SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Vidyoyo]

Pubs shutting at 10pm

 

[Lay]

What time do they usually close?

 

[Berbaclass]

Pubs shutting at 10pm

Exactly FFS. Either that or people will just go out earlier...

 

[Berbaclass]

What time do they usually close?

Depends really. Most between 11PM-2AM

 

[Stack]

How do we get all the basics of protecting oneself and protecting others as a social norm? I know this is a bit simplistic but finding a way to get general public buy in and compliance will help a huge amount. Wearing masks, responsible behaviour, effective hand washing etc needs to become a thing everyone wants to do rather than have it feel like its an imposition. I dont know the answer, maybe some effective advertising and education that targets the right people? Children have the ability to motivate or influence adults if approached the right way for example. Making these systems socially desired habits is a difficult task but surely its something that has to be attempted. Public buy in is key.

 

[balaks]

Pubs shutting at 10pm

They will likely be shut completely within next 2-3 weeks unfortunately

 

[Vidyoyo]

Exactly FFS. Either that or people will just go out earlier...

Assume, you probably meant my first comment? Changed as I thought people might think I was suggesting it.

I said people would just go back to their mates or whatever.

 

[Pink Moon]

Pubs shutting at 10pm

Because everyone knows this virus is picky about what time it infects someone.

 

[Mickeza]

It’s a really shitty half-way house for pubs/restaurants. You can’t eat/drink with more than 6 at a table and now they have to close at 10pm. Surely it’s better for them to get support and just been furloughed? This restricting their trade yet offering no support is the worst of all options surely?

 

[Berbaclass]

Because everyone knows this virus is picky about what time it infects someone.

It also usually waits by the door until there are 7 people together before doing it's dirty work!

 

[Dancfc]

What if there is never an effective vaccine? What then? What do you suggest?

We need to learn to live with it. It's an awful situation to have anyone dying of this virus, but we need to learn to live with it. No society can guarantee 100% that anyone will be safe. That is life. In meantime we make the best of things, but more lockdowns isn't it - especially when most people are healthy. Protect the vulnerable, but I do think we need to carry on with sensible measures.

I'm very curious as to what the "wait for a vaccine" brigades contingency plan is if the vaccine's falls through, like will they just do nothing but exist indefinitely until there time comes?

 

[cyberman]

I'm very curious as to what the "wait for a vaccine" brigades contingency plan is if the vaccine's falls through, like will they just do nothing but exist indefinitely until there time comes?

We are living with it? Unless living with it means pretend its not there?

 

[Mickeza]

I'm very curious as to what the "wait for a vaccine" brigades contingency plan is if the vaccine's falls through, like will they just do nothing but exist indefinitely until there time comes?

The contingency plan is mass community testing. The current strategy is based around living life as normal as possible without completely destroying the economy or having mass deaths and overwhelmed hospitals. I don’t really understand what this alternative you/others keep suggesting exists is?

 

[2 man midfield]

What’s the logic behind closing pubs at 10? I’m assuming there is some...

 

[christy87]

What's the point of saying anything more? You are set on what you've decided already. Lockdowns and distancing forever until the magical vaccine is produced, never mind we've never had a successful vaccine for any coronaviruses.

There has been successful vaccines for coronaviruses in other animals, the reason there has been no one for humans yet is simple the money doesn't add up for big pharma, it costs a lot to make one and keeping it up to date and still there is hundreds of more coronaviruses that cause the common cold and they would lose money on the common cold industry

 

[DOTA]

I assume the long term plan if there isn't a permanent vaccine, which it seems unlikely there will be, is that we will continue to wear masks on public transport and life expectancy will drop considerably.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There has been successful vaccines for coronaviruses in other animals, the reason there has been no one for humans yet is simple the money doesn't add up for big pharma, it costs a lot to make one and keeping it up to date and still there is hundreds of more coronaviruses that cause the common cold and they would lose money on the common cold industry

To be clear, there are four coronaviruses that cause the common cold. Along with a few rhinoviruses. And the lack of vaccinations for them isn’t about propping up Strepsil sales it’s because nobody would pay to get injected with a vaccine for a vaccine against one of the many causes of the common cold. Because, well, it’s just a cold.

 

[Berbaclass]

What’s the logic behind closing pubs at 10? I’m assuming there is some...

I'm assuming it's so everybody can be at home to celebrate this phenomenal success of the British nation.

Something along those lines.

 

[Vidyoyo]

What’s the logic behind closing pubs at 10? I’m assuming there is some...

