One of the impressive things about him that people tend to forget is that he went to Madrid and started getting different sort of goals, too. Generally being easier on the eye to. Even in his time here I remember him being quietly criticized for not doing enough of other number 9 duties like hold up play etc and he came back more complete the season after.
Ruud Van Nistelrooy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Henry was a better player, even if it does pain me to say it as a massive Ruud fan.
His consistency was crazily good too, he got way more assists and scored a greater variety of goals. Ruud scored one out of 150 from outside the box, whereas Henry could score from anyway and create goals from nothings.
What our current team misses the most is a striker like RVN. I don't think he's ever been replaced unless we sign haaland.
Agreed. While he wasn't as quick as he was at his earlier days in United, I feel he became a better player at Madrid. Like you mentioned he scored a few more worldies and while his hold up play was always excellent he managed to add a bit of skill to it.
Ruud will probably go down as one of the most underrated players ever because he never played in an iconic team. If he was in our 99-01/06-09 team or Madrid of 98-02/14-18, he would be rated much higher.
For those who hadn't noticed, there is a separate thread with and about the full interview:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rio...istiano-sir-alex-and-arsenal-incident.461520/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/rio...istiano-sir-alex-and-arsenal-incident.461520/
Agree with this, Henry was just a notch above and was dominant in multiple attacking zones.
If I recall correctly, Henry didn’t have as good a record in the CL (at least for Arsenal). Ruud was very dominant in the CL too.
Ruud’s time with us coincided with a period of lesser success for Fergie (vs the period before and the period after) and many people pointed to his limitations as a No 9 that contributed to it.
To till this day, I am not sure whether it was him or we were just a team in transition and had he stayed few more years, we would have had the same or more success than we did.
Ruud’s time with us coincided with a period of lesser success for Fergie (vs the period before and the period after) and many people pointed to his limitations as a No 9 that contributed to it.
To till this day, I am not sure whether it was him or we were just a team in transition and had he stayed few more years, we would have had the same or more success than we did.
Yeah, Henry was the best player in the league, ever. Or maybe 2nd if we consider Ronaldo was as good.
Henry was such a complete player, scored goals, created chances and dribbled past players with ease. He was very quick too. Also he scored some ridiculous individual goals dribbling past players and from outside the box.
You could say his replacement was actually someone like Saha, Nani or Tevez because we sold him so we could get Rooney and Ronaldo part of a dynamic, rapid front 3, instead of having RvN as the focal point.
But yeah, in terms of an out and out striker, we’ve only had someone of RvN’s quality for two seasons since he left - Rooney 2011-12 and RvP 2012-13. We do need a new striker, preferably Haaland.
I think so as well. I remember being so intransigent when it came to the Van Nistilrooy Vs Henry debate, as were many United fans. But Henry was always more well rounded and led the league in goals and assists at one point.
Van Nistelrooy was in the discussion for the best striker on the planet, while Henry was in the discussion for the best player on the planet and nobody besides Ronaldinho was ahead of Henry at that point in time.
My second favourite player of all time behind Scholes. I just loved how predatory he was. That feeling of knowing he could score at any time in any game irregardless of if he was playing well or not.
A proper centre forward. He only scored one goal outside of the box for us! He held the ball up well, technically he was sound and he was no slouch either!
It’s a shame how the game has evolved and we aren’t seeing those types of players coming through as much anymore.
A proper centre forward. He only scored one goal outside of the box for us! He held the ball up well, technically he was sound and he was no slouch either!
It’s a shame how the game has evolved and we aren’t seeing those types of players coming through as much anymore.
The Van Nistelrooy of 2001 - 2003 was arguably one of the best players in the world at the time. His goals v Arsenal away and Fulham shows he wasn't just a tap in merchant. He dragged that team to a title in 2003.
I think his injury problems started to catch up with him after that and he was never quite the same player.
He was ultimately moved on because our style of play was changing but the Ruud of those first two seasons would have walked into that United side of 2006/2007 - 2009.
I think his injury problems started to catch up with him after that and he was never quite the same player.
He was ultimately moved on because our style of play was changing but the Ruud of those first two seasons would have walked into that United side of 2006/2007 - 2009.
Peak Ruud 2001-2003 in his physical prime was fecking immense. Probably the best striker in the world. The best finisher IMO the club have had the last 40 years.
