Sander Berge | Signs for Fulham

[Marwood]

Quite frustrating how player after player is dismissed because they're "Not a DM"

For a player like Berge or Rabiot, should it really be that difficult to become one? Surely it's just a tweak to their natural game. Just hold your position a bit more and there you go. It's not some elusive hard to put your finger on quality.

It's not like we're asking Juan Mata to make the switch.

Someone like Berge, with a bit of coaching could and should easily be able to play the DM role.

 

[CallyRed]

Amrabat -- Berge.
We'll shit em.

 

[3KDré]

Plays like a DM should. Right pass at the right time. Right position at the right time. £15-20m would be solid.

 

[Ish]

Percentiles		Age	Duel%	Def. actions	Prog. carries	Forward passes	Forward pass%	Key passes	Prog. passes	Minutes played
S. McTominay 23/24	Manchester United	27	23.2	45.7	43.2	4.2	45.4	12.2	1.8	2200	x
S. Berge 23/24	Burnley	26	76.8	59.0	80.0	25.2	74.6	36.1	24.0	3370

+ Sander Berge is faster.

Wowzer. Granted, slightly different positions but it just shows that outside of the goals from McT, there’s not a lot of actual midfield stuff he excels at, at this level.

 

[NoNonsense]

Where did you read that? He was 10th in the Premier League when it comes to that one stat alone.


https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5504921/2024/05/19/premier-league-2023-24-alternative-awards/

Based on that, coughing up the £5m Luton wanted for Ross Barkley would have been a much better deal when it comes to rummaging around in the bargain bin.

Of all No.Sixes in the Top Five Leagues in Europe, Berge has the best ball retention rate out of them all.

No player in Europe had a better record last season of winning the ball back for his team, and then finding a teammate with it. He does that 89% of the time.

I don't know how to add a photo to a post, because I've only just joined, but I have an image of the data on that.

Berge hits all metrics United are currently looking for in a No.6.

It is these metrics our scouting department are basing their purchase on. The metrics WE NEED in our team.

Whereas we have this @Craig Ward guy saying 'he was shit for Sheff UTD and Burnley' - the TRUTH is he was Player of The Year AND Fans Player of the Year for BOTH clubs, and while playing for Burnley he came out on top for the metrics we are looking for the most. Out of all major leagues throughout the entirety of Europe.

It bewilders me that a random bloke like Craig thinks he knows better than the most sophisticated recruitment specialist in world football, Christian Vivel.

Bewilders me people are willing to embarrass themselves on the internet with such sweeping drivel.

Berge has EVERYTHING we are looking for in our next No.6 — The best retainer of a football in Europe's top five leagues.

 

[Syphon Wallet]

Wowzer. Granted, slightly different positions but it just shows that outside of the goals from McT, there’s not a lot of actual midfield stuff he excels at, at this level.

McTominay is completely out of his depth as a premier league midfielder.

 

[Cassidy]

Berge is not an obvious dud. Thats just crazy. 6'4 midfielder with great pace, great in the air, very underrated passer who has 5 years of PL and Championship experience, also UCL and Europa experience. He has a high pass completion rate, good at tackling, blocking, intercepting. And his most underrated skill is his progressive running with the ball.

He doesn't need to be our long-term solution at DM, but this is a rebuild and we probably can't shift Casemiro. Berge at 18-23 million is a very good price and would be a terrific option in the squad. He is McTominay with positional awareness and competency on the ball.

Comparing him to Dan James who had only 30 championship games is crazy work.

Maybe you should follow the conversation, I never compared him to Dan James.

Also I have seen enough of Berge, he isn't good enough in my opinion especially not for 30m and 100k a week.

 

[Smores]

It's funny to see people claim Zubimendi isn't actually that good anyway then see the copium of bigging up Sander Berge of all players.

 

[renatosanches85]

Is he though? I’m not a fan of signing Berge as we shouldn’t be targeting a player that’s just been relegated but Mctominay isn’t even a DM. He’s more box to box. So you can’t really compare.

They are both shit, that’s my point. Neither should be near a Man Utd squad. Someone went to the trouble of researching and posting up stats on here comparing the two, I couldn’t be bothered replying. If either of these are considered good enough for Utd it shows how far we have fallen. People on here are so desperate for a signing, any signing, that they’ll convince themselves this fella is a “shrewd” signing. Probably the same people who said Amadou Onana wasn’t technically good enough for us. Sad really.

