SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Adamsk7]

I don't understand this constant (not just on these boards) speculation on it mutating in to something more deadly. At best, these theories have some sort of strange macabre where by, to me, it seems people actually WANT it to happen and at worst, it just smacks as misinformed.

A virus mutates constantly, it's what they do. There are probably lots of strains (As possibly seen in the Iceland data)but the chances of getting a more deadly one are low. The talk of the "S" and "L" strain thing is VERY wide of the mark and even in that data (which has been debunked in many places), it was shown that the "L" strain was more prevalent at the START of the outbreak and was no more severe and yet people still say things like " The one they have in Italy is the more severe L strain" like it's some kind of fact.

A more deadly virus is bad for it's evolution as it'll kill it's host more. It'll also spread less because symptoms will be far more noticeable and easier to contain, like SARS.

I might have to do myself a favour soon and not participate in message boards and social media because the amount of people out there that want this to be the end of the world is frankly disturbing.

 

[Raoul]

Have been wearing a mask since last week, which increasingly seems like a damn good idea.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

More people have died in the UK than China. Find that hard to believe personally.

Oh, I don't disbelieve that China is now improving but I don't take any of their death-related information on board, absolute bollocks, you can triple it at least.

I don't understand this constant (not just on these boards) speculation on it mutating in to something more deadly. At best, these theories have some sort of strange macabre where by, to me, it seems people actually WANT it to happen and at worst, it just smacks as misinformed.

A virus mutates constantly, it's what they do. There are probably lots of strains (As possibly seen in the Iceland data)but the chances of getting a more deadly one are low. The talk of the "S" and "L" strain thing is VERY wide of the mark and even in that data (which has been debunked in many places), it was shown that the "L" strain was more prevalent at the START of the outbreak and was no more severe and yet people still say things like " The one they have in Italy is the more severe L strain" like it's some kind of fact.

A more deadly virus is bad for it's evolution as it'll kill it's host more. It'll also spread less because symptoms will be far more noticeable and easier to contain, like SARS.

I might have to do myself a favour soon and not participate in message boards and social media because the amount of people out there that want this to be the end of the world is frankly disturbing.

I've said this before man, and this isn't aimed at any posters on here, for the record.

Crisis situations like this often bring certain characters out of the woodwork. There are a lot of very unhappy and frustrated/angry people on this planet that want to see the world burn. So they latch onto a crisis situation and peddle the worst case scenario because they DO want it to happen.

Not because they want the world to end, per se.

Because they want everyone else on the planet to feel as shitty as they do on a daily basis.

It's the great leveller - the big catastrophe that brings everyone down to their level of misery. Basically, "I've got feck all so I want everyone else to know it feels to have feck all too".

It's why I try to avoid certain conversations on the internet nowadays, you can spot this type of character quickly because there's almost a smugness about the info they are posting, like they know it's going to upset people and they are taking some joy from that.

 

[Camy89]

I personally love the whole social distancing thing. I hate people near me normally. The luxury of going to Asda and queuing with nobody within a 2m radius is absolute bliss.

 

[Hansa]

Heart breaking mate. I know a few people who work in Walsall Manor Hospital (as my children go to school in that town). I myself work at The Royal Wolverhampton NHS Trust (Risk department) and I really cannot comprehend how brave front line staff are.

If there is one thing that makes me angry, it's the way in which governments around the world have left healthcare workers in the lurch by not giving each and every one of them adequate PPE, while publicly trying to make it appear as though everything is under control in that regard. Yes, we understand that this virus is insidious and will claim the lives of many high-risk patients, but if the obituary section is filled up with doctors, nurses and caregivers, that is where the real political backlash will be after the dust has settled. Factories all around the world should be mass-producing this shit now.

 

[cyberman]

Not directed at you exclusively (especially as for all I remember I may well have done the same in the past) but regarding the closure of pubs, I'm consistently surprised at the amount of non-experts who can confidently state when the most opportune time to implement a given measure was, seemingly without need to refer to any of the data, data modelling or years of study actual experts seem to rely on. Unless you think the answer is to introduce all measures immediately I have no idea how you'd judge when to implement measure X in relation to measures Y, or how either will interact with measure Z. It certainly isn't something I'd be able to judge, any more than I'd be able to judge when and how to treat someone's cancer or what changes then need to be made to that treatment plan based on how the patient responds.

