SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

sglowrider

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Jesus Christ. One of her parents is a nurse. And they kept her home until she “turns grey”, knowing how incredibly vulnerable she is, dose her with HCQ and refuse intubation. They should be prosecuted.
She must have been one and only batch of nurses that graduated from the Trump University Skool of Nusing.
 

F-Red

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UK 148 deaths, 820 cases

A large number for Saturday but still 578 in total so far and last week was 670 Mon-Sun. Hopefully just some accumulation of data into Sat rather than rise in cases.
38 deaths in hospital settings, so might be catch up on deaths in other settings in the data. Might suggest the bump in case data as well. Might need to wait till Wednesday till we see a change to the trend.
 

F-Red

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I don't think it's a resistance of people not wanting to wear one, I see people wearing them whilst I'm in shops. The guidance from the government is so inconsistent that isn't always clear to the public. What you find with Boris, is that he warms up an idea of something to introduce days before implementing it. I expect him to announce next week for people to wear face coverings in shops.
 

Drawfull

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I don't think it's a resistance of people not wanting to wear one, I see people wearing them whilst I'm in shops. The guidance from the government is so inconsistent that isn't always clear to the public. What you find with Boris, is that he warms up an idea of something to introduce days before implementing it. I expect him to announce next week for people to wear face coverings in shops.
Gove has said this morning that they shouldn't be compulsory, so another England U-turn incoming one would expect...
 

africanspur

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I think this is slightly unfair. I don't know what the uptake is like outside of London in fairness as I've not been outside since February now but at least here, the uptake is visibly increasing as time goes on, even in the streets. Other than a few selfish idiots, almost everyone on the underground and buses are wearing them, same in taxis. To be honest, I don't know why there isn't more zero tolerance for these people.

People have to remember that this is coming from a baseline where pretty much nobody wore them except some East Asian tourists/ students so its a big culture shift to happen suddenly.

Personally for me, its a huge faff as I have to wear a surgical mask nonstop at work now but I do it anyway. At the very least to normalise it as much as possible.

Can people comment on other European countries? How are things in Germany/ France/ Spain/ Italy etc with wearing masks in public?

Edit: So to answer my own question:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1114375/wearing-a-face-mask-outside-in-european-countries/

This is in late May so things have changed since then but perhaps it isn't that unfair then. Certainly at that time, our uptake seems much much worse than in other European countries.

Gove has said this morning that they shouldn't be compulsory, so another England U-turn incoming one would expect...
In fairness, I think Gove said he was speaking from a personal perspective on that one and from memory, he tends to lean a bit more on the libertarian side when it comes to his politics.

The MO of the government so far during this crisis seems to have been for Johnson to make a throwaway comment a few days before it becomes policy so as to prepare people? I don't really know what their thinking is. But now he's worn a mask in a shop and made that comment, I imagine they will become a bit more forceful with it in the upcoming days.
 
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africanspur

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It's crazy without a doubt but it's also one of those situations without a quick fix. Even if the school has the money for basic Chromebooks there's a bout a three month lead time on deliveries for them. I think our place has released more devices than any other further education organization in Scotland and we're still getting dozens of requests each day from students wanting a device (although a fair few just want something bigger than their own phone or tablet). We're still waiting for delivery of 300 more devices that were ordered at the end of March.
Yeah for sure it is a very very difficult situation.

Just at the very fundamental level, I feel so very sorry for these kids and I hope their opportunities in the future, already less than many other kids, do not shrink even further due to this time.
 

Drawfull

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Can people comment on other European countries? How are things in Germany/ France/ Spain/ Italy etc with wearing masks in public?



In fairness, I think Gove said he was speaking from a personal perspective on that one and from memory, he tends to lean a bit more on the libertarian side when it comes to his politics.

