The murder of Sarah Everard | Couzens sentenced to a whole-life order

jungledrums

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Whatever about the necessity of it, it definitely isn't good optics as it immediately prompts the above sort of response.
The irony is that Holden Caulfield would hate that attention-seeking, self-important misapprehension of the truth. As ‘phony’ as one could possibly be.
 

altodevil

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You'd be hard-pressed to find one woman who feels completely safe walking alone late at night, ever, wherever she lives. Even if it's only a fleeting thought, it's always there. Many women (including me) keep our keys in our hand, both to make sure we can get in quickly and as a potential defence.
Totally agree, that's not what I disagreed with. That's obviously true, and a big problem.
 

Superunknown

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Don’t know of this has been posted yet but I think this guy hits the nail on the head.

No, it’s not all men, but all men need to take responsibility. As with other subjects if we don’t stamp out people spouting homophobic, xenophobic, racist behaviour then we are essentially condoning it.

Completely agree with every word of this.

One of my best friends is a girl that I met on my very first day of university. We have a mutual friend that we met on our course. They were quite good friends in the second and third year, but then suddenly drifted apart in the fourth year. I lived with my best friend and a few other people and on one of my last nights there in our fourth year (our last year), she confided to me and two other friends that (after a night out with a big group of friends in the third year of uni, so the year previously), she woke up in the middle of the night to find our mutual friend on top of her. If you had ever had the chance to meet my friend, you'd know that she's the type to completely speak her mind and will never back down in an argument, but in this instance she completely and utterly froze out of fear. She was 100% clear that she didn't initiate anything and has no recollection at all of how it ended up like this and that she didn't want this. Her last memory is going to sleep at a different friend's house after a party, but she woke up to find him assaulting her. She never spoke to him again after that night. She never went to the police either, despite those of us in the know giving her support. She never even used the term "rape", possibly because she didn't want to be seen as "weak", as she was in a way a leader-type of character in the group.

He was a "clean cut" sort of character that could charm any room he walked into. Handsome, meek-looking, innocent in appearance. You'd never suspect it. I would never suspect it and I felt like I had completely let her down.

For reasons unknown to me and my circle of friends, the mutual "friend" committed suicide last May.

The stats are there, but they do not take into account unreported assaults, which happen far, far more than any of us think. You may "think" you know what your male friends are like, even the not-so-close ones, but nobody ever really knows the full extent of things. You just don't know. It's not the same four or five people committing all of these assaults...
 

Ludens the Red

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Completely agree with every word of this.

One of my best friends is a girl that I met on my very first day of university. We have a mutual friend that we met on our course. They were quite good friends in the second and third year, but then suddenly drifted apart in the fourth year. I lived with my best friend and a few other people and on one of my last nights there in our fourth year (our last year), she confided to me and two other friends that (after a night out with a big group of friends in the third year of uni, so the year previously), she woke up in the middle of the night to find our mutual friend on top of her. If you had ever had the chance to meet my friend, you'd know that she's the type to completely speak her mind and will never back down in an argument, but in this instance she completely and utterly froze out of fear. She was 100% clear that she didn't initiate anything and has no recollection at all of how it ended up like this and that she didn't want this. Her last memory is going to sleep at a different friend's house after a party, but she woke up to find him assaulting her. She never spoke to him again after that night. She never went to the police either, despite those of us in the know giving her support. She never even used the term "rape", possibly because she didn't want to be seen as "weak", as she was in a way a leader-type of character in the group.

He was a "clean cut" sort of character that could charm any room he walked into. Handsome, meek-looking, innocent in appearance. You'd never suspect it. I would never suspect it and I felt like I had completely let her down.

For reasons unknown to me and my circle of friends, the mutual "friend" committed suicide last May.

The stats are there, but they do not take into account unreported assaults, which happen far, far more than any of us think. You may "think" you know what your male friends are like, even the not-so-close ones, but nobody ever really knows the full extent of things. You just don't know. It's not the same four or five people committing all of these assaults...
Quite an informative post, touches on all the facets when dealing with these cases.
Echoes what I was saying about these offenders too in my post on the previous page.
How’s your mate doing in general now?
“You just don’t know” pretty much sums it all up.
 

Hugh Jass

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Completely agree with every word of this.

One of my best friends is a girl that I met on my very first day of university. We have a mutual friend that we met on our course. They were quite good friends in the second and third year, but then suddenly drifted apart in the fourth year. I lived with my best friend and a few other people and on one of my last nights there in our fourth year (our last year), she confided to me and two other friends that (after a night out with a big group of friends in the third year of uni, so the year previously), she woke up in the middle of the night to find our mutual friend on top of her. If you had ever had the chance to meet my friend, you'd know that she's the type to completely speak her mind and will never back down in an argument, but in this instance she completely and utterly froze out of fear. She was 100% clear that she didn't initiate anything and has no recollection at all of how it ended up like this and that she didn't want this. Her last memory is going to sleep at a different friend's house after a party, but she woke up to find him assaulting her. She never spoke to him again after that night. She never went to the police either, despite those of us in the know giving her support. She never even used the term "rape", possibly because she didn't want to be seen as "weak", as she was in a way a leader-type of character in the group.