You'd swear there wasn't any science whatsoever to planning out a response to something like this, just people guessing when the right time is based on what they feel. An approach that if adopted by government would be very damaging populism.

As for the 10-15k tests per day, that's still their stated goal so we'll actually be able to judge directly over the coming weeks how far off they end up.

I do think the praise for Ireland's response has largely been a result of having the UK as a very present example of how much worse it could have been handled though, with several of our own issues having initially been overlooked. The nursing home point being an example. We know it was flagged as an issue quite a while ago, we know basic common sense suggested it would be an issue and now we're seeing that play out in the data.

But what is the science? First we were following South Korea until we werent. Pubs etc closed like a week after schools so i fail to see where the science says we needed that one extra week of mass contamination. Say we are 6 weeks into lockdown where pubs and parks were closed, would fatigue set in if it were 7? Why the delay?

We are an island but instead of using that to our advantage and starting dialogue with the north we piss them off by movng forward without informing them thus creating this oprn back door scenario.
We let in the italians for the rugby, simply advised against the 6 nations match from happening, let in the Cheltenham crown unchecked. Hell we were letting in flights from Italy and Asia unchecked long after we knew what was coming.

I keep saying we are following science as if its blind faith and we cant question what they are doing. Hell weeks ago people were asking for restrictions on nursing homes that were turned down for science yet thats where the clusters are.
Thats where my problms lay, we seem to be reactionary while pretending to be proactive. At one stage we were blaming the spread on nurses not washing their hands properly or Leo fecking off to USA still expecting a parade to happen.

Then Chinese equipment were flagged by the Dutch as sub standard only for our government to say itll be grand, we'll judge it ourselves before we buy and they feck that up too.
It was 200 a week while off work, pubs and parks shut after social media outcries, Leo telling us at the start that not much money was being put aside for the incoming Virus. He even told us last week that he just found out construction in UK and Italy didnt include construction and surprise, surprise he tried his very best to keep them open here until another outcry overtook him.

Ireland being proactive is a myth

 

[Fener1907]

Mutation is the only thing that would give some sense to this situation. I mean, if they wanted to hide it surely you wouldn't be showing even more than 16k infected and 300 deaths so far, surely that would be hidden too?

Don't think anybody's hiding anything. Things tend to arise from incompetence more than anything else.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I personally love the whole social distancing thing. I hate people near me normally. The luxury of going to Asda and queuing with nobody within a 2m radius is absolute bliss.

God your Asda clientele must be well behaved. Every supermarket I've been in since this started has seen orderly queues outside and then a fecking scrum just inside the doors because people can't seem to see black and white stripey tape on the floor.

 

[Camy89]

God your Asda clientele must be well behaved. Every supermarket I've been in since this started has seen orderly queues outside and then a fecking scrum just inside the doors because people can't seem to see black and white stripey tape on the floor.

To be fair, for the rep that Glasgow gets, it's citizens are reasonably good at this decorum in my experience. I even saw a couple of junkies outside Farmfoods arguing about how far apart they needed to be. Turned out the over egged it by being about 10m apart, but the sentiment remains.

 

[Carolina Red]

To complete that info. The amount of known Covid-19 death in care homes is 884 out of 14638 people infected.

Gah, that's brutal. Seems that in South Carolina the initial incubator for Covid was senior care homes as well.

 

[0le]

Have been wearing a mask since last week, which increasingly seems like a damn good idea.

Some important things to note:

They are droplets, not particles. This is an extremely important distinction in this case because large droplets can deform and be highly non-spherical. The deformation can lead to break up into smaller droplets and this field of work is called aerodynamic breakup. Particles are typically non-spherical, but they are rigid and less prone to break up, depending on the material.

Secondly, the are not light. Particles/droplets which have a density which is significantly larger than the surrounding air (or whatever the surrounding fluid is) are called dense or heavy. Droplets in air are considered heavy. Light particles/droplets refers to a situation where the density of the particles/droplets are smaller than the surrounding air (or again, whatever fluid they reside in). The dynamics of heavy and light particles differ. You can usually ignore bouyancy forces for heavy particles/droplets, but not light particles/droplets for example. If the particles/droplets have the same density as the air, then they are called neutrally bouyant. The distinction is important because the research is sub-divided using this terminolgy. You will find papers which study "heavy" particles and others which study "light" or "neutrally bouyant".

