The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order

Jippy

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The antilockdown ones resulted in shitloads of arrests, as documented on the last page.
I guess they lived with the BLM one cos they were scared it would kick off, but by doing that they set a precedent of sorts. They should really have adopted the same stance yesterday.
Saying that, my sympathy is low. People are effectively saying their right to be at a vigil for a stranger is more important than my uncle being able to be at his wife of over 50 years' bedside when she died last year.
 

Ludens the Red

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There’s been plenty of protests and group gatherings allowed and gone ahead without the scenes we saw last night. The BLM protests, anti lockdown protests, hell even Rangers fans celebrating only a week or so ago in huge numbers with police just looking on. This heavy handed policing was just an incredibly bad decision. I don’t even blame the cops on the ground really, it’s those with decision making powers who should be sacked. Insanely dense decision making which really has failed to get a sense of what has been happening among the people of London in the last week.

Engage with the organisers, enforce social distancing. The met had opportunities to handle this far better.
With all due respect, what the heck are you going on about? Surely you cannot be this unaware and out of the loop.
There were literally hundreds of arrests and police/protestor clashes at the anti lockdown protests.
There were arrests and clashes at the BLM protests. If there were more than six people booked into custody last night I’d be amazed. And I’m not sure what on earth Rangers celebrations in Scotland have do to with policing in London but there were plenty of arrests there too.
I saw @Olly Gunnar Solskjær post two pictures that seemed to imply the same thing.

Honestly lads, either you have a serious lack of awareness on these events (in which case it’s probably better to check your facts first) or it’s a deliberate action to push a narrative.
Christ, You’d think it was a war zone last night the way people are carrying on.
Who is this helping? Honestly who? Who benefits from this?
You literally have a woman on a video telling you she was arrested and de arrested immediately in order for her to leave the area.
This same woman is perfectly fine and healthy in this video and this is the person who’s been chosen as the poster child for a “brutal arrest” where “several officers jumped on top of her”. Gimme a fecking break.
 

JMack1234

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The antilockdown ones resulted in shitloads of arrests, as documented on the last page.
I guess they lived with the BLM one cos they were scared it would kick off, but by doing that they set a precedent of sorts. They should really have adopted the same stance yesterday.
Saying that, my sympathy is low. People are effectively saying their right to be at a vigil for a stranger is more important than my uncle being able to be at his wife of over 50 years' bedside when she died last year.
That's so sad. Hope he's doing okay.
 

oates

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We have a Constitution, it just isn't codified in a single document.
Yes, it's unwritten and that's why we don't have one. What we do have is set around the Act of Settlement of 1701 which sets out the supreme rights and principles of those who are born to rule and those who are born to be ruled. Meanwhile as it is unwritten, British Rights as with the Right to Protest are free to be curtailed. Interesting that you didn't address the rest of the post. Dancing around the issue much? Yes, we'll expect more of the same from an hypocrite.
 

rcoobc

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There’s been plenty of protests and group gatherings allowed and gone ahead without the scenes we saw last night. The BLM protests, anti lockdown protests, hell even Rangers fans celebrating only a week or so ago in huge numbers with police just looking on. This heavy handed policing was just an incredibly bad decision. I don’t even blame the cops on the ground really, it’s those with decision making powers who should be sacked. Insanely dense decision making which really has failed to get a sense of what has been happening among the people of London in the last week.

Engage with the organisers, enforce social distancing. The met had opportunities to handle this far better.
Misogyny of the highest order.
 

rcoobc

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With all due respect, what the heck are you going on about? Surely you cannot be this unaware and out of the loop.
There were literally hundreds of arrests and police/protestor clashes at the anti lockdown protests.
There were arrests and clashes at the BLM protests. If there were more than six people booked into custody last night I’d be amazed. And I’m not sure what on earth Rangers celebrations in Scotland have do to with policing in London but there were plenty of arrests there too.
I saw @Olly Gunnar Solskjær post two pictures that seemed to imply the same thing.

Honestly lads, either you have a serious lack of awareness on these events (in which case it’s probably better to check your facts first) or it’s a deliberate action to push a narrative.
Christ, You’d think it was a war zone last night the way people are carrying on.
Who is this helping? Honestly who? Who benefits from this?
You literally have a woman on a video telling you she was arrested and de arrested immediately in order for her to leave the area.
This same woman is perfectly fine and healthy in this video and this is the person who’s been chosen as the poster child for a “brutal arrest” where “several officers jumped on top of her”. Gimme a fecking break.
Sorry Leroy, but I think you are in the wrong here.

Not saying there weren't arrests or clashes at BLM protests but BLM protests *were* allowed to go ahead. Protests in general were.