The MO of the government so far during this crisis seems to have been for Johnson to make a throwaway comment a few days before it becomes policy so as to prepare people? I don't really know what their thinking is. But now he's worn a mask in a shop and made that comment, I imagine they will become a bit more forceful with it in the upcoming days.
I just read the quote, so it didn't have the context but even so , with Boris hinting at it literally a couple of days ago, he should probably be on message so as to avoid confusion.

In Spain mask wearing is pretty universal where I am, but still about to become compulsory regardless of whether or not social distancing can be maintained (in Andalucía).
 

Mr Pigeon

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Yeah for sure it is a very very difficult situation.

Just at the very fundamental level, I feel so very sorry for these kids and I hope their opportunities in the future, already less than many other kids, do not shrink even further due to this time.
It's an indictment of how precarious the situation is for a lot of these schools. Like you say, kids in less affluent areas are getting the worst of it because their schools were already pushed to the brink of poverty. I highly doubt that there's many private schools in Oxford or thereabouts that are struggling to give their pupils any resources they need, yet when it comes to state school shortages many people just wheel out the old "this is an unprecedented situation" excuse. Usually followed by the line "this is not the time to discuss the issue of underfunding".
 

Mr Pigeon

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Gove has said this morning that they shouldn't be compulsory, so another England U-turn incoming one would expect...
Weak government. You need to make them mandatory otherwise folk will just take the piss, but this lot of cretins are too afraid to make anyone angry. Probably because once people start getting angry they'll begin to pay attention to politics for a few seconds, and critique this government for the first time in years, and realise how fecking useless they've been since Cameron came into power.
 

africanspur

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I just read the quote, so it didn't have the context but even so , with Boris hinting at it literally a couple of days ago, he should probably be on message so as to avoid confusion.

In Spain mask wearing is pretty universal where I am, but still about to become compulsory regardless of whether or not social distancing can be maintained (in Andalucía).
I do agree. Part of the problem seems to be that many in this government have blathered on about trusting the British population during this. Its a nice soundbite but of course, rubbish. We don't 'trust' British people for lots of things. People take exams, there are rules to follow for keeping your car road worthy and who's allowed on the road. HMRC will chase you if your taxes are incorrect etc etc.

Seems to be they just don't want to make too many decisions and, for those decisions they do make, it seems to come as a last resort.

Well then, we're definitely behind, even in London. fecking Brits.
 

SilentWitness

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Gove has said this morning that they shouldn't be compulsory, so another England U-turn incoming one would expect...
I don’t understand the line - I don’t think they should be mandatory but id encourage people to wear one. You’d not encourage people to wear one unless there was a reason to so just make them mandatory ffs. They were made mandatory in Scotland a few days ago and there’s been no problems around my area so far with people wearing them.
 

Drawfull

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I don’t understand the line - I don’t think they should be mandatory but id encourage people to wear one. You’d not encourage people to wear one unless there was a reason to so just make them mandatory ffs. They were made mandatory in Scotland a few days ago and there’s been no problems around my area so far with people wearing them.
Yes, it's crazy. Unless they actively increase transmission, people should be wearing masks and as you say, most would comply. That was borne out in a poll on here, too.

As I mentioned elsewhere, there is very little resistance here in Spain, and I expect that from next week when they become compulsory in all settings (in certain autonomous regions) that will continue to be the case.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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I don’t understand the line - I don’t think they should be mandatory but id encourage people to wear one. You’d not encourage people to wear one unless there was a reason to so just make them mandatory ffs. They were made mandatory in Scotland a few days ago and there’s been no problems around my area so far with people wearing them.
Has there been much flouting of the rules since it was made mandatory in Scotland?

In England, it's supposed to only be mandatory on public transport, but every bus I've been on in the last few weeks, I have been in the minority of people actually wearing a mask. Drivers don't say a word to those boarding without one. After reading the bus company's Twitter feed, they've stated that drivers can't do anything to enforce it.