 

[NoNonsense]

They are both shit, that’s my point. Neither should be near a Man Utd squad. Someone went to the trouble of researching and posting up stats on here comparing the two, I couldn’t be bothered replying. If either of these are considered good enough for Utd it shows how far we have fallen. People on here are so desperate for a signing, any signing, that they’ll convince themselves this fella is a “shrewd” signing. Probably the same people who said Amadou Onana wasn’t technically good enough for us. Sad really.

Eh... Berge has the best retention statistics of any no.6 in all of Europe's Top Five Leagues.

THE BEST.

He is literally number one in Europe at doing the job we are looking to fulfil.

We aren't looking for a flair playmaker like Luca Modric. Or a a swift No.8 like Pirlo. Or a an adaptable midfielder like Paul Scholes. We are looking for a player with a very specific set of attributes. "Win the ball back. Recycle it." There is nobody better in Europe at that, according to the metrics, than Berge. Are Pirlo and Modric and Scholes all better individual footballers than Berge? Absolutely. Would they do a batter job than Berge at winning possession back and recyling it? No.

That's very simple. And bvery basic football understanding. Horses for courses.

We used to win league titles with Darren Fletcher playing this role for us... Was Darren Fletcher better than Gerrard? Nope. Did he win a lot more than Gerrard? Yep.

Horses for courses. Football is not about getting the best eleven individuals into a team.

I can't believe I have to explain that to an adult.

The other fella saying we shouldn't be signing a player who's just been relegated. Can somebody rewind to 1994 and tell Notts Forest we're not interested in Roy Keane anymore?

 

[Highfather_24]

It's funny to see people claim Zubimendi isn't actually that good anyway then see the copium of bigging up Sander Berge of all players.

Yeah. At this point, I'm so desperate I wouldnt even complain if we got him for 20M, because that's better than no signing/Amrabat.

 

[Fortitude]

Eh... Berge has the best retention statistics of any no.6 in all of Europe's Top Five Leagues.

THE BEST.

He is literally number one in Europe at doing the job we are looking to fulfil.

We aren't looking for a flair playmaker like Luca Modric. Or a a swift No.8 like Pirlo. Or a an adaptable midfielder like Paul Scholes. We are looking for a player with a very specific set of attributes. "Win the ball back. Recycle it." There is nobody better in Europe at that, according to the metrics, than Berge. Are Pirlo and Modric and Scholes all better individual footballers than Berge? Absolutely. Would they do a batter job than Berge at winning possession back and recyling it? No.

That's very simple. And bvery basic football understanding. Horses for courses.

We used to win league titles with Darren Fletcher playing this role for us... Was Darren Fletcher better than Gerrard? Nope. Did he win a lot more than Gerrard? Yep.

Horses for courses. Football is not about getting the best eleven individuals into a team.

I can't believe I have to explain that to an adult.

The other fella saying we shouldn't be signing a player who's just been relegated. Can somebody rewind to 1994 and tell Notts Forest we're not interested in Roy Keane anymore?

Can you stop with the pot shots, otherwise you’ll find your stay on the site short lived.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[RussellWilson]

Plays like a DM should. Right pass at the right time. Right position at the right time. £15-20m would be solid.

Seems Burnley have been playing him more as a DM. He's very good at covering the half spaces between fullback and centre back. Also very rangy to cut things out. He looks like the best fit of the options we have by far.

 

[Mcking]

All this does is make me irrationally dislike any of the muppets that suggest McTominay is important and needs to be kept just because he fluked his way to a few more goals than normal.

fecking embarassing for a 6'4 supposed hard man midfielder having a 23% duel win rate while not being able to pass a ball forward either.

McTominay is genuinely in the conversation for the worst central midfielder in the Premier League at being an actual central midfielder. The only reason he is not in conversation for the worst midfielder overall is his attacking threat. We should completely keep him away from central midfield if he stays.

 

[Leftback99]

Plays like a DM should. Right pass at the right time. Right position at the right time. £15-20m would be solid.

Nothing flashy but I think he's the type of player this side needs alongside Mainoo. The question is whether he's the best we can can for the lack of funds available.

 

[Castia]

A side that finished 8th and we’re adding rotation level players to the squad? Berge, Zikzee and Yoro is a terrible summer that hardly improves a starting 11 that just had one if their worst every PL campaigns.

Not really sure what this summers plan was but it’s looking like a massive failure at this stage.

