He isn’t good enough for the money being touted.
Sandro Tonali
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Would agree if they are demanding £100m for him
I asked AI which of the midfielders we’ve been linked with would best suit Carrick’s style in a 4-2-3-1, while also complementing Bruno Fernandes in the No.10 role and Kobbie Mainoo in the pivot. The answer was Sandro Tonali.
What it said:
How he complements them:
Bruno → creativity/chaos
Mainoo → progression/carrying
Tonali → structure + stability + control
This is the closest to a “big team midfield spine” solution.
What it said:
How he complements them:
Bruno → creativity/chaos
Mainoo → progression/carrying
Tonali → structure + stability + control
This is the closest to a “big team midfield spine” solution.
I was bored.
The problem with an AI response like that is its trained on fan opinions online. Not on scouting reports from professional clubs. Its not trained using data from Opta, or Statsbomb etc. It'll look for news stories and we've been linked with him recently. It will take things said in those news stories as fact, rather than coming to that conclusion from being trained on actual data. But those things are just a writer's opinion. So its the response I'd expect to get
It is when you put all the stats in from whoscored.com
I just put your text into ChatGPT and it came up with Wharton, Tchaumeni and Ederson as best options but all slightly different profiles.
Best fit: Adam Wharton (controller profile)
Best balance option: Aurélien Tchouaméni (elite 6)
System-fit sleeper: Éderson (Carrick-style hybrid)
I literally spoke about Carricks style and put stats in from whoscored.com and it said Tonali would give the best balance.
Scouts can rest easy knowing that AI isn’t coming for their jobs. Mainoo and progression don’t belong in the same sentence.
Rank
Player
What they bring
Tonali
Balance + control + defensive stability
Ederson
Power + transitions + all-round impact
Wharton
Elite control + passing
4
Stiller
Pure tempo control
5
Tchouaméni
Defensive anchor
6
Anderson
All-round energy
7
Baleba
Raw athletic ball-winner
8
Alex Scott
Attacking 8
Which AI did you ask out of curiosity?
Same as you.
Looked a bit brainless today, didn't sell me the idea of him.
Fair enough. I've not really watched him closely, but kept a good eye on him today and put me right off.
He has a lot of energy and looks busy, but his actual game is average. If you want to see what he looks like in an elite midfield battle, take a gander at the schooling he got vs Barcelona.
that's so interesting that the results are so different with the same query.I know he’s younger but that game again showed Guimaraes is just a better player in every department. As soon as he went off Newcastle lost their way and didn’t have the force they previously had in MF. Tonali just can’t carry their mf the way Guimareas can.
Seems the club has considered him to be too expensive, and it's not worth pursuing further. I'm fine with that, but our targets seem to be a bit all over the place. Just seems like there is no clear plan which is a bit worrying.
Definitely covered a lot of ground and loves a long range strike, but very little guile. It does worry me, that seems to impress the recruiting team the most. I'll have a look at that game.
They dont have a lot of the stats that the proper paid for scouting packages have such as statsbomb. Thats what fbref used to use. So its very limiting especially for a midfielder. Something like this https://scoutlab.streamlit.app/ which uses the same stats package as fbref iirc would give a better base for it to use. But still its not learning, it hasnt been trained, its just doing a quick search. Still even a site like that which displays plenty of the stats from one of those paid for professional stats packages doesnt show all the stats... Because then why would anyone buy it? So they cant. And so its still missing stuff like running stats. Which is going to be incredibly useful here dont you think?
I dont pay for statsbomb or opta so I dont know what it would tell us
I do find it funny that the suggestion is a player that whoscored rates a 6.56 in the premier league this season though. Lower than 3 of Newcastle's other midfielders and lower than Casemiro, and just above Mainoo with a 6.51
We will not pay 110-120m for Anderson or 90-100m for Tonali. If the asking prices will not come down we will look elsewhere.
Pre
Pretty sure we are already doing that.
I als don’t know that “Stability and control” is how I’d define Tonali’s game. If anything, I think he’d be a significantly better player if he slowed things down a touch.
Tonali isn't even worth 70mil, and it seems the club could well be aware of that.
He just doesn't seem like a priority for United, and if they've done their data analysis, scouting and background checks, he shouldn't be either.
He's moved onto the anti-transfer list for me, based on how much he's going to cost.
City, Utd and Arsenal interested. Newcastle will want around £75-£85 mil (€90 - €100mil).
If we can't get Anderson or tchaumeni. Certainly wouldn't say not to Tonali
If we can't get Anderson or tchaumeni. Certainly wouldn't say not to Tonali
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Scholes seems to be a big fan but I just dont see it.
Meh. Don’t think he’d be worth it in the end if we go ahead and spend so much on him.
I think we may end up with him. Anderson too expense. Tchaumeni unavailable. Baleba too risky.
I'm not buying it.
Hopefully agent talk, given Tonali wants out, as opposed to him being anywhere close to a priority for Ineos.
Stats, eye test, everything, shows he's just not all that. I'd even rather Bruno G or Lewis Miley if you're raiding Newcastle for a midfielder, and Newcastle fans would loathe selling those two more than Tonali as well, who they understandably don't care that much about.
Hopefully agent talk, given Tonali wants out, as opposed to him being anywhere close to a priority for Ineos.
Stats, eye test, everything, shows he's just not all that. I'd even rather Bruno G or Lewis Miley if you're raiding Newcastle for a midfielder, and Newcastle fans would loathe selling those two more than Tonali as well, who they understandably don't care that much about.
If it was 50m I’d be interested, but that’s at a max sort of price.
If anyone pays over £60 million it'll be a robbery
I'm sure its true that Newcastle want a big fee because of the sell on clause and to fund other transfers. But his level of performance is going to ho a long way to determine how much clubs are willing to spend on him and hes been okay. Someone might gamble that he'll go from okay to good. But not for the price of a player who is already good... When they can sign someone who is already good.
Who's said Baleba is too risky?
He will cost lot of money in both wages and agent, and transfer fees and if we want to sign Tonali then we need to move quick before Newcastle selling their other players like Gordon for example.
Tonali is big engine midfielder with very good passing ability. He would be a great signing if we end up with him. He played as no 8 last season but played as no 6 this season. His engine and his passing range skills will compliment Mainoo. If we sign Baleba as the second midfielder, that would make great additions to our midfield because Baleba is no 6 and Tonali is more hybrid plays as no 6 and no 8 means we get ourselves two midfielders that we can rotate alongside Mainoo. And then for the 4th midfielder, we sign someone cheaper, versatile, and can do the job when needed.
Tonali is big engine midfielder with very good passing ability. He would be a great signing if we end up with him. He played as no 8 last season but played as no 6 this season. His engine and his passing range skills will compliment Mainoo. If we sign Baleba as the second midfielder, that would make great additions to our midfield because Baleba is no 6 and Tonali is more hybrid plays as no 6 and no 8 means we get ourselves two midfielders that we can rotate alongside Mainoo. And then for the 4th midfielder, we sign someone cheaper, versatile, and can do the job when needed.
I like him a lot, but there are a lot of very good midfield options this year, and you can get better value elsewhere.
However, if he forces a move then for 60 million I wouldn’t say no.
However, if he forces a move then for 60 million I wouldn’t say no.
Sums up my opinion - think he's good, but overpriced so would rather we went with other options. Anderson is the same - great player, not worth the prices being quoted.