I'm not buying that. If they can stop someone boarding because they don't have cash, or because their pass is invalid, or because the app on their phone doesn't load, they can surely stop someone boarding if they're actively ignoring a legal requirement. I was on a bus a few weeks before lockdown and the driver refused to let two girls on because they each had Subway sandwiches (unopen, wrapped up in a bag). My arse they can't enforce it.

I'd prefer if it was mandatory across the board and not just on buses and trains, especially if the operators aren't going to actually do anything about it.
 

gormless

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Has there been much flouting of the rules since it was made mandatory in Scotland?

In England, it's supposed to only be mandatory on public transport, but every bus I've been on in the last few weeks, I have been in the minority of people actually wearing a mask. Drivers don't say a word to those boarding without one. After reading the bus company's Twitter feed, they've stated that drivers can't do anything to enforce it.

I'm not buying that. If they can stop someone boarding because they don't have cash, or because their pass is invalid, or because the app on their phone doesn't load, they can surely stop someone boarding if they're actively ignoring a legal requirement. I was on a bus a few weeks before lockdown and the driver refused to let two girls on because they each had Subway sandwiches (unopen, wrapped up in a bag). My arse they can't enforce it.

I'd prefer if it was mandatory across the board and not just on buses and trains, especially if the operators aren't going to actually do anything about it.
My brothers a bus driver for Arriva. He’s quite wary because Arriva wouldn’t hesitate to feck over a driver in a customer complained and doesn’t feel he would be supported by the company if he stopped somebody getting on.
Furthermore, if somebody says “I have asthma” or other medical reason, even without any proof, they have to be let on without a mask
 

Penna

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You know, I’m not actually sure. I do know it’s the sort of thing that can end up in the courts. Which is what should happen here.
In the UK, parents can't refuse a transfusion for a child if the doctors deem it essential to save their life. I've seen adult JWs die because they refused transfusions, though.
 

GlasgowRedz

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Has there been much flouting of the rules since it was made mandatory in Scotland?
Since its been mandatory in shops I've not seen a single person inside a shop without a mask on, be that the supermarket or at the shopping centre.

Don't tend to take public transport but any buses I see, most if not all folk seem to be wearing them.

There will be people that rebel a bit against it, but they'll be in the minority I would think.
 

Ish

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Any south african that can explain how is the situation there?

infection rates are +12K and exponentially growing
We locked down early and locked down very hard - one of the harshest in the world iirc but because of certain reasons:
a) lack of those being able to abide by lockdown rules - informal settlements and the poorer areas where people live on top of one another (families of 6+ in spaces not bigger than your kitchen) or people who live on their daily wage to try and feed their families
b) lack of testing capacity so the cases were always understated
c) economic pressure forcing a 2-3 month lockdown to end so that the economy can get going again (country isnt really wealthy enough to have provided sufficient financial assistance to those impacted by the disease).

Our 2 major cities with our 2 major airports - Joburb and Cape Town seem to also be the hardest hit.

We had projections in May or so, as lockdown restrictions were about to be eased that July/August were going to be our peaks. And we can see those numbers climbing. It was a lose lose situation in the end I guess. Lots of economic and socio-economic challenges make it almost impossible to have contained the virus.

My uncle passed away from corona virus 3 weeks ago. Being a GP himself, he contracted it at one of his surgeries. There’s probably a few more reasons or things others can mention.
 
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That was really interesting and a very good read. I am certainly now thinking there will be issues. Yet reading that rapid meta study, there are definitely questions that arise from the results. For example, “The rapid review suggests that loneliness that may result from disease containment measures in the COVID-19 context could be associated with subsequent mental health problems in young people. Strategies to prevent the development of such problems should be an international priority.” There is a lot of “May” and “could” in this situation because there hasn’t been anything on this scale before. Loneliness is definitely a precursor for mental health issues, i am just not sure how lonely your average teen in isolation has been.
another new study @Wumminator...

http://enoc.eu/wp-content/uploads/2...VID-19-survey-updated-synthesis-report-FV.pdf

Children have often been presented as having less severe symptoms when contracting COVID-19 and lower mortality rates. However, the COVID-19 has had a deep and potentially long-term impact on their lives and rights. Through the ENOC- UNICEF survey and online session, Ombudspersons and Commissioners for Children identified the risks that the current COVID-19 pandemic poses on children and their rights and the mitigating and innovative measures they have put in place. Common challenges were identified. The pandemic and the challenge of staying home have indeed put a disproportionate strain on already vulnerable children, children living in precarious conditions, homeless children, children in institutions, refugee and migrant children, children with disabilities, among others.

