Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder
Sancho needs our support
- Thread starter Desert Eagle
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
That's exactly what made it blip on my radar as irregular, not like he we don't have the capacity and he couldn't be doing this individual stuff we hear players doing all the time with a fitness coach seperate from the group but still with the squad where he is integrated. He's apparantly training with a dutch amateur club called OJC Rosmalen..
Yeah not to mention if Gakpo interest is acted upon that closes off a lot of LW gametime. City have lots of attacking depth so if he is content to sit on our bench for consecutive games as ETH has shown he will do to players I could see that happening more and more, although from a club standpoint having an asset with that much value just depreciating and not exactly providing pace against tired legs for the last 20 minutes doesn't seem sustainable.
And yeah does sound harsh but to be honest though maybe if we actually did act more ruthless like this more often instead of hanging onto deadwood too long or players who don't perform for us then we might start to win trophies again. Not saying this in particular for Sancho just yet but we do need to be more ruthless in general.
He’s simply not good enough. Doesn’t have the trickery nor the speed to play as a winger and doesn’t have the vision to play as a #10.
In the right system he could be a decent goal scoring #10 but that ain’t going to be us.
We should cut our losses here imo.
Also for the love of god lets not buy anyone from Dortmund again. Their attacking style makes most offensive players look way better then they actually are.
In the right system he could be a decent goal scoring #10 but that ain’t going to be us.
We should cut our losses here imo.
Also for the love of god lets not buy anyone from Dortmund again. Their attacking style makes most offensive players look way better then they actually are.
So we give up on every plater who has a poor start to their United career Everyone's different and we also cannot pin our hopes on Garnacho, it's not fair on him as a young player.
My guess is Elanga will be loaned out in Jan and Sancho given minutes rotating with Antony on the right.
We'd be absolutely daft to give up on Sancho already, I'll stick by my guns and say he'll turn it around.
People having meltdowns over him training alone in essentially a month off from club fixtures. No drama here. Individual training programs happen all the time. Varane was on one.
We can’t generalise and just not buy players from X because previous players failed (and Sancho still has time). Dortmund players have been successful after leaving, Gundogan and potentially Haaland at City for example.
I don’t quite agree. With all players, you have two options. (1) Either selling them, or (2) keeping them.
If a player is worth more to you than the money he would fetch in a transfer, he should be kept. If the transfer fee you can get for a player is worth more for you than the player — you should sell the player. Right?
It is not easy to be a younger professional football player. There is tremendous pressure on anyone who plays for Manchester United. Not to mention on a young kid that comes as a record signing to a dysfunctional Man Utd team who probably was the worst ever in the PL.
One big issue I have had with the management of this team for a long time now is that we have kind of given up on building a team with a strong mindset. With SAF it always felt like he will give new signings a 1-2 year audition, and if they didn’t have it — we moved away from them.
I am not blaming Sancho for anything. But we have a large group of players on the squad who has — a long history — of having monumental issues with handling the pressure of being a Man Utd player. Sancho, Martial and Rashford are three.
Jason Sancho is still really young and has a great reputation in the football world. It’s like Neymar’s comment about what he thought about England in the World Cup, and he said that he was a huge fan of Sancho.
If ETH wanted to sell Sancho and we could get 40m for him — I would 100% support him in that transfer. We take a loss. But it also means that we open up for ETH to make another signing.
With that said — I could also see Sancho having a future in Manchester. As a back-up to Rashford at LW. He is a really good fit style wise in ETHs system in that position. Like the opposite to Maguire who is like the worst possible fit style wise at CB for Ten Hag. But I don’t think it’s daft selling him.
No we don't give up on him but if he turns it around from here and becomes world class for us I'd be astonished.
Who was the last big money signing we made who struggled for a few years and went on to turn it around? Can you actually think of anyone?
Why are people against selling him?. He can't fit into our team and both wings are well stacked. His favourite on the L he now has a wonderkid to compete with as well and Rashford is the better suited. It's also Martial's best spot, so he has little hope for the Left.
