RVP

elmo

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I absolutely do rate RVP's first season with us, literally on the last page I said it was 'one of the four or five great individual seasons for us in the PL years'. It doesn't change the fact that I believe we'd have been better off buying in another position. When we were going into that transfer window absolutely nobody was saying that we needed to buy a striker. Hell, we scored four times in the game that cost us the title.



Hernandez barely played in the last two months of the season, in no way was he what cost us the title. So answer me this, why, after seven consecutive seasons of getting more than 80 points (and following on directly from one where we got 89) would we suddenly drop below that figure? People have bought so hard into this glorious legend of RVP riding in on a white horse and saving us from mediocrity, but fundamentally we barely improved after he signed. And, not unimportantly, we got a lot worse soon after.

I may as well literally say it, seeing as even hinting in this direction draws intense ire: signing Robin Van Persie was a mistake.
:lol::lol::lol:
 

Chabon

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Your argument that we would have performed exactly the same, scored equal amount of goals, basically remained competitive, and therefore do not need RVP, absolutely holds no water. This is not FM, this is real life Football Management. It is very rare that you’d see a team play the exact same tactics with the same personnel in multiple years and still remained competitive.
The point of the comparison I made between the two seasons, which you seem to have been wilfully misunderstood, is that signing Robin Van Persie barely improved us at all. If you disagree, tell me what were the exact areas of improvement between the seasons? RVP was personally excellent, but we as a team stood still. Hell, we even replicated the late season stumble from the year before, it just didn't matter this time cause we were so much further ahead. We weren't better, City were worse. Surely a big money signing should improve a team? That's my point: RVP was a great performer for us (at least to begin with), but he was the wrong player for us in the wrong position.

You mentioned Berbatov, and that's probably the most telling comparison. Berbatov had a roughly similar United career to Van Persie; one great season where his goals were a key factor in winning the title, and a couple of other ones where he was good but rarely great. Yet hardly anyone would think it laughable if you said that signing him was a mistake, and that there were far better options for us in the summer we bought him.
 

Stacks

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Probably one of the best individual performances of a United forward. In the league alone, 26 goals and 15 assists shows he wasn't completely selfish as well. He was better than Aguero (that season at least) which is saying something
 

thepolice123

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The point of the comparison I made between the two seasons, which you seem to have been wilfully misunderstood, is that signing Robin Van Persie barely improved us at all. If you disagree, tell me what were the exact areas of improvement between the seasons? RVP was personally excellent, but we as a team stood still. Hell, we even replicated the late season stumble from the year before, it just didn't matter this time cause we were so much further ahead. We weren't better, City were worse. Surely a big money signing should improve a team? That's my point: RVP was a great performer for us (at least to begin with), but he was the wrong player for us in the wrong position.

You mentioned Berbatov, and that's probably the most telling comparison. Berbatov had a roughly similar United career to Van Persie; one great season where his goals were a key factor in winning the title, and a couple of other ones where he was good but rarely great. Yet hardly anyone would think it laughable if you said that signing him was a mistake, and that there were far better options for us in the summer we bought him.
I didn't misunderstood it. You're the one who hasn't been replying to posts in its entirety and cherry picking points.

Using league points between seasons as a measure of a forward’s impact is just utterly silly. Have you looked our points before and after Yorke, Cole and Ruud signed? What about Drogba for Chelsea? Or De Bruyne the season City won the league without him playing for most parts?
Go look it up, go.

And please tell me he was not an improvement from Hernandez and Welbeck.

I know you're going to do the predictable thing and say RVP only had one good season after this. All I can say is its not his fault Fergie retired.
 

DRM

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I met him at an industry conference last September in amsterdam. He was quite busy but still took the time to shake my hand and even pose in a selfie with me. Top lad.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Really good and could be one of the best ever at a lesser club for 12/13 season but United have too high of a standard of previous strikers so he didn't do it for long enough. In Fergie's time he wouldn't be in the top 5, would struggle for top 10 all-time.
 

amolbhatia50k

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  1. RVN
  2. Rooney
  3. RVP
That would be my picks as far as United strikers go. RVN and Rooney are essentially interchangeable in many ways. Rooney has longevity, versatility and at the end of the day, success. He was here through some of our greatest moments, even moreso than the likes of Ronaldo, he was a consistent cog of the terrific wheel. RVN will always be my pick for lead striker at United. He was just a goalscoring phenomenon. In a way I'd love to have seen these two grow together at United. They'd have been quite an incredible striking pair if they both came through with coinciding peaks in the late 90s. But alas, Rooney was there to form a partnership with Ronaldo nevertheless.