Calling droplets "microdroplets", when exhaled via sneezing, when you have initially stated there are droplets with up to millimeters in size is misleading. It is better to say a "cloud" of droplets instead.

Most of the simulations with regards to the motion of droplets in air (multiphase flows) have issues. The majority ignore any coupling effects (i.e. they ignore any influence the droplet has on the motion of the surounding air etc and collisions between droplets). In this case, it normally isn't too important because you have so few droplets. We call this a dilute air flow. Many will also lack modelling clustering mechanisms (where droplets get closer together in space and could make the dilute assumption invalid at these localised regions) and these mechanisms are already known to (via experiment) to change how quickly the droplets settle to the floor. Finally, when you give no details about how you actually carry out the simulation, you should really ignore the simulation part of the video full stop. CFD has lots of different pitfalls for modelling just air on its own, so you had better state the method before showing fancy videos.

The end bit, saying "the droplets can't move on their own" is incorrect. If there is no air motion, the droplets will still move because of the force of gravity. There will also be a bouyancy force and drag of course. They will settle to the ground and experiments to show their terminal velocity are here. But yes, the smaller they are, the longer they will take to settle, and particles/droplets <20 micron are influenced partially by Brownian motion and this becomes more significant at <1 micron.

When they say "opening windows is believed to be effective" it is also misleading. Of course it is effective! Introducing any form of motion means that there are advective transport mechanisms (this means motion in bulk i.e movement across large distances rather than molecular motion) to move particles/droplets from one place to another. Ultimately this means the particles/droplets disperse through a large area rather than staying broadly within the same location.

The final bit, as to why the particles/droplets move, is related to something called the "Stokes number". This is a number which characterises effectively how well the particles/droplets move in the air. Since the small particles/droplets have a very small mass, they have little inertia. So when the air imparts energy to the particles/droplets, they offer very little resistance and are "happy" to move along with the flow. In this case, th particles/droplets have a very low Stokes number. Any such particle/droplet with a low Stokes number will follow well any air motion. This is well known for decades, it is nothing particularly new. The main challenge is that this Stokes number also depends on the size of the droplets as well as characteristics of the surrounding air. This means that a) it is not clear what the Stokes number is for a cloud of droplets of different size and b) you need to know some information about the air.

EDIT: I have ignored talking about evapouration because I don't know much about it but that will also be an important consideration.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Ugh 684
Think we'll now enter a period of complete lockdown.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I do think if FG didnt do as shit as they did during the election we wouldnt be hearing how great Irelands response has been.
Pubs should have been closed earlier, there were calls weeks ago to safeguard nursing homes etc, hell they tried to stretch the pub ban to just after Paddys day until social media took hold.
We need to wake up. 15,000 test per day was always pie in the sky and if it were Boris who tried bluffing that he would be a laughing stock, especailly when our rate of testing has gone the other way.
From letting the Italian fans in for the 6 nations untested to pushing through our measures without discussion with NI when they were open to talks which caused a rift, we have been playing catchup. I think we are in for a rude awakening once the notion of pretending we are on top of it so we can laugh at the neighbours disappears.

Or, you know, they got the appropriate advice from the experts and acted on it accordingly.

One thing that backseat driver Twitter experts don’t get in all of this is that even the people who know considerably more about all of this than they do don’t always agree on everything. It easy to say the pubs should have closed on exactly this day, and schools on exactly this day and so on but those are huge decisions and getting a consensus from everyone involved won’t be easy. Which is further complicated by the day to day changes to scientific consensus, re the infectiousness and lethality of the virus. It’s why so many countries have so many different approaches, despite all of them being guided by legitimate experts who know infinitely more than paddy277575 on Twitter about how and when to introduce Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions in a pandemic.

I’ve been as critical of the UK and US approach as anyone but that’s because they’ve so obviously contradicted themselves with their dramatic changes in approach, as well as their shambolic mixed messages coming from their leader.

In Ireland they’ve been as consistent as possible, despite dealing with curveballs that are completely out of their control, such as global shortages of testing reagents and PPE. They’ve also been pretty clear and precise with their advice, based on the best available evidence at the time. Obviously, with hindsight, there were things they could have done differently but they’ve not done a bad job at all, based on the information and expert advice they had at the time.

