Same Old Tottenham, Always Bottling It

[Claymore]

Yea but we have 3 very very good wingers who have plenty of years left.

What we need is a central mid.Isn't that obvious?

Yes we do need a CM but you know what SAF is like, if they see a chance to get Bale Bale Bale then he'll go for it and with Spurs playing on channel 5 that could be likely for a club to get him, same with Modric. SAF didn't exactly 'need l' Rooney after Euro 2004 but the chance was there.

Still, doubt we will actually get someone the profile of Hazard or Bale and we have loads of wingers but it would send out a message. Bale is a player teams fear. United have always had some of those in our teams.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Bottlers you say....hmmmm.

Yes.

Not only this season but we have always been known as the bottlers and we have bottled a lot over the last few seasons.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Must be an incredibly frustrating team to support. Bumping an old thread here, but wanted to talk about Spurs again. Some posters over on this thread disagreed with me when I claimed that Spurs simply have no bottle. Since that thread was posted, I have bumped it ~4 times at different points when Spurs have shown no balls or bottle whatsoever, and it would be completely fair to do so again tonight. Beglin even mentioned that Spurs have lost their last 6 penalty shootouts in a row?! Is that true? If so, Christ.

A good team, with a lot of talent with their downfall always being a complete lack of bottle and guts. A silly hypothetical, but I think bringing in Jose Mourinho, and an experienced ball winning midfielder a la Keano or Gattuso, could have them nearly as title contenders. Nearly. Add a striker who isn't as uninterested as Adebayor or as mediocre as Defoe and I genuinely think there's a title winning team there, assuming Mourinho could remind them of the existence of their testicles and they get a big slice of luck.

Realistically though, give AVB a few more years. I don't rate him, but managers are sacked far too frequently these days and contending for a top 4 finish is quite good for Spurs this season given all the competition for a spot.

 

[Utd heap]

So add 4 world class players and the best manager in the world outside of Fergie and they would challenge?

Big call.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

They've basically been there or there abouts for a while now, losing Modric was a big loss but the brilliance of Bale and to an extent Vertonghen has covered that somewhat. The fact they seemed to be totally impotent in the pursuit of a striker in the summer has cost them against a premiership that is re-evaluating its place in Europe and at home but they could still manage 4th.

Personally I would like them to keep progressing, they may not be producing their own talent (although Bale, huddlestone, Walker signed as youngsters) but they're progressing as a club within their own means whilst playing decent football.

(or at least I think they are, someone is bound to tell me otherwise.)

 

[Cutch]

Bales carried them all season. Just about a top 4 team with him, but only a top 7-8 without. Having to rely on Adebayor to be your main source of goals...feck me.

 

[coolredwine]

Bales carried them all season. Just about a top 4 team with him, but only a top 7-8 without. Having to rely on Adebayor to be your main source of goals...feck me.

His run up before he took the penalty yesterday.

 

[SittingBull]

They could have done with Berbatov this season but pride hindered their better judgement.

 

[Mad Winger]

His run up before he took the penalty yesterday.

What the hell is he doing?

 

[Escobar]

They made the same mistake as we did last year, underestimating FC Basel. And without Bale (and to an extend Defoe) they are just a random mid-table team

 

[kouroux]

Worst thing about Adebayor is his body language after the penalty miss and after it was over.After his miss he almost cracked a smile and when Basel won it's like he never actually cared about the elimination.It's a disgrace

 

[Sarni]

So they ended up playing 120 minutes against Basel, with 10 men for the last 30 which were the most exhausting, and ended up losing anyway. They also lost Bale to injury in the same competition. I'd say their EL campaign was a major disaster, they've dropped more than 5 points in the league due to fatigue after European games and will probably miss a few more at the weekend which will put them in a very tough position. I guess Arsenal will finish ahead of them comfortably and if nothing bad happens so should Chelsea.

 

[Northstand]

Worst thing about Adebayor is his body language after the penalty miss and after it was over.After his miss he almost cracked a smile and when Basel won it's like he never actually cared about the elimination.It's a disgrace

Dead right.

Spurs actually showed a lot of "bottle" last night by holding on to the level scores after Vertonghen's sending off, and Adebayor simply threw it all away.

 

[Grinner]

...and Huddlestone. His pen was shite too.

 

[Archie Leach]

Squad depth is a big issue, as well as the lack of strikers. It's easy to call it a lack of bottle but it happens to a lot of teams with similar lineups, be it Arsenal, Everton, or to a greater extent West Brom, competing on multiple fronts with a thin squad will always bite you in the arse. They have the 5th best squad I'd say, and that's probably where they'll end up, the timing of their fade is a mixture of exhaustion and pressure.