RVP was in his pomp pure poetry in motion. Elegence, technique and a joy to watch. And his half season is up there with the best. But ultimately he had a tendancy to miss the odd chance moreso than RVN and it was just a half season. RVN was better IMO and I pick him without a shadow of a doubt. So yeah that's my order of post 2001 strikers at United.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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Where would the fans put RVP in Fergie's last year? How good was he compared to past strikers?
He was terrific for 75 percent of the season,but I think he had a long dry spell from about January to the end of March.But all in all,he had a magnificent season although in my view he wasn’t as outstanding as Ronaldo in 08,or Rooney in 2010...
 

Chabon

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I didn't misunderstood it. You're the one who hasn't been replying to posts in its entirety and cherry picking points.
Im not cherry picking anything, I only quote the pertinent point of a post to avoid clogging the page up. There's a whole paragraph in your quote there about Berbatov, for example. And you didn’t answer my question, so I’ll repeat it: what were the exact areas of improvement between the seasons? Not was RVP a better number 9 individually than Welbeck and Chicharito (obviously that's the case), in what ways did the team improve?
 

Josh 76

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When the question is asked.
How good was a player ? It needs to be made a bit more clear.

If your looking at how many season's he performed well for, what he won, etc.....then RVP would not make the top 5.

If you are going on pure ability , impact, goals in that season only, what they won that season.
Then for me RVP is good as anyone.
 

matherto

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I loved him. That season imo, he was best no9 in Europe.
My favourite goal was;

That technique is just wow. (and Giggsy's assist is not that bad either ;) )
Probably my favourite first touch ever. It's perfect. :drool:
 

thepolice123

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Im not cherry picking anything, I only quote the pertinent point of a post to avoid clogging the page up. There's a whole paragraph in your quote there about Berbatov, for example. And you didn’t answer my question, so I’ll repeat it: what were the exact areas of improvement between the seasons? Not was RVP a better number 9 individually than Welbeck and Chicharito (obviously that's the case), in what ways did the team improve?
I did answer your question, and I even posted a video and explained the significance of his goals. You were simply too preoccupied with banging on about the league points to showcase why Van Persie was the wrong transfer and that the 11/12 team was good enough to win the league the following season. The season Ruud came, we actually finished with lesser points and 3rd in the league. Our 07/08 team scored 9 goals and 2 points lesser in the league. Does that mean the 11/12 had a better attack than all of them?


Some of the goals include:

Opener, 87th minute equaliser and last minute winner against Southampton away

Winner against Liverpool away

Opener against Arsenal

Winner against West Ham and Reading

Last minute winner against City away :devil:

Equaliser against Newcastle

Opener against Liverpool at Home

Hat-trick against Villa to seal the title

And its not like he was stat padding against minnows. All these games we were in trouble of slipping away. And we haven’t even talk about the 15 assists he provided.
Just by being a world class forward and a massive upgrade from Hernandez and Welbeck is not improvement to the team? You’re way over your head mate. And its not like he delivered a mere decent performance. He was scoring and assisting shitloads.

Just because we didn’t sign a midfielder like Modric does not automatically qualify the RVP transfer as the wrong one. Two transfer decisions should be kept separate. Fergie signed Kagawa and made the choice not to go for a CM. The following season we actually spent 64m on Fellaini and Mata - in case you’re going to do the predictable thing and say we spent whatever funds we got on RVP.
 
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Kag

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For a period of around two years, part-Arsenal and part-United, I think he was the best #9 in Europe (apart from the obvious pair).

I remember the game we played against Madrid at the Bernabeu; he missed a big chance. But his hold-up play that game was imperious. Up there with the best I can remember watching.

An inspired signing, ultimately.
 

RUCK4444

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For a period of around two years, part-Arsenal and part-United, I think he was the best #9 in Europe (apart from the obvious pair).

I remember the game we played against Madrid at the Bernabeu; he missed a big chance. But his hold-up play that game was imperious. Up there with the best I can remember watching.

An inspired signing, ultimately.
For that period you mention he was the best no 9 in world football.

He was incredible, very rare you come across a player you 100% expect to score in every game.

His peak was nothing short of sensational.

Edit: Thinking on it there are very few players I would bring back ahead of him.
 
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Chabon

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Our 07/08 team scored 9 goals and 2 points lesser in the league. Does that mean the 11/12 had a better attack than all of them?
The 07/08 side won the European Cup, I would consider that a relevant factor when comparing the two.

The season Ruud came, we actually finished with lesser points and 3rd in the league.
Yeah, and we won feck all most of the years Ruud was here, and not a one of the teams he played in is considered one of our great sides. His time at the club coincides with the Fergie's worst years in the PL, which, interestingly enough, leads to this:

Just by being a world class forward and a massive upgrade from Hernandez and Welbeck is not improvement to the team?
Ruud Van Nistelrooy was a much better player than Louis Saha by all accounts, yet Fergie decided to sack the former off for the latter and we became a much better side. Having better players doesn't automatically make you a better side, ask the galacticos.

