This reeks of a signing that Liverpool will do.
Plus I don't think he's what we need. No thanks.
Plus I don't think he's what we need. No thanks.
Sandro Tonali
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
I would be very disappointed in our recruitment team if we spend massive money on Tonali.
Casemiro is a 6 and we literally can't handle most games without him. So we defintely either "need a 6". Or an all rounder who is also an excellent ball winner like an Anderson
I have been following the Serie A since the 80s though I admit I haven't followed it as much as I used to be. The Serie A of the 80s-early 90s was the best league the world had ever seen. It wasn't uncommon for top players to play with smaller clubs including Hagi who left Real Madrid to play for Brescia. Imagine Bellingham leaving Real to play for Wolves but I digress.
The Serie A was by default very technical and tactical. That meant low tempo. It's by nature less physical as well. Some of the finest defenders in Italy weren't even 6ft tall (Cannavaro, Baresi, Scirea etc). Thus players with physicality had always had an advantage in the Serie A. Many mention John Charles who was way past my time but I do remember Ince at Inter as an example and the Serie A players really struggled to have him around. Andrea Silenzi whom, with his 6ft3 frame, used to do quite some damage with Torino once lamented how he struggled in the EPL because, in England he was just a normal joe. His height and strength was the norm there. Another bad boy of the Serie A Marco Materazzi didn't spent too much time in the EPL either preferring to play his dark arts in a league that was ill suited to it rather then risk going toe to toe with a Roy Keane season in season out. As the Serie A quality declined more and more players are doing well there simply through physicality. Hojlund was a mess with us but is doing fairly well with Napoli, Vardy is doing well as well despite being around 90 at this point while the last time I went to Naples they were McT shirts being sold side by side to Maradona's. Which kind of describes the decline of the Serie A in a nut shell.
Back to Locatelli. Yes he's got the frame and the attitude. However we need to acknowledge that Italian players are wired differently then the EPL ones and they do not like living in a constant scuffle which, most of the EPL games, are. There are exceptions of course like Tonali. But one needs to take everything in consideration.
In short don’t nobody want Locatelli but @goldenboy.
Not because we all think he’s crap.. but because he isn’t Verrati level and why would we take the risk when we have so many Prem Proven midfielders to pick from.
He's hardly played for sides flourishing at that level though.
Juventus haven't finished higher than 3rd in Serie A since he joined them.
They've finished 3rd in a CL group where they lost five matches and only finished ahead of Maccabi Haifa on goal difference, got knocked out of the play-off round by PSV after finishing 20th in the league phase, and the only wins they've managed this time were at home to Cypriot side Pafos (who didn't qualify), at home to Benfica (who took the last qualification spot) and courtesy of a stoppage time winner at Bodo/Glimt (who took the penultimate qualification spot).
The Italy side he plays for need to win a play-off to get to the World Cup, were knocked out by Switzerland in the Euros, and were beaten by North Macedonia in the play-offs for the last World Cup.
He's 28, he never played outside the Serie A and he'll cost a fortune. Juventus are very difficult negotiators. We know that very well.
Who are these "many Prem Proven" midfielders who United could sign that wouldn't clearly be a downgrade on Casemiro?
Cunha and Mbeumo were Prem Proven when United signed them. The only CM in the PL who it might not be impossible for United to sign and is operating at that level is Bruno G, but he's even a bit older than Locatelli and not that defensively strong.
He's in poor form but he's very good in my opinion.
He's class but we shouldn't be spending the kind of money Newcastle will want. I doubt ineos go for this. We could have gotten him for relative peanuts when he was in the EL with Milan playing against us. His ball playing abilities have always stood out since he was young. Obviously there was always going to be a question around his physicality and lack of pace but he settled very well in the PL. Himself and Bruno G were the profile of midfield players we should have been going for over the last few years before they joined Newcastle and flourished
But Locatelli is the upgrade? Juventus have been on the ropes for a few years now. Why hasn’t any other big club tried to take him?
