Saúl Ñíguez \ Joins Chelsea on loan

[theklr]

is that a bad thing for us ?

Id rather have Saul, but keeping Pogba isnt the worst of outcomes either

 

[DSG]

1) Saúl is OK technically, limited under pressure in build-up. He can't organize play and should not have the ball in the build-up unless he improves this part of his game drastically.

2) Actually, very good instinct. His interpretation of space is very good - def & off. But he's not played in that position for a long time.

3) Less and less with time passing on. However, when in form, yes. Here's an amazing statistic: Atlético haven't lost a single competitive game when Saúl has scored a goal. Think it's 45 games as of now. Since 2014..

4) Yes, excellent tactically and very adaptable if used correctly.

5) Very disciplined off the ball and in terms of covering spaces. He understands what good movements off the ball means like few players.

As for the last point; Atlético play different systems and approach games differently based on the opposition. They've mostly been playing a 3-5-2 but it has sometimes morphed into a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 - it depends on the players on the pitch. Simeone makes changes to the system several times during games (up to 3 times depending on the situation). Saúl has mostly played as a "interior" (central midfielder who plays on the wing but goes inside to open up space for the wing-backs/fullbacks) and as a wing-back. Llorente moves between CM/wing (defensive duties) and running behind opposing defenders back as a third striker and utilizing his pace (1 v 1, combination play) on the wing (enabled by Trippier's/Koke's passing).

João's problem is injuries - not Simeone. It's a myth that Simeone is defensive and he doesn't fit in. Simeone asks for defensive discipline and efficiency and the player is intelligent enough to adapt to that. But JF's got a very fragile frame and has been kicked off the pitch at least 3-4 times since he joined rendering in various injuries that have limited him for large periods of time. He played injured from early November until finally getting an operation in July last season. That's why he barely featured for Portugal at the Euros. He was Atlético's best player by a large margin when he was fit between August-October.

Great reply, thanks for clarifying. I did notice a few matches last season where they were playing 3 at the back. Also, good insight on Felix. I was assuming there was an issue between Simeone and Felix because he was dropped for a few matches in the spring, but I guess that’s not the case.

 

[Rob Bowman]

Based on all I have read it would be interesting to know if Saul himself would be interested in playing a DCM in a 4-3-3... I am intrigued but wonder his thoughts

 

[Marcus]

Just had a look at his YouTube vids. Looks very much like a Matic replacement if you asked me. If not too expensive, he could be worth a punt.

 

[pratyush_utd]

If Pogba is staying then Neves will be better pick than Saul. If Pogba is leaving then we can pick both Saul and Neves. Not sure if Pogba Bruno and Saul midfield will work. Would rather play Fred with Pogba and Bruno acting as No 8.

 

[beingshe7don]

If Pogba is staying then Neves will be better pick than Saul. If Pogba is leaving then we can pick both Saul and Neves. Not sure if Pogba Bruno and Saul midfield will work. Would rather play Fred with Pogba and Bruno acting as No 8.

For all that Pogba brings to the team, I just think he offers a lot of imbalance in midfield because of his lack of tracking back in midfield. It's in our best interest to let him go. I could see a midfield of Neves, Saul and Bruno working. Neves with his DLP ability along with Saul with his defensive box-to-box mentality works well with Bruno playing in the No. 10 role.

 

[pratyush_utd]

For all that Pogba brings to the team, I just think he offers a lot of imbalance in midfield because of his lack of tracking back in midfield. It's in our best interest to let him go. I could see a midfield of Neves, Saul and Bruno working. Neves with his DLP ability along with Saul with his defensive box-to-box mentality works well with Bruno playing in the No. 10 role.

Saul Neves and Bruno midfield wont be better than Pogba Bruno and Fred Midfield. Both Bruno and Pogba need to track back to make that work. Otherwise the midfield you suggested will become new double pivot that we have with Mcfred if Bruno plays higher up the pitch.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Saúl is being sold because of a variety of reasons.