The way he used play off the shoulder and make short, explosive, clever runs in behind and get on the end of balls before smacking it in with unnerving accuracy into the bottom corner of the net was incredible. An art form.
He's a big lad. I agree the ankle injuries post 2003 took that physical edge away from him.
Tbf he adjusted and his all round game slightly improved. And he never lost that single-mindedness in front of goal. Natural goalscorer.
I never pass up a chance to rewatch this beauty
100%.
We need a RVN and perhaps no one knows that more than his old strike partner. Ole has to make the Haaland deal happen. It just makes too much sense imo.
He was a perfect box target man. Our best 9 since Law and Taylor.
Yeah it took me a while to admit it too. Ruud was amazing in 2003 when he scored in the last 10 games in a row, which included Arse away, Real home and away etc...
Agree with roonster, Henry was probably the greatest prem player.
Jippy was just mentioning the Arsenal goal and I agree. It was the goal at Highbury in the 2-2 draw, where he headed the ball to Giggs and nutmegged an Arsenal defender with the outside of his boot to race clear, before chipping their keeper.
The Fulham goal was obviously sensational as well and he had a great goal against West Ham in the cup in the same season.
As you said, he almost dragged United to the title in that run-in. Scholes and Giggs were also white hot at the right time as well.
Agree with this.
There's no-one in the history of the Premier league I'd more want a chance to fall to.
Henry had more to his game, but wasn't a better finisher.
People forget that Van Nistelrooy often played as a lone striker, in a period in between two of our great teams, yet was still putting in 40 goal seasons.
Heck, we think Martial and Rashford are doing well if they score 15-20 a season now!
was gutting seeing him do his knee in and and not signing for us in year 2000.
Another interesting point to make is this was all in the middle of Fergie trying to move the side away from a traditional 442.
If he'd been part of a truly "great" and settled United side, he would have scored even more.
He joined when the 99 team was on its last legs while Arsenal was on the rise. Without him we probably wouldn't even had challenged.
Agreed.
Someone in a earlier post alluded to the fact that Henry was 'faster' which he was, but he also had flair in abundance and was dominant playing centrally and in the channels due to his pace and superior skillset.
Believe it or not, I was happy RVN was sold because at the time my argument was we needed a player who would make us more fluid in attack. And selling RVN made Ronaldo a even more dangerous player, and our attack unpredictable due to the interchangability among the forwards. For me RVN was too, one dimensional as a pure box striker.
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Great striker. Henry was better.
Jesus, you know when your mind rewrites history, but i just googled and seen that Van Nistelrooy won just ONE league title in his time with us. He's one of my favourite United striker's ever for his ruthlessness and just how much of an amazing finisher he was. I could have sworn we won like three league titles with him.
We probably would have but our keepers then were mediocre to say the least.
One of my favourite strikers for United ever. Loved the guy.
How many more goals would this guy have scored for us if Beckham had stayed for longer ? We can only speculate but would it have made a big difference ?
He joined us when we had just won the 3rd of three consecutive titles with 4 matches to spare, absolutely dismantling everyone in English football and winning the title in 3rd gear.
@Adnan summed it up well. Football is about the collective and as great as Ruud was, we weren't necessarily at our most fluid with him in the side. Having said that, a lot of factors in United's stagnation in the following had nothing to do with Ruud. Experimenting with 4-4-1-1, Stam's book and subsequent departure all played a role.
Great player a little unlucky that in his first season our defence was a shambles that quite often had blanc/silvestre at its heart. We signed Rio in the summer and won the title with ruuds goals and a much more solid backline, the season after was the one where rio got his 8 month missed Drug test ban and our defence was a shambles without rio in it again probably cost us the title.
He started to struggle with injuries the season after and he was never quite the same player although still a very good poacher. In the first three season he would run the channels get involved in the build up, run at players, after his injury problems he basically stayed in the box and waited for the chances.
He was an absolute world class CF in those first three seasons who was let down by the fact our defence was pretty poor at the time.
He started to struggle with injuries the season after and he was never quite the same player although still a very good poacher. In the first three season he would run the channels get involved in the build up, run at players, after his injury problems he basically stayed in the box and waited for the chances.