 

[Randall Flagg]

Worst thing about Adebayor is his body language after the penalty miss and after it was over.After his miss he almost cracked a smile and when Basel won it's like he never actually cared about the elimination.It's a disgrace

Agree with this. AVB I reckon will drive him to his next club.

Spurs should go after Benteke in the summer

 

[Archie Leach]

It's not like he didn't have previous, he did the exact same thing at his previous two clubs. Spuds were mad to expect anything else.

 

[Sarni]

Squad depth is a big issue, as well as the lack of strikers. It's easy to call it a lack of bottle but it happens to a lot of teams with similar lineups, be it Arsenal, Everton, or to a greater extent West Brom, competing on multiple fronts with a thin squad will always bite you in the arse. They have the 5th best squad I'd say, and that's probably where they'll end up, the timing of their fade is a mixture of exhaustion and pressure.

Chelsea have to deal with the exact same thing, their squad is extremely short and they have to cope with three competitions at once, not to mention they were in Champions League where games against Shakhtar and Juventus took far more effort than what Spurs had in Europa League, and had to travel to another continent for Club World Cup in the middle of the season and reached League Cup semi-final while mostly playing their best team. If anything Spurs have the advantage over them because they were out of domestic cups shortly after they started. I don't think any European team have played as much as Chelsea this season, if they reach the FA Cup and Europa League finals they will have played the maximum possible amount of game anyone in Europe could play minus one (League Cup final they didn't reach).

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I think its not having the right people, CM they are as good/better than us with not a bad keeper. Their attacking onus lies too much with Bale, but its hard with such a prominent figure as we know from Ronaldo who contributed largely to us.

I just feel a few sales/purchases would push them over the edge but they have been at this stage many times, but I never feared that Harry's buys would turn that little bit more class needed to Spurs, with AVB, I'm not so confident he won't, he has made a few nice little buys to fill some gaps, just needs to spend on the bigger players.

Needs to get rid of Adebayor, but a top striker is required .. That's a cert for me

 

[AlwaysRedwood]

So they ended up playing 120 minutes against Basel, with 10 men for the last 30 which were the most exhausting, and ended up losing anyway. They also lost Bale to injury in the same competition. I'd say their EL campaign was a major disaster, they've dropped more than 5 points in the league due to fatigue after European games and will probably miss a few more at the weekend which will put them in a very tough position. I guess Arsenal will finish ahead of them comfortably and if nothing bad happens so should Chelsea.

They don't play for 11 days. They'll be fine and it gives Bale time to recover.

 

[Archie Leach]

Chelsea have to deal with the exact same thing, their squad is extremely short and they have to cope with three competitions at once, not to mention they were in Champions League where games against Shakhtar and Juventus took far more effort than what Spurs had in Europa League, and had to travel to another continent for Club World Cup in the middle of the season and reached League Cup semi-final while mostly playing their best team. If anything Spurs have the advantage over them because they were out of domestic cups shortly after they started. I don't think any European team have played as much as Chelsea this season, if they reach the FA Cup and Europa League finals they will have played the maximum possible amount of game anyone in Europe could play minus one (League Cup final they didn't reach).

Chelsea aren't exactly flying at the moment though either.

 

[Oggmonster]

It's not like he didn't have previous, he did the exact same thing at his previous two clubs. Spuds were mad to expect anything else.

He played well when he was there on loan in fairness and Spurs probably thought it makes more sense to sign someone like Adebayor who has already settled at the club and knows how it works rather than take a bigger risk signing an unknown player who could easily not work out, of course in hindsight it backfired as except for the last 3 weeks or so he's been pretty awful all season.

I think AVB has to take a share of the blame to be honest, I like him as a manager and think he will improve but looking at the squad it is ridiculously small to be able to cope for maintaining a fourth place finish and hoping to win the UEFA Cup (which is a very long tournament.) For all the stick Adebayor is rightfully getting the fact they are so reliant on him to score at the moment is because they only have 2 strikers and 1 is injured. I never got just having Defoe and Adebayor leading a line either, Defoe consistently goes through dry spells and whilst a brilliant finisher he is quite a one dimensional footballer and no where near as good as the other strikers in Top 4 teams.

Maybe they have been unlucky with injuries, Defoe, Lennon and Bale in that team last night and you could argue they could of won, if they had Kaboul and Gallas in defence they might not concede such stupid goals but it's not really a valid excuse for me, the top 2 is obviously way ahead of them but I can see Chelsea and Arsenal creeping away from them as well purely by using their squad more.

