I'm certain that's the highest we would pay inc add ons, feel relaxed as believe we can get him or Anderson for right fee
Sandro Tonali
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
We will miss the threat that casemiro has been in the air with all the headers he has scored. Tonsli cant replace that.
Sorry. I really see him as a 50m player. This talk of people okay with us paying up to 80m is just sadden me.
Prices have skyrocketed, which I understand, but I don’t see him as a starter for a team aiming to compete for the title.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Still say we haven't seen best of him at Newcastle bar maybe the odd few occasions, however honestly believe that player at AC Milan is still in there
That's what we heard about De Ligt. Usually by the time guys are 25 or 26, they are who they are. He's a good player, but £70-80M and big wages is asking for the whole thing to end in shambles. He's not a star.
let’s play pretend.
United sign Tonali for 70-100m. He proceeds to play like he’s done this year. United’s results mirror Newcastle this year (currently 12th).
How much will we get for him if we tried to sell?
United sign Tonali for 70-100m. He proceeds to play like he’s done this year. United’s results mirror Newcastle this year (currently 12th).
How much will we get for him if we tried to sell?
Much like how Arsenal started finishing in lower midtable when they signed Rice from West Ham?
I don't rate Tonali compared to some of the others we're linked with, but this just isn't how football works at all.
He's neither an attacking player nor a good defensive player. He also doesn't influence the game a lot with the ball apart from sporadic moments. He's a nothing player that will be exposed when he leaves Palace.
Way to totally miss the point. The inference isn’t “United will perform like Newcastle if they sign Tonali”
it’s “Tonali is over valued considering he’s struggled in a struggling team this year. No United midfielder would receive a similar valuation in the same position”
To that point Rice was overvalued but at least he was coming off a good season for West ham and a historic cup win for that club.
That's pretty much exactly what you said...
Whenever I watch games he seems to do alot more in his general play compared to Anderson
So if the fee is around the same for both id rather Tonali.
So if the fee is around the same for both id rather Tonali.
We paid a British transfer record for Roy Keane who was relegated with Forest.
I guess I’m just curious why Tonali seems to be pinned with the overwhelming majority of the blame for why Newcastle are a mid table side this year, while Anderson gets gold star plaudits playing for a relegation contender.
I understand that you would really prefer to buy anyone off of a massively impressive campaign instead of buying them off of a potential down year, and I also understand not wanting to spend big bucks on a player with such perceived limitations and downside, but I definitely feel like we’re reaching hyperbolic rhetoric with this guy.
There were no shortage of suitors for Mainoo when he was locked away in Amorim’s Asylum. Tonali has played a ton of heavy minutes across four competitions for a side that has very minimal squad depth. Do we not think he would maybe come into a better environment and look a bit more comfortable and thrive a bit?
I understand that you would really prefer to buy anyone off of a massively impressive campaign instead of buying them off of a potential down year, and I also understand not wanting to spend big bucks on a player with such perceived limitations and downside, but I definitely feel like we’re reaching hyperbolic rhetoric with this guy.
There were no shortage of suitors for Mainoo when he was locked away in Amorim’s Asylum. Tonali has played a ton of heavy minutes across four competitions for a side that has very minimal squad depth. Do we not think he would maybe come into a better environment and look a bit more comfortable and thrive a bit?
If you’ve seen them both play extensively, it should be pretty obvious. Anderson is miles better than Tonali.
Newcastle are where they are because their attack has been blunt since Isak went and their defence and keeper have been poor. Their midfield is the only quality they really have, and they'd be competing with Spurs and West Ham for the drop if it was on the same level as their defence and attack.
How much of that can be credited to Tonali is a different question (personally, I think Bruno G looks on a different level when you watch them), but you can't really dismiss a player out of hand because the team as a whole have been poor. Anderson from Forest will move for big money this summer having stood out for a worse team.
Is he?
I'd say Tonali is comfortably the better player technically - Anderson seems much more realistic though and is a bit younger. If both were the same price I think Tonali is the obvious winner.