 

[dubplate warrior]

The only reason why this deal makes sense is if Collyer is ear marked for a much bigger role in the first team and Berge is going to be his backup. Huge huge risk.

Berge is a different kind of player and frankly better than Collyer.

 

[Mcking]

Seems Burnley have been playing him more as a DM. He's very good at covering the half spaces between fullback and centre back. Also very rangy to cut things out. He looks like the best fit of the options we have by far.

Agreed. Defensive discipline, ball winning, ball retention, passing range, ground duels, aerial duels. He is the exact profile we need in midfield. Question is if he can dial it up a few more levels, but I feel more comfortable with him than Ugarte and Fofana both of whom I feel would become problems for us in terms of balance in midfield.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Hopefully the initial talks were “Hey Burnley, your player called Berge is shit and we don’t want him”

 

[steeeb]

A side that finished 8th and we’re adding rotation level players to the squad? Berge, Zikzee and Yoro is a terrible summer that hardly improves a starting 11 that just had one if their worst every PL campaigns.

Not really sure what this summers plan was but it’s looking like a massive failure at this stage.

The two main issues are overpaid deadweights and lack of squad depth.

We simply cannot get top level players in without all the deadweight being moved on for good money (which will never happen, we'd be lucky to get them off the books for free in a lot of cases). Where does the money come from for FFP to do this?

The only thing we can do is change the wage structure going forward and try to get rid of said players, so that in the future we have money to work with to buy top talent.

The best we can do at the moment is buy squad players at good prices on good wages and some younger players and put time in to developing the younger players we also have (either to be future squad players, or to sell to get some money to buy the players we need).

What we need simply cannot happen with FFP.

 

[fe33er]

MEDIA=twitter]1821326570490843263[/MEDIA

Plays like a DM should. Right pass at the right time. Right position at the right time. £15-20m would be solid.

Looks clumsy and not great on the ball. It’s more of a squad number rather than a certain starter for me with him.

 

[Rojofiam]

Those who don't want Berge (but cannot really provide valid reasons), what was your reaction to Liverpool signing Endo last season and him proving himself as a good, short-term stop-gap signing?

 

[Berbaclass]

I find this interesting. I remember when Sheff Utd got him and people were interested in him then.

I wouldn't be against getting him

 

[Erics_Collar]

Those who don't want Berge (but cannot really provide valid reasons), what was your reaction to Liverpool signing Endo last season and him proving himself as a good, short-term stop-gap signing?

It's not that I don't want him, I just don't want him as our only midfield signing which is what it seems like he would be.

Liverpool addressed their midfield last year by signing Mac Allister, Szzbzbzbzslai, Gravenberch and Endo. Endo was never going to be first choice and only started half their PL games. I don't think it's a fair comparison when the midfield signing we need is someone to come in and be first choice immediately.

 

[Castia]

Those who don't want Berge (but cannot really provide valid reasons), what was your reaction to Liverpool signing Endo last season and him proving himself as a good, short-term stop-gap signing?

Liverpool signed him to be exactly that though we need a quality DM our midfield has been walked through last season and relying on Casemiro this season will cost us

We’ll just end up with 2 mediocre players in midfield rather than the quality we need

 

[sullydnl]

Those who don't want Berge (but cannot really provide valid reasons), what was your reaction to Liverpool signing Endo last season and him proving himself as a good, short-term stop-gap signing?

Was just about to make that comparison.

A fairly unknown DM from a team who finished 16th in the Bundesliga, signed for 20m-ish because Liverpool didn't obtain their main targets in the position. Not an inspiring signing, but one that filled an immediate need in the squad.

Berge arguably a slightly more attractive profile of signing too given he's 26 rather than 30, and has PL experience.

However, the counter-argument might be that by signing Szoboszlai and Mac Allister in the same window they had strengthened their immediate starting eleven more than we'll have done even if we end up signing all of Zirzee, Yoro, Berge, De Ligt and Mazraoui. On top of that they had also signed Gravenberch (which didn't work out, but they didn't know that at the time) and had made the Gakpo signing intended for the summer early by signing him in January.

In other words a Endo/Berge type deal gets judged in the context of the overall window. If people are happy that we've done enough with other signings, they'll probably be more tolerant of pragmatic ones filling out the squad.