There doesn't exist an upgrade on Casemiro in the market. But Locatelli appears the closest thing to being at least not too far off (Bruno G is the only other potential signing at a similar level, but is a different type of midfielder to Casemiro and doesn't seem an obvious Mainoo partner).
He only joined Juve 2.5 seasons ago ffs... and he has been their captain with plenty of time still on his contract so they likely would have asked for too much. But with him in the summer having 2 years left on his deal they could be more open to it.
You also completely avoided the question I asked, which was:
"Who are these "many Prem Proven" midfielders who United could sign that wouldn't clearly be a downgrade on Casemiro?"
Both deep centre midfielders, Casemiro despite being a DM is very involved in our attacking play and passing game. I don’t see Baleba playing like that.
To be fair, I’ve heard a lot worse said about Bruno on here. One the best players in the league and a player who has carried us for years. Same with Casemiro, who has been very good for a while now but was no. 1 on everyone’s list to sell not long ago.
Newcastle fans are no doubt calling him now that he wants to leave. They were worshipping the ground he walked on not long ago.
Would still like to sign him when Anderson inevitably chooses City in the summer, yes I am aware they are different profiles of players. Would need to find a DM that doesn't cost the earth too.
Apparently Arsenal did and he turned them down
Seems to be the case, yes.
If anything, the fact that off the pitch Locatelli seemed so keen to stay in Italy would be more of a concern than his adaptability on the pitch. Italians don't always travel well, with Tonali the latest apparently not having settled in the North-East. Albeit, the likes of Donnarumma, Calafiori and Vicario show it isn't impossible.
Maybe after having had his time at Juve without them having done anything, and the potential for his wage to go up significantly, he may now be ready for a different challenge and to cross to the PL?
https://www.hitc.com/director-claim...lciomercato, Arsenal were,a switch to Arsenal.
https://www.hitc.com/manuel-locatellis-brother-explains-why-40m-ace-rejected-arsenal-move/
Would make the squad better looking.
Locatelli doesn't stand out in Serie A so why would he in Premier League? He is a slow player in all aspects of the play, there is no reason we should be in for him.
He has been at Juve for 4.5 seasons, the fact that the first two were on loan as part of one of those bizarre deals Juventus seem to always be involved in where they get the best of Serie A talent on a buy now pay later scheme doesn't alter that fact. I don't think he has any appetite whatsoever to play anywhere else, he had better options than Juve when he first joined them and his stock was so high after winning the Euros and whilst he has never expressly stated he won't leave Italy I would be amazed if he ever did unless it is to Saudi or MLS for a retirement payday in a few years time.
His dream was to play for Juve, so that's why he turned down Arsenal.
But he's done that now and they as a club are going nowhere, so perhaps he's now ready to try the PL. United would also increase his wage from what he's on at Juve.
That signing would be a bit of a gamble, amirit?
I don’t think there’s any chance we’re spending big money on a 28 year old for our CM rebuild.
Tonali, Anderson, Wharton, Bruno.G. That’s 4.. you don’t need more than that. I would put Baleba on the list but his stock isn’t as bright as it was this time last year.
Re: Locatelli.. I seen it was mentioned Arsenal wanted him. That was in 2021 when they were struggling to be a top 5 side. I clearly meant most recently. I know his stocks where high.. I remember him at Sassuolo he got the big move right after Tonali - they literally rose at similar times. The point is he’s been at Juventus and he’s not progressed to the trajectory that would make him being concerned a top target. He’s too risky.
Wharton would be a very noticeable downgrade on Casemiro. He is simply too poor without the ball right now. He's still years off.
Tonali's stats this season have been bang average for PL midfielders. Plus have you not read Newcastle fans thoughts about him which I posted? They're completely fine with selling him. Again, one would reasonably expect him to clearly be a downgrade on Casemiro.