This all changed 4 months ago

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...set-to-be-removed-from-england-lockdown-rules
 

JMack1234

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Yes, it's unwritten and that's why we don't have one. What we do have is set around the Act of Settlement of 1701 which sets out the supreme rights and principles of those who are born to rule and those who are born to be ruled. Meanwhile as it is unwritten, British Rights as with the Right to Protest are free to be curtailed. Interesting that you didn't address the rest of the post. Dancing around the issue much? Yes, we'll expect more of the same from an hypocrite.
Crickey. Hope you're having a lovely day.
 

Kag

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The antilockdown ones resulted in shitloads of arrests, as documented on the last page.
I guess they lived with the BLM one cos they were scared it would kick off, but by doing that they set a precedent of sorts. They should really have adopted the same stance yesterday.
Saying that, my sympathy is low. People are effectively saying their right to be at a vigil for a stranger is more important than my uncle being able to be at his wife of over 50 years' bedside when she died last year.
Are they?

As far as I am concerned people should both be able to a) attend a vigil in an outdoor space and b) sit at the bedside of their partner as they pass away. I’m sure many will agree.
 

Pogue Mahone

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The antilockdown ones resulted in shitloads of arrests, as documented on the last page.
I guess they lived with the BLM one cos they were scared it would kick off, but by doing that they set a precedent of sorts. They should really have adopted the same stance yesterday.
Saying that, my sympathy is low. People are effectively saying their right to be at a vigil for a stranger is more important than my uncle being able to be at his wife of over 50 years' bedside when she died last year.
Their right to be at a vigil for a complete stranger.

I can’t be the only one wondering if we’d have seen the same turn-out if he’d targeted someone less photogenic and middle class?
 

Kag

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Their right to be at a vigil for a complete stranger.

I can’t be the only one wondering if we’d have seen the same turn-out if he’d targeted someone less photogenic and middle class?
Probably not. Way of the world, sadly. The continued obsession with Madeline McCan is your best evidence to support such a view.

It’s no less important, however.
 

Ludens the Red

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Sorry Leroy, but I think you are in the wrong here.

Not saying there weren't arrests or clashes at BLM protests but BLM protests *were* allowed to go ahead. Protests in general were.

This all changed 4 months ago

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...set-to-be-removed-from-england-lockdown-rules
I don’t think the narrative from what the two posters I referenced was the ‘technical legalities’ of whether these gatherings/protests were or weren’t allowed. The only way that can be the take from that is if you completely ignore the rest of the post and it’s content.
 

RonaldoVII

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Their right to be at a vigil for a complete stranger.

I can’t be the only one wondering if we’d have seen the same turn-out if he’d targeted someone less photogenic and middle class?
I agree.

Fair enough going to pay respects but I think a lot were using it as an excuse to get out of the house. They were told not to go and the woman's family said not to go but they still did.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Probably not. Way of the world, sadly. The continued obsession with Madeline McCan is your best evidence to support such a view.

It’s no less important, however.
I honestly struggle to see what was important about that mass gathering? It was important to grieve in public over the death of someone that none of them knew?
 

rcoobc

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I don’t think the narrative from what the two posters I referenced was the ‘technical legalities’ of whether these gatherings/protests were or weren’t allowed. The only way that can be the take from that is if you completely ignore the rest of the post and it’s content.
But he's right. There were many BLM protests and many anti-lockdown protests where the police... Policed it. Made sure everyone was as safe as possible without interfering (either because doing so would make everyone less safe, or because they respect the right to protest).

The fact this didn't happen here is shocking. Misogyny of the highest order.

Anti-lockdown protests are unimpeded.

A vigil for a young girl killed by a predatory policeman (what type of policeman was he, possibly policeman is not a correct term) is broken up.
 

bsCallout

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It’s not besides the point. It’s just the classic ‘but what about men’? It’s the same as saying ‘all lives matter’.
It's not even close. Its simply pointing out that men also feel vulnerable after dark, for example, it's not reserved solely for women. That doesn't diminish their feelings or concerns, it's showing that we too feel like that. It's saying 'Gee I can imagine how you feel, I'm a strong bloke and still worry, I can imagine it's frightening.'

It's understanding.
 

Eyepopper

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One of the organisers on Sky describing how the people wanted to exercise their human right to stand together to cry a bit and mourn together.
 

Eyepopper

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Their right to be at a vigil for a complete stranger.

I can’t be the only one wondering if we’d have seen the same turn-out if he’d targeted someone less photogenic and middle class?
Were there any public vigils for the sisters stabbed to death in a London park last year, cant remember any myself.
 

Pogue Mahone

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One of the organisers on Sky describing how the people wanted to exercise their human right to stand together to cry a bit and mourn together.
During a pandemic.

Bit of a bang of the Princess Diana funeral off all of this.

You’re in absolute bits about a complete stranger. Wise up! Save it for the death of someone you’ve actually met.
 