Conclusion


In dealing with the COVID-19 outbreak, Ombudspersons and Commissioners for Children across Europe have faced a new challenge: how to continue upholding children’s rights in a context of emergency restrictions and lockdown measures. The COVID-19 crisis has had disastrous impacts on children’s lives and rights; and will most probably have far-reaching consequences for children. The outcomes of ENOC-UNICEF Survey and Online session show that the most vulnerable children (children in poverty, children in institutions, disabled children, migrant children, etc) have been and will continue to be the most affected by the COVID-19 crisis. The existing vulnerabilities have been exacerbated and inequalities have become more visible, especially regarding online education. The emergency situation has made visible a systemic failure to take into account children’s rights and wellbeing when proposing restrictive measures in some countries. It highlighted the lack of coordination and integrated approaches to children’s wellbeing. Throughout this unprecedented crisis, the role of Ombudspersons and Commissioners for Children have been more than ever essential and even strengthened, while offices had to adapt their working methods and their activities to these new challenges in order to continue to protect children and young people.
 
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Gehrman

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I think we did some pretty daft things in college, but I think deliberately throwing Co-vid19 parties is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard about.
 

horsechoker

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I think we did some pretty daft things in college, but I think deliberately throwing Co-vid19 parties is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard about.
Colleges are usually breeding grounds for STIs so this behaviour isn't that new. It's just nobody called it a gonorrhoea party.
 

decorativeed

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Jesus Christ. One of her parents is a nurse. And they kept her home until she “turns grey”, knowing how incredibly vulnerable she is, dose her with HCQ and refuse intubation. They should be prosecuted.
And the church. Invited 100 people to a party in the middle of a pandemic, where activities included games, dancing, basketball and karaoke. There was a free food buffet too.

It's almost like they didn't want to hedge their bets on people catching it via just one activity, so made sure to do all of them just in case.

Then they posted some shit after she died about how God had taken her as part of his plans. I honestly don't know how people can be so gullible.
 

redshaw

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My patient caught Covid-19 twice. So long to herd immunity hopes

https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321...7WYV_FrMLRFnFLugzbSRubKy81d6NcnjOls70jYwkdL5I

"Wait. I can catch Covid twice?” my 50-year-old patient asked in disbelief. It was the beginning of July, and he had just tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, for a second time — three months after a previous infection.

While there’s still much we don’t understand about immunity to this new illness, a small but growing number of cases like his suggest the answer is “yes.”

Covid-19 may also be much worse the second time around. During his first infection, my patient experienced a mild cough and sore throat. His second infection, in contrast, was marked by a high fever, shortness of breath, and hypoxia, resulting in multiple trips to the hospital.

Recent reports and conversations with physician colleagues suggest my patient is
not alone. Two patients in New Jersey, for instance, appear to have contracted Covid-19 a second time almost two months after fully recovering from their first infection.

It is possible, but unlikely, that my patient had a single infection that lasted three months. Some Covid-19 patients (now dubbed “long haulers”) do appear to suffer persistent infections and symptoms.

My patient, however, cleared his infection — he had two negative PCR tests after his first infection — and felt healthy for nearly six weeks."


--------------------------------

UK 21 deaths, 650 cases, 599 total this week, last week was 670.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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My patient caught Covid-19 twice. So long to herd immunity hopes

https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321...7WYV_FrMLRFnFLugzbSRubKy81d6NcnjOls70jYwkdL5I

"Wait. I can catch Covid twice?” my 50-year-old patient asked in disbelief. It was the beginning of July, and he had just tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, for a second time — three months after a previous infection.

