SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness or memes please)

Darkhorsez

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Oct 24, 2017
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1,885
Location
Canada
Horrible news from canada. All but two caregivers left the nursing home for 130 elders, while the relatives were told to avoid visits due to Covid-19. Several dead and people left for themselves in excrements and without food for days.. :( How is this possible. I hope there will be severe punishment for those responsible.

https://www.barrons.com/news/horrors-revealed-at-virus-hit-canada-nursing-home-01587174605
Yeah it’s very disturbing and disgusting. whilst I am happy with government and provincial response to covid, this is one aspect that they got badly wrong. Very slow to investigate and take appropriate actions. It’s a horrible situation for the people effected and their families. So sad the pain this goddam virus has inflected in a relatively short period. Hopefully there will be lessons learned.
 

redshaw

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Jul 17, 2015
Messages
4,975
Large increase in UK testing today (think it's the first time past 20k tests and 15k people). 5,526 positives (similar to yesterday but from more tests), 888 deaths.

Yesterday was just shy of 14k people tested out of 21.3k so not a big increase.

Not good numbers again for the end of the 4th week of lockdown.
 

Ekkie Thump

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Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,401
Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. Deaths in England remained flat today with 738 being reported (-2). This again lends weak support to the idea that we might've seen peak deaths on 8th April. More concerning is the sudden surge in new cases to 5,600 (+1k from yesterday). This is the highest single day total since April 5th. I wonder if Easter shenanigans might've had something to do with it.

Orange is a 5 day trailing average (last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes):
Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. Reported deaths grew by 46 to 784. Certainly seems like we've at least reached a plateau.

Orange is a 5 day trailing average, hopefully it remains above the daily death line.
Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
 

redshaw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
4,975

United Kingdom
Dates​
UK
Deaths​
Italy Dates​
Italy Deaths​
Mar 8th​
3​
Feb-23rd​
3​
Mar 9th​
5​
Feb 24th​
7​
Mar 10th​
6​
Feb 25th​
11​
Mar 11th​
8​
Feb 26th​
12​
Mar 12th​
10​
Feb 27th​
17​
Mar 13th​
11​
Feb 28th​
21​
Mar 14th​
21​
Feb 29th​
29​
Mar 15th​
35​
Mar 1st​
41​
Mar 16th​
55​
Mar 2nd​
52​
Mar 17th​
71​
Mar 3rd​
79​
Mar 18th​
104​
Mar 4th​
107​
Mar 19th​
144​
Mar 5th​
148​
Mar 20th​
177​
Mar 6th​
197​
Mar 21st​
233​
Mar 7th​
233​
Mar 22nd​
281​
Mar 8th​
366​
Mar 23rd​
335​
Mar 9th​
463​
Mar 24th​
422​
Mar 10th​
631​
Mar 25th​
468​
Mar 11th​
827​
Mar 26th​
578​
Mar 12th​
1,016​
Mar 27th​
759​
Mar 13th​
1,266​
Mar 28th​
1,019​
Mar 14th​
1,441​
Mar 29th​
1,228​
Mar 15th​
1,809​
Mar 30th​
1,408​
Mar 16th​
2,158​
Mar 31st​
1,789​
Mar 17th​
2,503​
Apr 1st​
2,352​
Mar 18th​
2,978​
Apr 2nd​
2,921​
Mar 19th​
3,405​
Apr 3rd​
3,605​
Mar 20th​
4,032​
Apr 4th​
4,313​
Mar 21st​
4,825​
Apr 5th​
4,934​
Mar 22nd​
5,475​
Apr 6th​
5,373​
Mar 23rd​
6,077​
Apr 7th​
6,159​
Mar 24th​
6,820​
Apr 8th​
7,097​
Mar 25th​
7,503​
Apr 9th​
7,978​
Mar 26th​
8,215​
Apr 10th​
8,958​
Mar 27th​
9,134​
Apr 11th​
9,875​
Mar 28th​
10,023​
Apr 12th​
10,612​
Mar 29th​
10,779​
Apr 13th​
11,329​
Mar 30th​
11,591​
Apr 14th​
12,107​
Mar 31st​
12,428​
Apr 15th​
12,868​
Apr 1st​
13,155​
Apr 16th​
13,729​
Apr 2nd​
13,915​
Apr 17th​
14,576​
Apr 3rd​
14,681​
Apr 18th​
15,464​
Apr 4th​
15,362​
Apr 19th​
Apr 5th​
15,887​
Apr 20th​
Apr 6th​
16,523​
Apr 21st​
Apr 7th​
17,127​
Apr 8th​
17,669​
Apr 9th​
18,279​
Officially unofficially broke past Italy without much fuss and a two week heads up.
 