 

[BluesJr]

Immediately becomes our 2nd best midfielder if he comes in behind Mainoo. Unbelievable statement but it’s true. How did we manage to get the only Dutch manager in history that wants to ignore midfield? Why do we have such a midfield curse dating back over a decade? When will it end? Sigh.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Saw something about Burnley wanting £30m now which is example number 4000 of clubs trying to extort us because of who we are. Someone like Spurs or West Ham gets him for £20m or less and I am very confident about that.

I'd walk away for £30m. Silly feckers.

To be fair I think many clubs in England now know that United is not the only game in town, Westham paid £40m for Kilman, Spurs paid £60m for Richarlison, Newcastle will pay upward of £60m for Guehi, City & Arsenal paid 100m for Grealish and Rice respectively, I don't think clubs in England care who is the buyer, be United or any of the top 6 or clubs like Aston Villa, Westham and Newcastle (Saudi owners I know), especially since the TV money enabled clubs other than the big 6 to pay high fees (40m++).

On Sander though, you might be right perhaps we still have the reputation of spunking big fees on mediocre players

 

[r0663664]

I have never seen him play but base on some clips, he looks like solid players. For 20 mil, I think he is worth it.

 

[Hughie77]

This is the guy I think that might come in.. if the price is tidy , no more that £20million with small add ons imo... sell Mctom to Fulham for just over that would be great .. this happens if we get the LB and CB from Bayern imo..

 

[NLunited]

I see a parallel here between giving the ball away so much last season and our interest in Berge and Ugarte. Both are safe passers and good at keeping the ball under pressure.

Some of the criticism of Berge in here is mental. You don‘t become the fan‘s favorite (Sheffield) and player of the year (Burnley) if you are shite.

I can see this guy coming in in addition to McT or as a replacement. They don‘t play the same position, but have a similar physical profile.

 

[SSSSnake]

Damn the players we are getting linked with are just not elite are they? Started the window strong and looks like we’ll get Amribat and this guy now to battle top 8. The clubs a mess and I’m trying not to panic but can you blame me or any other fan right now?

Just seen Mark Goldbridge moaning today and to be honest I’m surprised he hasn’t moaned sooner.

 

[Berbaclass]

Damn the players we are getting linked with are just not elite are they? Started the window strong and looks like we’ll get Amribat and this guy now to battle top 8. The clubs a mess and I’m trying not to panic but can you blame me or any other fan right now?

Just seen Mark Goldbridge moaning today and to be honest I’m surprised he hasn’t moaned sooner.

We finished 8th last year. Wer are in no position to target 'elite' players. Money is tight.

 

[Rojofiam]

It's not that I don't want him, I just don't want him as our only midfield signing which is what it seems like he would be.

Liverpool addressed their midfield last year by signing Mac Allister, Szzbzbzbzslai, Gravenberch and Endo. Endo was never going to be first choice and only started half their PL games. I don't think it's a fair comparison when the midfield signing we need is someone to come in and be first choice immediately.

Liverpool signed him to be exactly that though we need a quality DM our midfield has been walked through last season and relying on Casemiro this season will cost us

We’ll just end up with 2 mediocre players in midfield rather than the quality we need

Whether or not Berge would be our only midfield signing this summer, the point is that he's probably not coming in as a long-term target to have a long-term future at the club as a key player. That can only happen if he proves himself to be good enough for that, which would be great, but it wouldn't be what he's originally being bought for.

I also don't think the player/players we want to address the midfield with are available this summer, so no matter who we decide to bring in now, they're not going to be perfect and exactly what we're looking for...at least I think that would be the case with Zubimendi (he would be a good signing IMO, just not necessarily a great one), Ugarte, and every player we've been linked with. I'd even argue that from the list of players that have been mentioned, Berge and Fofana, two of the cheaper options, might very well be the two best fits for us stylistically, considering what we need to complement Bruno and Mainoo. And if we get a decent midfielder for cheap this summer, that will raise the floor, but not the ceiling of the squad, then we'll have more room for the ceiling-raiser big player to be brought in, in one of the next summers beyond this one.

Let's say we want Adam Wharton. In all likelihood, he's a much better player and fit for our midfield, than the players we could get this summer. It's just much more sensible planning to have a cheap, decent option come in now and from both a financial and squad building point of view, we'll have more room for a quality ceiling-raiser in the future. Offloading Berge will be way easier as well, if he does even half-decent at United, than someone on higher wages.

Was just about to make that comparison.

A fairly unknown DM from a team who finished 16th in the Bundesliga, signed for 20m-ish because Liverpool didn't obtain their main targets in the position. Not an inspiring signing, but one that filled an immediate need in the squad.