 

[sullydnl]

But what is the science? First we were following South Korea until we werent. Pubs etc closed like a week after schools so i fail to see where the science says we needed that one extra week of mass contamination. Say we are 6 weeks into lockdown where pubs and parks were closed, would fatigue set in if it were 7? Why the delay?

We are an island but instead of using that to our advantage and starting dialogue with the north we piss them off by movng forward without informing them thus creating this oprn back door scenario.
We let in the italians for the rugby, simply advised against the 6 nations match from happening, let in the Cheltenham crown unchecked. Hell we were letting in flights from Italy and Asia unchecked long after we knew what was coming.

I keep saying we are following science as if its blind faith and we cant question what they are doing. Hell weeks ago people were asking for restrictions on nursing homes that were turned down for science yet thats where the clusters are.
Thats where my problms lay, we seem to be reactionary while pretending to be proactive. At one stage we were blaming the spread on nurses not washing their hands properly or Leo fecking off to USA still expecting a parade to happen.

Then Chinese equipment were flagged by the Dutch as sub standard only for our government to say itll be grand, we'll judge it ourselves before we buy and they feck that up too.
It was 200 a week while off work, pubs and parks shut after social media outcries, Leo telling us at the start that not much money was being put aside for the incoming Virus. He even told us last week that he just found out construction in UK and Italy didnt include construction and surprise, surprise he tried his very best to keep them open here until another outcry overtook him.

Ireland being proactive is a myth

I can't tell you what the science is, that's my point, I'm not remotely qualified to argue it.

What I can say is that from various bits and pieces I've read it appears different measures have different impacts at different times, different measures react to other measures and different measures have their own negative secondary effects which have to be countered. Which means that in order to judge the best time to implement a given measure (neither too early nor too late to be its most effective) you have to judge it in relation to more factors than I could conveniently list. So when you ask "why not a week earlier", that's why. Or maybe it isn't. Neither of us are qualified to say or second guess, really. I'm not even in a position to judge how accurate those bits and pieces I read actually are. And even people who are qualified may well have differing opinions as that tends to be how science and medicine works.

What we can do though is compare it to the consensus approach of other countries and the recommendations of expert bodies like the WHO, which Ireland has been largely in line with throughout. Beyond that... *shrugs*

As for the north, there may well have been political mistakes in the government's approach. It's not exactly an easy political situation even at the best of times though and if we're looking to point fingers at someone for the divergence in response across the island, most would probably point to the UK government's initial decision to go in a rather atypical direction. The ROI government didn't create the back door that is NI, nor are they the primary government responsible for dictating the direction NI takes.

It's also worth pointing out that every single government will make mistakes, mistakes which will cost lives. They're all hopelessly overmatched and unprepared and trying their best in those circumstances. I don't think our mistakes thus far are particularly out of order or unreasonable relative to what's going on in the rest of the world.

 

[4bars]

It's not the tinfoil in your veins that's objectionable it's the pile of shite in your head. The Japanese are renowned for respecting the aged, your opinion must be very offensive to them.

I'd lay off the booze if I were you

Some posters really should look inside themselves






Do they truthfully not realise how hateful and full of bile their comments appear. At a time when parts of the world are fighting for its very existence. Shame on them not of course that they will feel any I’m sure.

Sorry, I will never think ill of any government ever thanks to your comments. we accept they can kill their citizens for the Olympics (image) but not for economic reasons, huh.

China can cook numbers but Japan (that is suspected to do it) now is the most respectable government

Suit yourself

 

[Moiraine]

30% of Sanchez's salary could fund the entire NHS

i love you

 

[Pogue Mahone]

From Ireland:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Presumably this is the gear we just bought from China, with much fanfare. Varadkar even made sure a picture of him ringing Beijing to say thanks was distributed through the media.

Which makes me wonder why the feck we thought our experience of buying gear from them would be any different to the Turks, Italians, Spanish and Dutch, who I believe all had similar issues?

Presumably because we were shit out of other options. From what I’ve heard from medic friends the vast majority of the stuff they got from China is absolutely fine. We’re still desperately short of supply though, so will need to keep scrambling for more. Which is a bit of a nightmare considering every country on the planet is doing the same. Many of them with MUCH bigger pockets and influence than we have.

