SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness or memes please)

One Night Only

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Time for school children to be guinea pigs.
What about those who have been forced to work as key workers? And the kids of those said workers? They've already been the guinea pigs.

Already said you don't have to send kids back if you don't want to. Not exactly everyone going back to work, retail and hospitality is a huge portion of jobs, so still likely a lot of staff furloughed and working from home.
 

jojojo

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Have people in the UK not been allowed to see anyone at all through this lockdown?

Here in Denmark we've always been allowed to see people outside with 2 metres between and taking the necessary precautions like not touching the same stuff etc. When my partner and I were quarantining in a summer house our respective families would visit us in the garden and bringing their own tea and coffee etc.
In principle, gardens as meeting places for different households were still against the rules until today. In England we've been in an odd phase where an individual was allowed to meet one vother person but only at a 2m distance and in a public place (like a park).

In practice, I think some people were meeting family for short periods in the garden, or on a driveway or similar for a while now.

Once the "meet one person in the park" idea came out, a lot of the rules got more loosely interpreted - bigger groups meeting up for a chat or a sunbathe. The 1+1+1+1+ etc daisy chain effect. I think increasingly the "only meet in a public place, not in your garden" bit of guidance irritated people, and I suspect people were starting to ignore that rule as well now.

The latest "6 people outdoors" might work better. At least they might be able to explain this one, rather than trying to justify why you could meet a stranger in the park but not your mum in her garden.
 

JPRouve

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Bars, restaurants and museums are reopening in France on June 2nd. EU borders are reopened. The 100km limit is lifted. Orly is reopening too.
 

Irwin99

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370 deaths today. How is the UK doing on a daily basis compared to France, Italy and Germany? Not in terms of overall but daily right now.
 

JPRouve

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370 deaths today. How is the UK doing on a daily basis compared to France, Italy and Germany? Not in terms of overall but daily right now.
In France we have been under 90 daily deaths for more than a week.
 

van der star

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Lombardy accounted for almost 65% of all new cases in Italy yesterday, and yet the mayor of Lombardy wants to lift travel restrictions from 3rd June. A couple more weeks of lockdown is probably what's needed.
 

Arruda

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What part of it is stupid opinions? Did you see the body of work from the panel? Nobel prize winners - lots of well qualified individuals in that panel.

The panel consisted of well qualified, brilliant individuals who have accomplished a lot in science. What part of what they said is bullshit?
These are arguments of authority, which is one of the biggest fallacies in philosophy/science. What matters is what they are saying, not who they are. Does any of those arguments sound like science to you? It's pub-level opinions, at least the parts that were selected for the video. I'd decompose each of them, but they are really not worth my time.

Has any of them even gained a Nobel prize in areas related to this? In case you don't know, Nobel prizes in science are given for very specific research and are not a general brightness pass. And quite often the winner isn't even the best mind on it, just the leader of the team.

The most reputed microbiologist in France has repeatedly embarassed himself over this, as has the most reputed Public Health expert in Portugal. In Covid what it matters is what you know, what you've studied about it, and your biases. Not your curriculum. So even if they are from these areas it's not a guarantee of reasonability, let alone being a random Nobel prize winner.
 

Sarni

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Lombardy accounted for almost 65% of all new cases in Italy yesterday, and yet the mayor of Lombardy wants to lift travel restrictions from 3rd June. A couple more weeks of lockdown is probably what's needed.
I don’t think couple of weeks would make such a huge difference. This could go on forever. I really don’t get how these infections work though, seems crazy that they won’t go up with everyone leaving home going around meeting people.
 

JPRouve

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These are arguments of authority, which is one of the biggest fallacies in philosophy/science. What matters is what they are saying, not who they are. Does any of those arguments sound like science to you? It's pub-level opinions, at least the parts that were selected for the video. I'd decompose each of them, but they are really not worth my time.

Has any of them even gained a Nobel prize in areas related to this? In case you don't know, Nobel prizes in science are given for very specific research and are not a general brightness pass. And quite often the winner isn't even the best mind on it, just the leader of the team.

The most reputed microbiologist in France has repeatedly embarassed himself over this, as has the most reputed Public Health expert in Portugal. In Covid what it matters is what you know, what you've studied about it, and your biases. Not your curriculum. So even if they are from these areas it's not a guarantee of reasonability, let alone being a random Nobel prize winner.
You are being kind here, he used to be reputed but he is a bit of a joke in scientific circles who publically called him out in the past, he talks nonsense at every opportunity.
 

Arruda

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You are being kind here, he used to be reputed but he is a bit of a joke in scientific circles who publically called him out in the past, he talks nonsense at every opportunity.
I have a friend who worked closely with him, he's the lead Covid guy in one of the best infectious diseases hospitals in our country. During his formation he spent 6 months studying microbiology in Marseille. Says he's got the merit of building the best microbiology lab in Europe, but is an idiot who literally calls himself God.
 