Anderson I've posted about on here a few times. He is not too far off, but it would still probably take him a couple of seasons to reach something comparable to Casemiro's current contribution level, if he ever does make it. Again, right now with him instead of Casemiro in the team the midfield would look particularly more exposed in defence.
Bruno Guimaraes is indeed the only PL midfielder operating at a similar overall level to Casemiro who United could feasibly sign. However, even then he's a bit more attacking and less defensively disciplined than Casemiro, and as such might not partner as well with Mainoo. Plus he's even a couple of months older than Locatelli, and some on here claim Ineos won't sign a 28 year-old for the re-build.
So your "many Prem Proven" midfielders who United could sign that wouldn't clearly be a downgrade on Casemiro is one 28 year-old who isn't an ideal partner for Mainoo, plus a 23 year-old who would initially be a bit of a downgrade on Casemiro and will also probably sign for City anyway...
Great.
Yeah I don’t know what we are doing here. Maybe Elon Musk can clone Casemiro. Job done.
The aim isn’t to replace him like for like. Just to build a new midfield capable of challenging. It’s not a hard ask. Casemiro is leaving and all of a sudden he’s the perfect player with no flaws. Last year many on here said he was finished
.I’ve named enough players there that can offer something different and to a level we need. Maybe we’ll finally get some athleticism too. Considering Mainoo and Casemiro can’t defend space. But let’s not mention negatives.
It is a hard ask when the only top midfielder on the market from the PL is 28. And the only other one who might get there could be City bound.
He's finished in the sense of not being able to play multiple 90 minutes per week.
United have to an extent only started looking like a team which could challenge due to the fact that they don't have to exhaust Casemiro as much. There are simply not many midfielders out there who can bring as much as Casemiro does for the minutes he is fit and available.
You need players of his ability in order to challenge the top clubs - you've seen that in recent weeks. Arsenal are still the team to catch and they have Rice+Zubimendi. You're not going to narrow the gap by losing your only midfielder close in impact to Rice and replacing them with someone of a lesser ability (say a more "good but not sensational" Zubimendi level). Rice+Zubimendi will beat a Zubimendi+Zubimendi.
Wharton and tonali have had poor seasons also, not many proven options available.
Very true, however wouldn't hold that against either as believe they could find their best form again
And baleba can't?
Yeah, I agree. It might be a bit harsh on Baleba, but I’m leaning towards experience, which is why Tonali doesn’t get as much uncertainty from me, he’s performed for longer. You could probably bracket Wharton and Baleba as similar due to age, but I’d argue Wharton has shown higher levels of performance. I can’t remember many games where Baleba has dominated the way Wharton did against City in the final. He just doesn’t seem to have that kind of performance in his locker yet — similar to what Caicedo did to us a few years back in the semi-final for Brighton.
Respectfully you’re waffling. What are you saying any different to what I’m saying except for the fact you just want Locatelli?
I’ve mentioned just build a great partnership and I’m not fussed who it eventually ends up being. But I’d be very confident with either.
Tonali - Anderson
Tonali - Wharton
Mainoo - Anderson
Mainoo - Bruno.G
Bruno.G - Wharton
Against Rice - Zubimendi. I don’t know why your making a big deal out of it.
Because the 3 Prem Proven midfielders people are talking about have never played for a team with pressure and we know it's easy to shine at smaller clubs.
Can't see us being able to afford top or bottom option
Why not? We should have £100 million ish coming in from departures. If we qualify for CL that’s going to help a lot too.
None of them are DM s
Yeah we would still need a pure DM to partner them
I did ask this at some point on this thread. I got told Zubimendi and there is noway Zubimendi does a better defensive job than Adam Wharton who partners Will Hughes from time to time.
There isn’t a clear DM who is available who will have the key attributes to improve our midfield. By that I mean they are the level of Ugarte with regards to ability. Neither of the options above are and all work within a system with no DM. So I don’t understand why it keeps being mentioned as a priority and why people believe neither of these options cannot defend together as a collective or with Kobbie Mainoo.