 

[2cents]

This is my local surgery actually. They've been ripped apart in the Welsh media.

Off topic somewhat, can someone explain something to me because I can't understand this one:

Iran.

As far as I'm aware, Iran were the second country to be badly hit.

How? Iran is quite an insular country. It far from borders China. The Iranians are not known as big travellers or overseas tourists. And as far as I'm aware there isn't a massive Chinese community there, or much of an ex-pat situation in general?

How did it arrive in such a brutal fashion in Iran, a country that seems very unconnected to the rest of the world?

It’s most likely because it arrived in Iran with Chinese pilgrims visiting the shrine city of Qom. Iran might seem relatively disconnected, but it is the center of transnational Shi’ism, and the cities of Qom and Mashhad attract Shi’i Muslim visitors from around the world. These shrines are extremely busy and congested, and pilgrims who visit them aim to touch and in many cases kiss the exterior of the actual shrine. So Qom emerged as the epicenter of the virus in Iran early on, and from there it naturally spread quickly through the rest of the country and beyond.

 

[Camy89]

I don't understand this constant (not just on these boards) speculation on it mutating in to something more deadly. At best, these theories have some sort of strange macabre where by, to me, it seems people actually WANT it to happen and at worst, it just smacks as misinformed.

A virus mutates constantly, it's what they do. There are probably lots of strains (As possibly seen in the Iceland data)but the chances of getting a more deadly one are low. The talk of the "S" and "L" strain thing is VERY wide of the mark and even in that data (which has been debunked in many places), it was shown that the "L" strain was more prevalent at the START of the outbreak and was no more severe and yet people still say things like " The one they have in Italy is the more severe L strain" like it's some kind of fact.

A more deadly virus is bad for it's evolution as it'll kill it's host more. It'll also spread less because symptoms will be far more noticeable and easier to contain, like SARS.

I might have to do myself a favour soon and not participate in message boards and social media because the amount of people out there that want this to be the end of the world is frankly disturbing.

Agree.

The natural course of a virus is to survive as long as possible with a preferred route of becoming more infectious but less lethal. SARS was an exception. People seem to think it'll get both more infectious AND lethal, which is counter-intuitive in itself.

 

[Cardboard elk]

Horrifying video from Ecuador on CNN. Guess we will see more and more news like this from poorer nations

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/04/03/ecuador-coronavirus-bodies-rivers-intl-pkg-vpx.cnn

 

[Grinner]

Has Whitty been heard from?

 

[redshaw]

Have been wearing a mask since last week, which increasingly seems like a damn good idea.

Great video. Might be best in the sticky thread if not already there.

I do believe masks are the key reason for the lack of spread in Asian countries. Japan and Hong Kong have way more Chinese tourists as well.

Masks will collect more droplets, less projection, less landing on surfaces. Contamination doesn't spiral and should be worn at home at times.

I would've had companies mass produce them and send everyone a box ages ago. Cost verses the damage now is a few pennies in comparison. Also trains you to not touch face, asymptomatic spreaders can be greatly lessened, sick people can wear one without being self conscious if more or most are wearing one and instructed to do so. Especially in shops, care homes. This is being brought into care homes and would've had testing done on these people regularly.

Instead of WHO and western people trying to downplay them and worrying about the supply, just make more already.

 

[0le]

Great video. Might be best in the sticky thread if not already there.

I do believe masks are the key reason for the lack of spread in Asian countries. Japan and Hong Kong have way more Chinese tourists as well.

Masks will collect more droplets, less projection, less landing on surfaces. Contamination doesn't spiral and should be worn at home at times.

I would've had companies mass produce them and send everyone a box ages ago. Cost verses the damage now is a few pennies in comparison. Also trains you to not touch face, asymptomatic spreaders can be greatly lessened, sick people can wear one without being self conscious if more or most are wearing one and instructed to do so. Especially in shops, care homes. This is being brought into care homes and would've had testing done on these people regularly.

Instead of WHO and western people trying to downplay them and worrying about the supply, just make more already.