Penna

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Lombardy accounted for almost 65% of all new cases in Italy yesterday, and yet the mayor of Lombardy wants to lift travel restrictions from 3rd June. A couple more weeks of lockdown is probably what's needed.
I don't think the travel restrictions will now be lifted completely from 3 June, which is a shame as we booked a trip down to Lecce!

I've read some comments from officials that if you're in a low-risk region bordering another of similar risk, you'll be able to travel between the two, but there should be no way someone from Lombardy should be able to go to Basilicata, for instance.
 

JPRouve

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I have a friend who worked closely with him, he's the lead Covid guy in one of the best infectious diseases hospitals in our country. During his formation he spent 6 months studying microbiology in Marseille. Says he's got the merit of building the best microbiology lab in Europe, but is an idiot who literally calls himself God.
You meant Raoult, I thought that you were talking about Montagnier. Raoult isn't the most reputed, he is a lunatic and everyone with a brain knows it, he is a narcissist and will say anything that bring some light in his direction.
 

Arruda

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You meant Raoult, I thought that you were talking about Montagnier. Raoult isn't the most reputed, he is a lunatic and everyone with a brain knows it, he is a narcissist and will say anything that bring some light in his direction.
Yeah, I meant Raoult. Maybe I should have said his lab is/was the most reputed. Or maybe something specific to tropical diseases, which I think it's what the fuss was all about. My friend was there a long time ago, I just remember it vaguely, but the guy wasn't an unknown to me until the pandemic.

The problem with these guys is that they never go away. At least here in Portugal they stick around until they're 70 and (when public servants) are forced to retire. Sometimes they lead huge institutions their entire lives because they are very good at some specific thing, or because they have made something brilliant 30 years ago. Invariably, working for/with them is horrendous.
 

Dan_F

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So why has Johnson announced the relaxation four days before it comes into place. The whole way through they’ve delayed making announcements until the night before, with the reasoning being that people won’t stick to the rules. Now with a hot weekend coming, they’ve announced this. I’m sorry, but I don’t see how anyone can say this anything but a distraction from the Cummings story. They didn’t even give businesses any warning of going back to work a few weeks ago, and now it’s safe to tell the public this in advance.

The lockdown is basically over, if it wasn’t already before. Social distancing wasn’t policeable in parks already, there’s no way people are going to stick to rules in gardens.

350+ deaths a day seems like a really high number to be relaxing things this much.
 

JPRouve

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Yeah, I meant Raoult. Maybe I should have said his lab is/was the most reputed.

The problem with these guys is that they never go away. At least here in Portugal they stick around until they're 70 and (when public servants) are forced to retire. Sometimes they lead huge institutions their entire lives because they are very good at some specific thing, or because they have made something brilliant 30 years ago. Invariably, working for/with them is horrendous.
I'm going to be a pedant again but it's not the most reputed either, Pasteur Institut is.
 

Arruda

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I'm going to be a pedant again but it's not the most reputed either, Pasteur Institut is.
Yeah, thanks, I guess there was an element of my friend bigging the institution up as well. He was into tropical disesases though, which I think it's what they are more specifically known for, and edited my above post accordingly.
 

Buster15

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The UK has had about 800 covid deaths announced in the last 2 days.
That is still very high.
Compare that with the rest of Europe where most are in significantly lower.

I would like to see the lockdown restrictions eased as much as anyone.
But I hope it is being done for the right reasons.
And not maybe a distraction...
 

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Valance' tone and repeated message of caution really struck me today.

The R rate is JUST about acceptable....at what point do local lockdowns kick in? Is it at 1.1? And how long would it take them to get that data?

The new cases per week is still huge, be interesting to know how many of them are in the community, vs hospital and care home transmission

The death rate is still high...if its above 250 for tomorrow then, imo, the new measures should not have come in yet.

I understand that we have had a long lockdown and the general public are fed up, but lockdown has been practically over for the past week at least, and in saving Cummings the Government/Senior MPs/Boris have no credibility or influence now. People were struck by the deaths in the 6/7/8/900s, now, 2/300 its of no impact to the majority, and we forget that Covid-19 can make anyone of us seriously ill or worse. You are not immune if you are under 65.

I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised that the retail opening/secondary schools gets delayed due to an upwards spike....but will people listen to distancing/lockdown rules being imposed again at that point?
 

Arruda

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Here in Portugal we also started easing restrictions with an R very close to 1.

There's talk of delaying some of them in the Lisbon area though, where 90% of the new cases are being diagnosed. Porto area, which was the hotspot for a long time had only 4 new cases in the last day or so, I think.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Valance' tone and repeated message of caution really struck me today.