While there’s still much we don’t understand about immunity to this new illness, a small but growing number of cases like his suggest the answer is “yes.”

Covid-19 may also be much worse the second time around. During his first infection, my patient experienced a mild cough and sore throat. His second infection, in contrast, was marked by a high fever, shortness of breath, and hypoxia, resulting in multiple trips to the hospital.

Recent reports and conversations with physician colleagues suggest my patient is
not alone. Two patients in New Jersey, for instance, appear to have contracted Covid-19 a second time almost two months after fully recovering from their first infection.

It is possible, but unlikely, that my patient had a single infection that lasted three months. Some Covid-19 patients (now dubbed “long haulers”) do appear to suffer persistent infections and symptoms.

My patient, however, cleared his infection — he had two negative PCR tests after his first infection — and felt healthy for nearly six weeks."


--------------------------------

UK 21 deaths, 650 cases, 599 total this week, last week was 670.
That’s the most depressing covid article I’ve read in months. Possibly ever.

It would have been shit news to hear about someone catching it again a year later. To catch it again after just 3 months is much worse news. I had also assumed that if you did catch it again, you’d get a milder illness. If you can catch it again quickly and you get a worse illness each time. Well then. God helps us. We’re absolutely fecked.
 
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redshaw

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That’s the most depressing covid article I’ve read in months. Possibly ever.

It would have been shit news to hear about someone catching it again a year later. To catch it again after just 3 months is much worse news. I had also assumed that if you did catch it again, you’d get a milder illness. If you can catch it again quickly and you get a worse illness each time. Well then. God helps us. We’re absolutely fecked.
Wonder if viral loads are still a huge factor in the initial response, and with people like this patient, perhaps it's a small percentage that don't generate enough antibodies.

Vaccine trials sound positive.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Wonder if viral loads are still a huge factor in the initial response, and with people like this patient, perhaps it's a small percentage that don't generate enough antibodies.
We know that the mild/asymptomatic cases often don’t generate much antibodies but I had assumed they would still be immune. For a while anyway. I also assumed if they fought it off once without much symptoms that they would have the same experience if they ever caught it again (ideally, even milder). That’s what really depressed me. Him being hospitalised with the second infection.
 

MDFC Manager

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My patient caught Covid-19 twice. So long to herd immunity hopes

https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321...7WYV_FrMLRFnFLugzbSRubKy81d6NcnjOls70jYwkdL5I

"Wait. I can catch Covid twice?” my 50-year-old patient asked in disbelief. It was the beginning of July, and he had just tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, for a second time — three months after a previous infection.

While there’s still much we don’t understand about immunity to this new illness, a small but growing number of cases like his suggest the answer is “yes.”

Covid-19 may also be much worse the second time around. During his first infection, my patient experienced a mild cough and sore throat. His second infection, in contrast, was marked by a high fever, shortness of breath, and hypoxia, resulting in multiple trips to the hospital.

Recent reports and conversations with physician colleagues suggest my patient is
not alone. Two patients in New Jersey, for instance, appear to have contracted Covid-19 a second time almost two months after fully recovering from their first infection.

It is possible, but unlikely, that my patient had a single infection that lasted three months. Some Covid-19 patients (now dubbed “long haulers”) do appear to suffer persistent infections and symptoms.

My patient, however, cleared his infection — he had two negative PCR tests after his first infection — and felt healthy for nearly six weeks."
Well, feck.
 

Cardboard elk

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My patient caught Covid-19 twice. So long to herd immunity hopes

https://www.vox.com/2020/7/12/21321...7WYV_FrMLRFnFLugzbSRubKy81d6NcnjOls70jYwkdL5I

"Wait. I can catch Covid twice?” my 50-year-old patient asked in disbelief. It was the beginning of July, and he had just tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, for a second time — three months after a previous infection.