We've already had the discussion about masks quite a lot. No one disputes that they can be effective, but the issue is compliance (wearing them correctly, taking them off correctly, wearing the correct type etc) and also supply - there is a finite amount of resources. People can barely listen to instructions of staying indoors so can you imagine trying to get the public to wear masks properly. You are right it will have some effect even when worn incorrectly. The main concern however is most people will assume they are wearing them correctly, giving them a false sense of security and thereby possibly changing their behavioural habits. This may lead them to breaking isolation if they think it is okay when for some of those wearing it incorrectly, it is not.

The main focus must be to get these masks to keyworkers i.e. all people working in hospitals and all carers first, which also includes training. Other keyworkers can later be added such as supermarket staff, plumbers, electricians and whatever.

The video also has two glaring mistakes, which makes me question whether the authors know what they are talking about.

 

[Raoul]

Good video about droplets

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Amazon stopped selling masks to the public. I don’t know how I’d get one if I had to wear one.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

In Ireland they’ve been as consistent as possible, despite dealing with curveballs that are completely out of their control, such as global shortages of testing reagents and PPE. They’ve also been pretty clear and precise with their advice, based on the best available evidence at the time. Obviously, with hindsight, there were things they could have done differently but they’ve not done a bad job at all, based on the information and expert advice they had at the time.

Is there even any indications so far that Ireland acted too late with closing pubs, then lockdown etc?

 

[Raoul]

Amazon stopped selling masks to the public. I don’t know how I’d get one if I had to wear one.

Ebay

 

[Cardboard elk]

Regarding droplets/aerosols/airborne ability of Covid-19:

CNN : Coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing

CDC: COVID-19 Outbreak Associated with Air Conditioning in Restaurant, Guangzhou, China, 2020

 

[redshaw]

We've already had the discussion about masks quite a lot. No one disputes that they can be effective, but the issue is compliance (wearing them correctly, taking them off correctly, wearing the correct type etc) and also supply - there is a finite amount of resources. People can barely listen to instructions of staying indoors so can you imagine trying to get the public to wear masks properly. You are right it will have some effect even when worn incorrectly. The main concern however is most people will assume they are wearing them correctly, giving them a false sense of security and thereby possibly changing their behavioural habits. This may lead them to breaking isolation if they think it is okay when for some of those wearing it incorrectly, it is not.

The main focus must be to get these masks to keyworkers i.e. all people working in hospitals and all carers first, which also includes training. Other keyworkers can later be added such as supermarket staff, plumbers, electricians and whatever.

The video also has two glaring mistakes, which makes me question whether the authors know what they are talking about.

These concerns I would say are far outweighed by the many who do or would wear them properly and combating the spiraling nature of contamination. Also people would learn the more they wear them and you can have more instructions.

 

[AllezLesDiables]

Any positive economists on here?

7months from now, once the mortgage holidays and all the payment deferrals are done with, and banks And lenders start wanting that $ back, what’s the best case scenario for the state of the world then? My understanding is that some lenders are tagging payments on at the end of the term, but some will be asking for their money once the deferral period is up. At that stage, we will have the most people in history unable to pay their bills, what happens in that situation?

Need someone to explain how it won’t be as bad as my logical brain tells me it almost certainly will be.

The positive is that countries that paid their people during the outbreak will be able to do over more quickly and will have few incidents of civil unrest and fewer deaths resulting from famine.

A country like U.S. sadly may have many additional casualties due to famine and civil unrest seems like an inevitability.

So news is only good for countries that care for their citizenry

 

[Rory 7]

Or, you know, they got the appropriate advice from the experts and acted on it accordingly.

One thing that backseat driver Twitter experts don’t get in all of this is that even the people who know considerably more about all of this than they do don’t always agree on everything. It easy to say the pubs should have closed on exactly this day, and schools on exactly this day and so on but those are huge decisions and getting a consensus from everyone involved won’t be easy. Which is further complicated by the day to day changes to scientific consensus, re the infectiousness and lethality of the virus. It’s why so many countries have so many different approaches, despite all of them being guided by legitimate experts who know infinitely more than paddy277575 on Twitter about how and when to introduce Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions in a pandemic.

I’ve been as critical of the UK and US approach as anyone but that’s because they’ve so obviously contradicted themselves with their dramatic changes in approach, as well as their shambolic mixed messages coming from their leader.

In Ireland they’ve been as consistent as possible, despite dealing with curveballs that are completely out of their control, such as global shortages of testing reagents and PPE. They’ve also been pretty clear and precise with their advice, based on the best available evidence at the time. Obviously, with hindsight, there were things they could have done differently but they’ve not done a bad job at all, based on the information and expert advice they had at the time.