Ramshock

CAF Pilib De Brún Translator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
40,222
Location
Swimming against a tide of idiots and spoofers

United Kingdom
Dates​
UK
Deaths​
Italy Dates​
Italy Deaths​
Mar 8th​
3​
Feb-23rd​
3​
Mar 9th​
5​
Feb 24th​
7​
Mar 10th​
6​
Feb 25th​
11​
Mar 11th​
8​
Feb 26th​
12​
Mar 12th​
10​
Feb 27th​
17​
Mar 13th​
11​
Feb 28th​
21​
Mar 14th​
21​
Feb 29th​
29​
Mar 15th​
35​
Mar 1st​
41​
Mar 16th​
55​
Mar 2nd​
52​
Mar 17th​
71​
Mar 3rd​
79​
Mar 18th​
104​
Mar 4th​
107​
Mar 19th​
144​
Mar 5th​
148​
Mar 20th​
177​
Mar 6th​
197​
Mar 21st​
233​
Mar 7th​
233​
Mar 22nd​
281​
Mar 8th​
366​
Mar 23rd​
335​
Mar 9th​
463​
Mar 24th​
422​
Mar 10th​
631​
Mar 25th​
468​
Mar 11th​
827​
Mar 26th​
578​
Mar 12th​
1,016​
Mar 27th​
759​
Mar 13th​
1,266​
Mar 28th​
1,019​
Mar 14th​
1,441​
Mar 29th​
1,228​
Mar 15th​
1,809​
Mar 30th​
1,408​
Mar 16th​
2,158​
Mar 31st​
1,789​
Mar 17th​
2,503​
Apr 1st​
2,352​
Mar 18th​
2,978​
Apr 2nd​
2,921​
Mar 19th​
3,405​
Apr 3rd​
3,605​
Mar 20th​
4,032​
Apr 4th​
4,313​
Mar 21st​
4,825​
Apr 5th​
4,934​
Mar 22nd​
5,475​
Apr 6th​
5,373​
Mar 23rd​
6,077​
Apr 7th​
6,159​
Mar 24th​
6,820​
Apr 8th​
7,097​
Mar 25th​
7,503​
Apr 9th​
7,978​
Mar 26th​
8,215​
Apr 10th​
8,958​
Mar 27th​
9,134​
Apr 11th​
9,875​
Mar 28th​
10,023​
Apr 12th​
10,612​
Mar 29th​
10,779​
Apr 13th​
11,329​
Mar 30th​
11,591​
Apr 14th​
12,107​
Mar 31st​
12,428​
Apr 15th​
12,868​
Apr 1st​
13,155​
Apr 16th​
13,729​
Apr 2nd​
13,915​
Apr 17th​
14,576​
Apr 3rd​
14,681​
Apr 18th​
15,464​
Apr 4th​
15,362​
Apr 19th​
Apr 5th​
15,887​
Apr 20th​
Apr 6th​
16,523​
Apr 21st​
Apr 7th​
17,127​
Apr 8th​
17,669​
Apr 9th​
18,279​
Officially unofficially broke past Italy without much fuss and a two week heads up.
Two worst leaders Trump/Johnson
 

Shakesey

Full Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
1,740
Location
Directly under the sun... NOW!

