Having bad game I take it
Sandro Tonali
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
I just hope the board has some sense. Tonali has some promise, but his performance this season doesn't justify the fee being thrown around.
I think that's the market right now and unfortunately I think Newcastle would want a bit more than that.
He's a good player but at the moment not a 100m player.
Do you think Wharton and Baleba would cost as much? If not, I'd probably go for those two.
Wharton might be the more reasonably priced option of the two. Brighton would still try and fleece us for 80m for Baleba.
Either way the fix to our engine room is not going to come cheap regardless of which options we go for.
Not really - he almost sent Italy to the world cup with a brilliant through ball.
I’m team Bruno G and Baleba but if its between Tonali and Anderson I’d rather we sign Tonali.
If Baleba and Tonali go for the same amount, who would you prefer?
For me, Tonali. I saw flashes of greatness in Baleba last season -- and none this season -- but I've been watching Tonali closely since he was at Milan. His quality is immense and he's been consistently outstanding for Milan and Newcastle.
It's hard to see Tonali wanting to remain at Newcastle for much longer, though he will respect the club in how he handles his move to a bigger club, whichever it may be. Baleba has the edge in terms of his age and if United feel they need someone who can grow into the job and isn't the polished gem, they may go with the player for the future they can believe in.
For what little it may be worth, Baleba is another AFCON flight risk.
As has been mentioned every time this gets brought up still - Afcon has moved back to summer months, plus being every 4 years.
Tonali 100%. He's got Daniele De Rossi regen written all over him IMO.
The World Cup won’t interfere with a transfer, if it is to happen. I think it’s extremely likely that we’re getting Baleba. If we put a good offer in early for Tonali, I could see Newcastle accepting after their fiasco of holding out so long with Isak last summer. It would be nice to get two midfielders in nice and early.
Hope he didn't put on any bets on himself playing at the World Cup
Is fantastic whenever I've seen him play, would be great to have in midfield. I'm just not sure how good he'll be as a pure number 6 alongside Mainoo and Bruno.
Wow! High praise, indeed. I just look at Tonali, and he doesn’t seem to stand out in any one area - more of a jack of all trades, master of none. Maybe that’s exactly the kind of player we’re after, but I watched the pivot of Mainoo and Anderson yesterday, and there was so much space through the midfield because neither has the positional awareness of a proper number 6. Tonali gives me the same impression.
Whether Baleba is the one to come in and marshal the defence or not, I feel we really need someone who sits in front of the backline, distributes intelligently, reads the game well, and can put out any fires. Is that Tonali? Not sure if it is. That said, if Tonali has Scholes’ seal of approval, who am I to argue?
Could Wharton be that guy? I quite like what I've seen of him. He shouldn't be more expensive than Tonali either.
Absolutely. Wharton paired with Tonali or Baleba would give us a solid balance in midfield. Add Mainoo into the mix, along with another industrious, hard-working midfielder, and you’ve got a balanced group.
My dream four for two slots are Mainoo, Anderson/Wharton, Baleba and no.1 is Tonali. Tonali is the best and most consistent of those, Anderson/Wharton for up and coming England regular, Mainoo we know what he can do and Baleba I genuinely think will recapture his form in a new environment
We need four top players as we’ll have more comps, more things to fight for, and those four players can potentially also fill all three midfield slots, giving Bruno a rest.
Regardless I think Tonali is the best player we can get in this window that I think is close to guaranteed to be good. The others all have a bit of a risk. I see him like Cunha and Mbuemo in that regard
Of course if we did buy three midfielders and spend £250m on them, I’d be happy with that being our only business. It’s that important
We need four top players as we’ll have more comps, more things to fight for, and those four players can potentially also fill all three midfield slots, giving Bruno a rest.
Regardless I think Tonali is the best player we can get in this window that I think is close to guaranteed to be good. The others all have a bit of a risk. I see him like Cunha and Mbuemo in that regard
Of course if we did buy three midfielders and spend £250m on them, I’d be happy with that being our only business. It’s that important
Wharton "absolutely" the guy that "reads the game well, and can put out any fires"?!...
I think of Wharton as being more like a not completely ideal potential Bruno Fernandes successor; without any of the goalscoring.
Looked good last night.
Wharton a Bruno successor? No chance. Completely different players.Wharton "absolutely" the guy that "reads the game well, and can put out any fires"?!...
I think of Wharton as being more like a not completely ideal potential Bruno Fernandes successor; without any of the goalscoring.
If we could get him for 70 million I think it'd be a no-brainer. I doubt Newcastle will let him go for that, though.
At least we don't have to pay the World Cup fee for him now.
Why? They both specialise at slotting final passes in to the forwards.
Wharton is also pretty strong at set pieces.
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Not that I would definitely take Wharton as a Bruno successor, mind. The lack of goal scoring is currently a big miss.
Was the only Italian that scored a penalty. Watching him take it I thought “it’d be just like us to sign a player that player that misses an important penalty”. But he didn’t.
I mean I’m no expert at stats and stuff but I’ve watched both of them play loads of times and they’re not close to being similar players. Wharton is not an attacking player.Why? They both specialise at slotting final passes in to the forwards.
Wharton is also pretty strong at set pieces.
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Not that I would definitely take Wharton as a Bruno successor, mind. The lack of goal scoring is currently a big miss.
I would rather skip on Tonali and get Hall from Newcastle tbh. Then look at the other targets we have for midfield.
Really feel that Hall is gonna be a top tier full back in future, and we shouldn't miss out. I'm still unsure about Tonali, by comparison.