Have to say I agree with you. I know there is a pretty well managed PR campaign by our govt comms unit (that at times can be pretty cringe) but all that aside I think he have genuinely been following the health professionals advice as best they can. In fairness to FG, they have done well.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Amazon stopped selling masks to the public. I don’t know how I’d get one if I had to wear one.

They will cost a lot if you do find someone selling them.

I went into my local pharmacy today to get hand sanitizer. First bottle was 16 euro. Before this crisis the same bottle would have been four euro.

I ended up getting a smaller bottle for seven euro. That was still over priced.

 

[Maticmaker]

It would take a spectacularly fecking stupid deity to try and control over-population by creating a disease that was lethal for the elderly but leaves kids more or less untouched. Goes without saying that anyone who would take that theory seriously is just as stupid.

Nevertheless the world does #replenish# itself in terms of population, by the old dying off and the young breeding, it is part of the natural cycle. If occasionally things gets accelerated by Nature/God , through disease etc. it does have a 'culling effect' and reduces the load so to speak. After the great plague, in Europe in particular, roughly a third of the population perished, leaving the remaining two thirds, with more food to eat, more space to expand into and greater access to natural resources. Lots of lessons were learned, and things progressed for a while, maybe the human race is approaching another such 'pinch-point'. Certainly many in the 'Extinction Rebellion' movement seem to think so.

 

[Irwin99]

Been indoors for almost two weeks, felt like just having a little walk outside and then I saw that video posted about droplets. Think i'll stay inside.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

We've already had the discussion about masks quite a lot. No one disputes that they can be effective, but the issue is compliance (wearing them correctly, taking them off correctly, wearing the correct type etc) and also supply - there is a finite amount of resources. People can barely listen to instructions of staying indoors so can you imagine trying to get the public to wear masks properly. You are right it will have some effect even when worn incorrectly. The main concern however is most people will assume they are wearing them correctly, giving them a false sense of security and thereby possibly changing their behavioural habits. This may lead them to breaking isolation if they think it is okay when for some of those wearing it incorrectly, it is not.

The main focus must be to get these masks to keyworkers i.e. all people working in hospitals and all carers first, which also includes training. Other keyworkers can later be added such as supermarket staff, plumbers, electricians and whatever.

The video also has two glaring mistakes, which makes me question whether the authors know what they are talking about.

Watching the daily UK Govt/Medical briefing - as usual, Jonathan Van Tam (medical guy) comes across very well. And he called Peston out t'other day so he gets bonus points for that.

One of the journalists has just asked if there are benefits to wearing a facemask.....

JVT says "a controversial area in 15 years he's been involved"... "on phone today to professor who works with WHO".... "there is no evidence that face masks help"... "The key is social distancing".... "It's frequent in some countries".... "We do not recommend wearing face masks in the UK"

Pretty clear view.

 

[Berbaclass]

Been indoors for almost two weeks, felt like just having a little walk outside and then I saw that video posted about droplets. Think i'll stay inside.

I'm approaching week 3. I have zero interest in venturing out right now.

 

[0le]

Been indoors for almost two weeks, felt like just having a little walk outside and then I saw that video posted about droplets. Think i'll stay inside.

When outdoors most of the time there is motion in the surrounding air for the droplets to disperse them considerably. The stronger the motion (i.e. if it happens to be quite windy), the greater (and faster) the dispersion. The chance of inhaling a stray droplet in a secluded area is therefore very slim. Don't be fooled by the video. I've already explained above, simulations of these processes aren't great. The experiment was interesting, but it seems it was carried out indoor with little to no surrounding air motion, which is usually unrealistic when going outdoors.

They will cost a lot if you do find someone selling them.

I went into my local pharmacy today to get hand sanitizer. First bottle was 16 euro. Before this crisis the same bottle would have been four euro.

I ended up getting a smaller bottle for seven euro. That was still over priced.

You could also use a bar of soap, normally they are a lot cheaper and also, at least for me, last a lot longer.

 

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[redshaw]

I'm approaching week 3. I have zero interest in venturing out right now.

Should disperse easily outside, it's more in shops and homes with other people and other confined spaces.

 

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