United Kingdom
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UK
Deaths​
Italy Dates​
Italy Deaths​
Mar 8th​
3​
Feb-23rd​
3​
Mar 9th​
5​
Feb 24th​
7​
Mar 10th​
6​
Feb 25th​
11​
Mar 11th​
8​
Feb 26th​
12​
Mar 12th​
10​
Feb 27th​
17​
Mar 13th​
11​
Feb 28th​
21​
Mar 14th​
21​
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29​
Mar 15th​
35​
Mar 1st​
41​
Mar 16th​
55​
Mar 2nd​
52​
Mar 17th​
71​
Mar 3rd​
79​
Mar 18th​
104​
Mar 4th​
107​
Mar 19th​
144​
Mar 5th​
148​
Mar 20th​
177​
Mar 6th​
197​
Mar 21st​
233​
Mar 7th​
233​
Mar 22nd​
281​
Mar 8th​
366​
Mar 23rd​
335​
Mar 9th​
463​
Mar 24th​
422​
Mar 10th​
631​
Mar 25th​
468​
Mar 11th​
827​
Mar 26th​
578​
Mar 12th​
1,016​
Mar 27th​
759​
Mar 13th​
1,266​
Mar 28th​
1,019​
Mar 14th​
1,441​
Mar 29th​
1,228​
Mar 15th​
1,809​
Mar 30th​
1,408​
Mar 16th​
2,158​
Mar 31st​
1,789​
Mar 17th​
2,503​
Apr 1st​
2,352​
Mar 18th​
2,978​
Apr 2nd​
2,921​
Mar 19th​
3,405​
Apr 3rd​
3,605​
Mar 20th​
4,032​
Apr 4th​
4,313​
Mar 21st​
4,825​
Apr 5th​
4,934​
Mar 22nd​
5,475​
Apr 6th​
5,373​
Mar 23rd​
6,077​
Apr 7th​
6,159​
Mar 24th​
6,820​
Apr 8th​
7,097​
Mar 25th​
7,503​
Apr 9th​
7,978​
Mar 26th​
8,215​
Apr 10th​
8,958​
Mar 27th​
9,134​
Apr 11th​
9,875​
Mar 28th​
10,023​
Apr 12th​
10,612​
Mar 29th​
10,779​
Apr 13th​
11,329​
Mar 30th​
11,591​
Apr 14th​
12,107​
Mar 31st​
12,428​
Apr 15th​
12,868​
Apr 1st​
13,155​
Apr 16th​
13,729​
Apr 2nd​
13,915​
Apr 17th​
14,576​
Apr 3rd​
14,681​
Apr 18th​
15,464​
Apr 4th​
15,362​
Apr 19th​
Apr 5th​
15,887​
Apr 20th​
Apr 6th​
16,523​
Apr 21st​
Apr 7th​
17,127​
Apr 8th​
17,669​
Apr 9th​
18,279​
Officially unofficially broke past Italy without much fuss and a two week heads up.
Wow. Came from behind there.
 

redshaw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
4,975
From BBC

Fears 7,500 residents have died in UK care homes

"The number of coronavirus victims in Britain's care homes could be as high as 7,500, five times more than the official estimate, the sector's main charity has warned.

"Without testing, it is very difficult to give an absolute figure," Martin Green, chief executive of Care England, told The Daily Telegraph.

"However, if we look at some of the death rates since April 1 and compare them with previous years' rates, we estimate a figure of about 7,500 people may have died as a result of Covid-19."

The figure is more than five times higher than the estimate of 1,400 suggested by the government earlier this week.

Britain's official coronavirus toll currently stands at 14,576, although that only includes deaths recorded in hospitals.£


Looks like the tentative theory of most care home people ending up in the hospital rather than dying at the care home with low figures even up until late March is out the window with the increase in April. France have 7200 care home deaths so far and Barcelona I read recently have 3500 care home deaths to release.
 