Really feel that Hall is gonna be a top tier full back in future, and we shouldn't miss out. I'm still unsure about Tonali, by comparison.
Yesterdays Athletic report said we are unlikely to bid for him as Newcastle will want a fee similar to Rice-Caicaido-Enzo.
Then again Newcastle need to make £133mil of sales this summer for PSR as UEFA rejected the hotel sale or whatever it was.
One immediate benefit of signing a Tonali or Baleba is that neither are at the WC, so should have a good summers rest.
Wharton "absolutely" the guy that "reads the game well, and can put out any fires"?!...
I think of Wharton as being more like a not completely ideal potential Bruno Fernandes successor; without any of the goalscoring.
The original question was whether he could become that kind of player and without diving into stats, I think it’s definitely possible.
It would’ve been interesting to look back at Carrick’s numbers when he joined from Spurs and try to predict what he’d become. I doubt the stats alone would’ve convinced us that he'd go on to be the player he was.
That’s he issue now. We’re so focused on data that we forget to actually watch what a player brings on the pitch. Take Tonali, for example. Statistically, he doesn’t stand out, but players like Scholes rate him highly, and if the rumours are true, so does Bruno.
Sometimes, the eye test still matters more than the spreadsheet.
100%.
100 million for Tonali is crazy business, but then again they were able to get a mental fee for Isak so more power to them if they can convince a club to spend like that.
Scholes also wanted United to keep Hojlund in the summer, and thought swapping him for Sesko lacked "common sense"...
His opinion is definitely not infallible.
https://tribuna.com/en/news/2025-10...s-questions-hojlundsesko-swap-for-man-united/
https://www.goal.com/en/lists/paul-...nfidence-stricken-striker/blt99a7009b21a85151
And with the way Tonali's agent is pimping out his client, without direct certified quotes and wider context I'm not convinced by the Fernandes story.
As for the eye test; watching Tonali in recent weeks vs United and Barca for Newcastle, and vs Bosnia and N.I. for Italy, amongst other previous games, I've still not been that impressed. Joelinton had more of an impact in midfield vs United. He was terrible defensively vs Barca. His passing has looked a mess for Italy. He did pop up with one really good finish for Italy, but has yet to score in the PL this season.
If United managed to sign Anderson, then Tonali came in as a 2nd choice back-up/squad player for 60mil, with United also being able to add an exciting prospect as the 3rd midfield signing, I wouldn't entirely hate it. Even then though there are others I would prefer as a 2nd choice CM. Mainly I just don't see Tonali as having the quality, impact, control and influence on matches to be the kind of first choice, marquee signing both he and the fee would seemingly demand.
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Wharton's biggest strength is in chance creation via passes, including creating chances around the opponents' penalty box. Looking at his stats and general play he clearly excels at this. It's also the same biggest strength as that of Bruno Fernandes. There is a clear similarity (also don't forget that Bruno also often drops deep from his 10 role to dictate play).
Despite playing for Palace, Wharton is 97th percentile for CMs for 'Open-play big chances created' and 73rd percentile for 'Actions within 20metre radius of opponents' goal' (Bruno is 100th and 96th percentile for these).
By contrast, defending is Wharton's biggest weakness. He is fairly passive and weak off the ball, and his stats reflect that, eg Wharton is 36th percentile for 'Padj tackles + interceptions' and 35th percentile for 'Blocked Shots'.
Putting this together, he's clearly someone you'd much prefer in the attacking areas of the pitch than in the defensive areas of the pitch; his strengths and weaknesses lean more towards him being attacking than defending.
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Wharton can not play as a CAM. He’s not mobile enough, not agile enough, doesn’t score enough. You can create chances from open play without playing further forward. There is not a team in the world that would start him as a 10.
Doesn't score enough is the big one right now - and I've already highlighted it.
I don't understand your other two points though - why do you need to be any more mobile or agile as a 10 than as an 8 (his current role)?
The stats are showing that he is already creating lots of chances from open play in the further forward areas of the pitch: I'll repeat, despite playing for a bottom-half team in Palace he is already at 73rd percentile for 'Actions within 20metre radius of opponents' goal'.
Criticising his agility is also really bizarre; he's plenty agile enough. He more lacks pace and strength, which tends to be more a hinderance for defensive midfielders than for 10s (eg Bernardo Silva is hardly a powerhouse).
It's April fools day, surely it's a aprils fools day joke to use Wharton as a 10.
Wharton might cover us well for a post-Bruno era where we can't be so reliant on a pure #10 to create everything for us and we need some passing/creative quality throughout the team to compensate - maybe we end up using 433 with two 8s more often in a post-Bruno world.
I'm back and forth on this. Initially I was sceptical but he'd make a great alternative to Mainoo at the moment as he provides a passing range we don't currently have. But a lot of the fans obsession is finding midfielders that complement Mainoo rather than accepting he might not be a starter. And if Wharton costs £100m for a player we can't really partner with Mainoo it might not be a wise investment.
I know its the Tonali thread but we were talking about Wharton
I just used Tonali as an example because you said Wharton's stats aren't great, which is I agree with.He’s agile enough for the position he plays- deep lying playmaker. He’s a DLP, not a 10. A 10 needs to be more agile, have quick feet and burts in small spaces with a good sharp turn on him + lead the press, a DLP just needs to be mobile enough to survive transitions and be press resistant.
I’m sure he creates chances in the final third, that still doesn’t mean he could play the Bruno role in a team.
Think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree and let the thread get back to discussions about Tonali.
This just stinks of profiling a player off stats alone.
Wharton and Bruno aren't anything alike as players.