As for the right, well Antony has locked that place down well and true, so very little chance to become a starter there. With Amad and Pellistri coming up for the RW, he will be pushed out of both wide places even more further out than he is now.
Our best bet is to get him on good form and arrange for him to move on, he didn't cost chump change and there's no point in him sitting on the bench for a few minutes here and there. He will waste everyone's time as well as our money if he stays too long and this is a big reason for Woodward departure, to shift players on big wages on it suitable deals came through.
Better to reinvest the money in Joao Felix who would have a more productive time playing as a fwd here at OT. I'd wager money on Joao having a higher impact at OT within the first 3 months than Sancho in his 2 years here were there a sale in the summer.
As for the right, well Antony has locked that place down well and true, so very little chance to become a starter there. With Amad and Pellistri coming up for the RW, he will be pushed out of both wide places even more further out than he is now.
Our best bet is to get him on good form and arrange for him to move on, he didn't cost chump change and there's no point in him sitting on the bench for a few minutes here and there. He will waste everyone's time as well as our money if he stays too long and this is a big reason for Woodward departure, to shift players on big wages on it suitable deals came through.
Better to reinvest the money in Joao Felix who would have a more productive time playing as a fwd here at OT. I'd wager money on Joao having a higher impact at OT within the first 3 months than Sancho in his 2 years here were there a sale in the summer.
You don’t give up on him but he’s definitely running out of time if this season turns into a write off, which looks very likely at this stage. Part our problem has been persisting with players for too long and eventually being unable to get rid of them. I don’t think it’s be daft to get rid of him now, in unlikely event someone offered good money for him it’s probably be much smarter than keeping him.
I’d be very surprised if he ended up justifying his transfer fee let all one being a top class player, in the Premier League at least.
Wish all the cretins would stop targeting Sancho.
Let’s see what EtH can get out of him then make a decision.
Just cause your usual target Rashy is doing well.
Let’s see what EtH can get out of him then make a decision.
Just cause your usual target Rashy is doing well.
He's been here 16 months and people on here want him out already. It happens all the time here, it's tiring.
I think we should consider this his first season. Last season doesn’t really count but he still showed flashes, this season he’s showed flashes but he needs to start kicking on. By this time next year we will know and if he hasn’t established himself as regular then probably best to part ways.
So the same two options as with every player then.
The problem with the mindset of players is down to the fact we went through four managers, all with different play styles, so had to buy players that were tailored to those play styles.
Ten Hag is now building a team with the right mentality, writing Sancho off is plain daft. Sancho is still very, very young and will still make mistakes.
Sancho didn't dictate the fee he was bought for but writing off a young player after being at a club 18 months is just plain daft.
Every young player makes mistakes, its part of the development process.
Running out of time? He's being at United not even 18 months
he's already a top class player, did you watch him much at Dortmund? He's still adjusting to the PL and should be given enough time to do so.After him it will the Antony or Garnacho because they are off form or whatever
I am just describing how Sir Alex Ferguson handled these things. If someone came in and had problems with the pressure, couldn’t get into the top IX, we sold them and moved forward after a year.
Sancho still have a high value. You recoup a lot of value if you sell him now.
Like, do you think it was wrong by SAF to “give up” on Shinji Kagawa? We bought him for 16m, sold him for 8m. 50% loss.
The current regime (at least prior to ETH arriving) would never have sold a Kagawa after a year. They would have kept him around for 5 years and then let him walk away.
It works both ways, SAF bought Wilfried Zaha and also gave up on him fast. But it meant something to be a player of our team. Players that came here had to live up to a standard, or they were sold. Now it’s all 100% business decisions. I think that has taken a big big toll on the attitude and mindset of our team.
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The whole post was nonsense but this stands out for particular scrutiny.
Sir Alex managed Zaha for a total of 0 games. He was bought under Sir Alex & mismanaged under Moyes.
The Kagawa point was laughable also, he played 1 season for Fergie then he retired. Do you actually follow the club?
Zaha was bought Jan 13 and agreed that we’d loan him back?
So arrived Summer when SAF had gone?