The R rate is JUST about acceptable....at what point do local lockdowns kick in? Is it at 1.1? And how long would it take them to get that data?

The new cases per week is still huge, be interesting to know how many of them are in the community, vs hospital and care home transmission

The death rate is still high...if its above 250 for tomorrow then, imo, the new measures should not have come in yet.

I understand that we have had a long lockdown and the general public are fed up, but lockdown has been practically over for the past week at least, and in saving Cummings the Government/Senior MPs/Boris have no credibility or influence now. People were struck by the deaths in the 6/7/8/900s, now, 2/300 its of no impact to the majority, and we forget that Covid-19 can make anyone of us seriously ill or worse. You are not immune if you are under 65.

I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised that the retail opening/secondary schools gets delayed due to an upwards spike....but will people listen to distancing/lockdown rules being imposed again at that point?
I've always felt that if we needed to lockdown again it would be a much stricter one because we really can't afford risking a third, morally and financially. Cummings and Boris have now fecked any chance of the general public accepting a stricter one, and probably wont even accept anything that remotely resembles any kind of lockdown whatsoever, so it would definitely need to be tougher otherwise it's pointless.

It's a mess and because Johnson can't just sack the guy and is trying to weasel his way out of it like he always does it's going to cause ripples. We need a leader and we've got a boys club.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I've always felt that if we needed to lockdown again it would be a much stricter one because we really can't afford risking a third, morally and financially. Cummings and Boris have now fecked any chance of the general public accepting a stricter one, and probably wont even accept anything that remotely resembles any kind of lockdown whatsoever, so it would definitely need to be tougher otherwise it's pointless.

It's a mess and because Johnson can't just sack the guy and is trying to weasel his way out of it like he always does it's going to cause ripples. We need a leader and we've got a boys club.
The craziest thing about rushing out of lockdown for the sake of the economy is the catastrophic effects of another one. Think about all the pubs, restaurants, hotels etc hanging in there, desperately trying to stay afloat until they can start to trade again. I’m sure they’d all rather stay with the current situation for another week or two if that helped avoid being back to square one in a month’s time. It’s the second lockdown that will finish those businesses off completely.
 

JMack1234

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Valance' tone and repeated message of caution really struck me today.

The R rate is JUST about acceptable....at what point do local lockdowns kick in? Is it at 1.1? And how long would it take them to get that data?

The new cases per week is still huge, be interesting to know how many of them are in the community, vs hospital and care home transmission

The death rate is still high...if its above 250 for tomorrow then, imo, the new measures should not have come in yet.

I understand that we have had a long lockdown and the general public are fed up, but lockdown has been practically over for the past week at least, and in saving Cummings the Government/Senior MPs/Boris have no credibility or influence now. People were struck by the deaths in the 6/7/8/900s, now, 2/300 its of no impact to the majority, and we forget that Covid-19 can make anyone of us seriously ill or worse. You are not immune if you are under 65.

I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised that the retail opening/secondary schools gets delayed due to an upwards spike....but will people listen to distancing/lockdown rules being imposed again at that point?
Indeed you're not, however, even the most cursory look at the stats reveals that your risk from COVID reduces dramatically the younger you are. So it makes absolutely no sense to keep the young and health quarantined indefinitely.
 

JMack1234

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Glad about the gatherings. Bit concerned about next week of the weather turns to shit. People gathering in houses is certainly far more worrying than dodgy beach pictures.
It's all on the Track and Trace now.

There's a limit for how long you can micro-manage human behaviour. In my experience this new relaxation is just catching up with the public. The parks near me are full of groups socialising, having fun and enjoying this glorious weather and I'd be amazed if they all live together.
 

Wolverine

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Valance' tone and repeated message of caution really struck me today.

The R rate is JUST about acceptable....at what point do local lockdowns kick in? Is it at 1.1? And how long would it take them to get that data?

The new cases per week is still huge, be interesting to know how many of them are in the community, vs hospital and care home transmission

The death rate is still high...if its above 250 for tomorrow then, imo, the new measures should not have come in yet.

I understand that we have had a long lockdown and the general public are fed up, but lockdown has been practically over for the past week at least, and in saving Cummings the Government/Senior MPs/Boris have no credibility or influence now. People were struck by the deaths in the 6/7/8/900s, now, 2/300 its of no impact to the majority, and we forget that Covid-19 can make anyone of us seriously ill or worse. You are not immune if you are under 65.

I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised that the retail opening/secondary schools gets delayed due to an upwards spike....but will people listen to distancing/lockdown rules being imposed again at that point?
Death rate is high true. But new cases is something I think we should all keep an eye on. What's been frustrating in the last week is the lack of available figure of the number of people tested because from that with a steady lowish number of new cases and increased number of people tested you get a better sense of R0.