Ryan Mason's head injury | has had to retire

[SirHenryPercy]

No player is going to try and foul another player by hitting their skull with their own, it's incredibly painful no one would intentionally do it. It might be reckless but it's just an unfortunate accident. Hope Mason recovers fully.

People head butt each other, and I'm absolutely certain that (not often) players have deliberately nutted somebody on aerial challenges.

Not in this case though, but it wasn't a good challenge, he's very late and coming from an angle where he can't win it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

People head butt each other, and I'm absolutely certain that (not often) players have deliberately nutted somebody on aerial challenges.

Not in this case though, but it wasn't a good challenge, he's very late and coming from an angle where he can't win it.

Head butts are always aimed at the face. Usually the nose. Nobody in their right mind would deliberately slam their skull into the dome of someone else's skull. In any context.

 

[Carl]

No player is going to try and foul another player by hitting their skull with their own, it's incredibly painful no one would intentionally do it. It might be reckless but it's just an unfortunate accident. Hope Mason recovers fully.

Since when does it make a difference whether it's intentional or not?

 

[Massive Spanner]

it's obviously not a fair challenge, nor is it intentional, so it's a bit of a 'grey' one. I blame Cahill for being reckless, I don't blame him for the misfortune Mason suffered, it's an incredibly rare occurrence, after all.

it's sickening to see, though, hope he makes a full recovery.

 

[montpelier]

It seems to me that we have identified this area of ''unintentional recklessness'' here - which is fair enough, I have n't got a problem with that & think it is quite an interesting question.

For intentional recklessness, I would guess we all think it is easily identifiable & should obviously get an automatic red card.

However, contested headers with players arriving from different directions & GKs charging out to punch then it is a lot more unclear isn't it?

Also, the rules changed didn't they, but are difficult to enforce & obtain agreement over for the straightforward 'being out of control' or players turning & kicking & finding that there is an opponent there who they kick instead accidentally, inherently wild overhead kicks in a packed box too, people then say that should be OK. Difficult to know where to draw the line isn't it?

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Head butts are always aimed at the face. Usually the nose. Nobody in their right mind would deliberately slam their skull into the dome of someone else's skull. In any context.

There's an awful lot of not right minded people out there, and people get head butted in all sorts of areas, the forehead is a common impact point.

Anyway we're going off topic, as this was a clash and not a deliberate butt.

 

[Fortitude]

As soon as I heard the thud in real time, I knew it was a really bad one. A clash of heads doesn't normally make such an audible sound for the microphones to pick up and beam back to TV watchers, so it was obviously tremendous force.

Cahill should not have been allowed to continue on even if he appeared to be fine. Football is archaic in some respects and head trauma is at the forefront of that. It shouldn't take a serious injury, or worse, for the laws regarding that to be revised.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Ha no nothing I can think of (maybe memory then?!) definitely nothing like that though.

The actual injury never really "hurt" (I was so badly concussed I might as well have been drunk) until a couple of months later when I leant back against my patio window and gentle banged the exact spot and it was like a thousand needles being inserted into my skull.

Ouch

 

[NinjaFletch]

it's obviously not a fair challenge, nor is it intentional, so it's a bit of a 'grey' one. I blame Cahill for being reckless, I don't blame him for the misfortune Mason suffered, it's an incredibly rare occurrence, after all.

it's sickening to see, though, hope he makes a full recovery.

I had a think about this in the context of the laws of the game last night and I really don't think you could justify calling it reckless or, more extremely, excessive force.

Cahill has to go in at it like that because of the distance to goal. To me it resembles someone nipping in and stealing the ball away as someone's winding up to hit it from distance and getting a boot up their backside for the trouble.

I think it probably should have been a Hull free kick and was careless on Cahill part. But both of the other two definitions imply some sort of malicious intent from Cahill that simply wasn't there for me.

Either way it's good to hear Mason's stable, but footballs let itself again badly with the way it handed Cahill's potential concussion.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I had a think about this in the context of the laws of the game last night and I really don't think you could justify calling it reckless or, more extremely, excessive force.

Cahill has to go in at it like that because of the distance to goal. To me it resembles someone nipping in and stealing the ball away as someone's winding up to hit it from distance and getting a boot up their backside for the trouble.

I think it probably should have been a Hull free kick and was careless on Cahill part. But both of the other two definitions imply some sort of malicious intent from Cahill that simply wasn't there for me.

Either way it's good to hear Mason's stable, but footballs let itself again badly with the way it handed Cahill's potential concussion.

Or that classic "kick racism out of football" John Terry moment.