He was a "clean cut" sort of character that could charm any room he walked into. Handsome, meek-looking, innocent in appearance. You'd never suspect it. I would never suspect it and I felt like I had completely let her down.

For reasons unknown to me and my circle of friends, the mutual "friend" committed suicide last May.

The stats are there, but they do not take into account unreported assaults, which happen far, far more than any of us think. You may "think" you know what your male friends are like, even the not-so-close ones, but nobody ever really knows the full extent of things. You just don't know. It's not the same four or five people committing all of these assaults...
I knew a guy like this in school. Could walk into a night club and charm the women. The amount of women that dont like him though. He just bunny hops from woman to woman. If he were famous he would get in trouble.
 

2mufc0

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Yes. As I've mentioned, I have sister's, one younger and my first real punch after it happened to her.

It's more "ooh, easy target" than anything sexual, but, it does set a path because of the "boys will be boys" attitude that's still around
Fair enough.

It's the first I'm hearing of it, I have 4 sisters and also a 7 year old son and I can't imagine him have any interest whatsoever in doing something like that.
 

Superunknown

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Quite an informative post, touches on all the facets when dealing with these cases.
Echoes what I was saying about these offenders too in my post on the previous page.
How’s your mate doing in general now?
“You just don’t know” pretty much sums it all up.
She's my "best woman" at my wedding later this year, along with one of my old male school friends. If she had never told me, I would never have guessed she had been assaulted. Nobody ever would. You would just look at her and think she's a typically confident, loud, but lovely person. She's upper management at an state school, so quite an authoritative person, but with a human touch. A good person.

It's alarming. We all have mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, co-workers, neighbours. It does make me think just how many of them have had those varying degrees of unwanted contact. Unfortunately, it is a very real problem and pretending that it doesn't involve anybody we know (or either side, either the victim or the attacker) doesn't solve it. The chances are, somebody we know in some sort of capacity will be on either side of that fence. The reported stats support that, let alone the ones that go unreported.
 

Superunknown

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I knew a guy like this in school. Could walk into a night club and charm the women. The amount of women that dont like him though. He just bunny hops from woman to woman. If he were famous he would get in trouble.
We probably all know characters like this. Or the ones who just sort of fade into the background, that you think are completely harmless. I just wonder, after all of this, how many men are going to look at other guys that they know and start observing how they do things a little bit more. Just our general all-round behaviour.
 

Wibble

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That reddit post is overexaggerating a bit
I'm not sure it is. My wife is far from a shrinking violet and in the past I've had to pull her off a mugger for fear his mates had knives who she was in the process of kicking unconscious. Yet her whole life walking or exercising alone at night has to be considered. I have never once had to worry about sexual violence when going anywhere or doing anything. That is a huge difference. And I don't know a single woman who doesn't always consider such things no matter how safe a suburb they live in. Not one.
 

Hugh Jass

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We probably all know characters like this. Or the ones who just sort of fade into the background, that you think are completely harmless. I just wonder, after all of this, how many men are going to look at other guys that they know and start observing how they do things a little bit more. Just our general all-round behaviour.
Personally i dont really go out anymore. Getting old. Same with a friend. I think it is very dangerous getting drunk now. Danger to others but also to yourself.
 

Eire Red United

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The definition of white privilege is getting bored of people raising questions around race and injustice.

Would you rather it went back to normal and these questions weren’t raised and you never had to think about it or discuss it?
The Police are enforcing the law and the current regulations make it illegal for humans to gather in the UK.

That's the problem.
Seen a tweet there that they trampled the flowers left for the poor girl. Vile.
 

JMack1234

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It was International Women's Day on Monday.

And the Metropolitan Police restrained women who were protesting the murder of a 33 year old woman who was walking home.

Shameful.
 

bsCallout

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You'd be hard-pressed to find one woman who feels completely safe walking alone late at night, ever, wherever she lives. Even if it's only a fleeting thought, it's always there. Many women (including me) keep our keys in our hand, both to make sure we can get in quickly and as a potential defence.
Not sure that only applies to women to be honest.
 

JMack1234

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Not sure that only applies to women to be honest.
In some ways it doesn't.

As a man I don't always feel safe walking home at night, I'm aware that I could turn the corner and a bunch of guys could take my phone and wallet off me. However, I've never been worried than I'm going get raped or murdered or both on my way home.

That's the difference.
 

oates

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It was International Women's Day on Monday.

And the Metropolitan Police restrained women who were protesting the murder of a 33 year old woman who was walking home.