Simbo

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
2,585

United Kingdom
Dates​
UK
Deaths​
Italy Dates​
Italy Deaths​
Mar 8th​
3​
Feb-23rd​
3​
Mar 9th​
5​
Feb 24th​
7​
Mar 10th​
6​
Feb 25th​
11​
Mar 11th​
8​
Feb 26th​
12​
Mar 12th​
10​
Feb 27th​
17​
Mar 13th​
11​
Feb 28th​
21​
Mar 14th​
21​
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29​
Mar 15th​
35​
Mar 1st​
41​
Mar 16th​
55​
Mar 2nd​
52​
Mar 17th​
71​
Mar 3rd​
79​
Mar 18th​
104​
Mar 4th​
107​
Mar 19th​
144​
Mar 5th​
148​
Mar 20th​
177​
Mar 6th​
197​
Mar 21st​
233​
Mar 7th​
233​
Mar 22nd​
281​
Mar 8th​
366​
Mar 23rd​
335​
Mar 9th​
463​
Mar 24th​
422​
Mar 10th​
631​
Mar 25th​
468​
Mar 11th​
827​
Mar 26th​
578​
Mar 12th​
1,016​
Mar 27th​
759​
Mar 13th​
1,266​
Mar 28th​
1,019​
Mar 14th​
1,441​
Mar 29th​
1,228​
Mar 15th​
1,809​
Mar 30th​
1,408​
Mar 16th​
2,158​
Mar 31st​
1,789​
Mar 17th​
2,503​
Apr 1st​
2,352​
Mar 18th​
2,978​
Apr 2nd​
2,921​
Mar 19th​
3,405​
Apr 3rd​
3,605​
Mar 20th​
4,032​
Apr 4th​
4,313​
Mar 21st​
4,825​
Apr 5th​
4,934​
Mar 22nd​
5,475​
Apr 6th​
5,373​
Mar 23rd​
6,077​
Apr 7th​
6,159​
Mar 24th​
6,820​
Apr 8th​
7,097​
Mar 25th​
7,503​
Apr 9th​
7,978​
Mar 26th​
8,215​
Apr 10th​
8,958​
Mar 27th​
9,134​
Apr 11th​
9,875​
Mar 28th​
10,023​
Apr 12th​
10,612​
Mar 29th​
10,779​
Apr 13th​
11,329​
Mar 30th​
11,591​
Apr 14th​
12,107​
Mar 31st​
12,428​
Apr 15th​
12,868​
Apr 1st​
13,155​
Apr 16th​
13,729​
Apr 2nd​
13,915​
Apr 17th​
14,576​
Apr 3rd​
14,681​
Apr 18th​
15,464​
Apr 4th​
15,362​
Apr 19th​
Apr 5th​
15,887​
Apr 20th​
Apr 6th​
16,523​
Apr 21st​
Apr 7th​
17,127​
Apr 8th​
17,669​
Apr 9th​
18,279​
Officially unofficially broke past Italy without much fuss and a two week heads up.
Are we reporting by the same rule-set Italy are?
 

Leroy The Red

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Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
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London
All of that can be said of almost all other countries though. I live between Italy and Switzerland currently, pretty much all of what you say above is true here. France can't get tests sorted out, Spain we know is in a mess, even Japan is now running into trouble, and the less said about the US the better. You are talking about some of the most developed nations in the world there. The way people talk in this thread you would think the UK is a total disaster and the virus is just a blip to everybody else. The reality is the UK is handling it about as well as everybody else - the virus took the whole world by surprise.




None of that is because of the budget though, it's because the management keep wasting the money they do get on overpriced agency nurses, ridiculous procurement processes and ill-advised projects. That's been the point all along. The money is there but we are terrible at spending it.

Compared to all of our peer countries the government spends roughly similar, that's really not debatable (especially if you forget private add ons and co pays, which the UK has very little of). We don't stand out for overspending or underspending in any way. Again, like above, the whole point I am making is that if you listened to this thread you'd think the UK was being forced to work on a shoestring, and it's just not true.