Yes. Tonali has him on shooting (imo), nothing else. Oh, and engine.
Yeah does seem he's being blamed by many in here for Newcastle's poor season. I think a lot of it is people are hurt that Anderson is likely snubbing us for City
I'd put Tonali above him in most areas outside some of the more physcial aspects and aerial. I just think he's not an option whereas Anderson looks set to move this summer (Baleba, Anderson, the Wolves gang all seem genuine transfers that will happen).
I feel he's definitely an option
I'll refer you to this very detailed stats comparison between them for this season which I posted here a week ago:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/sandro-tonali.491274/post-34151933
Summary: Anderson scores better than Tonali at basically everything aside from 'set pieces' and 'shooting', and the latter is highly debatable given that Anderson has ended up scoring more PL goals this season so far and his 'quality of finishing' score is understandably higher.
In passing and defensive attributes, Anderson is comfortably ahead.
Sounds like this is really tough for folks to grasp.
I laid out two conditional assumptions to test a thesis. “How much will we get for him IF A & B were true?”. I hope that simplifies things.
Not sure why this is controversial. Simply providing a counter argument to his (over)valuation. I personally don’t think he’s performed that well this season. That said, he has a valuable skill set. I would be happy with the signing if we got him at a reasonable price.
Tonali is definitely a realistic signing. I think he's clearly the 2nd choice on the list as City are the likeliest to get Anderson. I'd say Anderson is pretty consistently rated higher across the league (and rightly so).
Tonali hasn't shown to do much with the ball. It might be situational, but that's the reality in his career. He doesn't progress the ball much, he doesn't get on it much, he doesn't dictate games with passing, he doesn't create, etc. Anderson despite playing for Forest grades extremely well in pretty much all these passing metrics. He's just been a better midfielder in the premier league.
You can dress it up how you like, your initial post sounds like you were saying signing Tonali will get us mid table. Perhaps try wording it differently next time.
Has there been any link from a good source? I feel we're mostly basing it off the player supposedly being 'open' to it. That alone is somewhat irrelevant given Newcastle are rich and can resist us financially
It's the opposite if you look on sofascore FYI - Tonali batters him in basically every stat. It's worth pointing out - and I feel I always end up saying this when I interact with you - for two players who play in different teams with different roles, just lining up a load of stats really means sweet F all. You have to watch them and understand what they are trying to do at a basic level and judge how they are on the ball off the ball. This is more about what United need in honesty and he real focus needs to be on someone who is much better on the ball than Case whilst being more mobile - Tonali would tick both these boxes, Anderson would not in my opinion. I like Anderson, I think he would do very well in our current system but maybe be less great if we try to play more expansively, I think Tonali plays well in both setups.
Fortunately your comprehension is your responsibility.
I don't understand
Quick response to this is. Newcastle still have to comply with Squad Cost Ratio rules and are going to take a hit on their revenue next season now they have once again dropped out of European competition, the relative wealth of ownership is not a factor and the 115 playbook is not an option following rules being tightened in that regard. They tried to get around it by selling their stadium to themselves a la Chelsea only to find that loophole is closed too.
So, they face a season without European football when they were allegedly budgetting to be a regular UCL participant after last seasons qualification. They blew the Isak money and then some on Woltemade and Wissa who are not fit for purpose and they have a squad that features a lot of aging players that need replacing. Their shopping list includes a pressing need for replacements for Pope, Trippier, Schar and potentially Burn and at least one if not two strikers with very few clubs lining up to bail them out on the mistakes they made with Wissa, Woltemade and to some degree Elanga. It can probably wait another year or so but Joelinton and Murphy are no spring chickens either with Joelinton especially showing significant signs that the wear and tear of playing like a maniacal thug is catching up with him. They badly need to sell either Bruno G or Tonali to fund some of this and if they sell Bruno G the fans will riot as they quite rightly should. Tonali is very much for sale this window but whether he is worth the likely asking price is another story altogether.
The alternative is they hold onto their stars, try and go cheap and see if there is any more juice in the squeeze with their existing squad. If they go that route I can't see them finishing higher than 15th next year.