Shameful.
I'd have to suggest that they have been given no choice but to do their jobs. Maybe look higher to find blame but we are all under the same restrictions at present.
 

Ludens the Red

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She's my "best woman" at my wedding later this year, along with one of my old male school friends. If she had never told me, I would never have guessed she had been assaulted. Nobody ever would. You would just look at her and think she's a typically confident, loud, but lovely person. She's upper management at an state school, so quite an authoritative person, but with a human touch. A good person.

It's alarming. We all have mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, co-workers, neighbours. It does make me think just how many of them have had those varying degrees of unwanted contact. Unfortunately, it is a very real problem and pretending that it doesn't involve anybody we know (or either side, either the victim or the attacker) doesn't solve it. The chances are, somebody we know in some sort of capacity will be on either side of that fence. The reported stats support that, let alone the ones that go unreported.
Yuh it is. I don’t think people are deliberately pretending it doesn’t involve people they know.
By virtue of all what you said about not realising either of your friends were the suspect or victim in that case, that would apply to pretty much the majority of people.

You only know one of your mates is a rapist until he rapes someone and is arrested AND charged which we know is rare ( the arrest and charged part) . It’s not like racism or sexism where it’s evidenced by words and actions.
It’s the same with paedophiles. You only know until the fact.
 

JMack1234

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I'd have to suggest that they have been given no choice but to do their jobs. Maybe look higher to find blame but we are all under the same restrictions at present.
Oh I agree with a lot of that.

Gathering to protest is currently illegal in the UK and the Police were just enforcing the law to the letter. If you don't like the pictures and videos from Clapham Common then you should be writing to your MP, as I will be doing.

However, the Police have shown common sense and pragmatism throughout the pandemic and they should've done so today.
 

Ish

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I'd have to suggest that they have been given no choice but to do their jobs. Maybe look higher to find blame but we are all under the same restrictions at present.
Yeah, with all due respect to the deceased, I don’t understand the outrage at the police for “doing their job here”. Not to turn this into a covid thread, but so many have lost loved ones and have been unable to attend a funeral, let alone a protest/public gathering.

There’s a lot of blame to go around to the police atm, but this really shouldn’t be one of them. All a bit of a shit show all around.
 

DOTA

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My timelines are full of women who have no strong opinions about the police in general and are extremely angry about what happened tonight.

They're gonna have to apologise for this.
 

groovyalbert

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The Met Police have a particular history, and certain elements will take a generation to even begin to change.

How they couldn't have seen the need to show solidarity in allowing this vigil to be carried out peacefully, even in unison, is beyond me.
 

DOTA

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Bets on when Cressida Dick will offer her resignation for this?
Usual way is they are told they have to stick around to take the heat for a while and then leave when they're told. 6 months?
 

TheReligion

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Looks like those cops are reacting to a man going nuts?
Unless I'm blind all I'm seeing there is a man in a hood pushing a police officer from behind causing things to escalate and towards the end another man is causing issue.

I'm not seeing any women getting attacked.

Why do knobs like this woman bullshit for likes on twitter.
Pretty much. Begs the question why there's people with signs saying ACAB at a vigil in someone's memory too.
 

DOTA

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Pretty much. Begs the question why there's people with signs saying ACAB at a vigil in someone's memory too.
Cause the guy we're assuming killed her was a cop and the met had tried to stop the vigil.
 

jungledrums

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Fair enough.

It's the first I'm hearing of it, I have 4 sisters and also a 7 year old son and I can't imagine him have any interest whatsoever in doing something like that.
Young children being, at times, sexually precocious is nothing new. Has nothing to do with sexes.
 

TheReligion

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Cause the guy we're assuming killed her was a cop and the met had tried to stop the vigil.
Right. So that makes every cop a bastard...

It's clearly been mishandled by the Met. They should have just contained it despite it breaking the rules, but let's not pretend all of those people are there for the vigil and to pay their respects.
 

DOTA

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Right. So that makes every cop a bastard...

It's clearly been mishandled by the Met. They should have just contained it despite it breaking the rules, but let's not pretend all of those people are there for the vigil and to pay their respects.
You're all bastards for other reasons. As we have discussed, cordially, many times before.

Yeah, it's just an unbelievable decision from the met. In what world did they think this wouldn't look appalling?
 

TheReligion

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I'd imagine cus a cop killed her. Just a guess like.
Scroll up.

You're all bastards for other reasons. As we have discussed, cordially, many times before.

Yeah, it's just an unbelievable decision from the met. In what world did they think this wouldn't look appalling?
They have got it wrong and it's certainly not how I'd of looked to police it. It was pretty obvious there would be activists within the genuine attendees who would seize the opportunity to ignite confrontation. It's happened during all of the very legitimate gatherings we've seen over the past 12 months to varying degrees and the Met should have known better.