As for last night it was "classic spurs" really, it seems they do struggle to get over the finish line, maybe it's unrealistic expectations from the fans that does it I can't really think of much else, I always remember when Redknapp was in charge and he was talking about the title race when realistically it was never going to happen, it just puts unwanted pressure on the team and would get to some players.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don't they play Chelsea on Sunday?

Granted, both team played last night but the Chelsea game seems to have been a walk in the park, with key players rested.

I'm finding this Spurs collapse actually quite annoying. With no GlastonSpaz around to make me want them to fail I was really hope they could keep Arsenal or Chelsea out of Europe next season. This is looking less and less likely.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

GlastonSpur is still about, I spoke to him a few weeks ago I thought? He was never on daily anyway

 

[Randall Flagg]

Don't they play Chelsea on Sunday?

Granted, both team played last night but the Chelsea game seems to have been a walk in the park, with key players rested.

I'm finding this Spurs collapse actually quite annoying. With no GlastonSpaz around to make me want them to fail I was really hope they could keep Arsenal or Chelsea out of Europe next season. This is looking less and less likely.

Chelsea are playing their FA Cup semi this weekend so that game is pushed back

 

[Oggmonster]

Don't they play Chelsea on Sunday?

Granted, both team played last night but the Chelsea game seems to have been a walk in the park, with key players rested.

I'm finding this Spurs collapse actually quite annoying. With no GlastonSpaz around to make me want them to fail I was really hope they could keep Arsenal or Chelsea out of Europe next season. This is looking less and less likely.

They don't play for 10 Days now (which is vs Chelsea) cos Chelsea are in the Semi Final on Sunday.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

His redcafe appearances wax and wane with a direct correlation to Spurs fortunes. He might be back soon enough but he sure as feck won't turn up today.

 

[africanspur]

So they ended up playing 120 minutes against Basel, with 10 men for the last 30 which were the most exhausting, and ended up losing anyway. They also lost Bale to injury in the same competition. I'd say their EL campaign was a major disaster, they've dropped more than 5 points in the league due to fatigue after European games and will probably miss a few more at the weekend which will put them in a very tough position. I guess Arsenal will finish ahead of them comfortably and if nothing bad happens so should Chelsea.

We're not playing for 10 days, Chelsea are playing in the FA cup this weekend. Hopefully by then we'll have Bale, Lennon, Defoe and possibly Kaboul back.

The problem is that if we can't manage the Europa league, what is the point of even qualifying for the CL? So we finish 4th, qualify. We're not going to rest players for the CL or league so the same thing will just happen again. So we rest players in a competition that we have a realistic chance of winning (as opposed to the CL which we don't) to get into a competition that we'll struggle to qualify for again next season because we're focusing on more than one competition. What's the point then?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Chelsea are playing their FA Cup semi this weekend so that game is pushed back

Excellent. Those 11 days off are exactly what they need right now.

 

[TheReligion]

FA Cup Sunday I think. Chelsea - City

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We're not playing for 10 days, Chelsea are playing in the FA cup this weekend. Hopefully by then we'll have Bale, Lennon, Defoe and possibly Kaboul back.

The problem is that if we can't manage the Europa league, what is the point of even qualifying for the CL? So we finish 4th, qualify. We're not going to rest players for the CL or league so the same thing will just happen again. So we rest players in a competition that we have a realistic chance of winning (as opposed to the CL which we don't) to get into a competition that we'll struggle to qualify for again next season because we're focusing on more than one competition. What's the point then?

Ultimately, the goal of every football club is to win the league, surely? Securing regular CL cash is critical in this regard.

Well it used to be, before sugar daddys got involved...

 

[kouroux]

Ultimately, the goal of every football club is to win the league, surely? Securing regular CL cash is critical in this regard.

Well it used to be, before sugar daddys got involved...

In an ideal world yeah

 

[Archie Leach]

The cash injection could help add depth to the squad, which in turn could seem them compete better on multiple fronts. In theory.

 

[africanspur]

They made the same mistake as we did last year, underestimating FC Basel. And without Bale (and to an extend Defoe) they are just a random mid-table team

Definitely so in the first leg. That 5 minute spell killed the tie imo.

Yesterday we had Defoe, Bale, Lennon, Sandro and Kaboul all missing from the starting line-up, as well as Lloris (out of choice). That is over half of our starting line up.

We've been around 4th all season, even when Bale wasn't scoring at anything above his normal rate (ie up until about 2 months ago) so it is very unfair to say that without Bale and to an extent Defoe, we're a random midtable team. There's a lot of good players in that squad and especially starting lineup when everyone is fit.

