polls but it also translates at the same levels in votes which are done in secrecy. Furthermore I constantly interact with people of Russian origin in the ex-Soviet states and they absolutely love him. They truly believe there is no one else that would be able to replace him.

If the vast majority of the country was against him the elections margins would look very different even if some of it would be fixed.
 

Hanks

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Well, looks like the Western Media and Elite shot their load too early again, because if something will get RTs and Likes on Twitter, why wait for facts!!

Just the two occasions in the last few days:

Navalny's "poisoning"

https://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/2019/07/31/807723-vrachi-navalnogo

Toxicology test of Navalny came back....no traces of poison found. Wondering if Bill Browder will take down his tweets that got over 10k+ RTs and 20K likes?? Also, if Navalny was a politician in ANYWHERE in the West, he'd be immediately be labelled as racist and far-right, since he wants to terminate visa-free regime with Muslim central Asian countries and have attended many nationalists parades and even called people from the caucus "cockroaches".


Second fake news spread about Russia by Western media this week:









Yea, this supposed "Putin critic" , "pro-democracy" (McCain ass licker) young guy didn't die. It was his FATHER who died which has the same name as him. But don't let the facts get in their way!

For all the cries of Western media about "Russian disinformation", they are the masters of spreading disinformation about Russian internal affairs.

-------------------------------------------------------

Also hilarious how the same people who've most likely never been to Russia or spoke to a Russian and spent 2 years here making 100 tweet threads about the evil "Russians" controlling US and invading US democracy, think they know best what Russian people want.

The reason Putin is so popular in Russia is because of the Yeltsin feck-ups in the 90s where average life expectancy in Russia dropped to war-times and GDP was lower than that of the Netherlands, you could get mugged and murdered on the bus for not giving up your seat, complete lawless anarchy at times and he was just a total embarrassment who was pissed drunk most the time, making Russia laughing stock of the world as lots of Western multinationals including Mr. Browder looted Russia dry. Yeltsin militarily attacked his own parliament, but he was Western approved, so there were no concerns of "threats to democracy" and US did all they can to get him re-elected in 1996 with that infamous Times magazine cover laughing it up.

So yea, go study some history and talk to some people who actually have skin in the game and have experiences life there, so you can understand their POV better. When Putin eventually goes, Western-approved liberal democracy is one of the last things that'll replace it. Russia will either become further nationalist or possibly a return to socialism.
 

Red Defence

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It's funny how many of these journalists, activists and political figures are financed by American entities, yet no one cares to check about those facts. :D Very similar to how a lot of things happen in my country.

I'm in no way defending the oligarchy and the somewhat autocratic system in Russia, but in reality it's the only way that everything can exist in peace as it is right now. There are too many internal factors, which outsiders and especially Western people will never understand. Too much emotion is used when dealing with Russia and too little rationalism.

For what it's worth, Russia will never go back to socialism, it's more likely to bring back monarchy than communism, especially due to the nature of their ruling elite. However, a new civil war could of course change the whole trajectory that the country has taken under Putin. People should actually be thankful he is in charge and not some of the real war-hungry lunatics that are in strong government positions, because Russia is capable of causing serious damage to any country or alliance and the US know it, which is why they target the country so much.

By the way, my country has both suffered and being helped by Russia throughout history so it's easy for me to remain objective, though a lot of my compatriots find that extremely difficult.
 

Tarrou

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its kind of strange to be told we need to speak to people with skin in the game to understand their POV better

why is that exactly? oh yeah, the state has a stranglehold over the media and nobody has a clear picture what is going on there

I guess we should just stop talking about them then
 

Foxbatt

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I do not think anyone thinks that Russia is an open democracy. Of course not. But neither is Putin a Czar. He is not an all powerful man who can do whatever he wants to do. The people protest and he gives in. This has happened many times even this year.
If anyone has seen the mess they were in under Yeltsin( yes I have seen it) then maybe people may understand it better why the Russians love Putin. By the way he wanted to join NATO and Bill Clinton even said why not but the US establishment vetoed the idea. Maybe if they had been allowed to join this mess in the World may not be there now with Hillary Clinton as President instead of Trump.
 