Oki, Kagawa didn’t retire, he played like 5 years after he left us. Did we sell him the year after SAF retired, wow, you deserve the Pulitzer. You think we would have kept him if SAF was still around?
I don’t think you have any idea what you are talking about, keeping players around forever became a thing after SAF left and the mentality changed.
Players weren’t bigger than the club when SAF was here. You couldn’t come here and mail it in for a couple of years, then start to work when the contract was up. Crap like we saw with Pogba would never have been allowed.
Why comment on something when you obviously have zero clue what you are talking about? Big deal, I was a year off. The point still stands.
We have a winner.
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People have already started turning on Antony
SAF sold neither of those players, at least get your facts right that you're using to back up your point.
"He [Sir Alex Ferguson] was so demanding with everybody. If you couldn’t keep up, it was clear you would have to look elsewhere," said Veron.
"He was always forthright with me, but he had my back from day one, which was very much appreciated. At some points, I wasn’t able to give him everything he expected from me consistently. He got it in a few matches but not in others, and if you want to be a great player, your game has to be stable. I couldn’t deliver it at Old Trafford.”
When we got Veron, he was the most expensive signing by a PL team if I remember correctly. It did not matter, high standards applied to everyone. If you did not deliver, you where history. Everyone knew that when they came here. Those who could reach that level of effort, was proud of it. I can’t even remember the last time this club deemed that a player didn’t have it and cut ties with the player (unless it’s like someone like Telles is someone ending up a long way from the starting XI).
"He was always forthright with me, but he had my back from day one, which was very much appreciated. At some points, I wasn’t able to give him everything he expected from me consistently. He got it in a few matches but not in others, and if you want to be a great player, your game has to be stable. I couldn’t deliver it at Old Trafford.”
When we got Veron, he was the most expensive signing by a PL team if I remember correctly. It did not matter, high standards applied to everyone. If you did not deliver, you where history. Everyone knew that when they came here. Those who could reach that level of effort, was proud of it. I can’t even remember the last time this club deemed that a player didn’t have it and cut ties with the player (unless it’s like someone like Telles is someone ending up a long way from the starting XI).
Sums it up perfectly.
He’s 22, with an undoubted high ceiling. We need to exhaust getting it right. People think a transfer is some FIFA simulation.
@AFC NimbleThumb
Why?
If you know anything about SAF and this club you know that the point still stand.
I have three kids, born in 08’, 10’ and 13’. I finished university in 2010, and was working 60-70 hrs a week with 3 kids when SAF retired. I mix up some of those dates. There are a 100 other examples. If you use older examples it’s names 90% of the posters never heard of (I fear), I tried to pick someone as recent as possible and missed by what a year.
Honestly, I have a hard time coming up with a statement that should be less controversy than that SAF demanded very high standards from his players — and if you didn’t meet them, he sold you. And he acted fast. Would SAF have sold Sancho? I don’t know if Sancho would have lived up to those standards.
I apologize if I was a little harsh, but this is really a touchy subject for me. I just cannot understand how we could go from being run like we was under SAF to putting up with some of the crap we have seen the last years, like with Pogba or half the team feeling sorry for themselves because they “have to be here”. If someone doesn’t want to be here, fine, we should sell them instantly. If someone shows up out of shape? Noted, bye.
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SAF retired in 2013, Kagawa left United in 2014, as did Zaha. He never gave up, nor did he sell either player.
18 months of being a total flop, he’s got 6-12 months to turn it round, next season has to be make or break for him.So the same two options as with every player then.
The problem with the mindset of players is down to the fact we went through four managers, all with different play styles, so had to buy players that were tailored to those play styles.
Ten Hag is now building a team with the right mentality, writing Sancho off is plain daft. Sancho is still very, very young and will still make mistakes.
Sancho didn't dictate the fee he was bought for but writing off a young player after being at a club 18 months is just plain daft.
Every young player makes mistakes, its part of the development process.
Running out of time? He's being at United not even 18 months
What he did at Dortmund is irrelevant now, he’s nowhere near the best attacking players in the league and falling down the pecking order at Utd. I hope he turns it round but he does even look remotely close to doing so.