1) He's lost his spot as an undisputed starter. This is the main reason for the player wanting to leave Atlético. It happened during the past season because of performances that haven't been good enough. He doesn't have any problems with Simeone - it's the other way around. Simeone has given Saúl the chance to redeem himself on many occasions over the past 2-3 seasons despite the rather poor performances. He's not played well for the past 2-3 seasons but Simeone's always given his full trust. The other reason is the explosion of Llorente who was fundamental to Atlético's league win last season. He's been left behind in the pecking order by more or less everyone he competes with for a starting spot. The club and Saúl have a special relation because of his status as a youth team product which is why they won't stand in his way.

2) Saúl is a rather special case. He's an incredibly versatile player and this is a major advantage when the team needs it for several reasons. He can play LB, LWB, CB, DM, CM, LM, RM, SS and it's something Simeone has utilized to a maximum in order to strengthen the team whenever they've needed it. Saúl is very unselfish in this sense - as long as he plays. But..there's another side to things and that's when he doesn't play. That's when the issues start. He wants to play all the time - even if he doesn't perform. That's also when his entourage come into play and start pressing for more playing time. It has happened in the past - several times - and it'll happen in the future if he doesn't play.

Saúl's biggest problem is a different one though. It's the fact that he doesn't have a fixed position. He's a box-to-box midfielder naturally. He's a goal scoring threat coming undetected from the second line of attack (similar to Gerrard/Lampard) but that position doesn't exist at Atlético and he's not good enough to play as a SS because the options upfront are simply much better. He's very good in the air, shoots well from distance and very physical. He covers tons of ground. His ability to drive the ball is also very good for a player with his technical ability - which is limited and why he can't play as a deep lying DM who'll start play with his passing. That part of his game is very limited compared to the elite in European football. He's much better utilized further up the pitch but he can anchor the team defensively in many games - just not against the best teams if he's supposed to perform that role.

A great player tactically if utilized correctly. He's a fantastic professional btw. I've seen it myself while at Atlético's training sessions in Majadahonda many times.

Most important of all: Saúl needs a change of scenery in order to find himself again. Especially since he's gone through a rough time in terms of mental issues in the past year or so. It'd be good for him and for the club. That leads us onto the next point.

3) Saúl is in the second echelon of earners at Atlético. This is why the club think it's better to sell him with everything else in mind that I've posted about his situation. He's currently player 11-14 in the pecking order but earns a salary which belongs to someone who should be an undisputed starter.

There's also a side story regarding his wages where the club had planned on improving his contract but the pandemic and his performances have come in the way of this.

I find this interesting for me to ask you question since you said he is not really a deep lying DM. When you used to play in midfield two with Saul & Partey, what was his role and what was Partey role? I always thought Partey is more a box to box.

 

[Escobar]

Just had a look at his YouTube vids. Looks very much like a Matic replacement if you asked me. If not too expensive, he could be worth a punt.

Saul is not really a DM, is he? He seems more box to box and he never seemed stood out as great defensively

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Saul is not really a DM, is he? He seems more box to box and he never seemed stood out as great defensively

He has very good defensive attributes and reads the game much better than Fred or McT. When he and Partey were the central duo he was the one that sat back and used his positional awareness and defensive nouse to break up play so I doubt it will be much of a stretch for him to adapt to that role on a more permanent basis.
However he is basically just a far better version of McT and would probably be better suited to having a similar role to McT. Basically a box 2 box player.

As much as I like Saul, I do think I’m starting to lean more towards Neves but my fear is he’d lack physical presence in midfield to win aerial duels and what not. This might be counteracted if Varane and Maguire are pushed up but Neves would certainly give more adventurous passing from deep and an ability to execute them whilst being a threat from outside the box. His interceptions and Tackles are up on par with Fred, Bissouma and the likes as well. He’s just no where near as mobile

 

[Polar]

I think he ends up in United very soon. Great player. Definitely value for money; €40m is a bargain.

He isn’t a DCM, but a perfect replacement for Pogba. Pogba is off course more class, but Saul will fit us better; we will be a more balanced and complete team.

————Fred————
Bruno————Saul

 

[Bestietom]

He has very good defensive attributes and reads the game much better than Fred or McT. When he and Partey were the central duo he was the one that sat back and used his positional awareness and defensive nouse to break up play so I doubt it will be much of a stretch for him to adapt to that role on a more permanent basis.
However he is basically just a far better version of McT and would probably be better suited to having a similar role to McT. Basically a box 2 box player.