Berge arguably a slightly more attractive profile of signing too given he's 26 rather than 30, and has PL experience.

However, the counter-argument might be that by signing Szoboszlai and Mac Allister in the same window they had strengthened their immediate starting eleven more than we'll have done even if we end up signing all of Zirzee, Yoro, Berge, De Ligt and Mazraoui. On top of that they had also signed Gravenberch (which didn't work out, but they didn't know that at the time) and had made the Gakpo signing intended for the summer early by signing him in January.

In other words a Endo/Berge type deal gets judged in the context of the overall window. If people are happy that we've done enough with other signings, they'll probably be more tolerant of pragmatic ones filling out the squad.

I agree. Also with Berge, due to his age, he can be either a long-term squad player for us, or we can sell for profit or we can break even on the transfer fee, if he's decent for us.

I think we need to be doing more deals like this one potentially would be. We can't fill the squad with only 50-60+ million players, because not every signing will work out. And it will be hard to get rid of the expensive flops on high wages. What if Ugarte doesn't work out for 50m and 150k/week, when we are already having difficulty selling 60m Casemiro on 350k/week? That's how you get an inflated wage bill, because the team doesn't play well or get the results they're expected to get.

 

[sullydnl]

I see a parallel here between giving the ball away so much last season and our interest in Berge and Ugarte. Both are safe passers and good at keeping the ball under pressure.

Some of the criticism of Berge in here is mental. You don‘t become the fan‘s favorite (Sheffield) and player of the year (Burnley) if you are shite.

I can see this guy coming in in addition to McT or as a replacement. They don‘t play the same position, but have a similar physical profile.

Not qualified to comment on the standard of Sheffield United's fan favourites, but I'm quite confident that if you list out Burnley's recent POTS winners it would do very little for the argument that they can't be shite by Manchester United standards.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Of all No.Sixes in the Top Five Leagues in Europe, Berge has the best ball retention rate out of them all.

No player in Europe had a better record last season of winning the ball back for his team, and then finding a teammate with it. He does that 89% of the time.

I don't know how to add a photo to a post, because I've only just joined, but I have an image of the data on that.

Berge hits all metrics United are currently looking for in a No.6.

It is these metrics our scouting department are basing their purchase on. The metrics WE NEED in our team.

Whereas we have this @Craig Ward guy saying 'he was shit for Sheff UTD and Burnley' - the TRUTH is he was Player of The Year AND Fans Player of the Year for BOTH clubs, and while playing for Burnley he came out on top for the metrics we are looking for the most. Out of all major leagues throughout the entirety of Europe.

It bewilders me that a random bloke like Craig thinks he knows better than the most sophisticated recruitment specialist in world football, Christian Vivel.

Bewilders me people are willing to embarrass themselves on the internet with such sweeping drivel.

Berge has EVERYTHING we are looking for in our next No.6 — The best retainer of a football in Europe's top five leagues.

What metrics are United looking for?

You mentioned ball retention and winning the ball back? What are the others?

 

[NLunited]

Not qualified to comment on the standard of Sheffield United's fan favourites, but I'm quite confident that if you list out Burnley's recent POTS winners it would do very little for the argument that they can't be shite by Manchester United standards.

Ok the actual comment was that Berge was shite for Sheffield and Burnley. Clearly he wasn‘t.

 

[Iffin]

As a City supporter and vinny Kompany ‘fanboy’ I have watched a lot of Burnley games over the last two seasons.

In that time Berg has always impressed me given that Burnley were always going to struggle in the EPL and the level of his team mates.

A problem City have had in the last two years is finding a good enough backup to Rodri, Kalvin Phillips has never been trusted by Pep so Rodri is overplayed way too much.

While watching Burnley I came to the conclusion I wouldn’t be appalled, or surprised if City went in for Berg, I really do rate him.

If Utd could get him for around £20-22m I reckon that would be good business, I can only see Berg improving with better players around him.

If Burnley are hard-balling hoping for a Utd premium payday, perhaps offering the player something like £110k wages could get Berg putting pressure on the club to sell.

Either way I don’t think up to £22m would be a massive gamble, you would get a very decent player, brings experience, probably wouldn’t mind being rotated offer more confidence to the back four.

 

[SSSSnake]

We finished 8th last year. Wer are in no position to target 'elite' players. Money is tight.

So that’s it then is it? We finished 8th so can’t target any elite player?