SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You think the very people who couldn't stop this before it started will stop it after?

I'm no expert. That said, I've mastered in pharmaceuticals with biochem as an undergrad. That said, I don't claim to know better than anyone. What I do claim is that there is actual evidence showing the benefits of lockdowns and social distancing. There is NO evidence that the strategy proposed by your beloved government will work.

Like I said earlier, where were these scientific models months ago? If they're so brilliant at saving lives, why are we losing so many?

Where are we not losing lives? We've lost 35 in the UK so far. 3 in Sweden.

The UK isn't against social distancing, the have confirmed again and again that this is coming. But the UK model is showing that the virus is so widespread now that closing schools etc now will have a worse effect. Why is that so hard to accept? If there model is saying that, how does anyone know they are so wrong who isn't an expert themselves?

Once again, it's based on sound science. And if you have zero knowledge, as a pharmaceuticals masters grad, then why do you think you know better?

 

[Carolina Red]

South Carolina has finally made the decision to close schools for the next 2 weeks.

That being said, this was sent out to the Superintendents Association...

Says the CDC is updating its recommendations because they’re finding that “short to medium closures do not have the necessary effect... longer closures of 8-20 weeks will have a greater impact”

 

[Starkie_1]

Guess your vacation in japan is fecking canceled eh?
Like you said you don't listen to advice on football forum then stop giving your advice, we don't want to hear it either.

Haha nope. Not yet. No idea if it will or it won’t.

My advice has gone as far as saying I’m doing what I’m being told to do. But then again as with most things in this country, people don’t like what they’ve been told to do and will moan anyway.

 

[0le]

Where are we not losing lives? We've lost 35 in the UK so far. 3 in Sweden.

The UK isn't against social distancing, the have confirmed again and again that this is coming. But the UK model is showing that the virus is so widespread now that closing schools etc now will have a worse effect. Why is that so hard to accept? If there model is saying that, how does anyone know they are so wrong who isn't an expert themselves?

Once again, it's based on sound science. And if you have zero knowledge, as a pharmaceuticals masters grad, then why do you think you know better?

Regarding who you quoted, there is no point debating with someone who calls the lead scientist(s) twats.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe we trust scientists too? All 400+ of them.

http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia/UK_scientists_statement_on_coronavirus_measures.pdf

There is always disagreement in science. If another plan had been produced, another group of scientists would have disagreed. The only time you get agreement in science is after a long period of time for something which is very well understood after years (perhaps decades) of research.

What 0le said.

 

[Drawfull]

I’m not sure it’s possible to be personally offended on an internet forum and if you are I think it suggests you need time away from it. All the same I appreciate the apology and offer you mine for coming across the way you’ve interpreted.

The wealthy area comment was meant to be just that, about the area. As with those I was having lunch with (not getting pissed up for the sake of it, a lunch). It was as a reply to someone who claimed I was a killer.

I feel for you regarding your parents, I honestly do. And I hope that doesn’t happen.

Cheers. I do care what people think about what I post on internet forums though, because aside from when I am plastered, it's an extension of me. Thanks for the considered reply, and good luck for the coming days and weeks.

 

[Kinsella]

Ireland reporting 40 new cases today so up too 169.

I'll be shocked if the number of cases up North doesn't go up quite significantly very soon.

 

[The Firestarter]

Right now people here are hand clapping out of their balconies to support the medics that will be on the front line of this fight.

 

[redshaw]

BBC: Bath half marathon goes ahead despite Coronavirus fears



Full BBC story here.

FFS

Corona mass ejection detected in Bath

 

[Revan]

How many people in China died again? 3,199 right @4bars?

UK is currently on 35.

Common sense indeed.

Wuhan started lockdown at 400 cases. Italy at a few thousands. UK has still to do it.

Italy, for example, would need to do a stellar job to stop the number of dead people to only a few tens of thousands of people. It is how this works, if you act a day sooner, you can potentially save tens of thousands of lives long term.

 

[Drawfull]

4,5 and 6 are very good.

My initial post is inaccurate, I've seen Rogue Nation and Fallout prior to starting. I liked both. Fallout was great.

 

[Starkie_1]

Listen right, Starkie_1 has affluent and like minded friends who are taking the right precautions like hanging around together. They don't know any old people and there is no way they could pass it on to people who end up passing it on to others. How could they, they are like minded and affluent?!

Join the fun why don’t you. Yeah don’t worry about my grandparents, staff I work with daily, the clients I treat at my clinic. Yeah just make assumption. Not worth the infraction points calling you out for what you are but it’s obvious.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Wuhan started lockdown at 400 cases. Italy at a few thousands. UK has still to do it.

Italy, for example, would need to do a stellar job to stop the number of dead people to only a few tens of thousands of people. It is how this works, if you act a day sooner, you can potentially save tens of thousands of lives long term.