As much as I like Saul, I do think I’m starting to lean more towards Neves but my fear is he’d lack physical presence in midfield to win aerial duels and what not. This might be counteracted if Varane and Maguire are pushed up but Neves would certainly give more adventurous passing from deep and an ability to execute them whilst being a threat from outside the box. His interceptions and Tackles are up on par with Fred, Bissouma and the likes as well. He’s just no where near as mobile

He likes to sit back and dictate from here. He was changed around too much with Simeone which is why he wants a change. I read that he stated this to his agent. A Carrick role he likes to play.

 

[AneRu]

He has very good defensive attributes and reads the game much better than Fred or McT. When he and Partey were the central duo he was the one that sat back and used his positional awareness and defensive nouse to break up play so I doubt it will be much of a stretch for him to adapt to that role on a more permanent basis.
However he is basically just a far better version of McT and would probably be better suited to having a similar role to McT. Basically a box 2 box player.

As much as I like Saul, I do think I’m starting to lean more towards Neves but my fear is he’d lack physical presence in midfield to win aerial duels and what not. This might be counteracted if Varane and Maguire are pushed up but Neves would certainly give more adventurous passing from deep and an ability to execute them whilst being a threat from outside the box. His interceptions and Tackles are up on par with Fred, Bissouma and the likes as well. He’s just no where near as mobile

It certainly sounds like Saul and Neves would complement each other rather than a case of considering them as alternatives to one another.

That we seemingly have either as top options is concerning because it looks like they are our top targets because they are gettable not because of their individual attributes and what they would add to the team in its current state. Saul is an upgrade on Fred and McTominay but upgrading our defensive box to box 8 shouldn't be our priority right now, we badly need an accomplished DM which Neves isn't too given his mobility issues.

I don't know the thought processes within the club but I am very worried about our approach to this position and I hope we won't saddle ourselves with another big contract handed to a player who doesn't suit how we want to play. I also pray that we won't overestimate the contribution we can expect from Matic and factor that in our decision on whether or not we sign a DM.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

It certainly sounds like Saul and Neves would complement each other rather than a case of considering them as alternatives to one another.

That we seemingly have either as top options is concerning because it looks like they are our top targets because they are gettable not because of their individual attributes and what they would add to the team in its current state. Saul is an upgrade on Fred and McTominay but upgrading our defensive box to box 8 shouldn't be our priority right now, we badly need an accomplished DM which Neves isn't too given his mobility issues.

I don't know the thought processes within the club but I am very worried about our approach to this position and I hope we won't saddle ourselves with another big contract handed to a player who doesn't suit how we want to play. I also pray that we won't overestimate the contribution we can expect from Matic and factor that in our decision on whether or not we sign a DM.

Case could be made for them being a good duo but only way I see that happening is if Pogba goes. Even then I’d rather we went 433 so we move Bruno back as personally I don’t think we get the best out of Bruno where he plays now. I Think he can go on to be a much better player than he currently is as an 8 instead of this 10 role he has now.

They are both capable of playing DM. As I said Neves numbers are up there with the best in the prem and he’s blest with very good vision, passing ability and you don’t get to become one of the youngest captains in champions league history for Porto if you don’t have something about you. If say Bruno and Pogba lapse and don’t do their job will he be as capable of chasing someone down, taking the ball off of them as say a Saul, Fred, McT, Ndidi, Bisouma probably not but then pretty sure situations like that are why we’ve gone for Varane, backed with Bissaka and Shaw. I expect to see way more front foot defending this coming season and in a system like that then Neves should be fine.

All honesty I’d rather have Saul or Neves than Rice.

 

[passing-wind]

I think he ends up in United very soon. Great player. Definitely value for money; €40m is a bargain.

He isn’t a DCM, but a perfect replacement for Pogba. Pogba is off course more class, but Saul will fit us better; we will be a more balanced and complete team.

————Fred————
Bruno————Saul

Fred is no good screening the back four that lineup would be a disaster. The reason the club are linked with a Matic replacement is because no one in the midfield can resemble his position.