Even if we did increase the budget, above 2500 spend per capita (we are around 3,000) there is little evidence that increases have any effect on health outcomes. 2 of the 4 'healthiest' countries spend less than us, and 2 of the 4 top spenders have worse health outcomes than us. If anything, looking at those figures it might suggest a reversal over a certain point as bloat sets in.


edit: anyway, this is all too much politics now. This will be my last post on it.
I know you said this was your last post on it. And I agree the political debate is too much. And I say this NOT as a tribalist labour voter who can’t see the forest for the trees.
But I think with the spending, whilst it looks fine from a comparison stand point you have to factor in a simple point.
Plain and simply put we need a bigger budget because we’re simply worse at being healthy than everyone else in our league.
When you factor in obesity, alcohol and drug abuse (this also accounts for fund drainage) we’re constantly amongst the worse in Europe. We also appear to be worse at spending money than everyone else.
We’re basically the Man United of the Health service world.
 

dwd

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From BBC

Fears 7,500 residents have died in UK care homes

"The number of coronavirus victims in Britain's care homes could be as high as 7,500, five times more than the official estimate, the sector's main charity has warned.

"Without testing, it is very difficult to give an absolute figure," Martin Green, chief executive of Care England, told The Daily Telegraph.

"However, if we look at some of the death rates since April 1 and compare them with previous years' rates, we estimate a figure of about 7,500 people may have died as a result of Covid-19."

The figure is more than five times higher than the estimate of 1,400 suggested by the government earlier this week.

Britain's official coronavirus toll currently stands at 14,576, although that only includes deaths recorded in hospitals.£


Looks like the tentative theory of most care home people ending up in the hospital rather than dying at the care home with low figures even up until late March is out the window with the increase in April. France have 7200 care home deaths so far and Barcelona I read recently have 3500 care home deaths to release.
The care home of my father in law have told us that if any resident gets it they won't be taken to hospital as the hospital will just send them straight back. I think this is the case for all care homes across the country as well.
 

golden_blunder

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Ekkie Thump

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From BBC

Fears 7,500 residents have died in UK care homes

"The number of coronavirus victims in Britain's care homes could be as high as 7,500, five times more than the official estimate, the sector's main charity has warned.

"Without testing, it is very difficult to give an absolute figure," Martin Green, chief executive of Care England, told The Daily Telegraph.

"However, if we look at some of the death rates since April 1 and compare them with previous years' rates, we estimate a figure of about 7,500 people may have died as a result of Covid-19."

The figure is more than five times higher than the estimate of 1,400 suggested by the government earlier this week.

Britain's official coronavirus toll currently stands at 14,576, although that only includes deaths recorded in hospitals.£


Looks like the tentative theory of most care home people ending up in the hospital rather than dying at the care home with low figures even up until late March is out the window with the increase in April. France have 7200 care home deaths so far and Barcelona I read recently have 3500 care home deaths to release.
Yeah, as soon as the ONS reported a year on year increase of 6k deaths for the week ending 3rd April it became clear there's a vast undercount in UK figures. Only 3.5k of those were officially connected to Covid-19. Figures for up to the 10th come out next Tuesday and they'll certainly show the same trend.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Messages
11,353
It's great news.

I was getting a bit worried the daily deaths were continuing to rise even though they were telling us that the transmission rate was <=1.

Glad he's released the graph comparing the figures based on the actual date the deaths occured (red bar) to those we've seen to date (line) which were based on when they were notified of them.

It's gives a totally different picture.

Looks like we're over the peak now.
 

redshaw

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Ireland could stage England's premier league end and have fans in the stands watching at this rate.
 

sammsky1

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Copied from facebook:

All Shopping centres in Hamburg (and around in Germany) will open again from Monday .
There are strict regulations to be followed in each Store and in mall-hallways , so yes it is the same safe as in any other location you have been, last 6 weeks.
Due to strict regulations - some locations in the malls will first open during next week, not on Monday.
 