Italy and China aren't the UK though, the UK doesn't have the older population Italy does nor do many old people live with families.

The UK will shutdown when it is the right time for them according to their model.

It's sound science, but every fecker on the internet knows better of course.

 

[Amar__]

Open letter from over 300 scientists in the UK, criticising the UK strategy and appealing for more urgency in the measures taken.

http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia/UK_scientists_statement_on_coronavirus_measures.pdf

No, you are wrong. What entire world did was political decision, but only UK did the right thing.

 

[JPRouve]

This thread will be gold by the time we’re all locked down. People losing their minds already and we’re not even out of the starting blocks

I was tempted to ask that question a few days ago when basically all sports league stopped. We are going to go absolutely mental, we don't have our sport fix and are still roaming the forum trying to interact with each others.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Where are we not losing lives? We've lost 35 in the UK so far. 3 in Sweden.

The UK isn't against social distancing, the have confirmed again and again that this is coming. But the UK model is showing that the virus is so widespread now that closing schools etc now will have a worse effect. Why is that so hard to accept? If there model is saying that, how does anyone know they are so wrong who isn't an expert themselves?

Once again, it's based on sound science. And if you have zero knowledge, as a pharmaceuticals masters grad, then why do you think you know better?

I literally just answered that question. Actual, factual evidence that this can be controlled with more stringent measures.

 

[Starkie_1]

Italy and China aren't the UK though, the UK doesn't have the older population Italy does nor do many old people live with families.

The UK will shutdown when it is the right time for them according to their model.

It's sound science, but every fecker on the internet knows better of course.

Feel like me and you down the pub getting on would be the end of the world mate. Spot on

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Wind your neck in pal.

People are free to disagree with you.

They're also free to critique Government policy - and people will critique controversial, Life or Death Government Policy.

Solid Science welcomes critique (it's crucial in fact).

Absolutely. But from other scientists and based on scientific evidence.

Not Rhyme or REG from tinternet. That's the point.

 

[horsechoker]

Wuhan started lockdown at 400 cases. Italy at a few thousands. UK has still to do it.

Italy, for example, would need to do a stellar job to stop the number of dead people to only a few tens of thousands of people. It is how this works, if you act a day sooner, you can potentially save tens of thousands of lives long term.

The lockdown in China is far more extreme, you can't even access different floors other than your own in China. It's still possible to congregate in Italy just not in a bar or in another city unless the police let you travel.

 

[Kaush949]

Instead of full lockdown wouldn't it be better to invest 'safe haven' for senior citizens (60+) to ensure no interaction with rest of population?

If the government is able to isolate seniors (by renting hotels???) and invest in providing food and care supplies (room service), this will limit the majority of hospitalizations?

The rest of population (<50) continues life and work as normal. With, 1.3% or lower mortality rate and exposed age group being completely locked down (with care & hospitality of course), the medical capacity can possibly be met AND tax dollars continue to come through business activity to support the senior citizen care program?

Just an idea.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Feel like me and you down the pub getting on would be the end of the world mate. Spot on

See you on the other side

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Absolutely. But from other scientists and based on scientific evidence.

Not Rhyme or REG from tinternet. That's the point.

It's a forum, it welcomes discourse. It doesn't welcome personal abuse.

You know this mate, cmon.

 

[Siorac]

What 0le said.

But then stop talking about 'science' and 'experts' in every single fecking post. People who criticise the UK response do so because they believe scientists and experts. Just not the same scientists and experts that you keep citing.

 

[11101]

No it hasn’t. It’s not calling or asking for that. It will, and in good time it will be expected of everyone. I’ll stick to being an idiot and on the receiving end of the abuse for as long as it takes. It doesn’t make you right.

You can look to Italy if you want to see what the UK will be like in 2 weeks time. Italians had the same attitude but that's all changed now. Why wait until it gets to that when you can already start limiting social contacts now? Do you really need to be told by the government, don't you have any common sense of your own? If everybody did that there would be a few less deaths at the end of all this. Instead of going out to a busy pub in some sort of weird 'i know better than you' protest.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's a forum, it welcomes discourse. It doesn't welcome personal abuse.

You know this mate, cmon.

Rhyme, have you even read the two posts there and seen what a twat he was acting?

It wasn't disagreeing on anything, not even part of the debate, just a poster trying to be a twat and point score.

 

[Fener1907]

This thread will be gold by the time we’re all locked down. People losing their minds already and we’re not even out of the starting blocks

People need to be quarantined for certain periods from the thread.

1 hour if you cough up some bollocks.

1 day if you're too heated and obviously have a fever.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Just learned that COVID-19 causes cannibalism.

Source: RedCafe.

It certainly causes a lot of verbal diarrhoea.