 

[MadDogg]

Fred is no good screening the back four that lineup would be a disaster. The reason the club are linked with a Matic replacement is because no one in the midfield can resemble his position.

I'd expect he and Saul to be playing at a similar level on the field, rather than Saul pushed forward with Bruno. Basically just Saul replacing McTominay in how we played last season.

 

[beingshe7don]

Saul Neves and Bruno midfield wont be better than Pogba Bruno and Fred Midfield. Both Bruno and Pogba need to track back to make that work. Otherwise the midfield you suggested will become new double pivot that we have with Mcfred if Bruno plays higher up the pitch.

I think Saul and Neves work in a double pivot. Saul offers that engine that we expect of Fred with ability to drive as well as pass through the lines while Neves is disciplined to hold his position in front of the defense and has the ability to spray passes left and right which our forwards can latch onto. McT is more of a driver/ ball carrier as opposed to passer. Therefore, I don't see how the combination of Saul/ Neves being similar to McFred.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I'd expect he and Saul to be playing at a similar level on the field, rather than Saul pushed forward with Bruno. Basically just Saul replacing McTominay in how we played last season.

From what I have seen Saul seemed pretty similar to McTominay to me. Same positive attributes and weak points.
Surely not the DM we should be looking for.

 

[Morpheus 7]

From what I have seen Saul seemed pretty similar to McTominay to me. Same positive attributes and weak points.
Surely not the DM we should be looking for.

What are you on about, similar to Mc Tominay. You haven't a clue, Saul is technically on a different level. He had a bad season last year but don't compare him to Scott in attributes. You really do here some crazy things in the caf these days.

 

[AneRu]

Case could be made for them being a good duo but only way I see that happening is if Pogba goes. Even then I’d rather we went 433 so we move Bruno back as personally I don’t think we get the best out of Bruno where he plays now. I Think he can go on to be a much better player than he currently is as an 8 instead of this 10 role he has now.

They are both capable of playing DM. As I said Neves numbers are up there with the best in the prem and he’s blest with very good vision, passing ability and you don’t get to become one of the youngest captains in champions league history for Porto if you don’t have something about you. If say Bruno and Pogba lapse and don’t do their job will he be as capable of chasing someone down, taking the ball off of them as say a Saul, Fred, McT, Ndidi, Bisouma probably not but then pretty sure situations like that are why we’ve gone for Varane, backed with Bissaka and Shaw. I expect to see way more front foot defending this coming season and in a system like that then Neves should be fine.

All honesty I’d rather have Saul or Neves than Rice.

With Neves you will always need a McFred type of player to provide the energy off the ball and ground coverage which would work well if he comes in as a squad player. The flip side for Saul is also true, you will always need someone to sit in front of a back four if you have Saul.

I think signing them both would make sense however it makes more economic sense to sign Neves and use him in rotation with Fred, McTominay and Pogba.

 

[Infra-red]

He likes to sit back and dictate from here. He was changed around too much with Simeone which is why he wants a change. I read that he stated this to his agent. A Carrick role he likes to play.

Saul's passing isn't good enough to perform 'the Carrick role' to a high standard. He's a box-to-box player with a great engine who like to make tackles and put himself about physically.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Thread bump. No tweet. Walks out.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Has anyone mentioned the Ramos saga yet??

 

[Rolaholic]

He's playing LWB today...

 

[Cheech Wizard]

Thought he was "Arriving in England next week to finalise move to United or Liverpool.." that was nearly two weeks ago? Talk crap some of these journos.

 

[RDCR07]

Thought he was "Arriving in England next week to finalise move to United or Liverpool.." that was nearly two weeks ago? Talk crap some of these journos.

That was his representative apparently coming to England to talk to Pool and United. Think they are pushing for a move more so than United and Pool are.

 

[Ikon]

He's playing LWB today...

He's a very versatile player, so I think its a bit blinkered to suggest that he couldn't play as the anchor in a Midfield 3, I think he could evolve into that role.

 

[Jaxa]

So talks today from Romano that Chelsea are looking at him,

I’ll be honest I’d be gutted if that happens, would be salt in the wound as we’d complete a really good transfer window if we managed to get Saul in.