Adisa

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The care home of my father in law have told us that if any resident gets it they won't be taken to hospital as the hospital will just send them straight back. I think this is the case for all care homes across the country as well.
Wtf? Why?
 

antsmithmk

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Updated graph of deaths in England by day of death. Reported deaths grew by 46 to 784. Certainly seems like we've at least reached a plateau.

Orange is a 5 day trailing average, hopefully it remains above the daily death line.
Last 5-7 days will see large to moderate upward changes:
What is series 1 in this graph?
 

antsmithmk

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Messages
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Number of deaths by day of death (as opposed to day of reporting).
Thank You.

would it be fair to say that because of a delay in reporting some deaths, series 1 could be revised upwards at any point for the last couple of weeks?
 

Pogue Mahone

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You're right about the T-cells, they store memory of the virus when they engulf the virus, its structure and the RNA inside it. Plus, since a large percentage of cases are mild and even asymptomatic, this would mean a reduced production of antibodies, maybe even negligible enough to not show on a test.


Interesting.
 

Ekkie Thump

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Messages
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Thank You.

would it be fair to say that because of a delay in reporting some deaths, series 1 could be revised upwards at any point for the last couple of weeks?
Yeah, absolutely. Especially the last 5 - 7 days. The distribution of reported deaths trails off the further back in time you go. Usually the biggest (3 digit) boosts are from 2 - 3 days ago. Then you get mid 2 figure boosts for the next 3-4 days, then it goes into the teens for a couple more, then random single digit bumps.

The big drop off at the end of the graph should be discounted. The way things've been going though it does seem that recent figures will remain below that of the 8th of April and at least in the short term continue to (very slowly) fall going forward.

Edit: @lynchie posted a useful graph for seeing how each day's reported deaths are distributed going back into the past:


 
Last edited:

Sarni

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It's absolutely horrifying what is going on in America right now. With the way they are handling it and the way the right wing media is conditioning the public to think it's some sort of hoax, it's really don't difficult to imagine the mortality rate is going to be into the millions. The worst of it is that the country is so partisan right now that, despite their being clearly one side trying to save lives and the other sacrificing lives to save the economy ("their own wealth" is more apt), the right wing media machine is so fecking powerful that no matter how bad it gets, blame and anger will always be directed in one direction. The worst thing about that is that anger and the appetite for blame is going to be absolutely fierce.

I think the civil unrest caused by the criminal handling of this crisis at federal level and the hatred and blame being dished out could end up costing as many lives as the virus itself.
And even if it goes into millions morons will still say it’s a hoax because ‘those people would have died anyway’ and ‘it’s just another flu’ not to mention the good old ‘do you know anyone who died?’
 

DatIrishFella

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It's absolutely horrifying what is going on in America right now. With the way they are handling it and the way the right wing media is conditioning the public to think it's some sort of hoax, it's really don't difficult to imagine the mortality rate is going to be into the millions. The worst of it is that the country is so partisan right now that, despite their being clearly one side trying to save lives and the other sacrificing lives to save the economy ("their own wealth" is more apt), the right wing media machine is so fecking powerful that no matter how bad it gets, blame and anger will always be directed in one direction. The worst thing about that is that anger and the appetite for blame is going to be absolutely fierce.

I think the civil unrest caused by the criminal handling of this crisis at federal level and the hatred and blame being dished out could end up costing as many lives as the virus itself.
America is fecked, no doubts.

I voted Sinn Feinn, Greens, PBP etc in the most recent elections but I can see Leo and his team are doing a fantastic job during this pandemic.

It may not change my voting preference in the future, but hats off to the administration.

The loyalty to dems/gop is awful. Doesnt help when the yanks finally get someone (Bernie) who wants actual change yet they go for Biden.