I would be worried about Sancho because he's never played well for england, either. It's not just a man utd thing.
He also kept Anderson around for 5 years.
We cut our Di Maria pretty damn quick. Lukaku and Sanchez too.
I remember when SAF sold Paul Ince. He was what, 28 y/o? He was the leader for us when we won the double, must have been 3 league titles in 4 years. He was the captain of England (at least right around the time, pardon me if he just became it after we sold him).
At least if I remember correctly, SAF felt that he started to get too many distractions. Didn’t SAF call him a Big time Charlie?
We had that goalie who was supposed to replace Schmeichel and got 4 games (in which he performed tremendously horrible, but anyway). Djemba Djemba. Kleberson was a big signing, played for Brazil.
And I am not even saying that Sancho “should” be sold. I actually like how the kid comes across in interviews. I have no idea what his attitude is.
But do I think it would be “daft” to sell Sancho now, despite the fact that we only have given him 18 months? No, I don’t.
At least if I remember correctly, SAF felt that he started to get too many distractions. Didn’t SAF call him a Big time Charlie?
We had that goalie who was supposed to replace Schmeichel and got 4 games (in which he performed tremendously horrible, but anyway). Djemba Djemba. Kleberson was a big signing, played for Brazil.
Fair pts, but those first year or two, it was business as usual. It’s what the last 5-8 years I felt that we really have lost all kind of standards in this regards lately.
And I am not even saying that Sancho “should” be sold. I actually like how the kid comes across in interviews. I have no idea what his attitude is.
But do I think it would be “daft” to sell Sancho now, despite the fact that we only have given him 18 months? No, I don’t.
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He needs the bodyfat levels required for the top level. Doing it in Germany means little these days.
After 2 years he's still not worked that out. Get in shape or I hope United get rid.
After 2 years he's still not worked that out. Get in shape or I hope United get rid.
Plus Pep never really rated him.
The concerns are there, we'd be blind to completely ignore it but it's still early. We have invested a lot in it and he has shown glimpses of it
That is what I have been most disappointed about along of course with the lack of drive or bite in his game, he has never looked in top shape since he came here. Every player goes through a bad patch , they can't control that but you can control your fitness levels.
According to reports he is yet again doing his own training program away from the squad to try and catch up on fitness.
Hopefully that benefits him as it will be very disappointing if he does not use this time to get up to shape like a professional player should be, that should be the easy part.
The more difficult part will be getting a drive and directness in his game.
Huh?
To some extent, the better his team plays the better Sancho will play. Sancho’s technique is definitely world class but he is also a really heads-up player.
When going up against a team that is scrambling to hang on defensively, that gives up space, Sancho will definitely take advantage of it.
I think that Sancho will become better the better the team learns ETHs style and I also think that Garnacho will have his work cut out for him to keep Sancho on the outside looking in — unless Garnacho keeps really challenging the defense and is a consistent goal threat.
With that said, I don’t really see a massive upside with Sancho, and if we can get a good return for him, it’s money that could be used elsewhere.
Last season we wrote off a lot of players like many are doing with Sancho now. People need to understand that not all players can hit the ground running at a young age. Sancho is very talented and I'm confident that with the right guidance things will get better. He may or may not make it as a top player but to write him off now is extremely strange. Some have been doing that with Amad as well, and now he's showing clear signs of improvement on loan. Why the rush to write people off? I trust the standards that ETH has set for the team, and I'm happy for him to take his time with all the young players. Any player who'll fail to meet those standards will be pushed out of the club.
It is really worrying that at this point he doesn’t seem to be fully fit or focused. I suppose he’s gutted at the penalty miss and his stock deteriorating to the point where he missed out on the World Cup squad. I think it’s probably all been too much too soon for him after finding Germany pretty easy. He needs to get into top shape at the very least though. This time off may be a blessing in disguise if he can eventually come back and kick on.
I think being in actual shape would have unlimited benefits for his style of play, mobility and fitness.
Anyone disagreeing just doesn't understand the effect of body composition on an athletes performance.
Keep counting the months and not the bad performances. Doubt his performances get better without getting in shape though.