While there’s still much we don’t understand about immunity to this new illness, a small but growing number of cases like his suggest the answer is “yes.”

Covid-19 may also be much worse the second time around. During his first infection, my patient experienced a mild cough and sore throat. His second infection, in contrast, was marked by a high fever, shortness of breath, and hypoxia, resulting in multiple trips to the hospital.

Recent reports and conversations with physician colleagues suggest my patient is
not alone. Two patients in New Jersey, for instance, appear to have contracted Covid-19 a second time almost two months after fully recovering from their first infection.

It is possible, but unlikely, that my patient had a single infection that lasted three months. Some Covid-19 patients (now dubbed “long haulers”) do appear to suffer persistent infections and symptoms.

My patient, however, cleared his infection — he had two negative PCR tests after his first infection — and felt healthy for nearly six weeks."


--------------------------------

UK 21 deaths, 650 cases, 599 total this week, last week was 670.
Does this mean vaccines must be taken often too, isn't vaccines also based upong antibodies? If antibodies disappear so quick, might not the effect of a vaccine be likewise??
 

Bosws87

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That’s the most depressing covid article I’ve read in months. Possibly ever.

It would have been shit news to hear about someone catching it again a year later. To catch it again after just 3 months is much worse news. I had also assumed that if you did catch it again, you’d get a milder illness. If you can catch it again quickly and you get a worse illness each time. Well then. God helps us. We’re absolutely fecked.
single outlier in a virus that has infected over 13million people, wouldn't be too worried at all same was reported very early in the pandemic turned out just to be false negatives.
 

JPRouve

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single outlier in a virus that has infected over 13million people, wouldn't be too worried at all same was reported very early in the pandemic turned out just to be false negatives.
It's not a single outlier, there have been previous examples that were deemed to be outliers and some speculated about false negatives, iirc the false negative theory has never been demonstrated.
 

Bosws87

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It's not a single outlier, there have been previous examples that were deemed to be outliers and some speculated about false negatives, iirc the false negative theory has never been demonstrated.
people can get chicken pox twice to in rare occasions there is no considerable evidence which points to mass reinfection.
 

JPRouve

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people can get chicken pox twice to in rare occasions there is no considerable evidence which points to mass reinfection.
I didn't talk about mass reinfection, you said that it was a single outlier and I contested that claim.
 

Cardboard elk

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people can get chicken pox twice to in rare occasions there is no considerable evidence which points to mass reinfection.
There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection either.

A common cold is an example where immunity does not last long. So, even if there is not enough proof of short immunity period, there is no proof the other way around neither.

In my head, if it turns out that immunity is short for covid-19, we can have some serious problems with an effective (long-lasting) vaccine. But maybe some people here that knows more than me can help shed some light/link some info on that?
 

golden_blunder

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We locked down early and locked down very hard - one of the harshest in the world iirc but because of certain reasons:
a) lack of those being able to abide by lockdown rules - informal settlements and the poorer areas where people live on top of one another (families of 6+ in spaces not bigger than your kitchen) or people who live on their daily wage to try and feed their families
b) lack of testing capacity so the cases were always understated
c) economic pressure forcing a 2-3 month lockdown to end so that the economy can get going again (country isnt really wealthy enough to have provided sufficient financial assistance to those impacted by the disease).

Our 2 major cities with our 2 major airports - Joburb and Cape Town seem to also be the hardest hit.

We had projections in May or so, as lockdown restrictions were about to be eased that July/August were going to be our peaks. And we can see those numbers climbing. It was a lose lose situation in the end I guess. Lots of economic and socio-economic challenges make it almost impossible to have contained the virus.

My uncle passed away from corona virus 3 weeks ago. Being a GP himself, he contracted it at one of his surgeries. There’s probably a few more reasons or things others can mention.
Sorry to hear about your uncle bud