Assume it's to curb the amount of time people spend at the pub.

Also to help gastropubs over normal pubs - think there's an implicit idea that food places are safer than drinking holes.

 

[Snowjoe]

What’s the logic behind closing pubs at 10? I’m assuming there is some...

Get everyone out before they get too pissed and sack off all the rules. I kinda get it, when I’ve been to the pub where I live everyone is being pretty good but once the night gets longer and they move on to other bars it turns into a shit show. I guess they’re trying to balance not having people out late with being late enough to actually make it worth opening

table service only too to prevent people being up and about

 

[DOTA]

To be clear, there are four coronaviruses that cause the common cold. Along with a few rhinoviruses. And the lack of vaccinations for them isn’t about propping up Strepsil sales it’s because nobody would pay to get injected with a vaccine for a vaccine against one of the many causes of the common cold. Because, well, it’s just a cold.

It's over 100 right?

 

[Pexbo]

It’s pure optics. There’s no science behind it, it’s to propagate the notion that irresponsible young people have been at fault for this spike.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I assume the long term plan if there isn't a permanent vaccine, which it seems unlikely there will be, is that we will continue to wear masks on public transport and life expectancy will drop considerably.

There’s also a good chance the virus will evolve to become less lethal. And/or repeat infections will be much milder than the initial dose (which we know happens with one of the common cold coronaviruses) so there could be a fairly benign ending even without a vaccine. Eventually.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's over 100 right?

I have no idea. I could google it though!

EDIT: I did google it. Three species. 160 subtypes.

 

[Berbaclass]

Get everyone out before they get too pissed and sack off all the rules. I kinda get it, when I’ve been to the pub where I live everyone is being pretty good but once the night gets longer and they move on to other bars it turns into a shit show. I guess they’re trying to balance not having people out late with being late enough to actually make it worth opening

table service only too to prevent people being up and about

They will either just drink more in less time or go to the pub earlier though.

 

[DOTA]

I have no idea. I could google it though!

I just did! It's 160 or so, according to wiki.

You can't vaccinate against that and we totally would if we could. Colds cost do cost the economy a small fortune.

 

[DOTA]

There’s also a good chance the virus will evolve to become less lethal. And/or repeat infections will be much milder than the initial dose (which we know happens with one of the common cold coronaviruses) so there could be a fairly benign ending even without a vaccine. Eventually.

There's certainly a chance. Is there reason to think it's a good one?

 

[arnie_ni]

If you’re a direct recent contact of a positive case you can’t risk a negative result being false, so have to err on the side of caution. When you’re testing people without symptoms it’s much easier to miss a case (might only start shedding virus a few days later)

Try explaining to an employer you've had a negative test and are still advised by the docs to isolate. It didnt fly for a few boys and they had to go back to work today.

Edit sorry pogue that sounds snarky as feck towards you, but its obviously not supposed to be

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Get everyone out before they get too pissed and sack off all the rules. I kinda get it, when I’ve been to the pub where I live everyone is being pretty good but once the night gets longer and they move on to other bars it turns into a shit show. I guess they’re trying to balance not having people out late with being late enough to actually make it worth opening

table service only too to prevent people being up and about

I wonder if a downside will be thousands of pissed up people all milling round the streets at exactly the same time? That’s not ideal.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There's certainly a chance. Is there reason to think it's a good one?

I’d say so, yes. Just look at the Spanish flu. We’ve accomodated horrible viruses in the past, so I’m sure we can do it again.

 

[Snowjoe]

I wonder if a downside will be thousands of pissed up people all milling round the streets at exactly the same time? That’s not ideal.

probably, I don’t think a lot of people give a shit anymore, loads of people give the impression they’re totally over it

 

[DOTA]

I’d say so, yes. Just look at the Spanish flu. We’ve accomodated horrible viruses in the past, so I’m sure we can do it again.

What we do doesn't change whether or not the virus becomes less lethal.

 

[Mickeza]

I wonder if a downside will be thousands of pissed up people all milling round the streets at exactly the same time? That’s not ideal.

I think it’s more likely people just won’t bother and will drink at home instead with groups of people. I tended to only just be going out drinking at 9pm on a Friday/Saturday so if it closes at 10pm anyway why bother?

 

[Rooney1987]

Assume, you probably meant my first comment? Changed as I thought people might think I was suggesting it.

I said people would just go back to their mates or whatever.

Wouldn't that be better then them sticking around the pub till 2am spreading the virus round more people?