 

[Globule]

It's incredibly harsh to blame Cahill for Mason's current situation. It was an honest attempt to get the ball and it can only go down as an unfortunate accident.

I do, however, think there should be something in the rules that encourages players to be more responsible with the timing of headed challenges and punches. I remember we had an incident in the past couple of years when one of our players went up for a header and the keeper ended up punching him in the side of the head because he completely mistimed the punch. You'd think incidents like these would merit a freekick at least, but they never get punished at all.

 

[balaks]

Fingers crossed Ryan recovers fully and is able to return to the pitch very soon. Awful thing to have happened.

 

[arthurka]

Cahill never went in there to hurt the player it´s reckless all the same..

Hitting someone with your forehead vs getting hit in the back of the head or on the side it´s not comparable..
It was a clear foul and probably a red card or at least a yellow.

That said hope Mason recovers well..

 

[Rado_N]

It seems to me that we have identified this area of ''unintentional recklessness'' here - which is fair enough, I have n't got a problem with that & think it is quite an interesting question.

For intentional recklessness, I would guess we all think it is easily identifiable & should obviously get an automatic red card.

However, contested headers with players arriving from different directions & GKs charging out to punch then it is a lot more unclear isn't it?

Also, the rules changed didn't they, but are difficult to enforce & obtain agreement over for the straightforward 'being out of control' or players turning & kicking & finding that there is an opponent there who they kick instead accidentally, inherently wild overhead kicks in a packed box too, people then say that should be OK. Difficult to know where to draw the line isn't it?

You can't be intentionally reckless.

 

[m1y2]

It's unfortunate, it's not a foul. Two committed players attacking the ball with their heads, one comes off a bit worse than the other. Simple.

it is unfortunate but it is a clear foul, don't know what you're talking about, head is just another part of your body with which one players is late to the challenge, sometimes they are not blown as fouls as they just happen quite quickly and referee can't see the whole situation clearly - set pieces are great example.. this is at least a yellow

 

[DrRodo]

A late challenge is always a foul, despite the offender players intentions, except when you hit another player with your head? Then its ok

 

[Ixion]

Who in their right mind would hit another player with their head where there is as much chance you'll end up in a bad way as the other player.

 

[facund]

It's a foul. A late/poor/mistimed challenge that makes contact with the player. Intention is irrelevant as to whether it is a foul just as the damage inflicted to Mason is largely irrelevant to that matter.

Whether it is a red card is more debatable as Cahill clearly didn't anticipate the outcome to be what it was. Saying that, the force utilised was infinitely more than that which got Xhaka sent off yesterday.

 

[Philadelphian]

But it is a foul! A competent referee would have awarded a penalty and issued a red card if the ball was on the ground and Cahill's leg ploughed into Mason after he had played the ball. The fact that Cahill has mistimed his challenge and headbutted Mason, causing him to go off injured, is far more dangerous than the ground offence which would have resulted in a red card. So, it should have been a red card for Cahill and a penalty to Hull.

Nailed it.

 

[Zebs]

Nailed it.

Well, apart from the fact Hull were defending at the time.

 

[Philadelphian]

Well, apart from the fact Hull were defending at the time.

Yea, I looked past that part as it was clearly just a minor mistake. The main point being that it was a late challenge/clear foul. And the refs will need to start calling these as such if you want to avoid the discussion of Petr Cech head bumpers on everyone.

 

[crossy1686]

Absolutely shocked when I heard the damage, especially considering the contact looked pretty standard for a clash of heads. Really hope Ryan makes a speedy recovery and he can play football again at some level. It's moments like this that really put things into perspective.

In regards to the challenge being a red card, I think you have to question the intent and the intent of clashing heads. I don't think you'll find anyone play football is looking to clash heads with another player, on the basis that it really hurts and there's a good chance both players are coming of the pitch afterwards. If anyone does intend to headbutt another player then it's a straight red. So in that sense, Cahil was clumsy and could have seen yellow for it but there was certainly no intent to do that to him.

 

[Rado_N]

Intent is irrelevant.

 

[diarm]

Great to hear he's awake and talking about the incident this morning. Hope the lad has a full and speedy recovery.

 

[jojojo]

According to the Sun:

RYAN MASON’S health has improved overnight and he is said to be doing “good” after being visited by his dad and Hull captain Michael Dawson.

Leaving the hospital after a 45-minute visit a club doctor said: “He’s good.

“He was delighted to see us. Marco Silva the manager went back to Hull last night but all the medical staff stayed down.