O rly?
Then please explain why Anderson has a sofascore PL season rating of 7.29, while Tonali's is 6.94?!...
Sofascore's stats are also less detailed and advanced than the set I posted anyway.
That rules out Tonali then.
I've watched 5 of Tonali's last 7 games. Have you?!...
I guess you did understand, as you copied his post and deleted the ‘IF’ sentence. ‘Let’s play pretend’.I don't understand
You probably would have left it in if you didn’t understand it was the evidence of your miscomprehension in the forst place, I’d guess.
Theres no conspiracy it was singling out the specific part of the quote in question, will happily go back and quote his entire post if that makes you happier? Think the fact a couple of people reached the same conclusion would probably suggest it came across a certain way but go off.
This thread is just becoming an argument fest between fans who want him and fans who think he's average
That is every thread in the transfer forum.
Name a transfer thread that isn’t
True, just some seem more split than others
I'm with you. I think if we've missed out on Anderson who I like a lot, Tonali and a gamble on someone like Stiller who can also play a bit would totally transform our ability to play through teams in the centre and keep control of the ball. Both can playmake and they haven't hit their prime yet but aren't far off it.
If we can get him for sensible (ish) money I think he's a no brainer as the second choice marquee midfielder and for me it shows the standards and practices at the club are genuinely rising when we have a list targeting the right kinds of players and having sensible backup options in place. Players who look like they can handle the pressure of playing at Utd and hopefully go up a few levels
Every one of the Newcastle forum's comments in the Tonali thread after their game vs Palace today. Unfiltered, uncut, unedited:
"can feck off.
really needed to step up today in Bruno's absence.
no interest in putting in an effort today.
disgraceful few weeks.
come out and say it if you dont want to be here.
so glad the fecker got knocked out of the world cup."
"I just worry his poor performances will mean we don't get as much as we should. The lo and behold he activates beast mode at whichever cartel club he ends up at. "
"We have seen how good he can be - sadly we've not seen the best of him very often this season."
"I don't know if he's downed tools or what but he's been stinking out the joint all season. Losing him isn't going to be the colossal blow I thought it would be"
"He's a big part of the reason why we can't control games or keep the ball for toffee. Another one who'd smash the Premier League School Sports Day competition if it was ever span up but is about as much of a technical footballer as I am an astronaut."
"It'll be interesting to see whether the club has learned the lessons of the past . Tonali's value is artificially high . As is Livramento's (significant spells out with injury). We should be looking to sell if the prices rumoured are true . Same for Gordon if it's 80 million up."
"His best was very much a purple patch last season.
Most of his time here he's been pretty average"
"I really don't think he's that good on the ball, more legs than anything."
https://newcastle-online.org/topic/37798-sandro-tonali/page/671/
"can feck off.
really needed to step up today in Bruno's absence.
no interest in putting in an effort today.
disgraceful few weeks.
come out and say it if you dont want to be here.
so glad the fecker got knocked out of the world cup."
"I just worry his poor performances will mean we don't get as much as we should. The lo and behold he activates beast mode at whichever cartel club he ends up at. "
"We have seen how good he can be - sadly we've not seen the best of him very often this season."
"I don't know if he's downed tools or what but he's been stinking out the joint all season. Losing him isn't going to be the colossal blow I thought it would be"
"He's a big part of the reason why we can't control games or keep the ball for toffee. Another one who'd smash the Premier League School Sports Day competition if it was ever span up but is about as much of a technical footballer as I am an astronaut."
"It'll be interesting to see whether the club has learned the lessons of the past . Tonali's value is artificially high . As is Livramento's (significant spells out with injury). We should be looking to sell if the prices rumoured are true . Same for Gordon if it's 80 million up."
"His best was very much a purple patch last season.
Most of his time here he's been pretty average"
"I really don't think he's that good on the ball, more legs than anything."
https://newcastle-online.org/topic/37798-sandro-tonali/page/671/
Would be awful if we end up with another Ugarte.