Ultimate Grib

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its kind of strange to be told we need to speak to people with skin in the game to understand their POV better

why is that exactly? oh yeah, the state has a stranglehold over the media and nobody has a clear picture what is going on there

I guess we should just stop talking about them then
Because you're not getting an accurate assesment of Russia via the Western media.

I don't know how many people here went to the World Cup but every single person I have spoken to said to me they have made a 180 U-turn in all their opinions and pre-concieved notions of the country and the people. Notions burned into their brains by the Western media.

Like Foxbatt says Putin is the Messiah for them after Yeltsin. Look at where they were when he was in charge and how far Putin has brought them. That and the sense of national pride, mostly because they are marginalised by the west, is why they will never stop loving Putin.
 

Hanks

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Can’t read the link, it’s in Russian. Do you speak Russian?

Whether or not he was poisoned is debatable but would you honestly expect them to admit that he was poisoned if he had been.
Yes. I went there in 2015 alone (very suspicious and scared, same mindset as most people here) only knowing DA and NYET and came back after 2 weeks absolutely in love with the country, the culture and the people and since then started learning Russian. Was also there for the WC of course which was unforegettable.

Putin gains NOTHING from eliminating Navalny. He's nowhere near popular or threatening enough for Putin to risk an international quagmire by having him dead. Navalny ends up 30 days in jail every year for organizing unsanctioned rallies and rinse and repeat. been the case for the last few days. In fact, Moscow just APPROVED an opposition rally for this coming Saturday. Putin loses a hell lot more if Navalny somehow dies. At least at this point of time.

Same with Nemstov...Do you really think the seasoned statesman and ex-intelligent officer Putin is that stupid to have a critic assassinated by 4 gunshots literally right in front of the Kremlin?! It was done by Kadyrov and his stooges...now that's one person I actually think Putin may be afraid of, and hence why he keeps him so close and gives him so much autonomy to do as he pleases in Chechnya and opening up the biggest mosque in Europe in Moscow to appease to him.

Despite being a "strongman" with autocratic tendencies, not every single person in Russia that dies is of Kremlin's orders. Average male life expectancy in Russia is around 65 years (75 for women) and around 71 total (there are a lot more women than men in Russia) and it's mostly due to alcohol. In height of Yeltin's mess the total average life expectancy of both genders dropped to 64 !!!

its kind of strange to be told we need to speak to people with skin in the game to understand their POV better

why is that exactly? oh yeah, the state has a stranglehold over the media and nobody has a clear picture what is going on there

I guess we should just stop talking about them then
Yea, imagine some dude called Oleg from Novosibirsk on a Russian forum who's never been to Canada and doesn't speak English claiming he knows what's best for Canadians and how they should overthrow the evil Trudeau regime.

As for the bolded part, no state media can overcome barriers of technology. I talk to Russians EVERYDAY through language exchange apps, from all walks of life and different cities as west as Kaliningrad to east as Vladivostok...everyone has access to the Internet, trust me...and no, not all of them are hardcore Putin lovers.

And as for how no one having a clear picture of what's going on there...you go to ALS Office on Yonge and St. Clair and get a Russian visa within a week and go visit yourself :) ....that's what I did 4 years ago.

Also Russia is significantly relaxing its visa regime and opening up starting 2021 introducing e-visas for EU citizens....but no changes for Yanks, Canadians and Brits :D
 

2cents

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Russia is significantly relaxing its visa regime and opening up starting 2021 introducing e-visas for EU citizens....but no changes for Yanks, Canadians and Brits
That’s great to hear.
 

Tarrou

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@Hanks I am in agreement with most of what you're saying to be honest (fwiw I have been to Russia).

but if we need to go there to find out for ourselves it sort of insinuates the country lacks some of the freedoms that we're accustomed too, doesn't it?