 

[Smores]

There is always disagreement in science. If another plan had been produced, another group of scientists would have disagreed. The only time you get agreement in science is after a long period of time for something which is very well understood after years (perhaps decades) of research.

Which is exactly why there's a path for valid criticism of the current approach rather than defaulting to the expertise of ones countries government advisers. I'd expect other countries to be facing some criticism too.

Without genuine expertise one can only employ common sense and critical analysis of all available sources of information.

 

[Arruda]

This is going to sound batshit crazy, but if one were worried about their elderly relatives - and decided to privately purchase a ventilator for home use should the ICU departments become full, I would presume that they are not something that a layman could safely operate or set up? And furthermore, the CPAP ones from Amazon which are designed for people with sleep Apnea are presumably not not suitable for intubating people with lung failure following Covid-19?

I know this sounds obvious. I'm just curious really.

@Arruda ?

They are extemely complex machines. Most doctors don't even know how to work with one without specific training unless they are anesthesiologists or intensivists

Intubating someone requires training.

 

[Revan]

Italy and China aren't the UK though, the UK doesn't have the older population Italy does nor do many old people live with families.

The UK will shutdown when it is the right time for them according to their model.

It's sound science, but every fecker on the internet knows better of course.

No, it's not. A lot of scientists, even leading ones (many have been posted here yesterday) are saying it is nuts.

It is an exponential function. I know that it is hard for people to understand it, but under no circumstances, it is better to start the containment later than earlier. Show me one single model that shows that.

There are many examples (from the Spanish flu, China now, etc) that show the other way around. If someone is thinking should they start the containment or not, they are already too late.

The containment should have started in January, and now people would have criticized the governments for overreacting, but countless lives would have been saved.

 

[justboy68]

No mate, I'm not worked up, just called you out for acting the twat.

I found the use of phrase under the circumstances slightly funny, that's all. I'm not that bad I promise!

On the UK's approach I have my doubts as a laymen, I think like most based on the science and criticism presented by other scientists, but I'm absolutely hoping that they are right, for the sake of all my family, friends and fellow citizens back home.

 

[zing]

India is doing a terrible job right now. Think we're going to be like Wuhan x10.

 

[UncleBob]

Italy and China aren't the UK though, the UK doesn't have the older population Italy does nor do many old people live with families.

The UK will shutdown when it is the right time for them according to their model.

It's sound science, but every fecker on the internet knows better of course.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

But then stop talking about 'science' and 'experts' in every single fecking post. People who criticise the UK response do so because they believe scientists and experts. Just not the same scientists and experts that you keep citing.

The difference here is that I'm not slagging off any government. Each country is different and each response must be different.

Tonnes in here genuinely thinking they know better when the truth is, no-one will know how successful these responses until much further down the line. What does anger over social media by layman do to help any situation here?

 

[The Firestarter]

I was tempted to ask that question a few days ago when basically all sports league stopped. We are going to go absolutely mental, we don't have our sport fix and are still roaming the forum trying to interact with each others.

Let's just hope there is still internet in the foreseeable future Otherwise we would have to do imaginary conversations.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Instead of full lockdown wouldn't it be better to invest 'safe haven' for senior citizens (60+) to ensure no interaction with rest of population?

If the government is able to isolate seniors (by renting hotels???) and invest in providing food and care supplies (room service), this will limit the majority of hospitalizations?

The rest of population (<50) continues life and work as normal. With, 1.3% or lower mortality rate and exposed age group being completely locked down (with care & hospitality of course), the medical capacity can possibly be met AND tax dollars continue to come through business activity to support the senior citizen care program?

Just an idea.

I don't think that's the worse idea, at all.

But again, this virus doesn't just kill and / or hospitalize the very old - this is something that people need to start becoming a lot less flippant with.

Think how many people have Asthma, Diabetes, Cystic Fibrosis, Heart Conditions, Immune Disorders etc - many people in these look healthy.

These people are being let down here. They need protecting - now. We're at the point where days and hours matter.

And in protecting them we're also protecting the NHS (or whatever Healthcare system is relevant in any country).

 

[sullydnl]

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[Revan]

The lockdown in China is far more extreme, you can't even access different floors other than your own in China. It's still possible to congregate in Italy just not in a bar or in another city unless the police let you travel.

That's what I meant by Italy doing a stellar job. They essentially need to do a Wuhan in order to have any chance on this ending with just a few dozens of thousands of dead people.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The containment should have started in January, and now people would have criticized the governments for overreacting, but countless lives would have been saved.

Absolutely.

But the UK model is showing that it's too late to contain now. Now the UK wants to do everything to instead ensure the NHS can help as many as possible over the coming months.

 

[Revan]

India is doing a terrible job right now. Think we're going to be like Wuhan x10.

Countries who are gonna be Wuhan x10 are the lucky and the smart ones. Wuhan x1000 is a real possibility for many.