He was an absolute world class CF in those first three seasons who was let down by the fact our defence was pretty poor at the time.
Winning three on the trot usually signifies a huge rebuild is imminent. The season he joined we lost Stam, Johnsen, Irwin and Cole. That is more than half the 99 team first XI if you count Schmeichel who left after 99 and Yorke who was sold 1 year later. We also had Keane who was on the wrong side of 30 and had a hip operation in the same period.
We were a team in decline while Arsenal was on the rise. In his 3rd year with us they peaked with The Invincibles.
He probably wasn't the right fit for us once Rooney and Ronaldo started stepping up, but in the first 3 years he absolutely carried us, both in the league and in Europe.
Goal machine, trusted him with a chance more than any other forward, even Ronado.
Gutted we didnt win a Champions League with him in 2002, that was peak times.
Gutted we didnt win a Champions League with him in 2002, that was peak times.
Not much. In his first season, Beckham assisted Ruud 3 times. In Ronaldo's first season with Ruud, he assisted him 3 times. Yet somehow Ronaldo is remembered almost as his nemesis, while Beckham was his ultimate partner. Pure myth. Giggs was a much more productive partner for Ruud, Yorke was a much more productive partner for Beckham.
In Ruud's first season we scored 87 league goals, then 74, then 64, then 58 and finally in his last season 72. That low of 58 goals in 04/05 came mostly without Ruud, but the 64 goal season in 03/04 was our worst goalscoring return in PL history at that point. In the same season we conceded just 26 goals, our (joint-)best defensive record in PL history at that point.
Our attack with van Nistelrooy was worse than the 5 years prior and the 5 years after. The way he played was clearly a part of that.
I disagree, Ruud was a player who could play in a collective. The problem was that the collective was already showing signs of weakness, and if there is one thing that marks Fergusons superiority over all other managers, it’s that he would not be afraid of breaking up a great team to build anew when signs of decay started showing.
He saw we were stagnating in Europe, Yorke (heavily) and Cole (slightly) were regressing, Beckham was losing just the necessary bit of focus, Stam looked like he might have lost a yard, replacing Schmeichel was proving difficult and 4-4-2 was proving vulnerable in Europe.
Coming into a team with set relations is often difficult, and Veron, showed this, whereas Ruud adapted brilliantly. He combined cery effectively with Giggs, Solskjær and Scholes, masking a lot of the troubles we had getting the defense and playing style sorted.
What a player Ruud was, I can’t imagine how much we would have to pay for a player of his quality today! 100-150 million perhaps?
So clinical in front of goal and a born winner, if I recall correctly we were going to buy him the year before but he had a bad knee injury, thankfully we persisted and kept the faith in him, that was a good choice!
So clinical in front of goal and a born winner, if I recall correctly we were going to buy him the year before but he had a bad knee injury, thankfully we persisted and kept the faith in him, that was a good choice!
We conceded 36 goals in 03/04. We were top of the table when Rios ban started and then conceded 15 goals in 8 games immediately afterwards after conceding only 14 in the previous 20 and dropped 13 points in the process, we never recovered from that run, you may have a point about not scoring enough goals that season but ultimately it was our shambolic defending in that run that cost us any chance of the title.
The season we scored 87 goals we had Solskjaer who scored 17 goals in the league. The following season he had 9 and 0 in 03/04 when he got a career ending injury. Our second choice striker that season was Forlan. Saha came in during the Jan transfer window. Overall it was a tough year of transition for us. We had 7 new signings and apart from Saha pretty much every one of them were poor.
By comparison the much heralded Invincibles also scored their lowest tally in that 3 years. They scored 73 goals (9 more than us). The year before they had 85 and then 79.
It could just be a low scoring year in PL. To blame it solely on Ruud is pretty unfair on him.
He will be the manager of our second team next season who play in the second division after managing our under 19s which he did excellent by all accounts. Maybe someday he’ll manage us or United.
It is annoying, but having watched RVN score so many wonderful goals for us, the lasting image that stays with me of the Dutchman was of him walking back after missing the penalty he had won against Arsenal in the dying mins of the game that was like a battle, and the uproar that followed with Martin Keown.
Great striker though one of the best I've seen in watching United for over sixty years.
Great striker though one of the best I've seen in watching United for over sixty years.