Eyepopper

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During a pandemic.

Bit of a bang of the Princess Diana funeral off all of this.

You’re in absolute bits about a complete stranger. Wise up! Save it for the death of someone you’ve actually met.
The bang of white, middle class entitlement was pretty overwhelming.
 

PoTMS

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During a pandemic.

Bit of a bang of the Princess Diana funeral off all of this.

You’re in absolute bits about a complete stranger. Wise up! Save it for the death of someone you’ve actually met.
But... Symbolism.

What's the point of a vigil by the way? I mean I can understand it if you knew the person but why were there so many planned throughout the country, whilst we're meant to be in a countrywide lockdown?
 

Jippy

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Their right to be at a vigil for a complete stranger.

I can’t be the only one wondering if we’d have seen the same turn-out if he’d targeted someone less photogenic and middle class?
I don't want to sound callous, as I know it did affect some women. A friend's wife was attacked and had to testify against him in court. She did her own personal paying of respects cos we're in a pandemic and her husband is shielding.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Were there any public vigils for the sisters stabbed to death in a London park last year, cant remember any myself.
Pfft... Of course not. They were mixed raced and didn’t live in Clapham.

Also, crucially, the whole of London wasn’t bored off its tits during lockdown at the time. More than enough Instagram content available from getting of their face in pubs and clubs. No need to stand in the cold outdoors to capture that all important footage.
 

Jippy

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Are they?

As far as I am concerned people should both be able to a) attend a vigil in an outdoor space and b) sit at the bedside of their partner as they pass away. I’m sure many will agree.
B wasn't allowed to happen for my uncle because of the pandemic restrictions.
I just struggle to put the two in the same category of outrage.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I don't want to sound callous, as I know it did affect some women. A friend's wife was attacked and had to testify against him in court. She did her own personal paying of respects cos we're in a pandemic and her husband is shielding.
I’m definitely sounding callous. Which is probably a bit unfair. I’m sure that what happened was triggering for lots of women. And raises some important issues.

But the public outpouring of grief is/was completely over the top IMO. It’s one of these things that gained so much traction on social media everyone felt it belonged to them. They had to have a STRONGLY. HELD. OPINION. And if that means packing into crowds on Clapham Common, during a pandemic, to express that opinion, then so be it.
 

Eyepopper

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Pfft... Of course not. They were mixed raced and didn’t live in Clapham.

Also, crucially, the whole of London wasn’t bored off its tits during lockdown at the time. More than enough Instagram content available from getting of their face in pubs and clubs. No need to stand in the cold outdoors to capture that all important footage.
When asked to explain the lack of need for a vigil for other murders, yer one on Sky literally said that Sarah Everard being middle class made her feel like this could've happened to her!
 

SalfordRed18

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When asked to explain the lack of need for a vigil for other murders, yer one on Sky literally said that Sarah Everard being middle class made her feel like this could've happened to her!
Missing white woman syndrome in action.
 

Ludens the Red

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But he's right. There were many BLM protests and many anti-lockdown protests where the police... Policed it. Made sure everyone was as safe as possible without interfering (either because doing so would make everyone less safe, or because they respect the right to protest).

The fact this didn't happen here is shocking. Misogyny of the highest order.

Anti-lockdown protests are unimpeded.

A vigil for a young girl killed by a predatory policeman (what type of policeman was he, possibly policeman is not a correct term) is broken up.
Maybe you need to revisit the post...

There’s been plenty of protests and group gatherings allowed and gone ahead without the scenes we saw last night. The BLM protests, anti lockdown protests, hell even Rangers fans celebrating only a week or so ago in huge numbers with police just looking on. This heavy handed policing was just an incredibly bad decision.
- What scenes? On what planet were the scenes last night even at the level of some
of the clashes at the BLM and anti lockdown protests.

Heavy handed policing? At the moment, arrests numbers are said to be between 4 and 6. I’ve not heard of any injuries or seen any imagery of people in distress from last night.
People are creating a narrative and pushing it whilst altering past events.

As for your comments, again, not sure those are a correct telling of events.
The vigil went on for a considerable time with no interference and little to no incidents. This is something many people who attended have said on Twitter.

My guess is police spent most of the day advising and asking people to leave. Then at a point during the evening, more and more people were turning up and the trouble makers were arriving. This always happens.
See below for an example

At this point an order from above would have come to start dispersing of people and use force if they don’t comply.
What then happens during these situations is the normal people who’ve remained are then lumped in with the unruly people. At which point as police have been told to remove anyone, you then get situations like the red haired lady we saw from last night.
It’s obviously not ideal but for someone who was supposedly abject to police brutality she seemed pretty fine in her interview and was even talking about going to more and more protests despite knowing this is not allowed.