If Chelsea get Lukaku, Kounde and Saul then by god that’s some extreme amount of depth they’d have in their squad, I fear them a lot more than I do City

 

[therealtboy]

So talks today from Romano that Chelsea are looking at him,

I’ll be honest I’d be gutted if that happens, would be salt in the wound as we’d complete a really good transfer window if we managed to get Saul in.

If Chelsea get Lukaku, Kounde and Saul then by god that’s some extreme amount of depth they’d have in their squad, I fear them a lot more than I do City

The idea of Saul is what you're holding on to, he's not that player anymore. Let him join Chelsea, he won't dominate Fred nor McTominay. We need a midfielder a level up from these guys, a midfield equivalent of Sancho and Varane. If we can't get that this window then I'm willing to wait. Saul isn't the answer.

 

[Andrew7582]

So talks today from Romano that Chelsea are looking at him,

I’ll be honest I’d be gutted if that happens, would be salt in the wound as we’d complete a really good transfer window if we managed to get Saul in.

If Chelsea get Lukaku, Kounde and Saul then by god that’s some extreme amount of depth they’d have in their squad, I fear them a lot more than I do City

I think it would only make sense to get Saul on a loan with an option to buy. His recent form has been quite bad so paying a big fee is risky.

 

[RDCR07]

I think it would only make sense to get Saul on a loan with an option to buy. His recent form has been quite bad so paying a big fee is risky.

Athletico need the money to buy a replacement. They aren’t going to just let him go on a loan for free.

 

[Andrew7582]

Athletico need the money to buy a replacement. They aren’t going to just let him go on a loan for free.

Then they can keep him, he is on big wages, 200k+ I think. They want to shift his wages and also get a big fee at the same time, for a player who has just had a bad year? Chelsea can help them out if they want but we shouldn't be anywhere near that deal. A loan wouldn't be ''free'' anyway, there is usually a loan fee involved.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

The idea of Saul is what you're holding on to, he's not that player anymore. Let him join Chelsea, he won't dominate Fred nor McTominay. We need a midfielder a level up from these guys, a midfield equivalent of Sancho and Varane. If we can't get that this window then I'm willing to wait. Saul isn't the answer.

I agree entirely with this. Saul has been upgraded at Atlético - if we want to improve our team at this point we shouldn't be looking at Atlético cast-offs. He offers mobility, discipline and tactical intelligence, but he's not great on the ball and he isn't a no.6, and if we buy him to fill that gap we're probably gonna be looking at another midfield signing next summer anyway. His best games have been as a midfield runner in backs-to-the-wall performances - just like McFred. That's not what we need.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

Athletico need the money to buy a replacement. They aren’t going to just let him go on a loan for free.

That really doesn't sound like a good reason to buy a player.

Also Atlético just bought de Paul because Saul wasn't cutting it. We'd be dumb to pay €45m for someone who can't make their first team as he enters his prime.

 

[redrobed]

TBH Real and Barca aren't teams to look at in the transfer market anymore. Have you seen their recent record of signings? Only difference is that current United fans struggle with having a known entity ride the bench. Madrid would have sent him to Siberia and noone would have questioned them, but for some reason at United, " he's too good to be a bench player", " I wonder how Donny must be feeling"; why should we care how he feels. You play when you deserve to play.

We can’t pack DVB off to Siberia after paying 40m for him. This is the sort of thing we’re busy accusing Citeh of.

 

[SinNombre]

Saul on loan wouldn’t be the worst idea.

 

[reddevilchennai]

Saul on loan wouldn’t be the worst idea.

Why would they send him on loan? He can fill in for them at multiple of positions.

 

[mav_9me]

Why would they send him on loan? He can fill in for them at multiple of positions.

He is not in their plans.

 

[croadyman]

Saul on loan wouldn’t be the worst idea.

Very true but seems only Chelsea are in for that deal, he's obviously happy to fight their mass of midfielders for a place

 

[Santos J]

https://as.com/futbol/2021/08/24/pr...=QUNUVUFMSURBRA==&m3=MQ==&m4=bm9ybWFs&m5=MjI=

Both us and Chelsea in for him with us apparently "taking the lead" in negotiations.