I get people saying the virus doesn't pick a time and all. But whenever I've gone to the pub its always been well organised but as soon as it hits after 9pm, more people turn up for a night out. Then the pub has no chance of sorting the venue out for social distancing.

 

[arnie_ni]

A mate pointed out a intersting thing to me.

He said he was out in Edinburgh at the weekend and after a certain time limit his group were told to move on.

So what do they do? Move on to the next pub stay for the alotted time and move on again.

He said if someone in his group actually had covid, these time limits actually increase the spread because theyd be coming into contact with more people by being forced to jump places.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Try explaining to an employer you've had a negative test and are still advised by the docs to isolate. It didnt fly for a few boys and they had to go back to work today.

Edit sorry pogue that sounds snarky as feck towards you, but its obviously not supposed to be

No offence taken at all. That’s fecking disgraceful behaviour by their employers though. They should be named and shamed in the local media. Stupid bastards.

 

[noodlehair]

Like you say, it’s really not that simple. A lot of people don’t realise how the amount of virus in the community is still relatively low despite the rise in cases. If we take our feet off the brakes for young people and let community transmission get as high (and almost certainly much higher) than it did in the first quarter of the year then it’s just not possible to shield old people. They’ll pick it up in the shops, off carers, from relatives, at GP visits, on the buses, basically whenever they leave their house.

Which brings us on to the ethics of a public health strategy where anyone above a certain age can’t leave their house, under any circumstances, for an indefinite period of time. Without any face to face contact with their kids/grandkids. For what could be the next several years. And that would be a despicable way to treat the people in society who already have a much higher incidence of physical and mental health challenges, as well as a much shorter window to enjoy “normal” life when this shit show is over.

Yeah I get that. I don't think it should be a case of young people do what they want and old people get locked up like prisoners, but I think there are certain circumstances where we could control the risk a lot better by assessing who that risk actually applies to. The main one being work places. Instead of this blanket, one minute everyone should stay home, the next lets encourage everyone back to work approach, you could just ask work places to assess who their at risk people are. If you need an at work presence, focus that towards the younger or less at risk people, at least when the infection level is rising or significant. Most of the people at my place who aren't coming in for example ARE the younger ones, which if we get to a stage where infection rates are high again is going to start looking ridiculous...but it literally was what was happening back in May/June when the infection rate WAS high.

I get that there'll then be people moaning about discriminating based on age, but we've never had to deal with something like this before, at least not in comparable times, and if younger people are more likely to be the ones out socialising or mixing anyway, there's really little point in not using that to try and shield the more at risk people in the workplace as well.

I don't think we want another full lockdown scenario again where we shut the whole country down and have at risk people not even allowed to step foot outside their front door for months because we've failed to put any control or management systems in place. The reality is that many of them wont manage it the second time around. Particularly not when it's the winter so gardens become less of an escape and things like heating bills start becoming factors. I also don't see how the economic damage would be something we'd recover from at that point. The situation is already bleak in that regard and an awful lot of jobs on top of that are already on the brink or still reliant on temporary support systems. Add in to that, the colder weather will probably mean some people who might have fought off the infection in the summer will be less likely to.

This time we have more knowledge and more time to react so we should definitely be using that to come up with ways of managing our way through the winter without resorting to extreme and destructive measures. We need to be looking at ways to be able to live with this thing really because although it might get less severe over time and with a vaccine, it isn't going anywhere and it isn't going to stop killing people.

 

[arnie_ni]

No offence taken at all. That’s fecking disgraceful behaviour by their employers though. They should be named and shamed in the local media. Stupid bastards.

One works in a leisure centre as a lifeguard

 

[DOTA]

A mate pointed out a intersting thing to me.

He said he was out in Edinburgh at the weekend and after a certain time limit his group were told to move on.

So what do they do? Move on to the next pub stay for the alotted time and move on again.

He said if someone in his group actually had covid, these time limits actually increase the spread because theyd be coming into contact with more people by being forced to jump places.

PM's sister reckons we should just ban the sale of booze for the time being.

And, you know, try not to worry too much about all the alcoholics we murder in the process.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What we do doesn't change whether or not the virus becomes less lethal.

Um. Ok? Don’t think that changes my point. Humanity and dangerous viruses have found an equilibrium in the past where the virus doesn’t cause many significant issues a few years down the road, without any vaccine or long-term behavioural change.

That can definitely happen here. Especially when we know that coronaviruses are easier for our immune system to deal with than influenza (which is a slippery bugger)