Tbh, I'm not all that bothered about where we finish this season. I had us down as 5th or 6th at the beginning because I thought that it was a transition season. The fact that we're still in with a shot with just a few games left is a good season imo. Next season, when hopefully AVB can use the summer to shape the team how he wants to shape it, maybe get a couple of those things called strikers in, we'll see what he's made of then.

Of course, still wouldn't mind that CL qualification this season though.

 

[africanspur]

Ultimately, the goal of every football club is to win the league, surely? Securing regular CL cash is critical in this regard.

Well it used to be, before sugar daddys got involved...

I completely agree but what I mean is that if we can't even juggle the Europa league and the league, then how are we going to juggle the CL and the league? So we finish 4th because we've played the youth in the EL. Then take the CL seriously, maybe reach the last 16 or quarters or something but because we've taken it seriously, we then finish 5th and the cycle repeats over and over.

All the top clubs learn how to manage their squads around the league and cups. If we ever hope to join, that is something we need to learn how to do as well. A big part of that is having a system of play that goes throughout the club so that players can slot in and some players that are like for like replacements, at least in terms of style of play.

Oh, and a striker. Or two.

 

[londonredmaniac]

I'm going to wait and see what happens over the next few weeks before commenting on this...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I completely agree but what I mean is that if we can't even juggle the Europa league and the league, then how are we going to juggle the CL and the league? So we finish 4th because we've played the youth in the EL. Then take the CL seriously, maybe reach the last 16 or quarters or something but because we've taken it seriously, we then finish 5th and the cycle repeats over and over.

All the top clubs learn how to manage their squads around the league and cups. If we ever hope to join, that is something we need to learn how to do as well. A big part of that is having a system of play that goes throughout the club so that players can slot in and some players that are like for like replacements, at least in terms of style of play.

Oh, and a striker. Or two.

Can't be arsed checking but don't CL teams generally have fewer European fixtures than teams who go a long way in the EL?

Obviously, the worst scenario - in terms of too much football - is going the same route as Chelsea this season but you'll have to hope Spurs are good enough to get out of their group.

Money aside, you'll attract a far better class of striker if you can offer him CL football. Plus, you'll find it easier to retain the best players in your current squad.

 

[Archie Leach]

If I wasn't at work I'd post that Garth Marenghi bit on Glasgow.

 

[redmeister]

I completely agree but what I mean is that if we can't even juggle the Europa league and the league, then how are we going to juggle the CL and the league? So we finish 4th because we've played the youth in the EL. Then take the CL seriously, maybe reach the last 16 or quarters or something but because we've taken it seriously, we then finish 5th and the cycle repeats over and over.

All the top clubs learn how to manage their squads around the league and cups. If we ever hope to join, that is something we need to learn how to do as well. A big part of that is having a system of play that goes throughout the club so that players can slot in and some players that are like for like replacements, at least in terms of style of play.

Oh, and a striker. Or two.

Don't you agree their is a huge dishonesty from Spurs fans in general this season? AVB is so popular and has the mandate of the fans, that no matter what happens, most try and excuse your form. I know you've lost Modric, but had you kept him and Arsenal kept RVP, then they'd be abut 10 points clear of you this season. I don't think that's an exaggeration either, as RVP wins so many points for his team, way more than Modric. Yet the vast majority of Spurs fans wont even contemplate the obvious, which is that AVB has had a negative, rather than positive impact.

The football you've played for the majority of the season has been really poor and the decent run you had was when Bale virtually carried the team, when the all round performances were poor. You played well twice against us and away at Liverpool, but other than that, it's hard to remember many good games. Yet last year even SAF acknowledged you were playing the best football in the country. Why aren't your fans worried about this?

 

[kouroux]

Don't you agree their is a huge dishonesty from Spurs fans in general this season? AVB is so popular and has the mandate of the fans, that no matter what happens, most try and excuse your form. I know you've lost Modric, but had you kept him and Arsenal kept RVP, then they'd be abut 10 points clear of you this season. I don't think that's an exaggeration either, as RVP wins so many points for his team, way more than Modric. Yet the vast majority of Spurs fans wont even contemplate the obvious, which is that AVB has had a negative, rather than positive impact.

The football you've played for the majority of the season has been really poor and the decent run you had was when Bale virtually carried the team, when the all round performances were poor. You played well twice against us and away at Liverpool, but other than that, it's hard to remember many good games. Yet last year even SAF acknowledged you were playing the best football in the country. Why aren't your fans worried about this?

I don't get this, why would there have been 10pts between the two teams this season when there was only 1pt last season with both players present. How could have RVP earned Arsenal more pts than he did last season ?