I did answer your question, and I even posted a video and explained the significance of his goals.
All you did was show how good RVP himself was, I'm not disputing that, he was, individually, excellent. But I'll ask again, in what way was the team better after RVP joined. Did we score more goals? Did we play better football? Did we win more games?
 

Josh 76

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The 07/08 side won the European Cup, I would consider that a relevant factor when comparing the two.



Yeah, and we won feck all most of the years Ruud was here, and not a one of the teams he played in is considered one of our great sides. His time at the club coincides with the Fergie's worst years in the PL, which, interestingly enough, leads to this:



Ruud Van Nistelrooy was a much better player than Louis Saha by all accounts, yet Fergie decided to sack the former off for the latter and we became a much better side. Having better players doesn't automatically make you a better side, ask the galacticos.



All you did was show how good RVP himself was, I'm not disputing that, he was, individually, excellent. But I'll ask again, in what way was the team better after RVP joined. Did we score more goals? Did we play better football? Did we win more games?
The league was won by 10 or so points.
The team defo down tooled after it was officially won. If those games meant so much, I'm sure the stats would be different.
 

thepolice123

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The 07/08 side won the European Cup, I would consider that a relevant factor when comparing the two.
More goals and points than 06/07 and 09/10 too. You want more straws to clutch?

Yeah, and we won feck all most of the years Ruud was here, and not a one of the teams he played in is considered one of our great sides. His time at the club coincides with the Fergie's worst years in the PL, which, interestingly enough, leads to this:


Ruud Van Nistelrooy was a much better player than Louis Saha by all accounts, yet Fergie decided to sack the former off for the latter and we became a much better side. Having better players doesn't automatically make you a better side, ask the galacticos.
Ruud fell out with the club and his competition was Saha who would be a massive upgrade for the 11/12 team too. RVP’s was Hernandez and Welbeck. You’re seriously making a comparison.

The last three season Ruud had with us coincided with The Invincibles and Mourinho’s Chelsea. For RVP, Fergie retired and we were managed by Moyes and LVG. Context plays a part too, don’t be lazy.

All you did was show how good RVP himself was, I'm not disputing that, he was, individually, excellent. But I'll ask again, in what way was the team better after RVP joined. Did we score more goals? Did we play better football? Did we win more games?
If a world class forward plays well for the team while scoring and assisting loads, he did not improve the team? It was obvious he significantly improved our attack and gameplay. He was top scorer for that season while coming in high on the assist charts, what more do you want? Even if overall we scored lesser goals and got lesser points he’d still be an upgrade.

In the big games we also more competitive with him in the team. We beat City at the Etihad after they did the league double over us in 11/12, and one of it was a 1-6 thrashing. Beat Liverpool at Anfield after failing to get a win there for 3 seasons. Won crucial games against Newcastle and Southampton. In Europe we were better, made it past the group stages and was actually the better team over the two legs against Real. Compare and contrast the season before, we got dumped out of CL and had a horrorshow against Bilbao (10th in La Liga).
 

VivaObertan

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The one in the last minute with that long range pass from Giggs? It was a fantastic ball, incredible first touch on the move and the acute finish. Mine was his goal against Reading. Incredible movement and slots it in the keepers near post. Beautiful season. Beautiful player.
That's the one! Ridiculous from both Giggs and RVP tbh.
 

Irwin99

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I always felt he ran himself into the ground for Holland at the world cup in '14. Seemed to be injured a lot in the season before that and afterwards, so we only really got one year from him. Top player, just wish we had bought him sooner.
 

FattyFooty

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For me he's one of my all time favorite players. And i been around for a long time.

It just felt so good getting a pure world class player again. Just look at how many hard goals he scored that season.

To me he's the last true top player we had. At least for outfield players.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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What he did in 12/13 to win the league probably underappreciated or underrated by many people nowdays. Pretty much single-handedly carrying both our goals & creativity. That season he registered as most goals in our team, most assist in our team (equal to Rooney) & most chance creator in our team to lead us the 20th title.
 

Striker10

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I remember Ronaldo's 2007-8 season. I also remember the missed penalty in the CL final.

What's your point?
ill bite. Ruud would have scored. The Ruud pre sulk. RVP was a top player but Ruud, Yorke I think would have scored there. Bit more composure but werent to be
 

Berbasbullet

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For a period of around two years, part-Arsenal and part-United, I think he was the best #9 in Europe (apart from the obvious pair).

I remember the game we played against Madrid at the Bernabeu; he missed a big chance. But his hold-up play that game was imperious. Up there with the best I can remember watching.

An inspired signing, ultimately.
Yep! He was class that game despite the miss.