Dems are just as bad as GOP.
 

groovyalbert

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United Kingdom
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Officially unofficially broke past Italy without much fuss and a two week heads up.
I feel that the UK moved too late in initial areas (London) and too fast to lockdown others meaning that we're now seeing the worst of both scenarios - too late to act in the most populous part of the country, and people feeling the drain of lockdown in other parts of the country at a time when they need to be following it the most.

From the numbers that the UK is posting still after 4 weeks of lockdown, I just don't see enough evidence to point to real success - other than ICU's not being "technically" overrun, in theory, due to new units being opened fast.

In my gut I just don't feel we have the cultural habits or expectations to deal with this effectively. I reckon the government is just waiting for people to get bored of lockdown before softening restrictions rather than expecting any genuine breakthrough/decrease in number of cases/fatalities. They're essentially willing to drops the hearts from a hearts and minds campaign.
 

4bars

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Cardboard elk

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FFS. Sure this is punishable by law?
Yeah, should think so. Seeing you are from Barcelona, I remember the same somewhere in Spain in late march (?), I remember there was to be an investigation and those responsible was going to be punished. I think the canadians are also investigating the one I posted. Should be a very long sentence imo. Neglect of duty with fatal consequences.

Edit : thinking about this, when shit like this happens in Europe and Canada, what will happen in the poor countries. We will propably not even hear about it in the news from many places around the globe.
 

Pexbo

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Horrible news from canada. All but two caregivers left the nursing home for 130 elders, while the relatives were told to avoid visits due to Covid-19. Several dead and people left for themselves in excrements and without food for days.. :( How is this possible. I hope there will be severe punishment for those responsible.

https://www.barrons.com/news/horrors-revealed-at-virus-hit-canada-nursing-home-01587174605
This happened in Italy too at a number of places didn’t it?
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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FFS. Sure this is punishable by law?
In Canada, as in other like minded affluent countries I'm sure, a person's right to refuse dangerous work as long as they have reasonable cause to believe that it presents a danger to themselves is protected by law, so these personal support workers (PSWs) won't be punished, nor should they be.

This situation is very much the fault of the governments involved and the care home industry. PSWs are low paid and often work at more than one care home, which has contributed to thes spread of the virus in these environments. There''ll be and official "inquiry" but everyone will come out smelling like roses.
 

Pexbo

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As sources said a while back, it looks like the UK will end up with the most deaths of any country in Europe.
By design. The government admitted it early on, there needs to be an inquiry when this is over.
 

massi83

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Yes, quite positive. There has been plenty of criticism of the study also though. https://medium.com/@balajis/peer-re...in-santa-clara-county-california-1f6382258c25

I would wait for the results from Gangelt, Germany, to be published. Almost a whole population study is better, than the biases in a facebook-targeted study group. Also the lower limit of 0.12% isn't really possible, as Lombardy (not to mention Bergamo) and NYC already have more deaths.
 

Cardboard elk

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In Canada, as in other like minded affluent countries I'm sure, a person's right to refuse dangerous work as long as they have reasonable cause to believe that it presents a danger to themselves is protected by law, so these personal support workers (PSWs) won't be punished, nor should they be.

This situation is very much the fault of the governments involved and the care home industry. PSWs are low paid and often work at more than one care home, which has contributed to thes spread of the virus in these environments. There''ll be and official "inquiry" but everyone will come out smelling like roses.
Maybe not the workers fault, no. But we do not know that so thats to early to say. You can not just leave people that can not help themselves in their beds, not ask for help or tell anyone about it, not answer the relatives calls and just hide them until they die of thirst and lack of nutrition or disease. I do not know the particulars, but obviously someone with responsibilities has violated laws and must be held responsible. It needn't be the PSWs, it can be management or government of course. Refusing to work due to lack of PPE, I can understand. That means you tell your boss. And he tells the authorities he has no workers. And if no workers can be found, next of kin is told and can help. Avoiding telling authorities and next of kin while people die? Not acceptable. Also, it means feck what pay people have regarding this imo.