None of what happened yesterday has anything to do with misogyny...
As a frontline officer if you’ve been ordered by command to disperse of people you don’t get to pick and choose whether you disperse women or men.
 

stepic

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Some pretty terrible posts here frankly. If a lot of women have been impacted by this, I’d say it’s because they have a very real, lived experience of beings subjected to the threat of sexual abuse, violence and assault. Perhaps they feel affected by this because they do have this exact fear when they walk at night. Sarah could have been any one of them. Frankly a bunch of middle class men telling them they were at Clapham just to get some Insta stories is, well, pretty fecking pathetic.

I get the concerns around the fact we’re still in a pandemic (even if the risks of transmission outdoors has been shown to be low, but that’s besides the point). This is why the police should have worked with the organisers to ensure things were managed appropriately instead of allowing the inevitable to happen.
 

oates

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Maybe you need to revisit the post...


- What scenes? On what planet were the scenes last night even at the level of some
of the clashes at the BLM and anti lockdown protests.

Heavy handed policing? At the moment, arrests numbers are said to be between 4 and 6. I’ve not heard of any injuries or seen any imagery of people in distress from last night.
People are creating a narrative and pushing it whilst altering past events.

As for your comments, again, not sure those are a correct telling of events.
The vigil went on for a considerable time with no interference and little to no incidents. This is something many people who attended have said on Twitter.

My guess is police spent most of the day advising and asking people to leave. Then at a point during the evening, more and more people were turning up and the trouble makers were arriving. This always happens.
See below for an example

At this point an order from above would have come to start dispersing of people and use force if they don’t comply.
What then happens during these situations is the normal people who’ve remained are then lumped in with the unruly people. At which point as police have been told to remove anyone, you then get situations like the red haired lady we saw from last night.
It’s obviously not ideal but for someone who was supposedly abject to police brutality she seemed pretty fine in her interview and was even talking about going to more and more protests despite knowing this is not allowed.

None of what happened yesterday has anything to do with misogyny...
As a frontline officer if you’ve been ordered by command to disperse of people you don’t get to pick and choose whether you disperse women or men.
Yes, good summing up.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Maybe you need to revisit the post...


- What scenes? On what planet were the scenes last night even at the level of some
of the clashes at the BLM and anti lockdown protests.

Heavy handed policing? At the moment, arrests numbers are said to be between 4 and 6. I’ve not heard of any injuries or seen any imagery of people in distress from last night.
People are creating a narrative and pushing it whilst altering past events.

As for your comments, again, not sure those are a correct telling of events.
The vigil went on for a considerable time with no interference and little to no incidents. This is something many people who attended have said on Twitter.

My guess is police spent most of the day advising and asking people to leave. Then at a point during the evening, more and more people were turning up and the trouble makers were arriving. This always happens.
See below for an example

At this point an order from above would have come to start dispersing of people and use force if they don’t comply.
What then happens during these situations is the normal people who’ve remained are then lumped in with the unruly people. At which point as police have been told to remove anyone, you then get situations like the red haired lady we saw from last night.
It’s obviously not ideal but for someone who was supposedly abject to police brutality she seemed pretty fine in her interview and was even talking about going to more and more protests despite knowing this is not allowed.

None of what happened yesterday has anything to do with misogyny...
As a frontline officer if you’ve been ordered by command to disperse of people you don’t get to pick and choose whether you disperse women or men.
The audio of that video speaks volumes. Bored kids having a laugh on a rare evening out.
 

hobbers

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Frankly a bunch of middle class men telling them they were at Clapham just to get some Insta stories is, well, pretty fecking pathetic.
Nah, the only pathetic thing is that they're right.
 

Eyepopper

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Frankly a bunch of middle class men telling them they were at Clapham just to get some Insta stories is, well, pretty fecking pathetic.
The redhead from the vigil photos...
 

Kag

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I honestly struggle to see what was important about that mass gathering? It was important to grieve in public over the death of someone that none of them knew?
It doesn’t feel particularly important to me on an individual level either but I can see why it is important to the women involved. I know first hand that this story has affected women and generated discussion in a way it usually doesn’t.

Likewise, I don’t give much of a shit about people congregating outdoors and breaking Covid rules but I can understand why people feel it is important enough to complain about, too.

We feel passionate or non passionate about all sorts, I guess.
 

Kag

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B wasn't allowed to happen for my uncle because of the pandemic restrictions.
I just struggle to put the two in the same category of outrage.
That’s sad. That should never have happened, albeit this is a separate debate altogether.
 

Kag

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I do think it’s reasonable to hold the view that this lady has been somewhat forgotten about a little bit in all of this, sadly. As with all well-intended ideas (laying some flowers and paying respects in this case), they’re usually bastardised by folk who have other ideas.