“The team captain Michael Dawson, the club secretary, the physio and his dad were here today.”


https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/2683...from-his-dad-and-club-captain-michael-dawson/

 

[jojojo]

Confirmed by the club. http://www.hullcitytigers.com/news/article/2016-17/ryan-mason-update-3534195.aspx

The Club can confirm that Ryan has been visited this morning at St Mary's Hospital by Club Captain Michael Dawson, Club Doctor Mark Waller, Head of Medical Rob Price and Club Secretary Matt Wild.

Ryan has been speaking of the incident yesterday and will continue to be monitored at the hospital over the coming days where the Club will remain in close contact with Ryan, his family and the staff at St Mary's.

Ryan and his family have also been extremely touched by the overwhelming support they have received and would very much like to thank all of those who have posted such positive comments both on social media and in the press over the last 24 hours.

 

[Cutch]

Intent is irrelevant.

Yep. Reminds me of an incident involving Phil Jones (surprise surprise) from a couple of seasons ago. He went absolutely steaming in like a mentalist to attack a header from a corner and injured himself, and i think the opponent. Obviosuly didn't mean to cause harm but you should be punished same as a foul on the deck for going in recklessly/out of control/excessive force

 

[starman]

Foul be never a red card.

This is unfortunate things that happens in contact sports. Manson headed the ball the exact time as Cahill knock his head on his, he also was twisting his neck to head the ball towards goal. The ball had not been cleared and Cahall clattered into Mason, it was just a misjudgement on the trajectory of the ball

People who are advocating Cahill should be banned (red card etc) are entering a area where football becomes non contact, which makes it a whole different sport

 

[montpelier]

You can't be intentionally reckless.

you'd say it has to be considered to be either one or the other is it? I can see that, yes, where intentional & reckless clearly have different meanings

but might be very difficult to distinguish, for example if I get in a car & drive at very excessive speed, am I not being like 'deliberately stupid'

I find myself wondering about accidental & deliberate handball now, and whether there is a category in between & who decides what it is. Or surely it has to be one or the other?

 

[Rado_N]

you'd say it has to be considered to be either one or the other is it? I can see that, yes, where intentional & reckless clearly have different meanings

but might be very difficult to distinguish, for example if I get in a car & drive at very excessive speed, am I not being like 'deliberately stupid'

I find myself wondering about accidental & deliberate handball now, and whether there is a category in between & who decides what it is. Or surely it has to be one or the other?

Yes, reckless is a lack of due care rather than an intent to cause harm.

Handball has to be deliberate to be handball.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, reckless is a lack of due care rather than an intent to cause harm.

Handball has to be deliberate to be handball.

Isn't the idea that the decision to not take due care in any given situation is a conscious one?

 

[Rado_N]

Isn't the idea that the decision to not take due care in any given situation is a conscious one?

Yea but the consequences of that action were not intended, they are a byproduct. Hence can't be intentional, but are down to recklessness.

 

[MAME DIOUF 32]

It was the two-footed lunge of aerial challenges. I don't believe for a second that he meant harm but it was reckless and we've seen that it put his opponent at huge risk. It feels harsh to ban Cahill now because historically these challenges haven't been punished, but at a minimum the FA and referees should put the message out that flying in like that will no longer be looked upon so softly.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Didn't know it was so bad. It reminds me of Cech's . Get on well Ryan!

 

[duffer]

Cahill and Terry visited him today.

Glad he seems to be doing well. I know you can never tell but Cech was back playing in 3 months and his was worse (had part of his skull removed and replaced with metal plates). Hopefully Mason is back playing this season.

 

[Jazz]

It's good news he's up and talking. Really happy about this and hopefully he won't be out for too long..

 

[Rado_N]

Cahill and Terry visited him today.

Glad he seems to be doing well. I know you can never tell but Cech was back playing in 3 months and his was worse (had part of his skull removed and replaced with metal plates). Hopefully Mason is back playing this season.

Not in any way minimising what happened to Cech but it's a bit different with an outfield player who will need to head the ball/challenge for arial duels etc.

The injury may be medically less severe but it terms of impact on playing it could yet be worse due to the psychological effects.

 

[golden_blunder]

Fractured skull but an acceptable challenge? Ok...

Excessive force? Reckless? Dangerously out of control?

Ever heard of accidents before?

 

[Rams]

His brains are still on the Stamford Bridge pitch. He must have had one hellova headache this morning.
On a more serious note, I watched the game and my first reaction was that it's a reckless challenge from Cahill to say the least. Not the first time I've seen this type of incident involving Cahill. The worry is that somebody's going to get killed. Is it time for the authorities to 'crack' down on these type of challenges?

 

[Rams]

Ever heard of accidents before?

I thought it was extremely reckless by Cahill.